Subject: SMML VOL 976 Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 02:45:24 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: "That's not a ..., that's a ...!" - a cautionary tale 2: Re: Long stanchions on railings 3: Re: Vet thread 4: Re: Vet Thread 5: Superstructure materials 6: Re: Emabrassing ship names 7: ANZAC Humor? (an oxymoron) 8: Vet thread 9: Re: Model Shipwright 10: Re: Reheat Punch & Die 11: Humo(u)r and the Americans 12: Mike and American Humor 13: Yanks & Limeys 14: Re: Great Eastern Riveters 15: Re: VET 16: Flare Ups 17: Stretched Sprue v Fishing line 18: Re: C HUGHES & CHICKSANDS 19: Punch and die sets 20: Re: Humor 21: Re: Airfix H M S HOOD 22: Re: Vets 23: Re: Railings 24: Re: Veterans 25: Vet data 26: Good site for Model Plans and lets be nice 27: Hidden agendas? 28: Re: Warship Pictorial 29: Re: used barrels 30: Re: used barrels 31: vet thread 32: Veterans 33: Re: Hood 34: Vet data, Konig question 35: Peruvian destroyer Ferre 36: Apocalypse Now? 37: Re: Service Thread 38: Vet thread 39: Forrestal colours 40: Re: Service thread 41: Veterans and Vitriol 42: Troopship modelling and 1/600 helicopters 43: Möwe Class Torpedoboote 44: Re: service thread 45: Thanks to Joel Labow 46: Vets (again)! 47: Re: National Sense of Humor/Vet Thread 48: Re: Vets -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: 10th Annual New York Ship & Boat Model Festival 2: IPMS Weather report 3: NEW JULY UPDATE -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Poutre, Joseph A" Subject: "That's not a ..., that's a ...!" - a cautionary tale As a testimonial to careful research, I offer a little incident that happened this past week. I've mentioned my "Big Project" in the past - building an entire battlegroup centered around USS New Jersey based on a photo in the book by Paul Stillwell. Nine ships, big diorama, great fun, lots of work, donate to a museum someday and all that. Well, I obtained a blowup of the original picture a few months ago, to be framed and displayed over the diorama. When I first received it, I quickly glanced at it and put it away. Last week, I brought it out to show it off, and took a good look at it. Much to my surprise, I discovered what was described in the text as the Spru-can USS Fletcher was actually the Kidd class USS Chandler. Oi vey! Fortunately I hadn't done much work on that model, and started converting it using an article from an old Fine Scale Modeler. Of course, a couple days later, I checked another reference, and found that the article in FSM described a 1990's version of the Kidds, and in 1986 (the date of the photo) they didn't look the same, superstructure-wise. Now I'm doing it right. Then, something tickled the back of my brain. I stopped my cat poking me, and took out the photo again, in daylight, with a magnifying glass. "Hmm - well, those are obviously the NJ and Long Beach, and an AOR. Those two are Merrill and Chandler. OK, in the back we have two OHPs, a Knox, and a Bronstein. That's right. Oh, wait a sec..." Pull out reference, use magnifying glass. "GAH! THAT'S A BROOKE!" What the text called USS Bronstein was actually a Brooke-class FFG. Grumble. Luckily I hadn't ordered the Bronstein model yet, but now I need a Brooke class FFG in 1/700, and I don't know of any. I checked Rajen's (and David's and my) list, and the only one out there is the Monogram box scale. So, the moral of the story is, always check you references! Joe Poutre Co-webmaster, Battleship New Jersey Historical Museum Society http://www.bb62museum.org/ Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Mark Shannon" Subject: Re: Long stanchions on railings >> I've got a question concerning railings. I'm working on my airfix Warspite and some plans I have feature a device on the railings for which I'm uncertain of the need to represent. I understand how the conventional railing was made 'clear' for action but this concerns a second higher stanchion (perhaps about 8'-10' ft tall) that was spaced about every 4th conventional stantionl. It had a wire running through it at the top of the stanchion. It doesn't appear to be a canopy support since it runs the circumference of the ship. My question is what is it? Would it have appeared during wartime? I've seen it more commonly on predreadnaught class ships so perhaps it wasn't standard equipment by the time of WWII. << I think you are describing the supports for the deck awnings. These were often rigged right across the main decks in peacetime (for example, see the pictures of the U.S. battleline at the very beginning of the Pearl Harbor attack. These awnings figure prominently on the Nevada and Arizona, among others. In WWI they were kept aboard British ships, at least, and you will sometimes see them in pictures of ships in the Dardanelles campaign. I have not seen them on any post Pearl Harbor attack picture, nor any of the British ships in WWII after 1940 or so that I can recall -- probably viewed as additional deck clutter and more flammables aboard and not rigged due to the way even 'safe' harbours could suddenly become the front lines. Mark -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Al Superczynski Subject: Re: Vet thread US Army Signal Corps, 13 June 1966 - 1 February 1987, retired as a Master Sergeant. I was in fixed station (long-haul), as opposed to tactical, telecommunications. Never assigned to Viet Nam but did serve two "combat" tours in Bangkok. ;-p Also spent some time in Germany (twice), Japan, and Hawaii, with periods of Temporary Duty to lots of other interesting places...... I spent a lot of time with the Defense Communications Agency and was aboard a boomer once at Faslane, Scotland (Holy Loch) for a couple days to work on a crypto equipment problem. Got a lot of quizzical looks from the sailors, who were undoubtedly wondering what an Army NCO was doing on their boat.... Al http://www.up-link.net/~modeleral -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: NAVYDAZE@aol.com Subject: Re: Vet Thread Vietnam tour aboard the USS KITTY HAWK in 3rd Division in 1969 & 70 and later the Deck Department Yeoman. Also a year in drydock with the ship in Bremerton Washington. The "Hawk" was a darn good ship. Interesting to read the other comments and see who was on the other end of the UNREPS at the same time as my tour such as Samual Pullig on the Mars Mike Donegan NAVYDAZE Naval & Aviation Artist -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Robert and Janis Leonti Subject: Superstructure materials Shane, As a rank amateur to ship modeling, I would like to know what would be the material of choice for building superstructures and decks? This may be a simple inquiry but I have to start somewhere. I plan on building an ATF tug. Thanks, Bob Leonti -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Emabrassing ship names After regarding the post yesterday about the HMS Beaver, I wonder if the powers that be give any consideration to the crew who will be serving on these vessels. I know you just can't disallow a name because it could be embarrassing to the crew (USS Cowpens for example), but geeeez, I hope they at least consider that when naming ships. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ "Yeah I want Cheesy Poofs" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: Ned Barnett Subject: ANZAC Humor? (an oxymoron) A nautical story, but not a "sea story" so I don't have to begin with "No S*it" ... New Zedlanders have no sense of humor - a trait shared apparently by all the Colonials (as well as their Empire masters - a humorless bunch of sods). My ol' man, a lofty Ensign (for you Brits and Colonials, that's like a Subaltern) at the time, was knocking a few back in an Ausie pub during the late great unpleasantness (#2); in a discussion, he pointed out the inherent illogic of calling the letter "zed" but the country New "Zea"Land. By the end of three or four pints, he had the Kiwis calling their own country New Zedland - which (IMO) explains the Maoiris, the socialist policies and the rain in the Antipodes. Now, no more about Yank humor - we invented the stuff (I mean, the Boston Tea Party was just some Robin Williams Stand-Up Comedy skit that got out of hand). Ned (former comedy writer for Gerry House) Barnett Hi Ned, ROTFLMSAO Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Loren Perry Subject: Vet thread I enlisted in the U.S. Navy in April 1966, went to boot camp at Great Lakes, Illinois. Assigned as an Aviation Machinists Mate at Naval Air Station Oceana (Virginia) where I spent the next year patching up broken F-8's, F-4's, A-4's, T-33's, C-47's, CH-19's, SH-2's and other aircraft. Also spent four months (TAD) at Stumpy Point Naval Bombing Range in Dare County, North Carolina where I operated tracking equipment. Lots of fun watching simulated "over the shoulder" nuclear bomb deliveries executed by A-6's and low-level skip-bombing by F-4's. Won a case of Jack Daniels on a bet from an overconfident F-4 pilot who thought he could score three consecutive bulls-eyes (He got two.) Next assigned to F-8 "C" school at NAS Jacksonville and sent to Naval Station Roosevelt Roads in Puerto Rico to VC-8 where we operated and maintained radio-controlled target aircraft: F9F-6 Cougars, T-33's and Ryan Firebees. Also maintained P2V-5 Neptune drone control aircraft, T-28 drone control aircraft, and DF-8A Crusader drone control aircraft. Had more fun watching the coming and goings of NOLO (NO Live Operator) planes including arrested landings on the runway of semi-controllable, shot-up, incoming aircraft. Left Roosy Roads Jan 1970. Went to Airframe and Powerplant school on GI Bill, earned A&P license, then commercial pilot's license in 1972. Re-enlisted in USN Temac (temporary active duty) recruiting program and served as a Navy Recruiter from 1976 through 1982 in Orlando and Jacksonville, Florida, and Los Angeles, California. Left active duty to work for Challenge Publications' Scale Ship Modeler magazine. Loren Perry -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "J. London" Subject: Re: Model Shipwright For those waiting for the June issue (#110) to arrive it will not be mailed out until July 29th due to the printer going into receivership. A new printer has been found and things should be back on schedule after #110. Michael London -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "Christopher Hughes" Subject: Re: Reheat Punch & Die I bought one at the UK IPMS Nats some years ago and it's always in use... I can't speak for the Waldron set, but I use my Reheat on ship, aircraft and armour models. Chris PS: Shane, what rattles your chain then?? - Historic dig at an "Export" ;0) (Grabbing Kevlar and diving for bottom of deep trench...) Hi Chris, Tis nice to see that you are in such fear of my comebacks, that you're already cowering ;->. As for chains, well the Mistress thinks they come in handy occasionally ;-þ Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Jean-Paul Binot" Subject: Humo(u)r and the Americans If Shane is kind enough to allow me to intrude in a crossfire... I work for a British-American firm and have met many British and American colleagues, both professionally and privately (plus an assortment of Canadians, Australians and South Africans. No New Zealander so far, I am afraid). If I may venture a comment, it is true that many British (and to some extent other Europeans) are convinced that Americans are seriously deprived of any sense of humour. As far as I can say, this is entirely unfounded. Ameicans DO have a very strong sense of humour (humor, that is). But it is a different sort of humour. Just for the sake of being brief (this being a list for modelling, and not rambling on things) I believe that in the American culture one puts much more value on facts than most Europeans do (call it the CNN approach, if you like). That would tend to lead Americans to take things at face value, even litterally, and only in a second analysis discount it for perceived bias etc. Europeans tend to do the opposite. And this is for the neverending joy of my British colleagues who throw sarcasm and irony at my American colleagues, without them being able to reciprocate in kind, or even sometimes pinpoint what exactly is going wrong in the conversation. American humour is all around us in the media, in TV shows, movies, cartoons (Peanuts, Dilbert, Calvin&Hobbes are my favourites), etc. Personally, I enjoy all sorts of humour (inasmuch as I can detect it), and believe that there is no such thing as cultural superiority. Only the (misguided) perception of it... Sorry for straying out of topic for once. Jean-Paul Binot -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "John Rule" Subject: Mike and American Humor >> Shane - who enjoys taking the piss outa both Yanks & Poms - mainly because it's soooo easy to do ;-þ << Agreed. Mind you, I don't know where you come off using the nom-de-guerre, Shane, when we all know that all Aussies are called Bruce. "Right Bruce." "Yeah! Bruce." Sincerely, Jock -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "Michael Dunn" Subject: Yanks & Limeys Loren, Can I choose death by Mistress Lorna? Jerry, I've had MUCH better offers......... ;-) Hi Mike, Look mate, Death by Mistress Lorna is a privilege only granted to the deserving ;-þ Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: VONJERSEY@aol.com Subject: Re: Great Eastern Riveters I believe that this story is a mere legend. Patrick Beaver's illustrated book "The Big Ship" (1969) while not the definative work, states as much (page 136). He goes on to say that thorough research of the Liverpool (where she was scrapped) newspapers of the period fail to mention what would have been sensational news. And this makes sense...while I'm no riveter, I can't help but think that one (or actually two people) engaged in such a profession would notice that they were being sealed in. While Great Eastern was a very unique ship...this incident would make it more so because I have never heard of this sort of thing happening any time before or since. I think the "curse" legend just highlights the sad truth that all who invested in her lost money...including the people who scrapped her. It's a shame. P.S. I would love to get my greedy little mitts on a model kit. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: SantMin@aol.com Subject: Re: VET Well, I guess I gotta put my 2 cents in. I too am a vet, but not navy. I was an Air Traffic Controller in the USAF through the 1950's. My connection to ship modeling: 1. Been building ship models since before many on this list (I would suspect a large number) were born. Started in the 1940's. 2. I've owned and sailed one sort or sailing craft or another all those years too (including my Air Force time). 3. Retired after 30 years of programming computers for the US Navy. 4. Now run a business in which I build models (including several ships) for museums and industry. Life Member US Air Force Association Life Member US Naval Institute Life Member American Legion Long Time Member Nautical Research Guild Long Time Member IPMS USA Remember, just like some navy vets like to build aircraft models, and many non-railroaders build railroad models, there are MANY non-navy people that build ship models. Cheers, Bob Santos -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "John Rule" Subject: Flare Ups Oops. Another flare up. Again for no other reason than some ill chosen words. Unfortunately with a method of communication, limited to the keyboard, flare ups are to be expected periodically. The keyboard does not recognize voice inflections, nods, winks, smirks or any other indicators of mirth, jocularity, humour or humor. Conventions are great for clearing up flare ups, because at them you can tell someone, "You're a stupid bugger", and he or she can tell from your tone of voice or facial expression whether you mean that they are a stupid bugger or you really mean they are a stupid bugger. Try saying, "You say potato, and I say potato: You say tomato and I say tomato". (Opening lines of a famous song). It neither makes sense spoken or written without the proper pronunciation or inflection. I'm glad Shane nipped the present flare up in the bud before everyone involved gets labeled stupid buggers. The only thing in this posting that relates to ships or the navy is..................................bugger. (Who's turn is it in the barrel tonight anyway?" John -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: "Geoffrey Hanson" Subject: Stretched Sprue v Fishing line I have returned to modelling about a year ago after about 30 years, renewing an interest in Naval Warships. One of my immediate problems was rigging and as a fisherman realised that nylon line could be obtained in diameters that could be true to scale, 1/350 being my chosen scale, the problem of colour is best resolved using nylon dyes which are obtainable in England under the name Dylon from hardware stores. this has the benefit of not increasing the diameter, although still leaves a sheen to the nylon which is best cured with a thin spray of matt clear My first post to smml, great idea and has been helpful to catch up with the state of the hobby. Regards Geoff Hanson -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: WRPRESSINC@aol.com Subject: Re: C HUGHES & CHICKSANDS I understand that not too far from Chicksands there was an INTERESTING incident that took place about twenty years ago outside the gate of the nearby USAF base; Unknown or uncorrelated target? Can you talk about that? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: "Jens H. Brandal" Subject: Punch and die sets The Waldron punch and die set containts six pieces, and really is a superb quality that gives perfectly round discs or holes. They are however very expensive. The Reheat set contains fourteen pieces of various diametres from avout half a millimetre in diameter to three mm in diameter (approximately). The edges of the holes are a little more ragged, but that could be just my technique. They are perfectly adequate for my purposes though. I believe the price of the Waldron set is higher in Europe, so fo my money, I would choose the Reheat set. Treat them with care, and you will enjoy this tool for a long time. You may not find a use for it every day, but it is one of those items that are indispensible once you get hooked. Jens -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: WRPRESSINC@aol.com Subject: Re: Humor Who has lived Down Under and who came to realise thats it's a place where all the men are men and so are half the women. The beer is not all that good either. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: WRPRESSINC@aol.com Subject: Re: Airfix H M S HOOD Don't do that. Not enough guns, they went to the Didos, fit 4.5" instead. PS: Paint it in a ficticious Admiralty Disruptive camouflage pattern. Tell them that I told you to do it. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: WRPRESSINC@aol.com Subject: Re: Vets I know that there is a person on this list that served in an Australian cruiser in the Med in 1941. Please speak to us. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: WRPRESSINC@aol.com Subject: Re: Railings Canopy support baby. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24) From: "Jim Johnson" Subject: Re: Veterans I too am a veteran. I joined the Navy Reserve two days before I got my draft notice. I went to boot camp and Machinist Mate (MM) school at Great Lakes (a large training base north of Chicago). I went on two years active duty in 1967. I started at Philadelphia Navel Yard. While there I saw the USS New Jersey undergoing modernization. I was assigned to the USS America CVA-66, which was in the Med at the time. I was flown to Naples Italy and was flown aboard on the COD plane, a C-1A named Miss America. We went back to Norfolk and left in early '68 for a Westpac (read Vietnam) cruise. We went completely around the world, crossed the equator 4 times, crossed the international date line, went around the Cape and around the Horn. We had stop overs in Rio, Subic bay, Hong Kong, Japan, Sydney, Wellington, not to mention Spain and Italy the year before. We got hazardous duty pay, no income tax, free postage etc., I had it made. What did I do? Complain, complain, complain! Couldn't wait till my time was up. It's true what they told me at the time. When you're in, you concentrate on the bad things. When you get out, all you remember are the good things. Jim Johnson MM2 (ret) Order of Magellan, Golden Dragon, Shellback PS: even though I don't agree with Mike, some of us are proving him right. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 25) From: "John Sheridan" Subject: Vet data 1981-1985 USAF 305th AFREW Grissom AFB Indiana Photographer 1987-1990 MASS ANG 101st FIS Otis AFB Massachusetts F-106 Gun Camera Technician F-15 AVTR Technician John Sheridan www.shipcamouflage.com I am not Unit# 631 of the Lumber Cartel (tinlc) If there were a Lumber Cartel, the last place on earth I would look for it would be: http://come.to/the.lumber.cartel -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 26) From: NEVENGER@aol.com Subject: Good site for Model Plans and lets be nice OK boys I have been reading about who does not like what and who else. Lets keep it nice. I personnally like this site and this fighting can only kill it for the rest of us. If any one is interested one of my favorite sites that I have purchased plans from is: http://lonestar.texas.net/~glover/george.html The plans are drawn in 1/144 scale and was ment for the RC combat clubs who have tight specs required. From the 2 sets of plans that I have I would say the quality is from fair to excellent. Fair being good enough to build by. Excellent being good enough to frame on the wall (which I did). The prices are also very good. Most plans are only $15.00 (U.S. currency). -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 27) From: "Michael Dunn" Subject: Hidden agendas? Victor, Victor...... >> I had to get out my fire extinguisher to douse the flames fanned by a fellow named Dunn. We have a difference of opinion regarding ship's plans as shown in some magazines. I respect his, he needs to look up the meaning of the word. The internet has fostered a feeling among some that common decency and respect have no place in this new form of communication. Bah! << Flames? My mail? No, just putting the record (confused by you) straight. As to respect - you have non towards magazines that are long-established, so why should I have any towards a jumped-up pip-squeak? >> Maybe there are those who feel threatened by our new journal. Believe me, we only compete against our own last issue. Now, as to who's shooting off at the mouth, Dunn stepped into something he was not really equipped to defend. There is more than meets the eye with Mr. Dunn's recent tirades against those of us who are trying our best to offer good reference material for the scale ship modeler. The real gentleman has no need to use belittlling tones, nationalism and innuendo to mask his weak position or hidden agenda. << Threatened? By what? I see nothing threatening at all there......but why do you obfuscate the issues again? I made valid points - you have muddied the waters by bringing in items in a post that was NOT about you........ As to hidden agendas - well, I have no interest in either Traplet or Nexus, and no relatives, etc, working for them. Unlike you with your veiled references to "this magazine" (your words in a previous post) that I was commenting on - come, come, let's not be shy - YOUR magazine I was commenting on. So why hide behind words - unless, of course, the agenda to be hidden is your own.....? Mike -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 28) From: "John Sheridan" Subject: Re: Warship Pictorial >> I'm in Silicon Valley this weekend, and took the time to go to D&J Hobbies (as was recommended). Every bit as good as promised. Picked up five copies of WP that were on the shelves, and to say that I'm impressed would be a gross understatement. Steve, as a former IPMS Journal editor (and lifelong magazine editor/publisher in "real life") I have to say I am VERY impressed. Well done! << Just to let you know, Book #7 New Orleans Class Cruisers and Book #8 CA-139 USS Salem arrived at my doorstep this morning. Both books are quite excellent as usual. Now you only need 3 more books to be up-to-date with your collection..... John Sheridan www.shipcamouflage.com I am not Unit# 631 of the Lumber Cartel (tinlc) If there were a Lumber Cartel, the last place on earth I would look for it would be: http://come.to/the.lumber.cartel -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 29) From: "Tim Perry" Subject: Re: used barrels The bomb you are describing is the GBU-28. check out: www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/smart/gbu-28.htm www.danshistory.com/lgb.html www.af.mil/photos/May1999/19990428-f-2171a-025.html www.specialoperations.com/Focus/bunker.html amongst others. Just type in GBU-28 into your favourite search engine. My, aren't humans clever when it comes to doing each other in!! Tim Perry -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 30) From: URUDOFSKY@aol.com Subject: Re: used barrels Three cheers to the person who mentioned the Watervliet Arsenal on the Hudson River in up-state New York! This installation is under constant threat of being closed. The historic arsenal represents one of the last surviving fundamental and essential institutions of expertise in US gunnery. It cannot be reactivated once these experts are laid off and dispersed to mediocre job. Ulrich H. Rudofsky -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 31) From: Texxn5@aol.com Subject: vet thread Just to throw in the vet thread. I was impressed with the number of vets tied to the Viet Nam era. This was an interesting time that I'm sure that many of us would not like to repeat but not trade for anything. I joined the USNR in 1969 in Little rock Arkansas (I'm from Alice Texas and had never been to Little Rock. I went to a Military prep school in San Marcos Texas and graduated in 1967. Went to college for about a year and a half before I flunked out -- too many parties. At that time I was too old to get into the Air Force Reserve so had to join the "Canoe Club". (They were taking anyone that breathed). went to boot camp at Great Lakes, Ill. Then went aboard the USS Havre PCF 56 at Great Lakes. Went back to Little rock to make reserve meetings until 2 years active duty in 1970. went to class A School in Great Lakes then aboard US John F Kennedy CVA 67. Went to Gitmo then the Med. One great experience was getting launched off the bird farm in an F-4 Phantom and then to get to land on it again. It's small from the air in a crotch rocket. I wouldn't trade that for anything. Got out in Ishmir Turkey in 1972 and then was USNR for 3 more years (and aboard the USS Lexington CV 16) getting out in 1975. Went back to school and got a BBA from Texas A& I Univ. in 75 and an MBA from Sam Houston Univ. in 1985. Now I'm a dirty old independant oil producer from TEXAS. Current Project --- deciding whether to build the USS John F Kennedy in 1/72 or 1/96 scale. I'm having difficulty in locating aircraft in 1/96. I will probably start the project this month in 1/72. I need plans (I have photographs). Thanks to all who submitted suggestions a couple of months ago when I began my research. I also need a copy of the Detail and Scale for the JFK. thanks John -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 32) From: ROneil0856@aol.com Subject: Veterans I was active duty USN from 1974 to my retirement in 1996. Served both overseas and ashore. Visited beautiful Austrailia during four port visits in one exciting cruise in 1990! My sea tours included USS Texas (CGN-39) and COMSEVENTHFLT/COMUSNAVCENT embarked USS Blue Ridge (LCC-19). I was aboard the Texas during the Gulf of Sidra incident in 1981 and aboard the Blue Ridge during the Gulf War. Rich O'Neil, CTOC(SW), RET. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 33) From: Ted0330@aol.com Subject: Re: Hood I missed the notes about the Airfix Hood. Where can I get a copy? I've also heard about a 1:350 styrene kit of the Hood. Any ibfo? Thanks, Ted Hi Ted, The notes on the Hood will be up in the archives (see SMML url at the bottom). ICM is releasing a 1/350 HMS Hood, although exactly when is anybody's guess. Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 34) From: basilisk Subject: Vet data, Konig question Hi, just joined, thought I'd add to the vet data and ask a question. Enlisted 31 Jan 89 Machinist Mate 'A', Nuc Power School, S3G prototype July 90 Machinery Division, USS Spadefish (SSN-668), MM2 July 91 Appointed USNA, Midshipman Jan 94 Dis-appointed USNA May 94 Machinery Division, USS Cheyenne (SSN 773), MM2 Jan 97- out, currently live in Wallkill, NY and work as a Plant Operator, Indian Point 2 Nuclear Station. Well, thats me in a nutshell. On more important matters, I after reading several posts on the Konig kit, I am confused as to the bridge layout. Warship pictorial #37 says that Konig had an extra Admirals bridge to fufill duties as a flagship. This would lead me to believe that the extra top bridge level in question is correct for all Konig fits, but incorrect at anytime for her sisters. Can anyone shed more light on this one? Ryan A. Pelkey -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 35) From: "John Rodriguez Asti" Subject: Peruvian destroyer Ferre Leslie Brown wrotes: >> The July 2000 Issue of Warship World contains a superb photograph of the ex-Daring Class destroyer FERRE in December 1999. The ship looks in very good condition but I could find no details in the 2000/2001 edition of Janes Fighting Ships. Does anybody know where I could get more details, in particular drawings or photographs, as I would love to convert one of my old Airfix kits. << Dear Leslie: Several months ago I sent to Warship World editor the photograph of the destroyer Ferré that has been published in the last number of that magazine. That ship at the moment is in service, and in these days she is participating in the exercise "Neptune" with other ships of the Peruvian fleet. Regarding drawings and photographs, I have many material of this and other peruvian ships, and I can send it to you, and for that, please send me to my e-mail your postal address. Sincerely yours, John Rodriguez Asti Lima, PERU -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 36) From: Floridian2day@aol.com Subject: Apocalypse Now? While searching the SMML Archive Index, I noticed something peculiar, some might say downright frightning, the index ends at Volume 1000. What will happen once we reach volume 1000? Could this be the one thing computer engineers and scientist overlooked in an attempt to thwart the Y2K bug? Will this mean the end of all civilization!!!!? Should I have not sold my gasoline generator, shot guns, pallet-o-spam??!!! OH THE HUMANITY!!!! Hi, On reaching Volume 1000, to the sound of "The ride of the Valkyries", all existing volumes will go up in a puff of cyber smoke. We will then start afresh from issue 1. Thereby making room for more yellow turret, Flower, Yamato, judging, research threads. Regards, Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 37) From: Lump518176@aol.com Subject: Re: Service Thread For what its worth: USN 1983-1988 (4 Active+ 1 Active Reserve) Got out as a Hospital Corpsman , HM-2 (Petty Officer 2nd Class) Saw "action" at NavHosp Great Lakes...Great battles on Rush ST., Chicago NavHosp San Diego.......Keeping the Reds from taking the Zoo Grunt Corpsman, Camp Pendleton...combating commie V.D. Im still having night sweats/flashbacks after that last one! Building models ships is better than living on one, or so Ive been told. Jerry Phillips -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 38) From: "JAmes McCormick" Subject: Vet thread OK, US Navy, 1984-1988., Discharged a DK3. 4 years in Bayonne, NJ at a personnel office. Yeah, join the navy...see Bayonne. I sometimes felt like Bill Murray in that SNL skit, but I got to meet some truly great folks, one fella came in on leave to get paid, wearing bandages and casts, turns out the ship's tab on his peacoat said USS Stark, which had recently been on the wrong end of a pair of Iraqi missiles. Anyhow, about 15 people were ahead of him to be paid, and to a man(officer, enlisted, Navy and Marine), they all stood aside for him. The sevices take care of their own. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 39) From: Mjojrr@aol.com Subject: Forrestal colours I am currently doing a 1/800 model of the Forrestal. On the box the color pattern for the flight deck is a light gray, with a darker gray for the landing strip. I look in the Forrestal web site and noticed the deck was all a dark gray. What is the proper colors for the flight deck, and what is the type of model paint and color I should use? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 40) From: DILIANE@aol.com Subject: Re: Service thread I guess I missed the part asking for former veterans. I never had the chance to serve during any of the big conflicts. However, after Uncle Sam decided I had attended enough schools, I first went on the Enterprise for a WestPac (76). Then it was on to recruiting for a short time. After that to the east coast and an electronic support group. We did both coasts, and in 3 1/2 years there I rode at least 13 different types of ships. Two of those were Canadians, so we weren't limited to just our navy. In as an E-2 and out as an E-6 in 5 years. Still love telling those sea stories! Not blowing my own horn, I hope, but its nice to have the camaraderie. Even served on a number of Frams. Most memorable part was (of course) meeting my bride. :-)) Jim Campbell Chippewa Falls, WI -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 41) From: "Norman C. Samish" Subject: Veterans and Vitriol I'd like to vote against the vitriol that has been popping up here lately. SMML is a fascinating list because of the gentlemanly discourse of a congenial bunch of devoted modelers and naval experts. It loses its charm when the name calling starts, and the reason I read it evaporates. I admire someone who, when insulted, ignores the insult. That's the test of a gentleman who controls himself, and marks him as someone I respect. My military service: I joined the Air National Guard in 1946 in Spokane, with a P51 "Mustang" squadron (beautiful airplanes). They soon converted to F86's and we were mobilized for the Korean War in 1950. We were sent to England because the powers-that-be wanted to guard against possible Russian aggression in Europe (or maybe it was fear of the North Vietnamese invading England). I married there and that was my only combat experience. I was discharged in 1954, went to college on the GI Bill, and became an engineer. Now I'm retired and I'm going to start on a WEM 1/700 FL---R model just as soon as I get my retirement Pleasure Palace built. Long Live SMML! Norm Samish -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 42) From: Björn Bäcklundx1bmQ= Subject: Troopship modelling and 1/600 helicopters Hi. I'm reliving part of my youth right now. 25 years ago I built the Airfix 1/600 Queen Elizabeth 2, and now I found such a kit again. I have started on a Troopship conversion for the Falkland conflict. I now need advise on where to find some Sea King helicopters in this scale. I reckon this could mean buying a shipmodel just to get them, but is there one? I'm also looking for camouflage schemes for RMS Olympic (or Mauritania) as a troopship during WW1. I have big trouble to find something useful that show both sides of the ships camo. I really like those "wild" camouflage during WW1. Bjorn Backlund, Sweden -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 43) From: "Daniel Taylor" Subject: Möwe Class Torpedoboote Hi All I wonder if anyone can help? I would like to build a 1/76 model of a Möwe Class Torpedoboote (a type of Light Fleet Destroyer used by the DKM during WWII). Consequently, I could do with some advice on where I could get plans to a reasonable scale and details on camouflage for the early 1942 period. Specifically, the project is to build Jaguar at the time of the St Nazaire raid. As a bit of background, Campbeltown is already under way (in her last fitting, trying hard to resemble a Torpedoboote), along with Fairmiles type B & C and a 1941 Vosper fitted out as Wynne's Weapons. Thanks in advance for any help. If you have plans that may be of help, I'll happily pay for any reproduction. Dan Taylor -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 44) From: Subject: Re: service thread >> For Kevin...get your son assigned to a carrier... they have Tiger Cruises; be thankful, he got through the Academy and is in the Navy. My son got bumped because he (at age 13) had been on doctor prescribed prozac for six-months. Marijuana and booze would have been OK. << Ray, Sorry your son got bumped. I didn't think about the carrier thing - thanks. And, not only am I thankful, but I have to keep resewing the buttons on my vest at least once a week. Kevin -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 45) From: Subject: Thanks to Joel Labow I wanted to say a public thanks to Joel Labow. I was missing a couple pages of instructions from my McCain DDG and he was very kind to copy his and send them to me. Nice to have such a comeraderie on SMML. Joel - my thanks and gratitude. Also wanted to thank John Sheridan who was going to email a copy of his also. Guys, I owe you one. Kevin Wenker -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 46) From: "Lambert and Keel" Subject: Vets (again)! Sea Scouts, Sea Cadets. (Fleet Review aboard HMS Theseus -1953). Joined RNVR London Division. Ton Class M/S (HMS Thames) to Holland and France in 1955. MTRE at Portsmouth Barracks the week sea training HMS Flint Castle 1955. Called up for N/S 20/2/56. Class leader and then selected for SSM(E). (Superheated stoker). HMS Sluys (Battle Class). HMS Theseus for Musketeer - Suez Landings Nov 1956. Crash draft to HMS Albion. Round the world trip (Good on yer Ausies), N.Z. Far East, S/Africa and S/America. (Signed on for 9 years). Killicks Course at Sultan on return (3 years). Sat Fleet Board for POM(E) (Stoker P.O). Killick of the mess HMS Scott engaged on East coast survey. (Loads of sea time in the North Sea) Picked up my acting P.O. aboard her. Then flight out to Singapore to recommission HMS Bulwark (The Rusty B). Brought her home, did the refit at Guzz and took her back out. Demobbed 20/2/65. Joined Met Police 22/2/65. (But thats another story)! I have since done sea time as 2nd (there were two) and 3rd engineer (there were three this time) on HDML 1387 Medusa -a real Vet. For the D Day commemoration -1994. (16 days). (Under UK rules none of this counts)! Do I qualify as a Vet. or just getting old? John Lambert ex LD/11187 and P/K 960990 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 47) From: "James owen" Subject: Re: National Sense of Humor/Vet Thread In SMML Vol 975, a contributer wrote; >> snipped by Listmaster << I subscribe to this newsgroup because I make model ships, I make model ships because I am interested in them and because I have a very stressful career. Making model ships and reading about them allows me to unwind. Whilst there is a need for social interaction on the net there is an increasing trend towards self-praise and insult, poorly diguised as humour,using the smiley face as an all-excusing shield. I, for one, want no part of it if it continues like this. Hi James, et al, Jerry's post made it into the last night's SMML, because Lorna & I thought it was meant more as a humourous comment, rather than a serious post. Hence we let it thru, see my comments in another post from last issue. If we had believed it was meant in seriousness, I doubt it would have gone in. If anyone would like to have a go at anyone, have a go at the Listmaster who let the post thru - NOT the poster. I am not infallible & therefore can make errors of judgment. The effects of this can easily be exacerbated by the wide variety of SMMLies in different countries, with different creeds etc. Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 48) From: Kdg345@aol.com Subject: Re: Vets I am a vet. Enlisted 2/51 during the Korean War. Got my draft notice in boot camp. Boot camp at San Diego, duty on USS Yancey AKA-93 with six trips to Japan and Korea. We carried all of the needed supplies such as toilet paper, tires and dixie cups. Yeoman school in San Diego. Last year I was on the recommissioning crew of the USS Hancock CVA-19. We even had chiefs that had never had sea duty getting sea sick. Hancock was recommissioned in Bremerton, WA where there is a model of her in the local museum. That assignment brought me back to live in Washington State after college. Discharged 1/55 as YN2. Retired 6 years ago as an Engineer with Boeing. Ken Groom Kent, WA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Felix Bustelo" Subject: 10th Annual New York Ship & Boat Model Festival Hello All, I would like to mention that the 10th Annual New York Ship & Boat Model Festival will take place on August 5 and 6 at the South Street Seaport Museum. This is a non-competitive model show which attracts a wide variety of ship modelers and model types. You will see wooden ship models, R/C models, plastic and resin models in a variety of scales and both sail and steam. It is a fun day and you can see some 1:1 scale ships that are part of the Museum's collection as well as some models in the exhibit hall. The Museum has a huge model of the Queen Mary that must be at least 15 feet long. I will be a participant in the Festival on Sunday August 6th only. So if you decided to visit the Festival and Museum on that day, please stop by and say hello. If you would like to participate, you can contact Meg Fellerath at (212) 748-8760 or Bill Quinn at (212) 748-8757. For information on the Festival and the Museum, check out the website at: http://WWW.southstseaport.ORG/index.htm A note to Jeff Herne - We keep missing each other at the festival, are you going to be there on August 6? Contact me off-line at: imm_web_master@yahoo.com Thanks and I hope to see some of you there. Felix Bustelo -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Ed Grune Subject: IPMS Weather report Hello Its Tuesday morning. The convention starts for the staff this afternoon. The weather report for Dallas calls for a cooling trend. The high of 108 happened during the past weekend. We're looking at a cool down so that by this Saturday the projected high is to be in the high '90s. Ya'll come and bring that cool weather with you Ed Mansfield, TX Still hoping to hear from a volunteer ship seminar speaker -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Bill Gruner Subject: NEW JULY UPDATE Our new July UPDATE was mailed yesterday, and will be up on our website in a day or two, and also on the WARSHIP website: http://www.warship.simplenet.com Lots of great new items. Thanks, Bill Gruner Pacific Front Hobbies http://www.pacificfront.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for having SMML at your home, why not stop by our home at: http://www.smml.org.uk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume