Subject: SMML VOL 943 Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 22:11:23 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: Royal Oak 2: Re: Looking for model/plans for HMS Roberts 3: Re: IPMS(USA) Nats 4: Royal Oak 5: Butternut 6: German Boot Topping & Anti Fouling paints 7: Re: Rusty White's query as to San Jose, Matthews and Butternut 8: Loose Cannon/SMML fix 9: Butternut, Mathews, San Jose 10: Re: Smit Rotterdam 11: Royal Oak 12: Re: Tragic damage 13: Re: San Jose, Matthew, Butternut 14: Bob Santos models on Warship 15: Re: Queen Mary in 1/600 16: Re: Resin and plastic tradoffs 17: HMS Roberts 18: Re: Derek Brown 19: California at PH 20: Mikasa Colors 21: Re: HOW TO MAKE DECALS? 22: Re: Dallas IPMS/USA Nationals 23: Re: HOW TO MAKE DECALS? 24: Re: Royal Oak 25: Re: German boot topping 26: Re: APMA Jeep Site Link 27: Re: USS San Jose, Matthews, Butternut 28: Re: IPMS(USA) Nats 29: Space shuttles 30: Whatcha buildin'? 31: USS Houston, cleveland class, light cruiser, 1/350 scale model 32: Re: IPMS/USA Dallas 33: Graf Zepplelin Air Wing 34: Re: decals 35: Re: Subchaser 36: Re: Royal Oak 37: Re: USS San Jose, Matthews, Butternut 38: HOW TO MAKE DECALS 39: Re: USS San Jose, Matthews, Butternut 40: Friedman Books 41: USS Blue Ridge 42: Re: HOSHO Airwing - Thanks! 43: Re: Committees 44: Re: John C. Butler Class 45: Re: USS San Jose, Matthews, Butternut 46: IPMS Nationals 47: Re: Mystery ships 48: Royal Oak 49: USS San Jose, Matthews, Butternut 50: Re: Paper Models -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- SMMLcon Infomation & posts 1: Re: SMMLcon 2005 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: FOR SALE "WARSHIP" VOLUME II & III 2: Update from Classic Warships -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Christopher Crofoot Subject: Re: Royal Oak >> The picture of the Royal Oak shows what appear to be torpedo blisters along the hull. Despite these the Royal Oak sank in 13 minutes apparently after being struck by as few as 3 torpedoes. Why did this ship, (and the battleship HMS BARHAM, also sunk by U boat) sink so quickly? << I believe that the torpedoes detonated under Oak's keel (under the blisters) the blister only helps from a side strike not a torp. going off underneath the keel. Chris -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: ALROSS2@aol.com Subject: Re: Looking for model/plans for HMS Roberts << I ran across her in Conway's and it looked like a pretty interesting ship. I haven't been able to find much about her in the usual places (WEM, Warship, Floating Drydock). If anyone could point me in the right direction, I would appreciate it. >> Get Ian Buxton's book Big Gun Monitors. It has extensive plans and lots of photos for ABERCROMBIE. Al Ross -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: KelDQ@aol.com Subject: Re: IPMS(USA) Nats >> I'll be there. Derek Brown << Oh Great! The rest of us may as well stay home! Just kidding, Derek, I can't wait to see your work in person! You've been an inspiration to me for many years. Kelly Quirk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "chenyangzhang" Subject: Royal Oak Hi Norman Several factors contributed to her sinking. She was probably struck by 4 not 3 torpedoes though. Firstly her torpedo blisters were not able to take the explosive force of the torpedoes. They had been designed to resist smaller warheads. She was not closed up for action stations, being in harbour her watertight integrity was low and many hatches and doors were open. She was also fitted with plywood contraptions - light excluding ventilators in place of her scuttles. That meant that a lot of ports were open and when she heeled over water entered through these. When the torpedoes hit they ignited a cordite magazine the resulting fire of which caused heavy casualties. It also removed any chance of dealing with the damage. Finally she was hit on the same side by all torpedoes which would automatically increase the list. Yamato and Musashi had heavier armour, they were closed up and their damage control was functioning and their design flaws lay elsewhere. A better comparision would be the Shinano which went down after being hit by 5 torpedoes on the same side in a similar short period of time. Chris Langtree -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "chenyangzhang" Subject: Butternut Hi Rusty As far as I know Butternut was a Net Laying Vessel (AN9). Displacement 560 tons, 146 ft length (wl) 1631/4 ft (oa) x 301/2 ft x 113/4 ft. She was powered by a 1 shaft diesel-electric engine giving 800 shp for 13 knots. Armed with a 3 gun and a complement of 48. She was launched 10 May 1941. I doubt you'll be able to find any models of her or her sisters. Chris Langtree -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: GrafSpee34@aol.com Subject: German Boot Topping & Anti Fouling paints According to Gunther Huff, a recognized authority on the Kaiserliche Marine, the boot topping of WWI ships was dark grey as a rule (to which there are always exceptions). Incidentally, the dark grey boot topping was an anti-fouling paint. This same grey paint was used to cover the entire undersides of U-boats in the First and Second World Wars. Contrary to what is often shown in postwar color illustrations, U-Boats had no boot topping. The upper color met the lower color without a dividing band. Usually U-Boat undersides were painted dark grey, however, they were ocassionaly painted with reddish brown anti-fouling. The same reddish brown color was used on surface vessels. Boats carried aboard KM surface vessels were not painted with anti-fouling paint as they were not left in the water long enough to foul. They did tend to become dirty in oily harbor waters, so the undersides of the powered boats were painted black or dark grey (not red!) in order to keep them looking tidy. The above information is based on period technical documents and color photos. Dave -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: AandMBlevins@gateway.net Subject: Re: Rusty White's query as to San Jose, Matthews and Butternut Hi Rusty, Two out of three isn't bad. USS Mathews, (note only one t) AKA -96, an attack cargo ship. USS Butternut, AN-9, a net laying ship. No luck on San Jose, could it possibly be San Juan? If so it is a light cruiser, CL-54. I got this info from Fahey,s Ships and Aircraft of the US Fleet. I'm afraid I can't help with availability of models. Al Blevins -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "hugh1lottie2" Subject: Loose Cannon/SMML fix To Jim et all, Loose Cannon will be in Dallas also so don't spend too much money on aircraft. I also saw some other vendors on the list, I can't imagine that they would attend and not bring any goodies to sell. My main concern is that someone bring a laptop PC and a printer. I don't know about the rest of you but I need my daily fix of SMML as much or more than my caffeine. I will be in attendance also and I know of some others but they have to submit their own names. Just remember to duck when you see a Cyclops in a red Porsche with curb feelers. Hugh Letterly -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "wblad" Subject: Butternut, Mathews, San Jose These are vessels are from three different classes and types. Butternut, (AN-9), was a WWII era net layer that served from 1941 until 1971. Mathews, (AKA-96), was an attack transport from 1944 until 1969. San Jose, (AFS-7), a combat stores ship, was completed in 1969, the year Mathews was stricken. HTH. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "Reynaga, Tim@EDD" Subject: Re: Smit Rotterdam >> In addition to the colors, can anybody identify a webpage where there might be some color photos of the Smit Rotterdam? Thanks in advance. << Check out: http://www.regio-online.ch/vereine/msk_st_peter/galerie2.htm I don't know who hosts the site, but it has a very nice gallery of color photos of Smit Rotterdam by a Mr. Hauke Behn. At: http://www.blueheronco.com/smitrotterdam1.htm there are a series of three pics of Joe Hooey's very nice Billing Boats model of the Smit R which show the colors very well. Tim -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "murph" Subject: Royal Oak AT the risk of starting a major controversy I'll pull the pin and throw in the grenade As a youngster I was fortunate enough to meet a survivor from the Royal Oak, who maintained to his dying day that the Royal Oak was not torpedoed. He was of the opinion that it was an internal explosion, either unstable cordite or sabotage, indeed there is doubt that Prien was ever in Scapa I believe there are various discrepencies in U47 log, with regards to ships "seen" by the Uboat in the Flow, which had been there the previous day when a german recce plane over flew the Flow but had sailed on the day of the sinking, not to mention the tidal currents which were a knot or two greater than the top speed of the Uboat, which they had to go against to get into the flow. An interesting read if you can get your hands on it is Nightmare at Scapa Flow : the truth about the sinking of H.M.S. Royal Oak by H.J.Weaver I think it is out of print now. Murph -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Tragic damage >> Apparently the accident happened when the case was being removed for photographic purposes, and the top slipped from the hands of the person lifting it. << Absolutely terrible news! That is a magnificent model. I don't know how I would handle the destruction of something that took me so long to create. This is one of the major reason I want the "case rule" changed to allow covered models in IPMS competition. I don't want to open that can of worms again. I know it was damaged due to photographers wishing to photograph it, but it was damaged nonetheless while the heavy case was being removed. It could have as easily happened while removing it for judging. It will be an uphill road to hoe, but I'll present the suggestion to the Contest Committee at the Nats. in Dallas. go to the Warship site and check that model out. Bob has my sympathies. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ "Yeah I want Cheesy Poofs" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Dave Judy Subject: Re: San Jose, Matthew, Butternut Rusty, The Butternut AN-9 is an Aloe class net layer The Matthew AKA-96 is an Andromeda class attack Transport The San Jose.......I drew a blank on.... The reference I used is United States Naval Vessels. 1 Sept. 1945 published by Schiffer Publishing, Atglen PA. Dave Judy -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Bob Santos models on Warship Bob's too modest to say anything so I will. Check out the Warship site and take a peek at some of Bob Santo's models. Many you have already seen in FSM. His water cross section dioramas are some of the best I've seen. Marvelous technique. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ "Yeah I want Cheesy Poofs" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: Eric Hougland Subject: Re: Queen Mary in 1/600 >> Is there such a thing as the AIRFIX QUEEN MARY in 600 scale??????????? i've made the Revell 570 scale and am working on the Mauritania from Airfix...i would love it if there were another Queen Mary out there. << >> No, the 1/570 is commonly refered to as being 1/600 because it's so close to it ;-). Shane << Both Revell and ModelCraft offer a 1/570 Queen Mary. I can't really tell how similar they are as I've only built the ModelCraft kit, but the propeller bosses/screws appear to be inaccurate on both. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Resin and plastic tradoffs >> Tom, just remember, a camel is a horse that was designed by a committee. << And an Elephant is mouse built under government contract. Good thing the government doesn't develop models. Or maybe they do under the business front name of Skywave. That would explain the price of their 1/700 kits. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ "Yeah I want Cheesy Poofs" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: "Leslie Brown" Subject: HMS Roberts Probably the best source of data is 'Big Gun Monitors' by Ian Buxton which has drawings of Abercrombie as well as some good photographs. More photographs are available in 'British Monitors' (ISO Pictorial Series 5) and 'Monitors of the Royal Navy' both by Paul Kemp. The latter is actually a reissue of the former. Finally Model Shipwright Nos 52 and 105 contain articles on the construction of models of these vessels. Regards Les Brown -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Derek Brown >> I'll be there. Derek Brown << You're not bring that Russian gun boat are you? If you are, I'm leaving my models at home. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ "Yeah I want Cheesy Poofs" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: Derek Wakefield Subject: California at PH Did the California have a awing rigged over her quarterdeck/stern at PH? I know one was rigged over the bow, but I can't find any clear shots of the stern. I know she had two OS2Us atop her turret cat (I've got two pics showing this), but was there one on the quarterdeck cat? While I'm at it, I might as well add... 1) Where can I find high-quality 1:700 OS2Us? 2) How can I simulate awings in that scale (that would also let me model the ship with turret #1's barrels sticking up though the torn canvas)? 3) Is there any source for 1:700 USN yard craft c.1941 (tugs in particular). 4) Any suggestions for building quays, simulating shoreline, and making smoke & burning oil (LOTS of it). Go Navy! _|_o_|_ Derek "Tiger" (/\)akefield /---(.](o)[.)---\ iscandar@chatter.com o oo O oo o http://www.iscandar-66.org -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: "Mike Leonard" Subject: Mikasa Colors Am building the Seals Models IJN battleship MIKASA and have a question on the layout and color scheme as would have been seen during the Battle of Tsushima. The box art depicts the ship in an overall dark gray. Since all of the printing on the box and instructions is in Japanese, there's no way for me to sort out what's what. Which bridge parts are correct for 1904? Fighting tops or no? An undated drydock photo of the ship in "The Illustrated History of the Russo-Japanese War" by J. N. Westwood (Henry Regnery Co. 1973) show MIKASA wearing what appear to be three white (?) bands on each stack, and what looks to be light gray superstructure, masts with fighting tops, and turrets above the main deck level. It was suggested to me that this was the standard pre-war scheme that was superseded by overall dark gray during hostilities. Any information is welcome. Were the stack stripes some sort of (temporary) recognition sign for Togo's flagship? Thanks in advance, Mike Alexandria, VA USA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: Al Superczynski Subject: Re: HOW TO MAKE DECALS? On Thu, 15 Jun 2000 02:50:36 +1000, Henry wrote: >> Can someone help? I tried to create a decal using the clear decal sheet (from WEM) and a colour inkjet printer but the ink just sat on top and never adhered to the decal sheet. It smeared even after leaving alone for 24 hrs. I then tried spraying a clear coat to bind it somehow and again let dry for 24 hrs, now it didn't smear to touch but once in the water everything just dissolved. Any ideas on how to do better? << There are some decal papers on the market now that are reputed to be suitable for use with inkjets but I haven't had any experience with any of them so can't speak to the validity of those claims. That said, the general problem here is that decal paper isn't porous enough to absorb the inks. The only really suitable methods are laser printing, laser photocopying, or thermal wax printing (i.e. Alps) - the latter is the best of the three since it's the only one that will print white and/or metallics. See http://members.tripod.com/~aravm98/alpsdecal.htm for more info re using an Alps printer to make decals. HTH, Al http://www.up-link.net/~modeleral -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: Al Superczynski Subject: Re: Dallas IPMS/USA Nationals I'll be there for the whole thing and will host the RMS gathering tentatively set for Thursday evening. Al http://www.up-link.net/~modeleral -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: SantMin@aol.com Subject: Re: HOW TO MAKE DECALS? >> Can someone help? I tried to create a decal using the clear decal sheet (from WEM) and a colour inkjet printer but the ink just sat on top and never adhered to the decal sheet. It smeared even after leaving alone for 24 hrs. I then tried spraying a clear coat to bind it somehow and again let dry for 24 hrs, now it didn't smear to touch but once in the water everything just dissolved. << Ink-jet printers require paper that will absorb the ink so iot will dry, decal paper does not bo this. You need either the special decal paper made for ink-jet printers (I haven't tried that yet) or an ALPS printer (which I have been making my own decals on for about 3 years). Bob Santos -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24) From: "katzcom" Subject: Re: Royal Oak Well you must remember that the R class were designed during the first world war, where as the Yam**** was designed in the late 30s, also I would think that with Royal Oak being moored she may of been in shallowish water, I know that you can dive on her. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 25) From: "J. London" Subject: Re: German boot topping According to Gröner, "Die deutschen Kriegsschiffe 1815-1945" the boot topping was dark gray. Michael London -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 26) From: Mike Settle Subject: Re: APMA Jeep Site Link >> BTW, check out the APMA site links pages for a nice jeep site at: http://www.tac.com.au/~sljenkins/apma.htm - NOW, that's self promotion ;-)) << I tried the link to Steve Malikoff's WWII Jeep page, but unfortunately, the site was down. I'll try later. I am eagerly awaiting Italeri's release later this year of a 1/24 scale WWII Jeep model. Now, to bring this somewhat back to a ship related topic, I'll tell a story. This is not a fairy tale, it is a sea story, so I must precede it with "This ain't no xxxx!" My father was on the USS Sabine, AO-25, from 1945-46. Evidently, from some of Dad's stories, the Captain was a rowdy and somewhat unpredictable character. Shortly after the war, according to one tale Dad told, they were in Singapore Harbor when the CO sent a message to the ship from shore to bring the largest boat to the dock immediately. Upon arrival at the dock, it was discovered that the CO had stolen a Jeep from the Army. This was loaded on the boat and taken to the ship where it was painted Navy Gray. Dad was often the CO's "chauffeur" on later Liberty Calls. Mike Settle I am not agent #1908 of the non-existent Lumber Cartel (tinlc)tm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 27) From: CBNJBB62@aol.com Subject: Re: USS San Jose, Matthews, Butternut Hi Guys The 3 ships you mentioned the USS San Jose, Mathews,andButternut are each individual ships and purposes. The USS San Jose AFS-7 is a Mars class Combat stores ship or freighter. The USS Mathews AKA-96 is Andromeda class transport. It's service life was from 1944-6 1951-68 and scrapped in 1970. The USS Butternut AN-6 is Net laying vessel used for opening and closing anti submarine nets at harbor entrances. I don't know if the there is any models of these ships available. Craig -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 28) From: CBNJBB62@aol.com Subject: Re: IPMS(USA) Nats Hi Guys Good luck at the Nationals. I enjoyed meeting you all at Orlando. Have fun. Craig Bennett -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 29) From: CBNJBB62@aol.com Subject: Space shuttles Now this is loosely related to the topic of ships but here goes. Back in the early 90's NASA had the Shuttle Endeavor join it's fleet giving them 4. Columbia, Discovery, Atlantis and Endeavor. Now at the same time it was announced that other countries had shuttles like Japan, Russia and the European Union. It was predicted by the early 2000s they would be operational. Any one anything about this? Craig -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 30) From: "Robert Spooner" Subject: Whatcha buildin'? Decided to scratch build a trio of waterline models of the battleship Warspite in her 3 main configurations, 1918, 1932,& 1944 at a scale of 1:384 or 1/32 inch to the foot to you lot who have gone metric, starting now with the 1918 version. The decision being made over 1:350 because she was designed and built in feet and inches. Many models (including N Ough) made in these imperial scales and its the arrival of Japanese kits which has swung the market over to 350/700 scales. I believe that the scale should follow that of the prototype? As I also wanted to build 3 ships at each period I made a hull master in lime although I would now use the new 'chemi-wood' material and clad the decks in 0.5mm scribed styrene sheet. Plating detail was added after priming by taping hull with two layers of cellotape and spraying again with primer. The slight build-up of paint gives a nice subtle panel line. A silicone rubber mould was taken and the hulls cast using fastcast resin from Sika. Superstructure was generally made in acrylic blocks which is great material for this and readily shaped with a small disc sander and circular saw. Turret master was made also in acrylic with blast bags for barrels shaped with milliputt. The barrels being individually turned on the lathe and fitted with spigots to fit the cast turrets with blast bags. Etchings have been drawn on computer using Corel Draw 7 and feature widely across the model - bases and side wheels to searchlights, funnel grills, searchlight platform, oars, mesh to carley raft bases, railings, awning staunchions (often missed by the etchers!), seats to boats, w/t doors, pulleys and cable to derrick, bridge decks, ladders and steps,and some other bits I can't remember. Masts and starfish items made in brass and filed to shape - easier than you might think with less chance of breaking. Funnels are out of shim brass heated to soften and bent around a lime timber pattern. The flared top and base was achieved by soldering copper wire around rim and filing to shape. I've made 6 and its easier than it sounds. The boats were made using a tomber plug and vacforming the hulls and then fitting the various etched bits - seats, gratings, rudders, oars to the hull. Thats as far as its got now as I'm experimenting on deck paint finish but plan to use cellulose with brushed stains or emulsions to highlight. Hull and superstructure will also be sprayed in light grey cellulose to a colour I'm happy with - can't get worked up over precise colour matches etc for the various reasons expounded in this forum by others. Plan to use waterslide transfers (not decals!) or rub downs for the portholes. By the way I use PVA for glueing p/e in place, (super glue is just too unforgiving and quick!) as I make my staunchions with pins for drilling into the hull. In the past I've used crushed up clear flower wrapping acetate film spread with plaster and laid over base material. When dry the crinkly film can be lifted off giving a pleasing creased and random sea effect. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 31) From: "bm8009" Subject: USS Houston, cleveland class, light cruiser, 1/350 scale model Dear Sirs, I am inquiring if anyone has available for sale any kit that I can build that meets the "subject" stated above. If there are any specific email address and or street addresses that I may use for my search. The site itself is a fine site but I didn't find any mention of the USS Houston. My father served on same and I would like to be able to feel a closeness to his past. Thank you very much for any help you may offer Johnny Johnson PS this is my sister-in-laws computer so forgive any delays on mail pickup -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 32) From: Marc Flake Subject: Re: IPMS/USA Dallas Updated list (24): David Angleo Derek Brown Bruce Buchner John Collins Mike Czibovic Joe Damato Marc Flake Ed Grune Donald Hinton Jim Johnson Dave Miller Art Nicholson Tony Partlow Nathan Pettigrew Allan and Crystal Plumb Mike Quan Kelly Quirk Nat Richards Bruce Ross John Snyder Rusty White Derek Wakefield Steve Wiper Got another vote on the get-together, so I'll start at tabulation of this as well Friday lunch -- 1 Saturday lunch -- 1 Saturday "Happy hour" -- 1 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 33) From: "Peter K. H. Mispelkamp" Subject: Graf Zepplelin Air Wing Well guys, it seems that we are stalled at the numbers I posted about two days ago. One of you is thinking of adding one more of each depending on the final price. This would bring us to 15 bags of Bf 109T's, 14 bags of Ju 87B/C's and 14 bags of Fi 167's. I would hate to miss out by such a small number, but as we say in Quebec " c'est la vie". I have contacted WEM to finalize the cost, and hope to be able to place the order soon. But this won't happen without your support. About the only one of these planes that WEM might ever make without our order is the Ju 87B. I for one do not want to try and back date their Bf 109F/G or Ju 87G. So, now's the time. Sincerely Happy Modeling Peter K. H. Mispelkamp -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 34) From: Bradford Chaucer Subject: Re: decals >> Can someone help? I tried to create a decal using the clear decal sheet (from WEM) and a colour inkjet printer but the ink just sat on top and never adhered to the decal sheet. It smeared even after leaving alone for 24 hrs. I then tried spraying a clear coat to bind it somehow and again let dry for 24 hrs, now it didn't smear to touch but once in the water everything just dissolved. Any ideas on how to do better? << Yes, wrong type of printer. You need an Alps which is a thermal wax process as opposed to water soluble ink jet. Regards, Bradford Chaucer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 35) From: Lawman555@aol.com Subject: Re: Subchaser Rusty; The Glencoe WWI subchaser is approximately 1/74 scale, according to the box. It is about 4 feet narrower than the WWII version. The problem I had was after scratchbuilding everything above the deck, the 20mm guns could not rotate fully without throwing the operator overboard, or hitting the railing. I haven't gotten to building the radar and mast yet; but don't see that as a problem. The kit was discontinued probably during the mid 60's. There are still a few out there; but you have to seek them out. Hope this helps whoever was asking about the kit. Once my web site problems are worked out, there will be information available to use that may help a modeller create a WWII version of the ship. http://members.aol.com/Lawman555/subchaser.html Jim Myers -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 36) From: Allan and Crystal Plumb Subject: Re: Royal Oak >> The picture of the Royal Oak shows what appear to be torpedo blisters along the hull. << Yes, the Royal Sovereigns were bulged in the twenties. >> Despite these the Royal Oak sank in 13 minutes apparently after being struck by as few as 3 torpedoes. Why did this ship, (and the battleship HMS BARHAM, also sunk by U boat) sink so quickly? In contrast, the Yamato and Musashi, I understand, took over a dozen torpedo hits, plus several bomb hits, to sink. << Probably because (a) the British ships were designed before WWI with much lower standards of torpedo protection, (b) the bulging could help but not enough, (c) the Japanese ships _were_ designed for such things, and (d) Yamato had the slight advantage of twice the tonnage. Other things being equal (which they were not), well-planned use of extra volume is a Good Thing. Allan Plumb -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 37) From: Allan and Crystal Plumb Subject: Re: USS San Jose, Matthews, Butternut >>> Anyone know? (1) What class are these ships? (2) Are there any models available of this class of vessel? << Could you give us some context, for example period? For example, there is a USS San Jose currently - a Mars class combat stores ship, currently in the MSC. Just at a WAG, I wouldn't expect them to be of the same class. Even the USN isn't usually quite that fractured on its naming conventions. Just a guess, though. Allan Plumb (No sign of Matthews or Butternut in Combat Fleets. I could check Janes/WWII, but it would take a while, and if they're modern...) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 38) From: Duane Fowler Subject: HOW TO MAKE DECALS Hello Henry, Short of putting out several hundred dollars for an Apls printer, try spraying the decal paper with a flat clearcoat first. The probelm is that the liquid decal ink will not stick to the glossy decal film. The matte coating will roughen up the surface so that the ink has something to stick to. Regards, Duane Fowler -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 39) From: "Cypryan Klish" Subject: Re: USS San Jose, Matthews, Butternut Checked the usual WWII references and found: - USS Butternut, AN9, an Aloe class net laying ship. - USS Mathews, AKA96, an Andromeda class attack cargo ship. These two are radically different in size and tonnage. In the first case, a ship named after a type of tree is a giveaway that it is a net laying ship (at least, for the WWII era, when naming practices were more consistent than today.) Found no USS San Jose. Of course, the three you are asking about might also be of different era. Kip -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 40) From: "Cypryan Klish" Subject: Friedman Books I have several and find them very useful for understanding why the subject ships were arranged the way they were, and for dating modifications and class alterations. I find these insights make my modeling more enjoyable when I understand the technical decisions and trade-offs behind the vessel's appearance. There are some very decent drawings but I wouldn't consider them as a substitute for a good class or ship specific reference like a Warship Pictorial or Profile Morskie. Kip -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 41) From: Wjp18086@aol.com Subject: USS Blue Ridge Does anyone know if there are any model kits produced of the USS Blue Ridge -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 42) From: Rick Heinbaugh Subject: Re: HOSHO Airwing - Thanks! Thanks for all the detailed replies. The links to sites for Japanese ships & aircraft were an unexpected bonus! And now I know that if I want to use that cool cylindrical island, it's going to have to be 1923. Will do. Rick -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 43) From: Chuck Messer Subject: Re: Committees "When adding up committees, there's a useful rule of thumb, That talents make a difference and follies make a sum." -Piet Hein Or was that Burma Shave? :^)) Chuck Messer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 44) From: jbklb Subject: Re: John C. Butler Class Reply to Alan Simon on John C. Butler Class. Skywave/PitRoad has a 1/700th scale plastic kit of the John C. Butler, kit #W-17 which would retail in the $25.00 range. This is an excellent kit, typical SkyWave/PitRoad. Might need some photoetch for the rails, radars, etc., but all in all a good kit. Might even find one on e-bay for less!! Good Luck in your search/selection. Loren -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 45) From: ECammeron@aol.com Subject: Re: USS San Jose, Matthews, Butternut San Jose is an AFS, (modern supply ship), Mathews was a WW II AKA, (a C2-S-B1), AKA-96, Butternut was a net tender, (AN-9). Eugene -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 46) From: steven lau Subject: IPMS Nationals Count me in as well. We will be arriving Wed evening but I plan on missing Thursday as I would like to drive down to Houston to see the USS Texas that day. Unless, of course, any of our Texas friends think a day trip from Dallas to Houston is nuts. By the way, anyone have any idea how late the Texas is open? I would love to attend some sort of get together while in Dallas. Saturday sounds good to me, especially something involving 2 carbon units. One of the other groups I hang out with a little are the real space people (i.e.: Apollo, Mercury, etc.). Every year for the last few years they have not only congregated together at the banquet, but also held a fairly informal seminar. This usually includes manufacturers discussing kits and projects as well as anyone who wants to show his pictures, books, kits or just tell stories. It's usually kind of fun and provides a chance to meet people you may not already know. Just a thought. By the way, my current project is an airplane. Before anyone gets any bad ideas about me you should know that it is an F-14 so it's ok. I'm building the Hasegawa 1/48 kit along with the Black Box resin cockpit set. It's proving to be more of a challenge than I thought. Some fit problems with the kit while the cockpit is definitely not one that just drops in place, looks nice though. See you in Dallas. Steven Lau in Nebraska where baseball is played as it was meant to be at the College World Series. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 47) From: Roland Mar Subject: Re: Mystery ships To: Rusty White I can find no USS SAN JOSE in WW II, however there is the Combat Stores Ship USS SAN JOSE (AFS-7) commissioned 23 Oct. 1970. She's of the MARS class and should be findable in any current reference. There is no "MATTHEWS" anywhere immediately at hand, but there was a WW II MATHEWS (AKA-96), an Attack Cargo Ship. She was a converted C2-S-B1 (Maritime Commission type designation). Basically, this is the type ship that launched landing crafts full of Marines. The BUTTERNUT was a Net Laying Ship (AN-9) of about 500 tons (light) built in early WW II. While she was stricken, I believe, after WW II; I think some of her sister ships were taken over by the Coast Guard as bouy tenders. I leave kit availability to others as I still am unfamiliar with all of the amazing variety of kits that are around since I was a kid building Revell box scale ships. Hope this helps. Roland Mar -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 48) From: "Simon Wolff" Subject: Royal Oak Hi you all.. >> There is a very good account of her sinking in Black Saturday by Alexander McKee (out of print). << Another book on the Royal Oak sinking is "The Royal Oak Disaster" by Gerald S. Snyder, publisher Granada. It is an interesting read. As for kits the old Frog kit of the Royal Sovereign was resurrected only a couple of years ago by 'Plastyk' in 1/500.... I believe it may still be around. I bought this with a plan to building the Royal Oak from it... gee yet another plan.. regards Simon Wolff -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 49 From: "Bruce Buchner" Subject: USS San Jose, Matthews, Butternut You didn't give a time frame so here is a guess. My US Warships of WWII by Paul Silverstone lists Butternut as AN 9, Netlayer and lists a Mathews (note one T) as AKA 96, Attack Transport. No listing for San Jose. Hope this helps. Bruce Buchner -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 50) From: RhinoBones@aol.com Subject: Re: Paper Models >> Paper Ship Modeling is a different experience--lots of very interesting subjects are available << I think David is correct in his assessment of the quality and complexity of some of these cardboard/papeer stock ship kits. Some of the companies list the number of pieces as in the thousands and sell separate detailing kits. The scales are typically 200-250 with a few kits offered in the 400 scale. Large selection. Another good site to shop at is Maritime Card Models: http://www.harbour.org/models/ Regards, RhinoBones -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- SMMLcon Infomation & posts -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: CapnAgee@aol.com Subject: Re: SMMLcon 2005 Yo! Finally a place/reason to take the wife to Canada.. See you there! Is there an Embassy Suites? Ray Agee aka CapnAgee@aol.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Derek Frost Subject: FOR SALE "WARSHIP" VOLUME II & III Prices quoted in $US & postage will be extra:- "WARSHIP VOLUME II". Anthony Preston, editor. 1984 3rd impression. A bound copy of articles which appeared in "Warship" magazine covering a wide variety of historical periods and vessels. Among the articles are those on HMS Tiger; Soviet G5 MTB; Capitani Romani class; Viribus Unitis and many others. Hc but no dust jacket & not known if published with a jacket. 288 pp. Prof. Ill. b/w photos and scale drawings. New. $27.00 "WARSHIP VOLUME III". John Roberts, editor. 1984 2nd impression. A bound copy of articles which appeared in "Warship" magazine covering a wide variety of historical periods and vessels. Maong the articles are those on King George V Class; SMS von der Tann; British Super Heavy Guns and many more. Hc but no dust jacket & not known if published with a jacket. 288 pp. Prof. Ill. b/w photos and scale drawings. New. $27.00 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: SteveWiper@aol.com Subject: Update from Classic Warships I just sent the negatives off to the photo etcher for the 1/350 USS Brooklyn and USS Helena kits today. Lots of extra goodies on this set so you will be able to build any of the ships in these two classes, at almost any date. On a side note: No two ships of this class were the same, so if you want an accurate version of any of the other ships, you will need to get photo references. The Floating Drydock is your best source. Also in the works is the set of photo etch, for which I just sent negatives to the etchers, for 1/700 USN .50cal. machine-guns, and single and twin 20mm guns. You will get all these weapons in one set, 12X .50cal., 36X single 20mm, and 13X twin 20mm guns, for $4.00. These will be available thru Pacific Front Hobbies, and will debut at the IPMS Nat. Conv. in Dallas, this July. Thanks, Steve - www.classicwarships.simplenet.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for having SMML at your home, why not stop by our home at: http://www.smml.org.uk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume