Subject: SMML VOL 973 Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 02:39:30 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: US Auxiliaries- help! 2: Re: Revised kit list 3: Re: Plans in magazines 4: Re: Barrel be gone 5: Re: Viking 6: PERUVIAN DESTROYER FERRE 7: HMS Campbeltown 8: Re: Service Thread 9: Re: IS Knox class frigate 10: Helo Pads 11: Re: Service Thread ... 12: (HELP) Admiral Hipper Camouflage Schemes 13: Re: Curbing tongue 14: Re: Japanese frigate deck colors 15: Konig, etc 16: Re: 1/600 Airfix Hood 17: Hypa models 18: Re: Airfix 1/600 H M S Hood 19: Vet thread 20: INS Mysore 21: "What if" Hood refit 22: Re: Subject: Guns - size doesn't matter 23: Veterans 24: Re: Vets 25: Planes wanted 26: Italeri Hood -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- SMMLcon Infomation & posts 1: IPMS Nats attendance -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: A message from Commander Series Models, Inc 2: Classic Warships books are printed! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Fernando, Yohan" Subject: US Auxiliaries- help! Hello, I want to add a USN auxiliary vessel to my growing 1/700 auxiliaries collection. I can't come to a decision as to which ship I want next, so I thought I would throw this out to everyone for some help. Can anyone comment on the following kits and give their opinion as to which would be a best all around choice (taking into account price, kit quality, subject matter, etc.)? Loose Cannon's Haskell Class APA ($50) Loose Cannon's Vulcan repair ship ($45) Loose Cannon's Fulton seaplane tender ($45) - does this come with any a/c? WSW's Callaway APA ($53) I've read the Warship reviews on the Callaway and the Haskell and both look very nice and fun to build. Thanks in advance. Yohan Fernando -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: drwells@hogpb.mt.att.com (David R Wells) Subject: Re: Revised kit list John Kutina (JRKutina@webtv.net) wrote: >> Excellent! Thank you for your fine work and dedication. I'm sure it is appreciated by all SMML people. << Thank you for your kind words. If you really like the list, the best thing you can do is to go build a ship model, and tell us what you think of it! (or tell us about ship models you've built before) The list only works if people submit reviews, so thanks to all who have! David R. Wells Former editor and sometime contributor to the List of Ship Kit Reviews "There seems to be something wrong | David R. Wells with our bloody ships today" | AT&T Middletown, NJ Adm. D. Beatty, May 31, 1916 | Email: drwells@hogpa.mt.att.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: John_Impenna@hyperion.com Subject: Re: Plans in magazines Hi All, I have seen many of the ship & model publications over the years that provide "free" ship plans, including many of the fine European & Asian publications, and my observation is that, mostly, you get what you pay for!!! That is until Model Ship Journal, it seems. Happy Modeling John -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Christopher Crofoot Subject: Re: Barrel be gone The discussion on Discarded and destroyed 16" guns prompts me to add this. I believe that some of the barrels were turned into airdrop munitions that became bunker busters during the Persian Excursion of 1991. I remember doing a design study on it at USMA for my systems engineering course. We were supposed to duplicate or better the Air Force program. The barrels were cut, had warheads added and guidances systems were also rigged. They had to be finished within a certain amount of time as to be useful in the Gulf. Perhaps that is where the 16" barrels you're all thinking about went. Chris Crofoot -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: PT191@aol.com Subject: Re: Viking To Ed: It may list Viking, but Squadron told me personally that they do not do business with Viking anymore. T. Garth Connelly -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Leslie Brown" Subject: PERUVIAN DESTROYER FERRE The July 2000 Issue of Warship World contains a superb photograph of the ex-Daring Class destroyer FERRE in December 1999. The ship looks in very good condition but I could find no details in the 2000/2001 edition of Janes Fighting Ships. Does anybody know where I could get more details, in particular drawings or photographs, as I would love to convert one of my old Airfix kits. Thanks in anticipation. Les Brown -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "aa8." Subject: HMS Campbeltown Gentlemen and Ladies Three things 1) I have picked up a Revell HMS Campbeltown and I need references on the what the RN called the Town class. Those fifty destroyers handed over from the US to Britain in 1940. What I need are drawings and/or pictures of them fitted out for their anti-sub role. Showing weapon arrangements etc. I do realise this varied considerably almost from ship to ship as did many other details. Anything would be appreciated. 2) WW2 Vets are starting to get in short supply. If you know one talk to him or her about it.--If they're willing to talk. You'll be amazed what you learn, and remember the reason we can sit and say and write what we like is directly down to the fact that these people were willing to stick their necks out between 39 and 45. This may sound corny to some, but I happen to believe it. 3) Finally as a Brit. To all you Aussie's, Texicans, Alaskans etc. It ain't how big it is. It's what you do with it that counts. Regards Andy Jones -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "John Snyder" Subject: Re: Service Thread "Nam Vet: USS BAINBRIDGE (DLGN-25), Tonkin Gulf Yacht Club, November 1966 - July 1967, January - July 1969. John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys http://www.shipcamouflage.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: IS Knox class frigate >> I didn't say there was anything "revolutionary" about the IS Knox, so it overstates the case to say as much. Whether or not the kit is "excellent" is too early too say because neither brass, decals nor instuctions are available as yet. It has the potential to be a very good kit. The resin portion of the buildup is certainly easy, but a final assessment will have to await the complete kit "in-the-box". << Gotta be careful with words here I guess. I stand corrected that Rob never used the word "revolutionary" in his description of the casting techniques IS used on the Knox. I also never "quoted" Rob. However, the implication was clear (to me anyway) that he really liked the way the parts were cast. So let's quote. "Its most impressive feature is its engineering. There are only a handful of resin parts besides the hull, and they snap into place. The parts are detailed on all sides, which eliminates the necessity of endless flat sanding, mating surfaces that are never really flat, and then filling the resulting seam. This greatly speeds up construction, not to mention making the process more enjoyable." I read the statement I posted yesterday, and I made no mention of the instructions, photo etch or the decals. Nor did I attribute endorsement of them to Rob or anyone else. My statement in no way represents Rob's endorsement for same. I hope I'm not making too much of words I didn't use, but if my statements are going to picked apart word for word I hope I have the right to do the same. My apologies for the words "excellent" and "revolutionary". Those were my words and my interpretation from the quote I read (above). Please don't take this as a statement of anger. It isn't, and I really like Rob and enjoy the Warship web site. I can't wait to read Rob's full review of the Knox frigate. I'll be watching with wallet in hand. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ "Yeah I want Cheesy Poofs" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: tom dean Subject: Helo Pads Hi Gang: Any ideas on methods or products to simulate the rough texture on the helo decks of a modern frigate in 1/96. I have used very fine sand paper for symtex walkways etc but this is rather large for that. I would rather use a liquid product if such a thing exists (other than beer which I hate to waste on anything but it's intended purpose). Any help would be appreciated. Tom Dean Hamilton, Ontario Canada -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Matthew Prager" Subject: Re: Service Thread ... For the thread on service members... I am a Chief Petty Officer in the U.S. Navy, currently stationed in Ingleside, TX (the Mine Warfare Fleet). I entered the service in 1982 and have just a couple of years to go to retirement and a new profession. I've worked in the anti-submarine, intelligence and mine warfare communities and wouldn't trade my time in the navy for anything. MNC(SW) Matthew S. Prager -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: NEVENGER@aol.com Subject: (HELP) Admiral Hipper Camouflage Schemes I am looking for a good detail lay out of the splinter like pattern of the Admiral Hipper. I will need both sides as I plan to use it for my model of the ship. I beleave the dating of the pattern I am looking for to be around March 1941. I have many pictures of the ship from books but nothing that will just lay out the whole pattern for me. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Mike Settle Subject: Re: Curbing tongue >> Am I that obvious? I don't mean to be. I'll make a conscious effort to curb my tongue in the future. It's just that business ethics like screwing modelers out of their money and offering no customer support just grinds my teeth. I've made no secret that I have an ax to grind with them. There I go again! << Although I was never a customer of Viking Models, I agree with Rusty 110%! After all the effort by Rusty to get the word out, I merely felt that it was his priveledge to state what happened to Viking. After all, he was royally screwed by them, and it does give the screwee immense satisfaction to see the screwer get their just desserts. Mike Settle I am not agent #1908 of the non-existent Lumber Cartel (tinlc)tm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: Darren Scannell Subject: Re: Japanese frigate deck colors I currently have a paint sample, from my recent excursion to New York, of the modern Japanese ship paints. I have not done any mixing or paint comparing, but a quick check with my FS fan deck shows the current Japanese deck colour to be a very very close match to FS 26132. If you have a FS colour chart, you can use it to match up the colour to your favourite paint. I didn't get above the main deck on the ship, so I can't say for sure if the colours are the same for the bridge deck, but my experience with modern ships tells me that there is only one deck colour used throughout and the only difference is if there is a wooden,metal or plastic lattice covering the deck of the bridge wing. The Helo deck is the same colour, but it has more antiskid compound mixed in which makes it a little more dark gray at first and makes it fade quicker so that it is lighter than the rest after a month or so. HTH, Darren Scannell PS If you can't get a FS fan deck and have trouble finding the paint, let me know and I will take it to the hobby shop next week and try to find a match. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "Bill Code" Subject: Konig, etc Hello list, Well Ive just sent my check of to GMM for his PE set for Konig. I also will get the WEM set when it comes out...i have an early mark of this kit...no decals or Battle flags...there any out there for this period? Also, Anybody know where I can get a set of plans for SMS Derfflinger as she looked at Jutland?? thank you Bill Code -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: MGross1352@aol.com Subject: Re: 1/600 Airfix Hood If my memory serves an old issue of Warship International has a drawing of the Hood after the proposed rebuilding. Had war not broken out I believe this was scheduled for 1941 and would have been along the lines of the Renown, i.e. new bridge, removal of the armored conning tower and the addition of 16 4.5 between decks enclosed twin gun mounts. I always thought that this would have left the ship undergunned but on the other hand the plan was to add a fair amount of additional armor-the R. N. was fully aware of the ships weakness to plunging fire and the basic doctrine in the event of engaging an enemy battleship was to close the range so she would not be as vulnerable. Hood may have been the pride of the R.N. and she looked graceful and fast but the bottom line is she was a battlecruiser with all the inherent weaknesses of the type. From Mark Grossman in East Brunswick, New Jersey, home of the largest collection of 1/1250 ship models in East Brunswick, New Jersey. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: "katzcom" Subject: Hypa models Hi has any one heard of this company before, two kits on ebay.uk, Hypa model kit MOBILE BAY U.S.S. and Hypa model kit Vella Gulf,U.S.S. both are 1/700 listed as missile cruisers. any info thanks graham Hi Graham, I haven't heard of Hypa, but they sound like they could be re-pops of the Skywave USN CG's. Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: drwells@hogpb.mt.att.com (David R Wells) Subject: Re: Airfix 1/600 H M S Hood Michael Connor wrote >> I was hoping someone could help me with a problem. I have had the Hood since I was a kid. Its over thirty years old I think. Origionally I mucked up the superstructure. About ten years ago I bought the Warspite kit and performed a "What If" on it(the Hood) using the Warspite superstructure. It has been a sort of "work in progress" ever since. Now that I have started again to build models I thought I might finish it. The big problem is I have no secondary armament for it. As it was "rebuilt" at about the same time as the Warspite I didn't think that 5.25" guns would be correct. I as thinking more of 4.5" in open shields. Would anyone have any, say from an old Ark Royal model they would like to part with? Or would anyone have any other suggestions? I have never tried scratch building. << There were a number of different plans for the reconstruction of HMS Hood. I've seen a bunch of semi-speculative ones, and they differ wildly. One thing all of them show is a different set of twin funnels, much like those on HMS Renown after her conversion. I think they were planning on new boilers. I liked those that showed the midships catapult/hangar that so many RN battleships and battlecruisers had. If it were up to me...... Most of them seem to think that the RN would have gone with the 5.25". Some sources show 8 twin mounts, others show 6. Probably the most practical one would have been 10 4.5" twin mounts, like HMS Renown or HMS Queen Elizabeth. None showed 4.5" guns in open shields. The 5.25" twins would be the easiest conversion, since you can steal guns from a KGV.(from either Airfix or Revell) The 1/570 Revell kit is fairly rare, but has better 5.25" guns. Sadly, nobody makes a suitable 4.5" twin in 1/600 scale. A pity, as I've long wanted to do a 1/600 Renown, based on the Airfix Repulse. Yeah, I know, non-trivial, especially given the hull differences, but I wanted to try. Such putative 4.5" mounts would also be good for making a Queen Elizabeth or Valiant from a Warspite kit. (Caroline, are you listening?) David R. Wells "There seems to be something wrong | David R. Wells with our bloody ships today" | AT&T Middletown, NJ Adm. D. Beatty, May 31, 1916 | Email: drwells@hogpa.mt.att.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: "David Miller" Subject: Vet thread I'm a combat vet of Vietnam. `67-`68, I was all over the country as we were one of the first helicopter companies in `nam with Huey C and H models PLUS mini-guns! But I really have NAVY blood, both parents! I'm a life member of both the Navy League and The Naval Institute. I went to `Nam on the Kula Gulf a Commencement Bay class CVE. I've been to the many ship commissioning including the Chancellorsville, Teddy Rosevelt, Abe Lincoln and my favorite, the Wasp! Dave Miller Palm Bay, FL -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: "John Rule" Subject: INS Mysore Mr Owens, If you are photographing the ship and get close enough, maybe you could get a paint chip. John Rule -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: SolidStump@aol.com Subject: "What if" Hood refit Hood was actually refitted with 7 X 4" twin mounts, 8 barrell pompoms etc. Refer to Warship Porfile 19 or some other publication for detail. Anyway, White Ensign has "Professional Resin Upgrade" sets for twin 4" etc. The price of three sets should not break you. According to WP19, the planned "big refit" was to have included robust deck armour, thea blockhouse type bridge you put on, aircraft hangers and the the HA/LA 5.25 in. guns you see on Dido and KGV. Renown's appearance probably comes closest to what was contemplated. Hood refitted like this would have been magnificent! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: RhinoBones@aol.com Subject: Re: Subject: Guns - size doesn't matter >> I read somewhere on some list that people are prototyping a vertical barrel that flings the shell many miles up, and it then drifts on down on fins to the target which is about 60 to 100 miles away. Never did understand the physics so please, no essays. Apparently the big thing for range was height, and getting it there quickly (hence vertical rather than 45 degrees). Unfortunately this would be a very boring thing to model, would not look impressive on a ship and so will probably never be approved for service. << Boring, yes it would be boring to model since (as far as DD 21 is concerned) the beauty of the concept behind the vertical gun system is that it is completely mounted within the hull. Nothing sticks out which would produce an electromagnetic signature or reflection. The proposed munitions for the gun would be an array of precision and/or GPS guided weapons. As demonstrated this past decade (as compared to WW II era strategic bombing campaign), a small number of smart weapons can be devastating. A 155 mm, or even a much smaller weapon, on target can kill just as effectively as a ballistic 16" shell . . . that is if you can get the 16" shell close enough to the target. All this makes me ponder just what could be accomplished with an extended range, rocket assisted, precision guided, 16" naval gun system. Regards, RhinoBones -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: "Mark C Krumrey" Subject: Veterans A few musings and reminiscinces. I served with the Marines in Viet Nam. Was med-e-vaced to the Hospital Ship USS Sanctuary AH-17, was transfered to the USS Valley Forge, LPH-8, one of the last straight deck Essex Class Carriers in service. Served in the reserves and retired a Master Gunnery Sergeant in 1998. Was mobilized during Desert Shield/Storm and served aboard CINCLANT in Norfolk, and was NCOIC of the Casualty and family assistance team with the tenenat Marine Recon Unit in Anchorage Alaska aboard Elmendorf Air Force Base. Served aboard the USS Inchon LPH-12, (Norway) USS Beleau Wood LHA-3 (Korea), USS Kearsarge LHD-3 (Norfolk), USS Dubuque LPD-8 (Korea), and USS Blue Ridge, LCC-19, (Korea). Not to mention tours of the USS New Jersey in 1968 (San Diego), and the USS Missouri in 1987(San Francisco), USCG Cutter in New York, and a Fast Attack Submarine the USS Minneapolis/St. Paul. It was a lot of fun, a lot of hard work, a lot frustration, but best of all, met a hell of a lot of great people, and experiences I will never nor would ever have had been able to accomplish as a civilian. Wish I could do it again! Mark Krumrey New RIchmond WI -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24) From: RhinoBones@aol.com Subject: Re: Vets When I opened Vol 972 I fully expected to see a vast number of Vet responses . . . surprised to find only a few, but a few good ones. Therefore, I'll go next: Service: United States Marine Corp. 1969-1973 Rank: Graduated Sergeant E-5 (Attained the rank of E-5 in the first 30 months of service) Duty: San Diego, Quantico, 3rd MarDiv, 1st Marine Wing, 3rd Marine Wing Wounds: Nothing that shows. Regards, RhinoBones -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 25) From: "Rod Dauteuil" Subject: Planes wanted I've amassed a few Revell USS Lexingtons and am now ready to start a few projects. I'm wondering if anybody out there has extra planes that went with these modernized Essex class carriers. Specifically, I'm looking for some E1 Tracers, S2 Trackers, and SH3 Sea Kings (also can be found in the Revell Forrestal class) to make an ASW carrier. I think at one time some kits also came with F7 Cutlasses, F8 Crusaders, and FJ Furys, and HUP Retrievers. If anybody has any of these planes that they're willing to part with, please contact me off-list to work it out. Thanks, Rod. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 26) From: "Jan-Erik Johansson" Subject: Italeri Hood Hi! I'm building the 1/720 Italeri HMS Hood and I have a few problems. I'm going to use WEM's detail set for the Tamaiya and the Italeri kit and it has something called Degaussing cable. What's that??? In the instructions is says that it should run the length of the ship on both sides. The set instructions only tell you where to put it on the Tamaiya kit. Where should I attach it? I'm from Sweden and I can't find "degaussing cable" in my dictionary. What kind of glue should I use to attach the metal photo-etch parts with? Any other advices about building the Italeri Hood would also be greatly appreciated! Jan-Erik, Sweden -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- SMMLcon Infomation & posts -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "dude" Subject: IPMS Nats attendance JAG will be providing laser cut nametags to all the SMML subscribers who are attending the Nats in Dallas next week. All you have to do is drop by our table and pick up your nametag. It will have your name and SMML on it so other SMMLies can put a name with a face. Marc Flake, I need a current listing of all the "board" members who will be attending please. Remember folks, If you want a nametag you need to let either Marc or I (Tom Gardner) know if you are attending in the next day or so. Gene and myself are looking forward to meeting everyone in BIG D in hot July. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: ironship@usit.net (Jon Warneke) Subject: A message from Commander Series Models, Inc We are pleased to announce that we will be represented by TWO dealers at this years Nationals. Village Hobbies and Victory Models will showcase our Products. Because of our large product line, limited numbers are available so find these Dealers early. Numerous deep discounts will be available but don't wait, supplies are limited. Jon Warneke, my partner, will be available to answer questions and showcase over 10 New Releases for the near future. These are new castings from New Master Patterns not reworked old kits. Kits in 1/350 Scale, 1/160 Scale and the First four releases of our NEW 1/700 Scale. We will also have a limited number of Free German Decal Sets and 1/350 PT Boats Available from both Dealers. GREAT DEALS, FREE SAMPLES, NEW RELEASES. STOP AND SEE US AND OUR RAPIDLY GROWING LINE OF NEW PRODUCTS. Ted Paris President Commander Series Models, Inc. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: SteveWiper@aol.com Subject: Classic Warships books are printed! I just received a small batch of 600 (300 of each) of the two latest books that we were working on. I will have both at the IPMS Nat. Convention in Dallas, July 19-22. They are; Warship Pictorial #7 New Orleans Class Cruisers Warship Pictorial #8 USS Salem CA-139 They will sell for $11.95 each, and I will have a "Show Special" @ $10 each. The New Orleans Class Cruisers book is loaded with 86 photos of those ships and has a 22 inch color center spread of the Minneapolis in color. The "Paint Guys" will have a great debate over this one. The USS Salem book is packed with a lot of drawings and photos and also has a color center spread drawing of the Salem in 1/400 scale. Next up will be the Yorktown Class Carriers and the Sims/Benson/Gleaves Destroyers, hopefully by this December. Thanks, Steve www.classicwarships.simplenet.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for having SMML at your home, why not stop by our home at: http://www.smml.org.uk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume