Subject: SMML VOL 935 Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 01:15:54 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: Book & Codpieces 2: Re: REUBEN JAMES & HORNET 3: S-Boats 4: Re: London Treaty 5: Re: REUBEN JAMES 6: Re: Whatcha buildn 7: Re: Whatcha buildin'? 8: Re: Gel 9: Spanish Civil War Neutrality Markings 10: Judges Handbook on the web soon 11: Rodney in Mountbatten Pink? 12: Noah's Ark 13: What Cha building 14: Re: Testors USS America 15: Re: Reuben James camouflage 16: Testors USS America CV-66 17: What I'm building 18: Thanks!!! 19: PFs 20: Whatcha buildin'? 21: June 6 ... 22: Re: Aaarrrrggggghhhhh!!! 23: currently building 24: Lighthouse book 25: USS America 26: Re: RUEBEN JAMES in 1941 vcamouflage 27: Re: 1/32 scale 28: Thanks To Our Vets! 29: some questions on painting ship models -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- SMMLcon Infomation & posts 1: Re: SMMLcons 2: SMMLicon in Corpus Christi -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Denis L Johnson Subject: Re: Book & Codpieces If you are interested in how a modern warship is built you might want to get ahold of "The Yard" by Michael S. Sanders (Harper/Collins 1999). It describes the building of a DDG at Bath Iron Works in great detail, and includes many pictures of the Works. some of the individuals involved, and (most important) some of the vast sub-assemblies under construction. Ignore his explanation of ship stability - it's incomprehensible unless you already understand it! A very good read. Re:codpieces - I am not familiar with term. Does it refer to a fishy version of Burger Bits? Are they better tham Cheesy Poofs? Hi gang, Ahhh, now I bet most of you are smirking & wondering how the hell I'm gonna explain this ;-) Letmesee, lets just say, they were a cosmetic clothing enhancemant to show that "size does matter" ;->. They were very popular in the middle ages, esp on some forms of armour. As for the culinary delights of them, well lets just say we don't want to go there ;-)) Shane NB (now building): still the %$#@#$%%^&**( Onslow NU (next up): 1/700 Tamiya Hoods & 1/700 OzMods Vampire -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "John Snyder" Subject: Re: REUBEN JAMES & HORNET REUBEN JAMES was wearing Measure 2 at the time of her loss. I believe there is a photo of her in that scheme in "Flush Decks and Four Pipes", but haven't time to look it up right now. HORNET's had replaced the Sea Blue 5-S on the hull with Navy Blue 5-N. It's easy to see the difference in contrast between the 5-N and 5-O on HORNET's hull, as compared to the much less contrast between the 5-S and 5-O on YORKTOWN's Measure 12. YORKTOWN was one of the few ships still carrying 5-S that late. John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys http://www.shipcamouflage.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: PT191@aol.com Subject: S-Boats Hello Boyzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz, Say, listen, a question. Other than the AIRFIX S-10 kit, ... is there a PLASTIC 1:72nd scale kit of a late-war - armoured bridged S-boat? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "J. London" Subject: Re: London Treaty My thanks to all those who responded to my query. I am following up on the leads. Michael London -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: CBNJBB62@aol.com Subject: Re: REUBEN JAMES Hi John Concerning the camo job that the the USS Rueben James was wearing. The ship was wearing a 3 tone camouflage scheme. There is a photo of the James on page 37 of John Alden book Flush Deck and Four Pipes NIP 1989, I'm not sure of the colors because it is B&W and dated 8/21/41. I hope this is of help. Craig Bennett -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Whatcha buildn I'm currently working on the Iron Shipwright Baltimore class cruiser kit. So far, not a bad kit at all. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ "Yeah I want Cheesy Poofs" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: Matthew Prager Subject: Re: Whatcha buildin'? Marc Flake wrote: >> I'm about to start on the Seals Models MIKASA. What's everybody else doing On Topic? << I'm in the finishing stages of a scratch built USS BARBEL (SS-580) in 1/700. I have to finish the paint, build a prop, and mount it on a base. The model is for a friend of mine who served aboard her. Next up will probably be a conversion of the Viking Models 1/72 ASPB to a MSR (Patrol Minesweeper) used by the U.S in Vietnam. Matt Prager -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "katzcom" Subject: Re: Gel Acrilic gel is obviously a water based medium, what's it called, does anyone know if avaible over here in the UK? how much does it cost? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "Leslie Brown" Subject: Spanish Civil War Neutrality Markings According to a letter in Warship International No.3 1990 the various neutrality markings were as follows (reading from fore to aft, applicable to both fore and aft turrets when trained fore-and-aft): France: Blue-White-Red Great Britain: Red-White-Blue Germany: Black-White-Red Regards Les Brown -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Burl Burlingame / Pacific Monograph Subject: Judges Handbook on the web soon aloha all Good to hear that the judges's handbook is going online. I've been involved in many aspects of judging over the years, and I must say that the evolved IPMS judging standards are among the highest I've seen in any field. IPMS judges really aren't all that capricious! There is a vigorous dialectic on every model considered, with judges deliberately challenging each other to make sure models are judged according to craftmanship, accuracy and artistic standards. Burl Pacific Monograph, 1124 Kahili Street, Kailua HI 96734 808-263-6087 buzz@aloha.net A historical interpretation company. Visit our web site at http://www.PacificHistory.com/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: Dimi Apostolopoulos Subject: Rodney in Mountbatten Pink? SMML Folks, Raven & Roberts' book on British Battleships of WWII notes that it is believed that Rodney was painted in an overall Mountbatten Pink in late 1940. I have seen a fair number of pictures of her from that time but, obviously, I cannot tell whether she is painted in Mountbatten Pink or a medium grey. Does anybody have any additional information on this matter? Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Dimi -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "Reynaga, Tim@EDD" Subject: Noah's Ark Ned, I'm intrigued to see that someone else is building an Ark. I built one several years ago in 1/700 scale, and it was loads of fun. When I built my model it was in connection with a Mesopotamian Literature class I was taking in college. My design was pretty conservative as it was closely derived from the ancient documents with a minimum of artistic license on my part, so it came out looking a lot like a floating warehouse. Being what it is, though, you could do pretty much whatever you want! In response to your search for sources, I based mine primarily upon the few ancient sources available: Sumerian Deluge Myth Epic of Gilgamesh (Akkadian version) Atra Hasis Epic (Babylonian version) Hebrew Genesis These were found in Ancient Near Eastern Texts Edited by Dr. J.B Pritchard, Atra Hasis: The Babylonian Story of the Flood by W.G. Lambert and A.A. Millard, The Gilgamesh Epic and Old Testament Parallels by A. Leo Oppenheim, and the King James translation of the Hebrew Genesis. The descriptions are all pretty basic, providing little detail. All sources (except the fragmentary Sumerian Deluge Myth) agree that the Ark had multiple decks, a roof, pitch or bitumen sealing, and a single door. Gilgamesh does mention "tackle" (Tablet III, line 32) and a "hawser" (Tablet III, line 55) as well as "sliding ways made of poles" for launching (Tablet III, line 78). Also, the presence of "Puzzur-Amurri, the boatman" (Tablet XI, line 94) to whom Noah turned over the vessel suggests that it might have been under control (a rudder? oars? sails?) However, since none of these sources mentioned anything like deckhouses, deck fittings, masts, or provided much detail generally, I made my model extremely plain. Christian tradition has it that Noah was from the Mesopotamian city of Shurrupak on the Euphrates, in what is today Iraq. Although Mesopotamians did build river boats, they were not a sea power and I don't think they would have thought of the Ark as a ship in the modern sense, but rather as a barge. They wrote of the Ark (in Gilgamesh) as an Ekallu, meaning "Great House" or "Palace". The Hebrew word for the vessel, teba, is used only one other place in the Bible, to refer to the lidded container in which the infant Moses was set adrift on the Nile. The word is related to the Egyptian db'at, meaning box, chest, or even coffin-terms which to me suggest a barge type design...but who knows? I did an article some years back on my Ark for Model Ship Builder. If you're interested, contact me off list and I can copy it for you. Good luck with your Ark! Tim -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "Ian MacCorquodale" Subject: What Cha building Hi Gang, I just finished Zhengdefu Jinan Helicopter Destroyer, which I'm proud to say I got for $12.99 Canadian at Nautilus Hobbies in Halifax. How they can sell such a phenominal kit for that price is beyond me. I am presently working on Smit Rotterdam, my first non mil ship kit,Heller makes a nice kit, How bout an upgrade to the De Gaulle, to reflect the recent upgrades? In the Future....waiting most impatiently for Commander Series to get the Photoetch for the Canadian Patrol Frigate in 1/350 Resin. Seriously those folks are going to hit Block sender on my email addie! I plan to do the kit up as HMCS Halifax, which is my hometown ship. I see a lot of her, 6 sisters based here as well. It will be interesting to see what you all are working on....good thread! Cheers, Ian Mac's Naval Photography http://www.geocities.com/macrachael/ Mac's Models http://www.geocities.com/macmodels/ Scottish Clan Plaques http://clanconnections.bizland.com/main.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: DortaB@aol.com Subject: Re: Testors USS America I've done the kit, sort of. (They're never quite finished, are they!!) Biggest problem is the island/stack setup; the stack should be fractionally higher than the aft 011 level structure roof. However, the stack is about scale 20' too tall. Cut it back!!! There are some other problems. Radars are in dire need of replacement, as is the SPS-48E mast itself. Get some of Skywave's detail set, 'cause all of the ships weapons need replacing. If you are going to try to make her full hull, my hats off, given the way the 2 halves come together. The decals are for her early/mid 80's look, before the advent of lower visibility criteria. The "66" on the bow is full, not the later outline. This is just the start!! HTH George Cost CV-66, '91-94 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: WRPRESSINC@aol.com Subject: Re: Reuben James camouflage Try Alden's book. It has a photo of the ship taken in the latter half of 1941. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: Mike Connelley Subject: Testors USS America CV-66 Howdy: Assuming the Testor's America is the Italeri one, then it ought to be pretty accurate. There's a review on the Warship page. I'm currently building the Constellation (CV-64, her older sister) and the kit is just the America with a few 64's on the decal sheet! Bummer man. Anyway, assuming the America is what you want, then it ought to be accurate. Cheers Mike Connelley -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: Mike Connelley Subject: What I'm building Howdy: 1) Tamiya 1/350 USS Missouri a la 1944 dazzle scheme, will be finished by August. With Gold Medal Models PE, Tom's PE and 40mm quads, plus my own things. 2) Italeri 1/720 USS Constellation a la Vietnam. Will be finished by Thursday. With Gold Medal Models PE and a lot of plastic surgery to convert her TO the Constellation from the America. Cheers Mike Connelley -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: Ned Barnett Subject: Thanks!!! Thanks, first, to Mike Leonard, who went above and beyond in sending me information on the Emden cruiser - what a gold-mine of information. And to Carolyn for handling my requests so expeditiously. And to Loren and Rusty and others who have all stepped forward with research help, product information and great articles on building models better than I'll ever hope to be able to do And thanks to all who have been answering my questions; this is far and away the best list I'm on (and that's saying a lot); I look forward to each day's post, and read it cover to cover ... All the best ... Ned -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: "John Sheridan" Subject: PFs >> I would like to third the request for more PF info, though in my case I'm interested in paint schemes. PF-69 was named after my home town, Davenport (Iowa). I'm willing to do the kit (once I get one!) pretty much as is but I have no idea how to paint it. Any ideas? Thanks! << I am working on the camo patterns for the PFs, PCs, SCs, and PGs right now. Unfortunately, I have nothing on Davenport. John Sheridan www.shipcamouflage.com I am not Unit# 631 of the Lumber Cartel (tinlc) If there were a Lumber Cartel, the last place on earth I would look for it would be: http://come.to/the.lumber.cartel -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: "John Sheridan" Subject: Whatcha buildin'? >> I'm about to start on the Seals Models MIKASA. What's everybody else doing On Topic? << Right now, I'm building the Classic Warships 1/530th USS Alaska kit as the USS Guam in her MS32/7c scheme. John Sheridan www.shipcamouflage.com I am not Unit# 631 of the Lumber Cartel (tinlc) If there were a Lumber Cartel, the last place on earth I would look for it would be: http://come.to/the.lumber.cartel -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: Ned Barnett Subject: June 6 ... Today is the 6th of June - at least here in the States. Fifty-six years ago, thousands gave their lives in the cause of the freedom we all share and enjoy. Today, the D-Day Museum opened, in New Orleans - the home of the designer of the Higgins Boats that made D-Day possible. http://www.ddaymuseum.org/ Honor them with your memory ... Ned -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: Charlie Jarvis Subject: Re: Aaarrrrggggghhhhh!!! >> Oh no! I thought that this list was at least one place I could go to get away from discussions about German WWII "speculative" designs and 109 thingees! And now they've cropped up here!! Help!!! OK, as a balance, anyone have any good info on kits of Israeli Navy available out there? << I understand that there's going to be an Israeli PT/missle boat based on the Higgins designed PT-Me109 with the 37mm cannon turret colors from the SOS Grosser Bratwurst (from Wisconsin, of course), a post latter-day semiwaterline-dreadnut. Or something like that, so I heard... Charlie -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: rweilach@mindspring.com Subject: currently building Hello everyone, I am currently building: 1. USS Louisville 1/700 by Corsair Armada Productions. Currently painting the hull camoflage. 2. Gearing Class Destroyer 1/700 by Skywave. Rob Smyrna, GA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24) From: Darren Scannell Subject: Lighthouse book There was some interest in lighthouses a while back, so I thought I'd post this. Was in Chapters tonight and I saw "The Lighthouse Book" by Samual Crompton. ISBN: 1-55267-998-5 for $12.99 CDN. It had a fair amount of photos and descriptions of various lighthouses. It would be a good reference for someone looking for a specific lighthouse. Regards, Darren Scannell -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 25) From: "Jim Johnson" Subject: USS America Hi Ralph The Testors/Italeari kit of the America is a good kit. They did it right. It really is the America, not a Kitty Hawk or JFK with 66 decals. The configuration is different from when I was on it (late 60's) so the radar, defensive weapons, etc. are different, but the hull, deck, island,sponsons etc. are all correct. I have 5 of the kits and my grand plan for my perfect model of my career is to convert the Tamiya 1/350 Enterprise to the America. The Gold Metal Models 1/720 supercarrier etched brass sheet is a must if you are serious about this, or any other Italerai 1/720 carrier. One thing that bothers me about the kit is the stack. They try to show a screen over the top of the uptakes in the kit. I can state without a doubt that there was no screen over the top of the uptakes. Once when we were cold iron and twice while we were steaming, I had to work on the ship's whisle. There was about one and a half feet between the whisle and the uptakes. Very warm up there. Not to mention that I had to use the whisle as a shield so the surface search radar 30 feet ahead of me didn't cook me like a microwave oven. Ah, the memories! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 26) From: Jeffon10@cs.com Subject: Re: RUEBEN JAMES in 1941 vcamouflage I this ship appears to have been in Measure 2. There is a photo in "Flush Decks and Four Pipes" Also, there is a drawing in the little known publication "United States Navy Warship Camouflage, 1939-1945." The hull number is in black and below the bridge as per WW I style. As opposed to some ships in WW II Measure 12, the triband colors on the hull were not parallel to the horizon buT angular. Jeff Fenton -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 27) From: "James owen" Subject: Re: 1/32 scale Thanks for all of you who replied to my query about 1/32 and 1/35 scale small craft, this has proved extremely helpful and provided much food for thought. Thanks again, Jim Owen. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 28) From: John_Impenna@hyperion.com Subject: Thanks To Our Vets! HI All, I think this is a little late for the 6th, but being the anniversary of D-Day, I'd like to say Thanks!! to all of our Vets for what they did on the Normandy Beaches 56 years ago, as well as the North Atlantic, South Pacific, Southeast Asia, Central Europe and everywhere they fought and still maintain Peace, so that we can do what we are able to do today. I don't think that this can ever be said enough to people who have lived as well as the many who have died, in mankinds worst nightmare; War. Take a moment as you are sitting down to work on one of your models and ask yourself would I have the freedom to be able to do this if our Vets hadn't done what they did. John -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 29) From: "Martin Gertenbach" Subject: some questions on painting ship models Hello, I'm relativly new and unfamiliar with ship modeling and have some, perhaps simple or long ago answered question. First I'm looking for colour references for modern US and Royal Navy warships, best would be Humbrol Colour numbers. My second question is also on painting. What is the best way, if there is one, to piant a 1/700 scale ship. should it be brush or spray painted, how can I mask parts of the ship when spray painting, what do I do with small or photo etched parts. Should they be glued after the ship was painted or before? thanks for answers, Martin Gertenbach Hi Martin, Check out the SMML website, Mike Dunn (Webmaster) has started a list for RN colours from the different manufacturers. As for spray Vs hand painting - the best bet here is to find your own way. I still handpaint all my stuff, including PE (but then I also handpainted 1/285 armour as well ;-) ). But others will swear by airbrushing. As for attaching PE before or after painting, it is better to attch, then paint as it will have a firmer grip. I find it really depends on the part, as it can be a real pain in the arse to paint certain PE "thingees" after they been attached. Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- SMMLcon Infomation & posts -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "John Snyder" Subject: Re: SMMLcons OK, one more time: All of the suggestions for places to hold major or minor SMMLcons are good. HOWEVER, as I noted before, if you really want to have one happen in any of those places you need to either lead the charge to set it up, or find someone who will. John Frohock and crew made Quincy happen, and all the attendees are grateful to them. Duane Fowler and others (myself included) will be meeting soon to see if we can make something similar happen in the San Francisco area. Caroline Carter has pretty much made it clear that there will be a major SMML gathering in connection with the Festival of the Seas in the UK in 2001; I will be there for that! But it takes more than mere site suggestions: it takes someone(s) to make it happen. As has been said before, this is a LARGE and diverse international group. No single SMMLcon is going to work for everyone. Don't worry about possible conflicts with others if you want to set one up. Just do it! 'Nuff said... John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys http://www.shipcamouflage.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "O'Connor" Subject: SMMLicon in Corpus Christi For what it's worth, I've been to Corpus twice on business (testifying in court) and found the city to be delightful- Lots of great restaurants- especially Tex-Mex and Seafood, and of course, the carrier. A really nice town with lots of atmosphere. As for Peter Mispelcamps(?) post a few days ago ref. Caroline doing a 1/700 scale airwing for the Graf Zepp-count me in. I'd be up for buying a bag or two. I enjoy doing a "what if "every now and then - how about the GZ escorted by a "K"class cruiser and a few "Z"class ships, with maybe a liberated N or O class DD to boot! Bob O'Connor, getting ready for a week at the beach in sunny central Florida. If any of you locals smell smoke next week, it's not the wildfires, its the smell of burning blender motors as I kill several cases of rum!!!! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for having SMML at your home, why not stop by our home at: http://www.smml.org.uk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume