Subject: SMML VOL 945 Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 02:07:42 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: T-3 Tanker Plans 2: Anatomy of the ship book and kit for sale 3: Typhoon 4: CSS Hunley Research 5: cases - an alternative approach 6: Royal Oak 7: Re: AKA 8: Re: T-3 Tanker Plans 9: AKA designation 10: Re: Bob Santos' Models 11: Diving on royal oak 12: Re: Japanese boot topping 13: Broken Display Cases and Bad Judgment 14: Re: Soviet Space Program 15: Re: IPMS-USA Dallas 16: Re: Camo question 17: U.S.S. Blue Ridge 18: "Midway: A Twist Of Fate" 19: T-3 Tanker Plans 20: Re: Space Shuttles 21: USS Texas 22: Re: IPMS-USA Dallas 23: PT Gun Tubs & PT 109 Color -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: airandseamodels.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: ALROSS2@aol.com Subject: Re: T-3 Tanker Plans >> I am in search of Plans for the T-3 Tanker as built by Bethlehem Shipbuilding at Sparrows Point, MD, in World War II. << The Smithsonian has two sets available in their Maritime Administration Ship Design Collection. These are for a T3-S-A1 and a T3-SA-A1. Ship Plans Maritime Collections NMAH-5010/MRC 628 Smithsonian Institution Washington, DC 20560 USA The catalog used to be US$10 and is well worth having. Al Ross -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Anatomy of the ship book and kit for sale I've seen a lot of requests for this book on SMML. Just found a great combo on eBay. It includes the AOTS Yamato book, the Tamiya 1/700 Yamato kit (not the new release) and the Mike Ashey book, Detailing and Building Scale Model Ships. Have at it! Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ "Yeah I want Cheesy Poofs" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "g.p.w." Subject: Typhoon can any one help me find a good sized model kit of a Typhoon or an Akula please if so could you let me know, many thanks Geoff Wilks. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: CapnAgee@aol.com Subject: CSS Hunley Research For those SMMLies who have built or are contemplating building the CSS Hunley, she is being brought up soon. Somehow I got on a mssg list giving accounts of the diving on her. It seems there is a lot of detail that hasn't been documented before. If you're interested, I'm forwarding the most recent notice. The address is - - - - jhrloe@charlestondistributors.com. Ray Agee aka CapnAgee@aol.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: ALROSS2@aol.com Subject: cases - an alternative approach A friend of mine, Dan Turner, makes all of my cases, usually from cherry. Dan takes a somewhat untraditional approach to construction that I really like because it results in an extremely solid case, one that may minimize the possibility of disasters like that which befell Bob (major condolences, my friend). Most cases have a removable top. Dan's cases have a removable bottom. That is, all of the framing is solidly attached to the glazing (glass or acrylic) and the bottom is held to the frame by two cleats. To install a model into the case, the model is first mounted on the case bottom; then, the case is inverted or stood on one end, and the base is laid into the frame. On large models, we temporarily attach a handle to the bottom to facilitate handling. Once the bottom is in place, the handle is removed and the cleats are screwed into the sides of the frame. This approach works fine for just about any model. We've successfully encased big models like BlueJacket's CONSTITUTION (lots of "sticks" just waiting to be broken...:-}) without any problem. If anyone wants to contact Dan (shameless plug), you can reach him at: dancyco@aol.com Al Ross -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "murph" Subject: Royal Oak Hi Chris this could go on and on, perhaps we should leave it be, we will never know why Prien fabricated these stories. Re the torpedo fragments, they were found in 1973 near the wreck by David Gorn (a local shopkeeper/scuba diver) and were identified as being the gears and motor of a type G7e torpedo(ID number 2874), three weeks later Eric Kemp (another local shopkeeper/scuba diver !!) found remains of another torpedo (number 2597) near amidships on the wreck. The two torpedoes were identified by the German navy as being produced prior to the start of hostilities. I should point out that the two scuba divers had permission from the navy to dive in the vicinity of the wreck providing they did not take any photos or enter the wreck or remove any artifacts. TTYL Murph -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: Dave Judy Subject: Re: AKA To all: My apologies, a meer slip of the brain.......... Dave Judy -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Derek Wakefield Subject: Re: T-3 Tanker Plans Al... There were three classes of T3's; the T3-S2-A1 type Cimmaron cl, the T3-S-A1 type Chiwawa cl, and the T3-S2-A3 type Ashtabula cl. The S2-A3's were almost identical to the earlier S2-A1's. The S-A1's differered in having a single screw propulsion (while the others had twin screw propulsion). Three of the S2-A1's, and all S-A1's and S2-A3's were built at Sparrow's point, and all served as fleet oilers (AO) in the USN during and after WWII. If you happen to know the former USN names (or hull number) of these ships, post them here and I'll let you know what type/class they belonged to. The Floating Drydock is the only place I know of that has plans, and then only for the two T3-S2-A1 Cimmaron cl ships SALAMONIE & KASKASKIA (as completed as armed naval fleet oilers). FYI, neither of these ships were built at Sparrow's Point (instead, they were built at Newport News). However, they were built according to the same basic Maritime Commission design. The major differences fell in the area of how they were navalized prior to being commissioned in the USN. The various ships tended to differ a great deal in this respect. A good source of information about these ships (in general) can be found in Thomas Wildenberg's "Gray Steel and Black Oil, Fast Tankers and Replenishment at Sea in the U.S. Navy, 1912-1992." I found my copy via Bookfinder.com. Hope this helps... Go Navy! _|_o_|_ Derek "Tiger" (/\)akefield /---(.](o)[.)---\ iscandar@chatter.com o oo O oo o http://www.iscandar-66.org -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: Douglas Bauer Subject: AKA designation Actually, AKA stands for "Amphibious Attack Cargo" ship....later, amphibious vessels were given the prefix "L", as in LKA, to coincide with the other "Gator Navy" ships' designators: LST, LSD, LPD, LHA, LPH, etc. I served aboard USS Merrick (AKA97), and USS Windham County (LST1170). Doug Bauer Poway, CA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: SantMin@aol.com Subject: Re: Bob Santos' Models >> Bob's too modest to say anything so I will. Check out the Warship site and take a peek at some of Bob Santo's models. Many you have already seen in FSM. His water cross section dioramas are some of the best I've seen. Marvelous technique. << You guys are too kind!!! The process is quite easy, and it's hard to photograph but if you get a nice strong top light you can see the squiggly lines made by surface waves on underwater objects just like real. I explained the whole process in two Fine Scale Modeler articles and they are slightly different so if you want to try it out you should have both. The first was in the June 87 issue (which is sold-out but they tell me they can supply copies of the article titled "Modeling water from above and below". The other was in the July 91 issue which is still available. As an aside, that second one always embarrassed me because FSM had a new editor back then (no longer there) and he practically rewrote the text adding a whole bunch of "cute" puns which I didn't think were cute. All his words, not mine. However, the water technique is still there. The article deals with USS PLUNGER. Cheers, Bob Santos -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "katzcom" Subject: Diving on royal oak Yes I know that you can not dive on her, I forgot to say that in my first post,(just goes to show you really should proof read before sending to SMML) :) though navy divers and also marine experts have done so, as to the oil from the wreak they are or have installed some kind of device which is supposed to collect the oil, which then can be removed at a later date. This was done due to the fact that the hull was starting to break up/ rust away. best wishes graham -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "Reynaga, Tim@EDD" Subject: Re: Japanese boot topping The Profile Morskie (as well as the related Monografie Morskie) books are useful resources, especially for photographs. Their color renderings are attractive also, but I would be careful in using these depictions as modeling references. I have seen inaccuracies in other volumes, and I suspect the Yukikaze boot topping is in this category. I've never heard of any Imperial Navy ship with boot topping... Tim Reynaga -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: GrafSpee34@aol.com Subject: Broken Display Cases and Bad Judgment I guess this isn't really informative as far as ship modeling goes, but it is a lesson in good manners and not breaking things... I had the pleasure of seeing the late Jim Jones Shinano model (featured in FSM a while back) at a model convention in Niagara Falls, NY. For two days it recieved oohs and ahhs from an admiring public. Even little kids and old ladies could see this was a magnificent work of art. Anyway, during the judging at the end, I looked into the hall to see that one of the judges was using the display case in which the Shinano rested, as a WRITING TABLE!!!! He just piled his pens and papers on top of the thing like a college professor before a lecturn. Fortunately, the case withstood the abuse. But you'd think a guy who calls himself a judge would excersise, well...better judgment. For wat its worth Dave -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: klmok@home.com Subject: Re: Soviet Space Program >> The Russian space shuttle, which bore a strong resemblance to the U.S. one (shock and amazement), but did not have the large main engines of the U.S. shuttles. One surviving example of the Buran is now in central Moscow's Gorkiy Park amusement park ... << The best overview of the Soviet Space Program I have seen is from the October 1986 issue of the National Geographic. There are satellite photos of the Baikonur Cosmodrome as well as photos and drawings of the launch boosters, etc. Kelvin Mok -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: Marc Flake Subject: Re: IPMS-USA Dallas No new names to add so I'll tally the get-togehter votes. By the way, you can vote for more than one time. Rusty, for example votes for a Friday or Saturday lunch, so I add one vote for each time. Here's the results so far: Friday lunch -- 2 Saturday "sometime"-- 1 Saturday lunch -- 2 Saturday "Happy hour" -- 1 Unless someone else takes over while I'm on vacation, I won't be tabulating either list until Thursday or Friday. I'm headed down to the Houston/Galveston area for a vacation. Will visit the TEXAS at the San Jacinto Battlefield and the Lone Star Flight Museum in Galveston (which has a 1/72 carrier -- either the Enterprise or one of the Essex's). I may also try to talk the mrs. into searching for the Destroyer Escort that's supposed to be on display in Galveston. TTFN Marc -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "John Snyder" Subject: Re: Camo question Inboard surfaces were solid color. For instance, from all the photos I've inspected the inside of 40mm gun tubs appear to have had Deck Blue extended up the inside of the spinter shields. The inside of splinter shields on open bridges appear the same. Interestingly, official USN directives are silent on this subject. I did note that canvas covers fastened to the outside of 40mm gun tubs, which were unrolled over the insides of the tubs, were dark, as were canvas "dodgers" fastened to bridge railings and searchlight platform railings. From the 1943 "Instructions For Painting and Cementing Vessels of the United States Navy": "Canvas, when required by camouflage instructions, shall be dyed with a preservative (Navy Department Specification 52C26) tinted to the color of the deck blue paint, formula 20-B." This would seem to bear out that the insides of those surfaces were painted Deck Blue as well. John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys http://www.shipcamouflage.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: "William Oreto" Subject: U.S.S. Blue Ridge A 1/700 scale resin model of the U.S.S. Blue Ridge (or her sister ship the Mt. Whitney) is made by Hi-Molds. The kit can be made into her late 80's or early 90s fit. The Blue Ridge Kit is superb and of high quality. If I remember correctly the Blue Ridge gained newspaper fame during the fall of Saigon with the disposal of the Huey Helicopters off her fantail and the rescuing of fleeing Vietnamese. The kit should be available through Pacific Front Hobbies. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: Lump518176@aol.com Subject: "Midway: A Twist Of Fate" Check out the video "Midway: A Twist Of Fate" from the Discovery Channel. Great footage of various ships/aircraft. Best shots are of Lexington CV-2 underway circa Jan 1942 (judging by Buffalos markings on deck) wearing MS-12 (Robert Stern was right in his book!), and color footage of TBDs of Torpedo 8 filmed by John Ford. I have never before seen these clips, as well as numerous others, great documentary! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: Charles Leo Subject: T-3 Tanker Plans >> I am in search of Plans for the T-3 Tanker as built by Bethlehem Shipbuilding at Sparrows Point, MD, in World War II. << A place to start looking is at the UNC page on US Navy Ships based on US Maritime Commission designs: http://metalab.unc.edu/hyperwar/USN/ships/ships-mc.html You can find the Maritime Administration's home page at http://www.marad.dot.gov/ More information and links are on a Navy web page: http://www.nvr.navy.mil/marad.htm I obtained a copy of a microfilm from MarAd (I think) that has the hull lines, outboard profile, deck layout, plating diagram and other things for a T2-SE-A1 built by Sun Shipbuilding that I hope to build someday. I obtained many detail plans from Chevron Shipping Company, who owned and operated the vessel when I first visited her as a kid - when the hull lines were lost to an old cat with kidney failure, I wrote and asked if I could get a new copy and was informed that the plans had all been retired to "archives" and were no longer available. If you can find out what the hull number you're interested in is (or, are, if there's more than one), write to them - you can start by going to their home page and contacting them and finding out the correct group name, address and mailstop - and request specifically what you said in your post, along with the hull number(s) you want the information about. They had an extensive vault with a librarian who could pluck the roll of film out without looking hard and put it on a viewer to see if that was what I wanted. If you can visit them (they were, in the early '90's, across 7th St from HUD), you can find out exactly what you want and arrange to get a copy of the whole roll, which you will then have for future reference and reprinting. Hope this helps. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: Erwin Van Deynze Subject: Re: Space Shuttles >> ESA: ditto, although they do have some trials models. << The Hermes project as it was called, was ditched in favour of spending the funds to the International Space Station. Erwin -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: James Corley Subject: USS Texas From: "Edward F Grune" >> I'll decline to comment on your mental state, as I've done similar. However, if you choose to do both the Texas and NASA Houston in one day - then I might be inclined to say something. << Well, I must be crazy then ... was planning on leaving Atlanta Tuesday and going to Houston then on up to Dallas Wed nite. And, yes, I was planning on doing both things. JZ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: James Corley Subject: Re: IPMS-USA Dallas >> Updated list (28): << Mark, I will be there too. I guess I'm #29 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: GrafSpee34@aol.com Subject: PT Gun Tubs & PT 109 Color Undertaking my once-a-decade file cabinet cleaning and found some interesting stuff I had forgotten about. Here's a couple of tidbits from my correspondence file. This is from a letter sent to me by a veteran of PT Ron 24 in the mid 1980's On the gun tub: "...the gunner does not sit but stands with his knees bent on the outer ring while applying pressure to the back rest. The turret is rotated by moving the feet. You wil note there are no sights on the guns as they were aimed by following tracers fired. " The color scheme: "I have my doubts that the 109 boat was ever painted green. I say this due to the fact that when the 106 boat was reasigned from Ron 5 to Ron 24 on February 15 1945, it was painted a light gray. As all the boats in Ron 24 were painted a dark green, this stood out like a litter of black puppies with one white pup. The 106 boat and the 109 boat were both in Ron 5." Any comments? Dave -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Kenneth H. Goldman" Subject: airandseamodels.com The June issue of Air and Sea Models.com (formerly navismagazine.com) will be available June 25th. As of today, www.navismagazine.com will still get you there. FEATURES: - THE WAR IN THE MEDITERRANEAN, AN AERO-NAVAL PERSPECTIVE - PART 4 - S.S. O'BRIEN: LIBERTY SHIP WALK-AROUND - NORTH AMERICAN F-86F SABRE WALK-AROUND - TECHNIQUE 7: RIGGING AIRCRAFT: Construction features: - 1/48 Messerschmit Bf 109D - 1/48 A-1J USAF Skyraider - 1/48 Fokker D.VII - 1/72 Fieseler Fi 156C-1 Stork - 1/72 Messerschmit Bf 109D Model showcase: - 1/48 Hansa-Brandenburg D.I - 1/72 Fokker E.V - 1/72 Mirage 2000 - 1/72 F-104RB Virtual Reality model: - 1/48 Hawker Sea Hurricane IIc SHIPS: Construction features: - 1/200 USS C. Carroll APA-28 - Diorama: USS Skipkack SSN-585 at dock - 1/700 IJN Hei-type escort - 1/700 Kriegsmarine F-type escort Model showcase: - 1/96 HMNZS Royalist - 1/96 Uzushio - 1/96 Pacific Star - Diorama: the making of America Virtual Reality Model: - 1/700 IJN Yunagi COLUMNS: - PHOTO-HISTORY (AIR): MALTESE FALCONS - RAF at Malta 40-45 - PHOTO-HISTORY (SHIPS): THE WAR IN THE MED: 1942 - ON THE MARKET - New kit and aftermarket product releases - TASK FORCES - Operation Pedestal - VIRTUAL PLACES: 10 original scenarios for Jane's USAF - INDUSTRY NEWS - NEW BOOKS - LETTERS - BULLETIN BOARD GAMES: (win great prizes: kits, books, detail sets etc.) - MYSTERY PHOTO (AIR) - win a 1/48 A-1J USAF Skyraider (Tamiya) - MYSTERY PHOTO (SHIPS) - win a 1/700 Heian Maru (Hasegawa) - TRIVIA QUIZ - win a GMM 1/540 scale Midway/Forrestal/Essex detail set -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for having SMML at your home, why not stop by our home at: http://www.smml.org.uk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume