Subject: SMML VOL 970 Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 00:00:32 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Movie "The Perfect Storm" 2: Re: 155mm (and 8"/L55 mk 71) 3: Re: List of all IJN and USS 1/700 WW II plastic models? 4: Re: DD-21 5: Re: NEW BEDFORD PF-71 6: Re: list of ships 7: Re: Coast Guard plans 8: Re: Tug plans 9: Re: Gato/Balao plans 10: Forced Perspective? 11: Thanks 12: Viking? 13: Re: List of all IJN and USS 1/700 WW II plastic models? 14: Re: List of all IJN and USS 1/700 WW II plastic models? 15: Re: Big guns 16: Re: DD-21 17: Revell Great Eastern 18: Re: guided shells 19: Re: Big Guns (relatively) 20: ...Continued on 21: Coast Guard Cutter models 22: Re: Largest island 23: Re: Big E Decals 24: USS Princeton (LPH-5) information 25: Modern USN colours 26: Submarine Stamps -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Re: Technomodels 2: Plans USCGC Tamaroa -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: JRKutina@webtv.net (John Kutina) Subject: Movie "The Perfect Storm" Just returned from seeing this excellent movie. If any of you experienced seaduty courtesy of the USN, USCG, or the USMC, you will particularly like it. The special effects were magnificent! I speak with some minor authority as the ship I was on [PC 180' sub chaser] was at Okinawa in September and October of 1945. We suffered through three typhoons during that period. During the first we were ordered to stay anchored in Bruckner Bay. The Okinawa beaches were littered with ships after that typhoon. Because of this damage, all ships were ordered to sea for the next two typhoons. The winds hit approximately 120 knots and the waves were running 50 to 60 feet in height. As in the movie, our ship rode up the oncoming waves to the crest and then plunged down the back side - as the Sword Boat "Andrea Gail" did until they were swamped. The films's action scenes of sea water crashing onto the Sword Boat were exceedingly realistic. I was a motor machinist's mate and the engine room crew spent days and nights down there as we could not come up on deck safely. All we had to eat were canned sardines and crackers for this period. All we could do is man the throttles and change to " disengage" when the screws came out of the water at the top of each wave. In Japan's history, they were saved from an invasion by the Chinese because a typhoon wiped out the invasion fleet at sea before it reached Japan. The Japanese called this "Kamikaze" - divine wind. If we had not dropped the A-bombs and ended the war, it is possible that these three 1945 "divine wind" typhoons might have wiped out our amphibious vessels and cancelled or substantially delayed "Operation Olympic" - our planned invasion of Japan. This is one of the strange factors of war and nature. The sea is always a unique and often unpredictable adversary. All of you must love the sea and ships to be a part of SMML. I recommend you see this movie to fully understand the fury of the sea when it is at its worst. Regards, John - Seattle -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: drwells@hogpb.mt.att.com (David R Wells) Subject: Re: 155mm (and 8"/L55 mk 71) Derek (iscandar@chatter.com) wrote: >> True, but compared to the 76-127mm guns currently in service, I'd call it a definite improvement. This is the first talk I've heard of a gun over 127mm since the 60's. << What about the (in)famous 8"/L55 mk 71, from the late 1970s? They actually made a couple of prototypes, and tried them out on ships. I'd say that they were more than just talk. I've heard that they were a bit problematical in practice, (mounting was a bit too fragile???) but I've always suspected that they could have overcome the engineering problems if they'd pursued the program. OBmodels: I actually tried to make an 8"/L55 Mk 71 in wood on a 1/500 CSGN model, based on the drawing in Friedman's "US Cruisers". The gun came out OK, but I never did finish the model. It's still sitting on my shelf, waiting for me to figure out how to do the masts, radars, etc. I'm afraid that the resin/photoetch makers don't make much for those of us who favor 1/500. Maybe someday a resin caster will make a 1/700 mk 71 for those who want to make hypothetical Spruances..... David R. Wells "There seems to be something wrong | David R. Wells with our bloody ships today" | AT&T Middletown, NJ Adm. D. Beatty, May 31, 1916 | Email: drwells@hogpa.mt.att.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: drwells@hogpb.mt.att.com (David R Wells) Subject: Re: List of all IJN and USS 1/700 WW II plastic models? Ken Stuart wrote: >> I'm very new to this world of modeling and this list, and am hoping someone can point me to a single list of all the IJN and USN 1/700 WW II plastic models currently on the market, as well as ones that may have gone out of print. << Try Rajen's List: http://www.quuxuum.org/rajens_list/shiprevs.html It includes more than just 1/700 kits, but you should be able to find what you're looking for. >> In my experience so far, it does seem that there appear to be far fewer USN cruisers and destroyers available than there are IJN ones. The USN carriers and battleships seem to be common, but not the cruisers and destroyers. Is this just a reflection of market demand and model company interests? << Well, that's a long story, but look where most of the injection molded polystyrene kits come from. It explains a lot.... David R. Wells Still waiting for Joe to put the latest updates in....... "There seems to be something wrong | David R. Wells with our bloody ships today" | AT&T Middletown, NJ Adm. D. Beatty, May 31, 1916 | Email: drwells@hogpa.mt.att.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Steven P. Allen" Subject: Re: DD-21 Why not paint it gray and disguise it as a USN warship: nobody would ever take that seriously. BTW, re: 16" guns: there remain stored spare barrels--34, I think--but the wear item is the liner. Producing more would be expensive (up front, to rehab the manufacturing capability) but not impossible. The USN is slowly allowing the Iowas' infrastructure to degrade, but it's not gone yet. Also BTW, I'm a big fan of the Mk 71 MCLWG. Steve Allen -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: SantMin@aol.com Subject: Re: NEW BEDFORD PF-71 >> I'm looking for drawings for the WWII Coast Guard Frigate NEW BEDFORD (PF-71). << I wrote that in a hurry. Actually, she was a USN ship but manned by US Coast Guardsmen. Bob -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: SantMin@aol.com Subject: Re: list of ships >> I'm very new to this world of modeling and this list, and am hoping someone can point me to a single list of all the IJN and USN 1/700 WW II plastic models currently on the market, as well as ones that may have gone out of print. << Ken, This site says they have every ship kit listed but I don't know how true that is. http://www.quuxuum.org/rajens_list/rajen.html Bob -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Coast Guard plans >> Someone on this list once gave an address where info and plans for Coast Guard Vessels could be bought and I lost it. If your out there, please reply....... I'm looking for drawings for the WWII Coast Guard Frigate NEW BEDFORD (PF-71). << Ah ha!! A chance to return the favor for the owls. Victor Bacca, owner of Photo Marine Archives and Model Ship Journal, has lots of coast guard plans. Contact him at :modelships@earthlink.net Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ "Yeah I want Cheesy Poofs" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Tug plans >> I would like to know if anyone out there has information on ATF Navy and Coast guard fleet tugs. Any sources for plans and kits etc. Any help would be greatly appreciated. I served aboard the CGC Tamaroa And would like to build a model of her. << Check out my reply to Bob Santos above for Coast Guard plans. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ "Yeah I want Cheesy Poofs" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Gato/Balao plans >> Gato/Balao or Missouri Plan Books? I'm sort of tight on money right now, and I'd appreciate a short review of either. A scanned sample might be of some help, too. << I just built a Gato class sub using the Floating Dry Dock plan book. It have everything you will ever need to build one. Well worth the money. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ "Yeah I want Cheesy Poofs" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Ned Barnett Subject: Forced Perspective? How can I make a JAG 1/350 PT boat into a 1/400 PT for deck cargo on a Mission Capistrano? Should I use a photocopier with a reduction feature, try forced visual compression or just give up and scratch-build the things? Ned Barnett -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: Michael John Zwierko Subject: Thanks I would like to thank those of you who pointed me to a source for those 1/350 Enterprise decals (both online and through email). I appreciate it. Mike -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: Burl Burlingame / Pacific Monograph Subject: Viking? Whatever happened to Viking Models? Are they still in business? Burl Pacific Monograph, 1124 Kahili Street, Kailua HI 96734 808-263-6087 buzz@aloha.net A historical interpretation company. Visit our web site at http://www.PacificHistory.com/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: SteveWiper@aol.com Subject: Re: List of all IJN and USS 1/700 WW II plastic models? Ken, The quickest way to find a list of all the plastic AND resin kits in any scale is to purchase the Pacific Front Hobbies catalog, at $5. Go to their web site @ www.pacificfront.com. You will find an amazing amount of kits, damn near all the ones available on the planet. Well, this planet, anyway. I would highly recommend the new publication, Model Ship Journal. It has the best photo reproduction currently available in steam powered ship modeling magazines. It covers plan sets, a first, I think, for model journals. Kit reviews, build up's, and walk-arounds (photo tours, dating from now, back to the turn of the century) on the actual ships. Scales covered are 1/1250 up thru 1/48? Go to www.modelshipjournal.com for more info. Hope this helps, Steve Wiper - www.classicwarships.simplenet.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "Fernando, Yohan" Subject: Re: List of all IJN and USS 1/700 WW II plastic models? A place to get a good list of 1/700 IJN kits is http://www.j-aircraft.com under the 'Japanese Ships' then select the ship type. The list also includes resin kits I think. As for the relative lack of USN 1/700 kits in plastic- blame it on the US kit manufacturers! In the 70's the "Waterline Consortium" (Tamiya, Hasegawa, Aoshima, Fujimi) decided to attempt to represent the bulk of the IJN fleet in 1/700 scale- the beginnings of /700 waterline models. They split the list of ships among themselves to avoid duplicate kits and went to work. Since then, they have added a number of non-IJN subjects that would be guaranteed to sell well (US fast battleships, carriers, Bismarck, Hood, etc). Skywave (another Japanese model company) also makes a large range of 1/700 waterline kits, which for the most part of IJN ships, but also include a fair share of US ships (light carriers, destroyer escorts, etc). 1/700 waterline is now a de-facto ship modeling scale and resin companies work in this scale to a great extent (along with 1/350- the other standard scale). The benefits of a common scale is that the modeler can build a collection of ships and display them 'in scale'. It also helps with small companies releasing standard upgrade parts, photoetch, etc. that can be used across a large number of existing kits. US plastic kit manufacturers, on the other hand, used non-standard scales between their models (1/429, 1/538.. or whatever to fit the box size) and you ended up with a motley collection of ships all at different scales. No wonder ship models never seemed very popular in the US compared to planes and armor. The idea of a consistant collection of subjects all at the same scale is what made the waterline series so popular and led to its growth and expansion into the resin market. The US companies never really picked up on this. Wouldn't it have been great if one (or more) respected US model companies had decided to do the same with the US WWII fleet as the waterline consortium did with the IJN fleet? At least the Japanese companies have been including a number of US ships and the resin companies have been picking up the rest. Yohan Fernando -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: Bradford Chaucer Subject: Re: Big guns >> Very true. Couple problems, though. 1) Not many (0) 16" barrels in comission right now. 2) Darn few in reserve!! 3) Limited barrel life on those few remaining, and we no longer have the ability to produce more. And the number of spare barrels is also small. Especially since someone torched the spare barrels at Long Beach instead of shipping them to Fort Irwin for storage! So be happy we might have the 155mm. << Actually the Army uses guns larger than 155mm. I would also question the statement that we no longer have the ability to produce larger gun barrels. We may not have the physical plant on line at the moment, but the capability could be revived if necessary. Regards, Bradford Chaucer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: Bradford Chaucer Subject: Re: DD-21 >> After viewing the artist's conceptions, Caroline Carter observed that one could paint it white and disguise it as an iceberg! John Snyder Or maybe paint it brown and disguise it as Gibraltar seen in forced perspective.... >-- << Actually after looking at the concept drawings, with the low free-board, 2 turrets and small "tower", my initial impression is that they reinvented the Monitor!!! Maybe they should call the first one the USS Erickson! Regards, Bradford Chaucer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: thorstenwahl@t-online.de (Wahl, Thorsten L.) Subject: Revell Great Eastern Hi Gang, just managed to get Revellīs Great Eastern from a garage sale - not my regular AoI, but certainly looks neat. Cost eight bucks - not much you can say about that ... A question though, since I donīt have the faintest idea ībout the real thing: has anyone built the kit already and would be willing to share some tips & info (building, picture sources et al)? Any & all info gratefully accepted. Thanks for listening Thorsten, IPMS (UK) x1602 īAt least we donīt name our ships for our mothers-in-law.ī USS Reuben James to HMS Battleaxe -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: "philip knell" Subject: Re: guided shells reference the guided shells check out the attached website for primax they make it. also i heard some time back that what was then oto melara now oto breda were working on a shell for the 76/62 that could be guided on to the target by the radar comparing the target and trajectory of the shell and correcting any errors by sending a radio signal to the shell which triggered it to steer by use of gas jets in the shell. http://www.primextech.com/lca.html phil -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: Rick Heinbaugh Subject: Re: Big Guns (relatively) Derek Wakefield wrote: >> True, but compared to the 76-127mm guns currently in service, I'd call it a definite improvement. This is the first talk I've heard of a gun over 127mm since the 60's. << In the late '70s, an 8" gun mount was tested on board USS HULL (DD 945), a FORREST SHERMAN class DD. It was in the forward gun position - some would say "A" turret, others would say Mount 81. It was referred to as major caliber lightweight gun (MCLG). I heard it was a bit much for HULL's hull (couldn't resist that) and caused memorable cracks. My understanding was that it was supposed to be a modular-type thing, like the conception for SPRUANCEs' 5" & ASROC mounts - supposed to be able to remove the forward 5" mount like pulling a tooth and stick the 8" gun module back in the same hole. They taught us about it in Surface Warfare Department Head School in 1986 as if it were a current weapon. I heard that it was officially approved but never purchased. An interesting variation to try with an old Revell JPJ/ DECATUR/ PARSONS kit. Hmmm... Rick Seattle, WA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: JRKutina@webtv.net (John Kutina) Subject: ...Continued on http://www.military.com/Content/MoreContent/1,11307,NLdigestUSN,00.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: Marc Flake Subject: Coast Guard Cutter models Anybody remember that resin Coast Guard Cutter model that was going to be made available at the Nationals? Was it the Northland, Eastwind, Northwind? And who was the manufacturer? That's the first booth I'm going to. If I find out. Marc -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: "chisum" Subject: Re: Largest island Too bad Texas aint futher south on the hemisphere then we'd be REALLY BIG!!!! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: ECammeron@aol.com Subject: Re: Big E Decals If you check, you find ENTERPRISE was in the yards for her very major overhaul throughout the time of Desert Storm. Eugene -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24) From: Jodie Peeler Subject: USS Princeton (LPH-5) information hello all.... I'm about to re-visit a project I did about 10 years ago, only this time I'm wanting to do it much better than the first time. This involves converting the 1/700 Hasegawa kit of the USS Hancock into the USS Princeton (ex-CV-37) as an amphibious assault ship in the late 1960s (specifically May 1969, as prime recovery ship for Apollo 10). I figure this will be a nice, relatively quick way to build a ship that's a little out of the mainstream, plus it'll let me feed my jones for spaceflight recovery ships too. I already have a few sources on this ship, including some of the better books on the CV-9 class. Problem is, all of them are back home in South Carolina and I'm now in Florida. Does anyone out there have some detail information on the LPH-5 that he/she could share with me? I'm especially interested in shots of the mast/radar fit, and the configuration of the catwalks (i.e. the location and configuration of the former 20mm gun platforms). You know, all the stuff that makes modeling individual units of the CV-9 class so maddening. Also, nice *clear* photos of the ship in the late 1960s would be appreciated. Most everything I've found on the usual on-line sources has been muddy or out of date (i.e. early in her life as an LPH). If you can help me with this, please contact me off-list. Thanks in advance! jodie http://www.mindspring.com/~raisingirl/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 25) From: "Martin Gertenbach" Subject: Modern USN colours Hello, Could anyone tell me which humbrol colours I should use for the current USN Deck Grey, as far as I know FS 36008 is not in their sortiment. A reference for Testor or Tamiya would also be ok. Thanks, Martin Gertenbach -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 26) From: Ned Barnett Subject: Submarine Stamps A bit off-topic, but I was at my "friendly" neighborhood post office yesterday and picked up plate blocks of a new Los Angeles-Class sub stamp, as well as a booklet set of sub stamps - Holland, S-class, Gato class, LA and Ohio classes ... I'm recently returned to stamp collecting (as if I didn't waste enough money on modeling and researching same ). Not surprisingly, I'm interested in military and nautical themed stamps. I mention this because I would be interested in corresponding with anyone with a like-minded interest and a surplus of stamps they could be persuaded to part with reasonably - hell, I'll even build models for stamps (how would that look on a cardboard sign? - I could have a new cottage industry here ... ). Ned -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Felix Bustelo" Subject: Re: Technomodels Hello All, Back from a week's vacation so I am playing catch up. International Maritime Modeling has a page set up listing the kits offered by Tecnomodels of Italy. The page has an e-mail link to Marcello Biava, who is the distributor for these kits. I hope to have some reviews of these kits over the next few months. So check out my website at http://members.tripod.com/~Febus65/imm.htm and click the Kit List button and click on Tecnomodels. Regards, Felix Bustelo Webmaster -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Victor M. Baca" Subject: Plans USCGC Tamaroa Ref. request by Capt. Leonti Model Ship Journal will be running a full general arrangement and lines drawings for USCGC Tamaroa in the September issue. This is part of our "Perfect Storm" Coverage and we'll have official USCG photos of the cutter as well. If interested in subscribing, etc. please contact us off line at modelships@earthlink.net. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for having SMML at your home, why not stop by our home at: http://www.smml.org.uk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume