Subject: SMML VOL 978 Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 00:09:39 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Vet Thread 2: Snowberry 3: Re: Interesting Events at Bases 4: women in shipbuilding 5: Magic marker to color thread for rigging 6: Re: Hobby room (trailer) 7: Re: punch sets 8: Large Scale Ships 9: Re: vet THREAD 10: Anchor chain bitter end 11: New Magazine 12: Re: Cowpens 13: big models/the Mighty Moo/female modelers 14: Ship country prefixes 15: FriedrichFiles No 4 16: Chicksands 17: Ned's Hobby Room Thread 18: Friedrich´s ID 19: Re: Vet thread, Cowpens, SR-71 20: MYSORE 21: USS Pensylvania camouflage 22: Re: The Bitter End 23: IPMS-USA Day 1 24: My two pfennigs worth on the veterans thread 25: Re: Hobby Room? 26: H.M.S. Frobisher 27: Service thread 28: Re: Zumwalt Class Surfboards 29: Re: KM Scharnhorst 30: Mike Settle 31: Perfect Storm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Magazines for sale 2: Book for sale -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Felix Bustelo" Subject: Vet Thread Hello SMMLers, I have been reading this thread with great interest. I would like to take this opportunity to thank ALL of the vets in this group for serving their nations. You folks do not get enough credit. Regards, Felix Bustelo a.k.a. A Wannabe Sailor For the records - I qanted to but couldn't serve in the US Navy due to health reasons - My head and a 5 iron met in an accident and I had to have two surgerys to patch up the hole in my head. Doctors said that I wouldn't be fit for military service. According my my wife, this explains quite a bit! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: David_L._Miller@ccmail.wiu.edu Subject: Snowberry Has anyone seen (purchased, built) the Revell-Germany 1/72 scale kit of the HMCS Snowberry? It can be converted to RC. I have searched the web for pictures of the kit, but could not find a picture. The Snowberry museum site has pictures of the actual ship. Dave Miller Macomb Il -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: klmok@home.com Subject: Re: Interesting Events at Bases >> The 71 took off and circled the base, it did a low pass over the peace camp, and then climbed a few hundred feet. On the second pass the 71 went vertical, as only a 71 can, and the pilot did the old fuel venting, and torching trick over the peace camp. << Zounds highly unlikely. The S 71 is a high performance, high speed, high altitude straight (flight) line aircraft with very poor low speed, low altitude performance and poor manoeuvrability. He would have been court martialled for endangering a very expensive piece of equipment. Kelvin Mok -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Shirley Sachsen Subject: women in shipbuilding >> I, for one, would be very interested in this type of article. What motivates a woman to become involved in what is primarily a male-dominated hobby? And why are they, generally speaking, so darned good at it? :-) << I have come across this notion on more than one occasion: that women are somehow being 'daring' for 'breaking' into a traditionally male hobby/job/career... along with it comes the assumption, on the part of the traditional men in those tradition male hobbies that any time a woman shows an interest in such areas of endeavor she is either looking for a husband, or isn't necessarily interested in men--if you catch my drift... I do not speak for all the rest, only myself, but I have always had an interest in ships, have always been a modeler. It's not a gender thing, it's an aesthetic thing. Ships are beautiful to me whether they be steel and gray or tall and windborne. And I like putting things together--but I am not good at it. Somewhere along the assembly process I get the 'hurryups' and the end result isn't all that it could be. I've gotten better at recognizing when this condition is coming on--so fewer of my models are being completed anymore--and that was when I had time. As far as motivation goes, what really takes a stiff upper lip is for me to be willing to deal with those traditional men in traditional hobby shops who think that I have no business in said hobby shops unless accompanying my husband in the pursuit of HIS hobby. On more than one occasion I have practically had to throw money at the proprietor to get his attention--I'm a girl, therefore I don't exist. Needless to say, I no longer even attempt to do business in this shop and use mail order almost exclusively. The issue of Women in Modeling, or Women with Guns, or Women who HotRod, seems to be more fascinating to the men than the women who pursue these hobbies. I do not think of myself as a Woman Shipbuilder, I think of myself simply as a Modeler. For me, gender is not an issue, unless you want to make it one. s Boy do I hear you on this Shirley. The hobby isn't gender specific and people who try to make it so only do themselves a disservice. A store which asks me if I'm "sure I'm buying the right paint for my husband"! will get no further business from me. Hobby stores operate on too thin margins as it is to be able to indulge in this type of sexist behaviour. Yes I admit it, female modellers are rare, there are however more out there than you'd think, most of them are busy modelling and prefer to let others talk about it. Mistress Lorna -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: JRKutina@webtv.net (John Kutina) Subject: Magic marker to color thread for rigging Steve, Excellent tip - I plan to use it today. My tip - when making plastic kits often the superstructure bulkheads need greater gluing area, [corners,etc] as do decks to be attached to hulls - I bought a supply of square plastic "swizzle sticks" and cut them to use as reinforcements. They glue well and are cheap, uniform in size, and easy to work with. Regards, John - Seattle -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Hobby room (trailer) A word of caution. Make sure you know what the building codes and ordinances are in your city, as well as restrictive covenants in your particular neighborhood. They may frown on putting an out building or trailer on that section of your property. The same advice goes for running electricity to the building. Rusty White (Architect) Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ "Yeah I want Cheesy Poofs" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: SantMin@aol.com Subject: Re: punch sets I have five punch sets in my toolbox, and while they are expensive, I could not get along without them while scratchbuilding. The two Waldron seta are very tiny and I have two sets that allow me to punch much larger circle (can't think of the maker right now and they are not marked but they were not reheat). I also have a small hex set from Historex. They are all fantastic and indispensable once you start using them. Bob Santos -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: John Subject: Large Scale Ships >> Current Project --- deciding whether to build the USS John F Kennedy in 1/72 or 1/96 scale. I'm having difficulty in locating aircraft in 1/96. I will probably start the project this month in 1/72. << Hello John, GO For it i am building a 1/72 scale r/c model of the H.M.S. HOOD and she is Big 12 feet long and 18.5 inches wide and in the water with all ballast she weighs in at 263 lb.. this sound allot but it is done in 25 lb. shot bags so not lifting all at once, built a water launch trailer for the ship and then a road trailer to haul the ship and the ships trailer, i you can see it in the model picture section of smml's home page or i can send you picture, Trust me your wife ,friends , kids and yes even maybe the coast guard, will call you nuts crazy and a bloody looney, but the first time your ship hits the water and she is the biggest baddest (spelling) and beautiful sight to see, it will all be worth the effort i am running the H.M.S. HOOD still unfinished so you can still have fun and plan on explaining allot, WHY HOW WHEN WHY, anything i can help with i will see if i can VIVA LA 1/72 Scale John Redwood City, CA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "Polvi, Henry" Subject: Re: vet THREAD I sort of consider myself "ex" or "used to be" or "former" as opposed to "vet" - but anyways - joined Canadian Forces as a Naval Marine Engineer in 1984. Posted to HMCS Qu'Appelle and HMCS Nipigon for training, had a nice stint at HMS Manadon/Plymouth UK in 1985/86, and then was a desk officer after that. I guess you could say I was a "REMF" in the Gulf War - someone has to be otherwise why would they have come up with the term? I did get a nice form letter from my MP at the time the Rt. Hon. Kim Campbell (who later became PM - probably as result of her fine staff work as per the nice form letter, but I digress), thanking me for my efforts in the war,etc - that sewage and oily water problem on the ships WAS a major undertaking afterall...Retired in '94 after a a stint at a recruiting office. Henry Polvi Thornhill, ON -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: BSteinIPMS@aol.com Subject: Anchor chain bitter end Rusty White writes: >> I noticed that where the very beginning (or end) of the anchor chain is attached to the ship was noted as "the bitter end of anchor chain." Does anyone know if this is where the saying "sticking to it to the bitter end" comes from? << Yep, you're absolutely correct, Rusty. The inboard end of a hemp anchor hawser was usually secured to the riding bitts of a wooden warship whilst riding to its anchor, hence it was called "the bitted or bitter end." The expression, as I read in various texts, refers more to the extreme end of anything rather than something with a sorrowful outcome. Just an opinion, mind. Bob Steinbrunn Minneapolis Member, Nautical Research Guild Louisiana Naval War Memorial - USS Kidd, DD 661 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Victor M. Baca" Subject: New Magazine There's a fairly new magazine on the market and it should be seriously looked at by scale ship modelers. Maritime Life And Traditions is on Issue Number 7 and it's a winner. The covers are heavy stock and the interior pages brim with information about all types of ships. It appears to be a collaboration between the U.S. and France: Le Chasse-Marie and Wooden Boats Publications, Inc. Their plan presentation is matchless and they tend to cover interesting and not very well known subjects as well as those most ship-lovers are familiar with such as Friendship Sloops and the CSS Alabama. In our area, it is readily available on newstands and at Barnes & Noble Booksellers. The current issue shows the wholesale butchering of stout old fishing vessels under the chainsaw in the name of protecting fish stocks. The idea is that, if you destroy all boats, the fish will thrive. It killed me to see these neat old wooden craft cut up without an effort to preserve them. Even worse was seeing the looks on the ex-fishermen's faces as something near and dear to them being taken. A great but troubling read. Look for our full review on it soon. Victor Baca Model Ship Journal www.modelshipjournal.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: " " Subject: Re: Cowpens >> After regarding the post yesterday about the HMS Beaver, I wonder if the powers that be give any consideration to the crew who will be serving on these vessels. I know you just can't disallow a name because it could be embarrassing to the crew (USS Cowpens for example), but geeeez, I hope they at least consider that when naming ships. << Can't resist this one. The USS Cowpens, a Tico class CG, is the second ship to carry that name behind a WWII Escort Carrier. They are named for the Revolutionary Battle of Cowpens where General Daniel Morgan blunted the British offensive in the South, along with the Battle of King's Mountain. FYI, the town of Cowpens, SC, is about 6 miles from my house and they annually hold the 'Mighty Moo' fesitval where WWII Veterans of the Moo as well as current Cowpens sailors come to be feted by the locals. Just in case someone was wondering. Todd Henry -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Jodie Peeler Subject: big models/the Mighty Moo/female modelers Denis Campbell wrote: >> I hope you realise how big that model will be - over 14ft. in 1/72 and over 10ft. in 1/96. The other thing to consider is the amazing amount of detail required in that scale. If you go with 1/72, you will probably have to scratch build everything - including the hundreds (thousands?) of deck tie-downs. You are taking on a life's work. << Amen to that -- and I speak from experience. About 1988, after visiting the glorious museum at Pensacola and being awed by a really large-scale model of the USS Shangri-La (CVA 38) post-modernization, I decided I had to do the same with my beloved USS Yorktown. I eventually decided on 1/72 scale. The project was a nightmare from the beginning. First off, although there's a lot of information on the Essexes, most of it is WWII stuff, and what little is out there for modernized ships seems to be centered on the 27C (steam-catapult) attack carriers. Then the best kits for 1/72 aircraft that I needed (S-2s, SH-3s) are imported, and some of them (C-1A, E-1B) require expensive imported conversion kits. And then when I finally had a great set of drawings and some of the aircraft, construction was a nightmare. I never got past roughing out the hull, which is now a ten-foot-long monster that still occupies valuable space in my father's workshop. I never *formally* ended the project, but it's more or less dead; I've given away at least one of the aircraft kits, and I really have no intentions of resuming it. Ship models that big are nice, and when they're well-done they are highly impressive. But they require so much in the way of time, and consume almost as much money and display area as the real thing. Unless you're *really* committed to something like this, and are absolutely sure that the project will continue to be fun (since, after all, that's what this hobby is about), consider a much smaller scale. (If you're going to scratchbuild, consider 1/350 -- then you can use planes and some photoetched stuff designed for the Tamiya Enterprise kit. And 1/350 is large enough to be impressive but small enough to be reasonably portable.) Anyway, think about it. If you *really* want to do it, then by all means do so, but *please* be warned. From experience I can tell you that a doctoral dissertation is *far* easier.... Eugene Cammeron wrote: >> Actually Rusty, I don't think the crew of USS COWPENS (CVL-25) were at all embarassed about the name of their ship. They called her 'The Mighty Moo' and they seemed pretty proud of her record. << My hometown (in SC) is about 65 miles from where the Battle of Cowpens took place. Every year the city of Cowpens holds a "Mighty Moo" festival and the guys who served on CVL-25 are honored as heroes. And besides, we from SC are proud of any ship whose name is uniquely South Carolinian -- so many of our great place names (like Columbia and Charleston) are shared by other cities across the US! Bob Steinbrunn wrote: >> I, for one, would be very interested in this type of article. What motivates a woman to become involved in what is primarily a male-dominated hobby? And why are they, generally speaking, so darned good at it? :-) << Thank you, Bob! ;) I'm very happy that MSJ is wanting to do this kind of article. It seems when I'm at a show, or talking to someone in a hobby shop, there's at least one man who asks me "what got you interested in *this*?" I'm often at a loss for a satisfactory answer, because I've never let gender get in the way of my interests, and I just don't think about it. Besides, if men can enjoy crocheting or taking ballet lessons, then I can enjoy building ship models.... jodie (who never served, but has respect for those who did, and do) http://www.mindspring.com/~raisingirl/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: Darren Scannell Subject: Ship country prefixes I was wondering what each country uses as an identifier to their ships. These are the ones I know: HMCS - Canada HMS - Britain HMAS - Australia USS - USA JDS - Japan FNS - France INS - India SAS - South Africa What are: Russia Germany Spain Greece and any others you might know. The Italian hat I have shows Nave Luigi Durrand De La Penne, is Nave the Italian prefix or is it just Navy and the prefix is something else? Darren Scannell -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: Friedrich Kappes Subject: FriedrichFiles No 4 Has anybody information for me concerning these ships: Landingvessels: line drawings Lens III (German harbour launch 1910) speed Libelle-class (East German [GDR] MTBs) minecapacity Mekong, Le (French supplier 1929) line drawing Mrowka (Sovjet tender 1970s) date of commission Neustadt (former Polish tug Ursus ~1924) completed in ? Novik (Russian destroyer 1913) line drawing Nura (rotator-ship, chemical transport) date of completion Oilman (Brit. sail-propelled oiler, ~1985) date of completion Oppossum (Brit. destroyer 1896) line drawing? Thank you in advance Friedrich The FriedrichFiles -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "nickbalmer" Subject: Chicksands Hello I hadn't realised how many ship modellers lived near Chicksands. I walk there regularly, and live only 8 miles away. What incident? I've been here 15 years. I don't think I glowing gently yet. I would have loved to see an SR71 try to land near Chicksands. The A507 road all of 20 foot wide, and with a bend every 100 yards is the nearest strip of tarmac. You wouldn't want to try to land on that. Chicksands has never had any aircraft, it was and is a spy base. The huge old circular radio dish made from pylons and wire would made one hell of a challenge, even in photo etch. It was perhaps 100 feet plus high and a couple of hundred feet in diameter. Perhaps it was the incident that removed my sense of humour. Regards Nick Balmer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: "Victor M. Baca" Subject: Ned's Hobby Room Thread Ah, The memories. My first hobby room was the kitchen table until my ex-wife forced me into the closet, literally. (I suppose that's why she didn't last) I made the living room closet into a nifty little shop in our one bedroom apartment. It had electrical wiring, to code of course, and a full sized 28" x 28" wall-to-wall table. I could only build models under 25" in there. The coolest thing was listening to the VHF frequency scanner bracketed to the wall, monitoring ships coming and going out of Los Angeles/Long Beach harbors a short distance away as the gull flies. Great "mood music' especially when your modeling subject comes up 'on the air.' Built another one of those closets as an auxiliary shop in our big house later (a man needs all the shops he can get). That one was featured in Fine Scale Modeler complete with plans. The next one was a full sized bedroom that my pride and joy, Cindy helped me build. She did stained glass picture creations at the time and many was the night we worked (who can call it work???) on our replicas. Long talks until oh-dark-thirty and good coffee, who could ask for anything more? Now in a smaller house by the bay, with the shop re-modeled into a publishing office, we write long into the night. Thanks to the electronic wonders provided by Adobe illustration software, my old oak drafting table is now a hobby table, well protected with an Olfa cutting mat (great tool, if you don't have one already) and I'm back to tiny models again and having a ball. Background VHF music is the same now, with a Northwest twist. Thanks for the memories, Ned Victor Baca -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: Friedrich Kappes Subject: Friedrich´s ID I have never been in the Navy, but even though I´m very interested in ships and aircraft. That´s why I always send little portions of my questins around. I´m a German student, so I don´t have a lot of money to buy every book, and not a lot of time to surf the inet. I have some books, but even the best book leaves questions I try to get answered by asking you. I hope sometime there´ll be somebody who can give me some information, but of course I know that the facts I search for are neither in the Conway nor in Gröner, or other high quality books. That´s what it makes so hard. (The same it is with the airplanes and airships) So, see you! Friedrich The FriedrichFiles -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: Tom Detweiler Subject: Re: Vet thread, Cowpens, SR-71 Hi All- Vet thread: USN, 1968-71. Boots/A/B Schools, San Diego. Spent 3 years aboard USS Higbee, DD-806 (Fram II Gearing with ASROC, unused DASH hangar, fore/aft twin 5" turrets) as Interior Communications electrician, got up to E5/IC2 before getting out in Dec. 71. Took care of electronics from highest (wind bird, atop radio mast) to lowest (pit sword/ships speed indicator lowered by hand crank just forward of #1 boiler, always over 120F degrees down there, and almost always stuck). Out of Long Beach as part of Desron 9, made 2 cruises as part of Uncle Sam's Tonkin Gulf Yacht Club: Plenty of plane guarding (Ranger, Valley Forge, Kitty Hawk, etc.), Nighttime Gunfire Support, Radar Picket duty, upriver support (running supplies upriver to USN supply depots and swiftboat nesting for the Seabees). R&R all over the Pacific, met lots of RN and RAN sailors while in Hong Kong and always had a great time swapping seastories-our senses of humor had more in common than different (dirty!); went aboard several of their vessels tied up at pierside in HK on Victoria island and was most impressed with RAN destroyers, much larger and newer than our own! I am the and now a "tin can sailor", and got back into modeling with a desire to build a model of my ship as she was while I was aboard her-I bet most of us do that. I am very impressed with the large number of vets who are members of this list and active modelers. Keep up the good work, and a Snappy Quarterdeck Salute to all my fellow Navy vets from any country! Ship Names thread: my stepdaughter is aboard the USS Cowpens, CG-63, which is presently in Japan. For some reason the ship will stay in Japan (probably Yokosuka) and the crew will return aboard another CG returning to the states. The crew is proud of the ship's name, and do indeed call it the "Mighty Moo"; the website proudly states it is the "Home of the Thundering Herd"-that American sense of humor, again. Don't know where she'll go from there. I routinely snip and send my daughter tidbits of info gleaned from SMML, which she might not otherwise know. It's been great fun. Chicksands SR-71 incident: I'd have given anything to see the faces on that mob of scruffy peaceniks, when that Blackbird did the vent and torch over their camp-- I hope it singed their filthy little knickers off! What a riot! This is a great email list, and my favorite of the several I subscribe to. I even don't mind the occasional flame war now and then, it livens things up a bit, even the ironically absurd, such as "who has the least sense of humor about their sense of humor?" I dislike the Politically (Pathetically?) Correct, and would find it tragic if the internet got too "civilized". Tom Detweiler, Test Engineer, CA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: "JOHN CURRIE" Subject: MYSORE Hi all, I hope my camera is back from the repair shop for next week, we are operating with the MYSORE which is a DELHI class. Which as already stated in previous posts as a stretched MOD KASHIN, although she has the far greater fire power of the Russian and now Chinese SOVREMENNY. She will be alongside in Portsmouth so i will try and get a sample of paint, any takers???????? May you all have fair winds and following sea's John -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: "John Sheridan" Subject: USS Pensylvania camouflage >> I found the following table on the US WWII Battleships & Battlecruisers site (http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Quarters/4289/index.html ). It lists camouflage schemes for USS Pennsylvania during WWII. ? - 1?/42 Measure 1 1?42 - 6?42 Measure 11? 6?42? - 44 Measure 21 44 Measure 31a/6B? 45 Measure 21 I was under the impression that USS Pennsylvania had been sporting MS 21 from early 42 (refit at Mare Island) till the end of the war. << USS Pennsylvania carried MS 21 from 1942 till the end of the war in 1945. She never carried MS 31a/6B. >> MS21 would translate into Navy Blue vertical surfaces. However, all the photos I have of USS Pennsylvania at the time of the first Mare Isand refit (Feb 42) show the ship in a medium dark color that is noticeably lighter than the unifirms worn by most sailors (who would be wearing dark blue uniforms at that time of the year, I guess). I would have expected Navy Blue to be dark enough not to appear so light against a sailor's clothes. << Sea Blue was discontinued in the Atlantic in September 1941. It was discontinued in the Pacific soon after. Pearl Harbor was experimenting with different blue paints in the latter part of 1941. Navy Blue (5-N) was in use before its formal introduction with the revision of SHIPS-2 in June 1942. Since the ship was painted at a major stateside base in 1942, it was most likely painted with Navy Blue 5-N and NOT Sea Blue 5-S. >> Now, if indeed it was Ms 11, and not 21, that was USS Pennsylvania's vertical color, that would translate into Sea Blue. Would Sea Blue be lighter enough that it would explain the distinct contrast with the sailors outfit? << Not really. Navy Blue is not a real dark color and has Gray mixed into it. Sailors uniforms are a solid dark blue color. That would explain the contrast difference. John Sheridan www.shipcamouflage.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: Rick Heinbaugh Subject: Re: The Bitter End Rusty wrote: >> I was looking through one of my Anatomy of the Ship books and noticed an interesting note on one of the drawings. On page 68 of the Aircraft Carrier Intrepid book, I noticed that where the very beginning (or end) of the anchor chain is attached to the ship was noted as "the bitter end of anchor chain." Does anyone know if this is where the saying "sticking to it to the bitter end" comes from? << Yes, indeed. The tail end of a line or rope or chain is called the bitter end, and that phrase means you are holding on to it as it slips out through your miserable rope-burned hands until the bitter end gets away from you. Or, in the case of an anchor chain, if you drop anchor in deep water and the windlass brake fails, you can watch as the individual 15 fathom sections (called "shots") of chain pay out, watching the vaious colored markings at the end of each shot, until you see a bunch of yellow chain come out (that's the next-to-last shot), soon to be followed by a red shot (the final 15 fathoms - 90 feet), followed by whatever used to connect the chain to the ship. And that "whatever used to connect it" will probably be flailing and trying to hurt somebody. The word in First Division is that when the chain is payed out, when you see yellow chain, you leave the fo'c'sle. There is no honor in staying to the bitter end in this case. Actually, the subject of markings on anchor chain could make a bit of an interesting bit of color for a diorama of a ship at anchor. Anybody intersted in the marking scheme for putting a few dabs of color on a chain. Rick Heinbaugh Seattle, WA Cheesy poofs: Just say No! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: Marc Flake Subject: IPMS-USA Day 1 Just stagered in from my first day at the IPMS nationals. The line for registration never seemed to end. The North Central Texas volunteers were doing an admirable job keeping the lines moving. I spend two and a half wonderful hours in the vendor room. I escorted a radio reporter in before opening -- he literally staggered upon seeing all the plastic kits ready for buying. There were a lot more ship-related stuff than I thiught there would be. For me, the most impressive site was Steve Wipers tables--stacked high with his trademark white boxes. I've never seen so many 1/350 resin kits together in all my life. JAG was setting up next to him, so I picked up my SMML badge. I stopped by the Iron Shipwrights display as well. Loose Cannon hasn't set up shop yet. Tamiya had the 1/700 Indianapolis on display. This is NOT a repop of the Matchbox mold. It is in the 1945 conviguration she was lost in. The 40 mms and 5-inches sure look sweet. Nice detail all around, except the gun tubs are too thick. I'll be back tomorrow, mainly to check out the vendors that set up after I left this evening. Will report back later, Marc -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24) From: "Jeffry Fontaine" Subject: My two pfennigs worth on the veterans thread I started out with more "sea time" than most of you Navy guys, I spent six and a half years in a place called Adak, Alaska in the Aleutian Islands which was considered "sea duty" assignment for those assigned there. Being a civilian dependent (my father worked for the Navy) I had a unique opportunity to experience the Navy first hand which is one of the reasons I joined the Army. May 1973 - May 1976 US Army Clerk Typist MOS 71B retrained as a 72E Telecommunications Center Specialist, also worked as a grocery store clerk, supply clerk, truck driver and company commanders jeep driver/RTO. Lived in a barracks full of drug addicts, dope dealers and black marketeers, and I thought the Navy was bad. ETS/Honorable Discharge in 1976, Specialist Four E-4. June 1976- February1977 College student, worked full time at night went to school during the day, no fun in that. Decided to try and become a helicopter pilot, passed all of the entrance examinations except the one where the doctor says that if you wear glasses, you can not fly a helicotper, so much for that idea. March 1977-August 1990. I re-enlisted to become a Photo Interpreter MOS 96D, later called an Imagery Analyst or Imagery Interpreter. Had some very interesting experiences with Radar imagery, Berlin Corridor Imaging and Satellite imagery on various assignments. Last tour of duty was with the 5th Special Forces Group (Airborne) where I endured the move from the promised land at Fort Bragg, North Carolina to the wasteland of Fort Campbell, Kentucky. Under review for promotion to Master Sergeant E-8 but because of past experiences with the Army weight control program and a commanding officer in need of a spine donor, I was fired. I packed my bags and went home as my unit packed up for deployment to Desert Shield/Desert Storm. ETS/Honorable Discharge August 1990 Sergeant First Class E-7. Never got shot at, but I sure did want to shoot a few of my leaders (fragging is just a more pro-active form of personnel management!) I did have some trigger happy Air Force Secruity Police hold me at gun point once because of a faulty security alarm in a building where I was authorized and cleared to be while the Security Police were not even cleared to get past the front door, that always made me wonder why they had the guns and I didn't. afn Jeffry Fontaine Bremerton, Washington -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 25) From: NEVENGER@aol.com Subject: Re: Hobby Room? I enclosed my carport (10 x 14 feet). It is now a combo office/hobby room. It is also my domine. The wife gets to do what ever she likes with the rest of the house, but my room is all mine. I even got to plan the built in shelving around the top of the room to keep the kits off the floor. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 26) From: Tony Ireland Subject: H.M.S. Frobisher Hello, Mike Now aged 74, I'm a member of the Auckland Scale Marine Modellers club here in Panmure, Auckland, New Zealand. Was a Midshipman R.N.R. aboard the elderly heavy cruiser 'Frobisher' March -July 1944 and she led the 5th Cruiser Squadron into their bombardment positions off Gold & Sword Beaches near Ouistreham in Normandy on 6th June, 1944. Exactly one month after my 18th birthday. Very exciting! Have never come across any photo or info on this 1924-era R.N. warship which I think was similar to 'Hawkins' and 'Effingham'. Her 7.5-inch manually-operated guns were primitive, but we destroyed the four vital enemy 5.9" guns near the Orne Canal mouth by putting our 205-lb armour-piercing shells into the slits in their thick concrete emplacements from a range of 5,000 yards, as we lay stationary almost aground surrounded by a forest of shell splashes that luckily must have confused all the tanks and artillery that were trying to help our targetted battery. It probably took us only five or ten minutes to destroy this battery, but it seemed hours! Then it was glorious to feel the deck vibrate as we went full ahead and dashed back out into the Channel at 24 knots to rejoin the rest of the bombardment squadron - that included 'Warspite' and 'Ramillies' and half a dozen cruisers, including the shiny new 'Dido' class cruiser 'Sirius'. We were clearly 'expendable'... I believe 'Frobisher' spent the next few years as some sort of training ship. Would like to construct a model of her if I can lay hands on some plans &/or photos. My own (illegal!) photos were lost when my Agfa roll-film folding camera was destroyed by the blast of cordite flame from the nearby 'Q' 7.5" gun as it fired unexpectedly at maximum elevation at some tanks way inland - just as I leaned outwards from my 20mm Oerlikon flak battery to capture a nearby destroyer as it fired rapid broadsides past us. The camera's black flexible bellows was vaporized, and I was blown backwards. The M.O.commented light-heartedly that I must have been breathing out at that instant, to have survived. We had loaded up with every 7.5" projectile in the U.K. and they overflowed the magazine storage. So scores of shells were neatly piled up in circular walls around the five main guns. Captain Mudford was a good psychologist. About 6.0 p.m. on 5th June as we steamed slowly south from the Isle of Wight he issued boxes of chalk to the five guns' crews who then competed to adorn the hundreds of shells with the most witty, rude and artistic pithy messages addressed to Hitler et al. Thus we went into action next morning in fits of giggling! Every shell was fired in the next three days, and muzzle blast destroyed every searchlight and Aldis signal lamp, as well as my poor camera, and left the wind-deflecter steel strip hanging around the compass platform like Christmas tinsel. By that time I stank, having been half-drowned on D+1 by the huge geyser created by a German 15-inch shell fired from Le Havre twenty miles to the east, which fell alongsde my little flak battery when we incautiously ventured eastward away from the invasion beach. We fled westward, zig-zagging and making choking black smoke (uselessly, as we were obviously being ranged by radar) and chased by half a dozen more very accurate salvos of three shells. I believe the R.A.F. next night dropped a vast weight of bombs on the three 15-inch coast-defence guns. So we guessed we'd been sent by Admiral Vian to tempt them to reveal their position and maximum range. Such a simple world then, of Goodies and Baddies.... I wonder if there is an R.N.V.R. Association in the U.K. and if so whether you could give me its e-mail or 'Web address. Would like to trace some shipmates I knew aboard a corvette and a frigate later on, using this clever Internet. Thanks. Regards, Tony. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 27) From: "wblad" Subject: Service thread In my post the other day I did not intend to imply that the Surface Warfare community was unfit to serve their country. They are as hardworking and talented as any other group in the US Navy. I was merely reflecting a complaint from within the community that they were unfairly perceived by the bureau and were being used as a dumping ground. I regret any misunderstanding, which is entirely my fault. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 28) From: "Jeffry Fontaine" Subject: Re: Zumwalt Class Surfboards Hi all; Is it just me or does anyone else feel a bit skeptical about the Navy's latest Zumwalt Class "land attack" destroyer and the claim to be able to "do it all?" After viewing the available images of the DD-21 at the Federation of American Scientists web pages, I can only say that who ever designed that thing should be tested for drug abuse because they certainly must have been on drugs when they sold the Navy on that thing. Providing naval gunfire support to forces engaged on a beachhead is practical but the thought of that butt ugly ship actually providing any kind of deep interediction fires beyond the immediate beach head is amusing. To me it looks like a failure waiting to happen and it is going to cost a lot of money to correct. I also have to question the "sea keeping" abilitiy of that design as well, it looks like an open invitation for a maritime disaster, too low in the water and no freeboard to speak of, what were they thinking? Stealth, maybe at a distance, up close, it will be too hard to target because every one will be laughing so hard they will have tears in their eyes, yes maybe that was the idea. Tears in their eyes, unable to target effectively. I think the Navy should go back to the drawing board and pull their head out of their collective fourth point of contact (butt) and come up with a better design that can actually handle rough weather and stormy seas instead of this poor imitation of a surfboard. Just my thoughts on the latest waste of money to come out of the beltway. afn, Jeffry Fontaine Bremerton, Washington -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 29) From: Minadmiral@aol.com Subject: Re: KM Scharnhorst >> The mods included the 15" guns on the Gneseanu << Hi; This was an intended modification, but was NEVER done! Chuck Duggie WoodenWalls Listmeister Naval wargamer, amateur naval historian, and ship modeler -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 30) From: Minadmiral@aol.com Subject: Mike Settle >> I am not agent #1908 of the non-existent Lumber Cartel (tinlc)tm << Hi Mike; We finally got our curiosity satisfied about "Cheesy Poufs",sic. Now could you fill us in on this "Lumber Cartel" thing? TIA Chuck Duggie WoodenWalls Listmeister Naval wargamer, amateur naval historian, and ship modeler An American with a sence of humo(u)r. I can proove it, I can tell Clinton jokes for 2 hours without repeating myself. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 31) From: CBNJBB62@aol.com Subject: Perfect Storm Hi Guys I recently learned something about the movie the perfect storm. The actor who starred as the sail boat captain was recently interviewed on radio station and disclosed two interesting facts. In the movie the sailboat crew is rescued by helicopter and the abandoned. The real story is that the sailboat captain stayed on his boat and put his family on the chopper and survived the storm reaching his destination on his own. Also the ocean scenes with storm were filmed inside studio with a larger than Olympic size pool equipped with wave making equipment that could make 40ft waves! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: BSteinIPMS@aol.com Subject: Magazines for sale I have 70 issues of Challenge Publications' "Scale Ship Modeler" for sale, various dates, with a number of their Special Issues within. I'm asking $70 plus $8 for shipping within the U.S. This is not a world class scale ship modeling magazine, in my humble opinion, (except during Loren Perry's tenure as editor there), but for only $1.00 U.S. per issue you can't go wrong. Bob Steinbrunn Minneapolis Member, Nautical Research Guild Louisiana Naval War Memorial - USS Kidd, DD 661 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "s" Subject: Book for sale Hi Guys I have this book for sale. Condition is very good. Thanks Lawrence R. LA Calif. BATTLESHIPS United States Battleships in World War II Dulin ,Garzke. Sumrall.updated 3rd printing 1984. 290 pgs.Covers North Carolina Class, South Dakota Class, Iowa Class, Montana Class, Alaska class and alot more. Drawings, pictures Etc. Great book. $35.00 + $4.00 ship -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for having SMML at your home, why not stop by our home at: http://www.smml.org.uk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume