Subject: SMML VOL 980 Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 20:52:53 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: women in shipbuilding 2: IPMS-USA Day 3 3: Boot Topping for KGV 4: Re: Zumwalt Class Surfboards 5: Re: Zumwalt Class Surfboards 6: USS Liberty 7: HMS Ark Royal / HMS Illustrious / etc 8: VET Thread 9: Veterans thread 10: Re: Hobby Rooms (SOC "Seagull - WINGS kit) 11: Re: Ship country prefixes 12: Barcelona Ship Shoping and "Museing" 13: Ship prefixes 14: Re: Various 15: lighter 16: Nats on the Bar-be... 17: Nats, Rooms and Vets 18: Ship Country Prefixes 19: hms hood 1/72 20: Re: Military Vets -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: FS: Wasa Battle station -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Shirley Sachsen Subject: women in shipbuilding to Bob Steinbrunn: I know what you were trying to say, and you're right, it doesn't come out in print very well--just as your original post set off all sorts of bells and whistles, so does yours today of 'sensitive feminine toes'... I was not shouting in my post, and I'm sorry if it came off that way. after a working and hobby career of condescension from folks using very similar terms as put downs, yes, I am 'sensitive' to it. as the other women who posted today have commented, I want you to see my work and talent--who I am--not what I am. unfortunately, cultural training, and the 'traditional' hobby shops and men I spoke of have created this minority in the very cool hobby of shipmodeling, as it has in many other very cool hobbies like militaria, cars, and firearms. I think this upcoming article about women who build ships can be very interesting and enlightening to those who may not be as enlightened about it being 'okay' or acceptable. That it is being written by a woman, who was inspired to build her own models after seeing the work of another's I think is a good thing. If it leads more women to step out of convention and pursue something they truly like (ships in this case) over something they've been told to like, the article will have done its job--just as the magazine it's to appear in has inspired me to finally get off my backside and back into modeling myself. to continue with the thread you brought up: what got me started in ship modeling--and modeling in general--is that my dad was a modeler. we had a weekly ritual to go over to our local shop in town that had existed since the early 40s. Its real name was Alameda Hobbycraft, but we all called it 'Feenies' after the owner: Mr. Feeny. It was one of those full service shops with science, craft, model railroad, plastics, and balsa models. I went for the nature models of birds and animals, moving up to the Aurora knights and hot rods, and then to the UPC line of Minitank knockoffs, and finally to ships. My dad did not teach me, but he indulged me by buying me kits and paint (and then being very critical of the results). I considered him a Master Modeler, but his work was nothing compared to what I've been seeing in Model Ship Journal and Plastic Ship Modeler. I've been building models since I was 5 or so (so that makes it almost 40 years), I don't scratchbuild, because I don't have the patience, and prefer plastics, but I also enjoy a good paper model. I love all ships for the most part, but my stated preferences are full rigged sailing ships, tugboats, modern US Navy ships. I still take down off the shelf from time to time the Heller huge scale Victory--gazing longingly at the sheets of blocks and spools of thread for handmade ratlines--wondering if I'll ever have the nerve to start the thing. I think once I finally finish the restoration of my Aurora Wanderer, I'll be able to tell if I'm up to the challenge--though maybe not to the one of where to put it when it's done :-) I do not have the support of my brother with whom I share a house--it's just one more thing to add to the clutter. when my Wanderer was destroyed by the neighbor's cat, all he could say to me was, can't you fix it? I have some good modeler friends though, who I accompany on hobby shop trips--and who inevitably become 'my husband pursuing his hobby' at some shops. (sometimes I feel like the women soldiers during Desert Storm who had to take a man shopping with them.) I do have a hobby table in what is supposed to be the dining room of my tiny little house that my brother built for me (the table, not the house) long before we shared the place (then he could afford to support my hobbies--he didn't have to live with them...). Usually I have several projects going at once which only makes it confusing. right now, besides Wanderer, I have waiting on the bench the Tamiya PBR and DML LSSC. Predominantly, I build miniature figures--hence my interest in the 1/35 scale boats. I can paint a mean 25mm knight, but am rather hamfisted when it comes to a ship model. and to Lorna, Lynn & Jodie: what you said! and much more eloquently than I could. Just as the original post of the women shipbuilder article was meant to inspire others, I find that knowing you're out there eases the burden of 'oddness' for me. To discover one is not alone in the hobby (and in the 'bad experiences' dept.) is many times a relief. Though I'm sorry we share the same maddening experiences, I am happy to know you exist! which I guess is what Bob meant in the first place. I still agree with the assertion, however, made by Lynn about mediocre women modelers being exalted over excellent male modelers just because they're women. it's that sort of 'affirmative action' that's created bad feelings in the work place. to Victor: looks like you got a taste of what 'we've' had to experience... and you're right. stepping out of the traditional shops for a specific hobby and seeking elsewhere for what you need can be daunting--sort of like the music stopping when you walk into the saloon. needlepoint, quilting, and general sewing/fabric shops do indeed have many 'findings' and odds and ends just perfect for modeling. Try lacemaking stores, too, some of the threads and fine wires used in that endeavor are even more suitable. and Loren: you can't realize how envious I am of the tug sailor you described! your comments are well taken as well: good modeling is wherever you find it and a good mix of practitioners grows the hobby in many directions not otherwise explored--such as Victor's discovery of needlework shops. In fact, your comments about boy toys vs. girl toys I had just got through describing off list using the Lionel pink train as an example. It didn't sell--not because girls don't like trains, just that no self-respecting train loving girl would be caught dead with a pink locomotive. I would have joined the service when it was the time to do so if women got to do more than be a secretary (in keeping with the vet thread), but they didn't then and I don't make coffee for anyone. (never mind the female uniforms are not to my taste). Just as my hobbies are non-traditional, so are my chosen careers: I was an electric motor winder, both small motors, and diesel electric traction motors for locomotives. I've also had the experience of manually starting and operating a GE U-boat (for you train fans out there). Now I'm in Inventory Control for transit buses, actually know what a camshaft is, and that a 'buddahstat' doesn't exist long before some mechanic tried to tease me. And, to stay with the ship genre, as I've mentioned before on this list, I'm the Archivist for the USS HORNET Museum--what I call my 1:1 scale model :-) so at least my interest in ships and modeling has led to something nautical--even though I'm still very envious of that tug sailor... thanks for letting me rant--thanks, Shane and Lorna, for providing the forum and an outstanding list, and thanks to John for turning me on to it. shirley -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Marc Flake Subject: IPMS-USA Day 3 Not many ship kits when I left this afternoon. For the 1/600 crowd, there was a very nicely done Airfix Iron Duke, complete with crew members on deck. Also saw a fine diorama of a 1/35 U-boat shooting down a Catalina. The Catalina's props were even rotating, and the port engine was stuttering as it was pouring out smoke. Saw a test shot of what will become the USS WASP at the Corsair Armada table. No flight deck yet, but the hanger deck looked nice as did the island. Steve Wiper told me he had brought three RANGERS to the show and sold all three before I got to his table. Oh, YEAH, and Loose Cannon shows up and sells all their EASTWINDS before I can get into the building -- my car battery died and it took me all morning to get the car running again. I thought they were kidding when they said they were sold out, but they weren't. They had one built but not painted on display. Tubby little thing. Nice set of brass goes with it, the Duck looks good, too. So much for Day 3, tonight's the judging, tomorrow's the awards. Might be too late to report after the banquet and the drive home. Marc Hi Marc, Great reports (esp, since some of us get two versions ;-) ). Good luck to all those SMMLies & others in the comps. Pictures of the US Nats are on the net at: http://www.chromaconcepts.com/nats_update/index.html If you know of any other Nats sites send them in. Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Jana & Pavel" Subject: Boot Topping for KGV Dear David, I am sure there are as many methods for this as there are subscribers. What works for me is this: Place model on firm level surface where it won't move. Using wood blocks to the correct height of the boot topping, scribe a line with a pencil that is fixed to the wood blocks all around the hull. This method has been described in a few publications and does work. Regards Pavel -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Jeffry Fontaine" Subject: Re: Zumwalt Class Surfboards "National Missile Defense" yes you are absolutely correct, just about any term with the word "National" included in it is a bad idea, eg; National Firearms Act, National Health Care, National Speed Limit...the list goes on. The same applies with the term "Democratic" in a countries title which usually indicates anything but democratic in reality. If the Navy is really serious about having a fleet of "Z" class surfboards in the fleet, I imaging they will lower the standards to attract the warm bodies (manpower) to actually man these things. So be prepared for some recruiting advertisments with a skate boarder and surfer theme which should be quite entertaining when these ships actually get to the point that they need warm bodies to operate them. A possible dialogue for the recruiting advertisment with the vocabulary from "Bill & Ted's Most Excellent Adventure" comes to mind: "Whoooaaa Dude! Did you see that?" "No, Waaaaaaay Man!" "Yeeeeesss, Way Man!" "Dude! It's a surfboard! With Attitude!" "Cooooool Man!" "Yeah, far out!" afn, Jeff -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: tomkremer@ap.net Subject: Re: Zumwalt Class Surfboards From: Shirley Sachsen >> what a perfect description of that thing! when you mentioned 'seakeeping' it immediately brought to mind the issues with the Civil War era monitors and what happened to the original Monitor. It was very effective and hard to hit, so long as there was no sea--give it a wave or two in open ocean and swamp! << Below the waterline DD21 is just a varient of the Spruance-Ticonderoga-Burke hull form, all good sea boats. High freeboard doesn't mean much in regards to seaworthness. Instead of comparing DD21 to a 19th century powered raft take a look at a modern oceangoing tugboat... they are low and wet as a half-tide rock. Tom Kremer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: Jodie Peeler Subject: USS Liberty hello all.... Steve wrote: >> Can anyone please till me of the history of the USS Liberty (of 1967, not the Libery ships of WW 2) << Ex-SS Simmons Victory (a VC2-S-AP3 type built in 1945, if I recall correctly); converted in the early-to-mid 1960s to a "technical research" ship (AGTR-5). On June 8, 1967 the Liberty was shot up and torpedoed by Israeli forces with 34 dead and 171 wounded. The ship underwent emergency repairs at Valleta, Malta before returning stateside, and at Norfolk the damage was later deemed too extensive to warrant repair (word has it, from one of the survivors, that the ship's keel was actually *twisted* longitudinally and you could actually see this when you stood atop the pilothouse). In addition, the seizure of the USS Pueblo six months later persuaded the USN to consider other means of gathering intelligence rather than converted (and lightly-armed) auxiliary ships. USS Liberty was decommissioned in 1969 and sold for scrap some time later. By far the best source I have come across is a book by James M. Ennes Jr., titled "Assault on the Liberty," published about 1982 by Random House. Jim was one of the ship's officers and was wounded in the attack, and his book has lots of great information about the ship. He and another shipmate, Joe Meadors (a signalman who raised the large US flag during the attack), run a great website with lots of images and tributes to their fallen shipmates -- and they're both nice guys who are responsive to questions. Alas, I lost the URL, but if you do a search on Northern Light or some other search engine, you should be able to find it. For what it's worth, I'd love to do more research on the AGERs and AGTRs myself, but as you can imagine, the US Government is not exactly forthcoming with information about intelligence ships. Plus research on the Liberty herself is a bit tricky since the subject is still politically sensitive. I once considered writing a book about the subject but decided it was too touchy a subject for me to plumb. That said, if anyone knows where some decent modelmaker's drawings or plans might be of these ships, please let me know.... Henry Polvi wrote, regarding the project I'd love to forget: >> Would this make a serviceable/curiosity ("Hey lookit that...") canoe or rowboat - paint her up grey? << Actually, I'm thinking of putting it up on eBay -- with lots of "L@@K!!! RARE!!!" tags in the subject line. No telling what it would bring then.... ;) jodie http://www.mindspring.com/~raisingirl/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "Francisco Javier Chaves Salarrullana" Subject: HMS Ark Royal / HMS Illustrious / etc Hola! One more week, and... I'm looking for a little help. Could anybody tell me the colours HMS Ark Royal and HMS Illustrious had on the decks. And the hull colors? And the Illustrious camouflage? Was the Walrus aboard HMS Prince of Wales camouflaged Extra Dark Sea Grey and Dark Slate Grey over Sky, or was just Extra Dark Sea Grey over Sky? Were all Type S or Matt? Best regards and good summer vacations for those who enjoy them now or will do in a few days. Francisco Javier Chaves. Zaragoza (Spain) P.S: Reaching easily 100ºF in the shade today, and last week even 125ºF. Like our Texans friends we also VALUE those parking places in the shade. We have the same grille above us... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "Rick_Jugar" Subject: VET Thread Joined the Navy in 1959 and retired in 1992 Boot Camp/RM"A" School 59/60 Ships: USS Thetis Bay (LPH-6) USS Hancock (CVA-19) USS Current (ARS-22) USS Flyer (TAG-178) USS Union (LKA 106) Shore Commands: CINCPAC Fleet Operations Left active duty RM1 Joined the Naval Reserve in 1969 Promoted to RMC then cross rated to CTC Selected for WO program and retired as CWO-4 in 1992. Go Navy -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "Victor M. Baca" Subject: Veterans thread I have been following the veteran thread and am honored to be involved with a group of really fine people. Most of the writers on this list I only know as an e-mail address. By sharing some of our backgrounds, we become something more. Personally, I never served in the military. Came of age in 1970 with a draft number of 16. Waiting to be drafted, Bouncing Betty was always in my nightmares; she promised she'd wait for me. Eventually, the local university accepted me and the draft board issued a deferment to study journalism. The war ended during my studies and I felt like I cheated Uncle Sam, so joined an ambulance service. Spent 4 years in the street wars in and around Los Angeles, CA. Many was the broken vet we met and many were the unloadings of endless MAC Flights to take badly wounded and scarred soldiers to Long Beach Veteran's Hospital. You guys live in my mind every day. Your secrets and stories shared in the ambulance give me inspiration. I will never forget how you suffered for our country. All My Best, Victor Baca "Life is indeed fragile, honor it and treat everyone you come in contact with accordingly." -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "Art Herrick" Subject: Re: Hobby Rooms (SOC "Seagull - WINGS kit) Hi! Chris Neel & SMMLies Re. your message #35, 21 July, SMML 979 Have a address for WINGS vacuum formed aircraft kits (It dates back to 1993.) I just searched the Web quickly and no WINGS Web site: Wings 72 & Wings 48, Inc. No E-Mail address. 3349 Wildridge Dr. NE Grand Rapids MI 49505 616 363-7637 Donald H. Bratt, President I purchased a 1:48 02U "Corsair (float or wheels) in 1993. A good quality kit. Their catalog showed both float and wheeled kits for a 1:48 SOC "Seagull". A note in the catalog says: "Only plane to have served aboard every battleship, every cruiser, every carrier in the US Navy prior to WW 2." Not available in 1:72. Hope they are still in business. A great collection of unusual aircraft subjects, including pre-WW 2 naval aircraft. Art Herrick Westmoreland NH -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "John Rule" Subject: Re: Ship country prefixes >> I'm not sure of the prefixes you are missing, but I have it on good authority that the Italian Navy pre-fixes when properly translated were "WGU" - "We give up....." Just another humourless American chiming in - << I know that was said in jest and it was so taken. We have all seen the propaganda photos of Italian soldiers in their thousands being marched off into activity by a solitary Scots soldier, as we have also seen the thousands of German troops being marched to activity after Stalingrad: the British and Commonwealth prisoners at Hong Kong and Singapore and the U.S. and Philippine troops after their surrender at Bataan. All of the these films and photos were used to foster the impression that the captured troops were in some way inferior or cowardly. However, the Italian Navy and its personnel can certainly not be accused of any form of cowardice or for that matter of giving up easily. Yes they did suffer at the hands of the allies, but they nevertheless fought very gallantly under very arduous conditions. Try sailing a destroyer across the Mediterranean with a deck cargo of 45 gallon drums of gasoline to help your comrades in North Africa. Not an activity undertaken by the faint of heart. The Italian Navy did give a fairly good account of itself, especially the smaller combatants. Apart from that they really had to be the most attractive navy. Their ships take a lot of beating in the aesthetics department. I know the quote above was made in jest but I couldn't let it pass. Giovanni Regolo (a.k.a. John Rule) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "mcosta" Subject: Barcelona Ship Shoping and "Museing" Hola Joao: Yes¡¡¡¡, Barcelona has a fantastic Naval Museum it´s the Museo Marítimo de Barcelona, it´s placed in the old gothic shipyard of Barcelona, it is at the end of Las Ramblas, near the monument to Colon in the port. Don´t miss it, you have the Galera Real (Royal Galley) of Don Juan de Austria in the Lepanto Battle (not to scale, real size¡¡¡), and many intersting pieces. About the shops, the best for me, it´s a little one called "Jordi Rubio", in the Avenida de Gaudi, nº 56, phone 934 357 879, Jordi the owner has godd knowledge of the hobby, and you can obtain some rare resin ships from Poland and other places. He produces a range of metal gun barrels and photoetched for tanks, with his own mark. I hope you enjoy in Barcelona Miguel Costa Palma de Mallorca Balearic Islands Spain -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "Jeff Herne" Subject: Ship prefixes WGU is not Italy's country prefix Glenn, the Italians have much more pride in their navy than history relates.... Actually, the proper prefix is A.M.B. - Atsa' My Boat Yours in humor, albeit bad, Jeff -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: CBNJBB62@aol.com Subject: Re: Various Hi Guys Here are some ship prefixes USCGC - US Coast Guard Cutter USNS - US Naval Ship (civilian operated) HMCS - Her Majesty Canadian Ship SNS - Spanish Naval Ship FNS - French Naval Ship FGS - Federal German Ship (West Germany, cold war era) ARA - Armada Argentina HMAS - Her Majesty Australian Ship HMNZS - Her Majesty New Zealand Ship HHMS - His Hellenic Majesty ship (Greece) HNMS - Her Netherlands Majesty Ship (WWII) Also I'd like to make a correction on my statements concerning the movie the Perfect storm. According to an actor from the movie who was interviewed by a local radio station that lasted 5 minutes that the boat survived the hurricane it did after the family on it was rescued it washed ashore on a beach some where on North or South Carolina. Now he made it sound that the sailboat made it to Bermuda. Watching a MSNBC report on the true story on the movie's events showed the wash up boat on abandoned on a beach. Also the Hollywood studio's built a mock up of the Andrea Gail put it in a small tank that could be moved into different positions hydraulically and was sprayed heavily by water nozzles. I guess it's a case of double check your facts first. About the USS Liberty AGTR-5 The Liberty began life as the SS Simmons Victory entering service on May 4.1945. She was operated by a private company that was under contract to deliver military cargoes and she was used to return veterans after the war. She was a civilian freighter on the shipping lanes until the Korean war. Making 9 trips to supply the war effort between 1950-2 and returned commercial use until 1958 when she was returned to the Maritime Commission and mothballed and put into reserve. In 1963 the navy acquired the Simmons Victory and in Bremerton, WA converted her to the USS Liberty AGTR-5 . A reconnaise ship. Commissioned on Dec 30.1964. After sea trials and refitting to her new job. The Liberty was transferred to the Atlantic Fleet. Deploying to the coast of Africa and the Mediteerean Sea. She made several trips and then in June 2.1967 she left Rota Spain and arrived off Egypt on June 8.1967 at this time Israel had started the 6 day war. She was spotted by a patrol plane and was considered unindentiable by the Israelis so they attacked it. 34 men were killed and 160 wounded. The US-USSR hot line was used to prevent a third world war from occuring. The ship was repaired and returned to the US and was decommissioned in 1968 and was sold for scrap in 1970. Years later the crew sued Israel and and won a court settlement of millions of dollars. Craig -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "john mcmanis" Subject: lighter I'm reading a book on WW1 navies and am not sure exactly what a lighter is, I know its a small boat used on rivers and etc. but not much more then that. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: cwjerden Subject: Nats on the Bar-be... Howdy all, Still hot in Dallass and if ya ain't here, your missing a great show.I spent much of today escourting a couple of boys around the show, it's a hoot for me to see their eyes light up at all they see. I sometime need that kick in the shorts to remember how I got into this hobby. I had to stay out of the dealers room as much as I could today. Seems I first exhausted my budget, then went a Lil-bit-over (like congress?). I'll second Marc's coments on the underway rep model. A highly modified 1/350 Tamiya carrier, a couple of like scaled DML DD's and best of all A scatch built Cimmerom class UN-REP ship! Rusty White had a very nice 1/350 Tamiya Fletcher in a "rough seas" base. I happened up on him explaining his model to another party and got some usefull tips for myself. Thanks Rusty! My favorite ship to show up today was a VERY NICE White Ensign 1/350 HMS Sheffeild, an outstanding kit "done to the tens". Out on the tables for a few days has been a very nice scratch built HMS Hood (1/192 scale?!?Darn this old age!) I was very impressed. As I said Wish all of you were here. I'm looking forward to the SMML get-together on Saturday afternoon. I'll need to ask about strighting my slightly hogged and twisted "Fitz". Even in 1/700 thats a real chunk of Resin! Ya'll have a good one, Charles "still smiling inspite of Dallass Traffic" Jerden -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: "John Sheridan" Subject: Nats, Rooms and Vets >> Vet? Nope Son-of-Vet. My parents had six kids paid for by the USAF. Can you name the Bases??? << >> 1. Sister, born in Bermuda 1959 << No idea. >> 2. Me, born Orlando Fla 1960 << Mc Coy AFB (Now Orlando International) >> 3. Sister born San Antoino TX 1961(not Lackland) << Kelly AFB (Across the street from happy valley AFB (aka Lackland)) >> 4. Brother born 364 days later 1962 Bangor Maine << Dow AFB (Now the infamous Bangor International Airport) >> 5. Sister born Omaha Neb 1964 << Offfut AFB (Home of the good old SAC) >> 4yrs in Tucson AZ << Davis-Montham AFB (Home of the Aircraft Graveyard) >> 6. Baby Brother Born Ft.Worth Tx 1968 while my Dad was doing 13mo in Korea. << Carswell AFB (Home of the B-36 and Convair) >> August 1969 Bolxie Miss, three day in front of hurricane Camille the last force 5 storm to hit the US. << Maxwell AFB. >> April 1970 back to Ft. Worth Waiting for Dad to get thru 13 months of Veitnam. << Back to Carswell! >> January 1971 Fresh from steamy SE Asia to Marquett Mich with 105in of SNOW on the ground! << K.I Sawyer AFB? >> May 1976 moved near Kokomo Ind So Dad could teach KC-135 maintance. << Agggggh! Grissom AFB (Formally Bunker Hill AFB) home of the 305th AFREW. which, also happened to be my old base from 1981-1985. >> And finally; late 1978 Tanker branch Cheif, back in Ft.Worth TX his first base out of basic (B-36 flight crew) and my Moms hometown. << Again, back to Carswell! How did I do ? John Sheridan www.shipcamouflage.com I am not Unit# 631 of the Lumber Cartel (tinlc) If there were a Lumber Cartel, the last place on earth I would look for it would be: http://come.to/the.lumber.cartel -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: "Bonini commerciale" Subject: Ship Country Prefixes Glenn, Your humo(u)r is really outstanding ! Nevertheless, the Italian Navy, just like all the other navies, was and is made up of sailors, of men which fought and died exactly as their American, British, German and Russian colleagues : I think respect is due to those men. Giusto Gallas Italy -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: John Subject: hms hood 1/72 Hello Gang, Finally got some pictures of my H.M.S. HOOD model in the water at a recent tugboat regatta at which the HOOD was one of the events for the tugs to push and pull around was loads of fun , boy is she fast and really needs a good room to turn but was very stable and performed very well , She is far from finished but at least i can have some fun with her, can wait till i get the turrets in place and working, Thanks John Look for theses pictures shortly on the SMML site. Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: VessIrvine@aol.com Subject: Re: Military Vets Hi All: We are on this off-topic thread, so here is my contribution. I'm not a vet. Never been in the military. While you guys were seeing the world at Uncle's expense, I was buried in the reseach library of a top engineering school, for five years, trying to make sense out of differential equations, modern physics, thermodynamics, fluid mechanics and something called assembly language. On the scale of "hardship" duty, this equals anyone. Major in basket weaving? Not. I played baseball against the Annapolis midshipmen. Eyes were starting to go by them, but I was too vain to get glasses, yet. Late afternoon, heavy shadows behind home plate, me in center field, couldn't pick up foul balls off the bat, crack goes the bat (where is it going???), getting nervous about this scene, and then, two fly balls in a row out my way (easy ones) that I could not see. Plop (like in the Charlie Brown cartoon strip). Boy, did those Navy guys ever get on my case. I just wanted to hide somewhere. But then later the chow was pretty good in Bancroft Hall and I got a lot of "good game" stuff from the squids (I did make a nifty double play the previous inning). What gentlemen! We lost 17-3. Then I had a summer college job in the Nuclear Engineering Department at Portsmouth Naval Shipyard, New Hampshire, 1967. Pay was good (for a college kid - GS-7, I had my degree by then), the work wasn't too hard, other civil service engineers not much competition in the gray matter department, scenery was spectacular (seagulls, lobster boats, blue sky, blue water (Piscataqua River), fishing not bad either, temperature was cool and we didn't need air conditioning (previous summer job was a steel plant in Baltimore, now that was hot!), good seafood in the area, got some quality beach time in that summer, earned enough dinero to buy my first car and pay for grad school, got health insurance paid for a whole year, saw the launch of the SSN Greenling, built a Revell model clipper ship, didn't get many REMs. Got to crawl around inside nuclear submarines. Cool. Never wanted to go down in one though. In my opinion, being hundreds of feet under water is an unnatural human condition. Oh yes. I also helped to win the bid contract, design for carrier landing loads, wind tunnel test and flight test the Lockheed S3A Viking airplane (5 years of my life there). Hope some of you naval aviators liked my handywork. It brought you home time and time again. It all starts with the slide rule jockeys. Never wanted to fly in one though. Thousands of feet up in the air; unnatural for homo sapiens... If HE wanted us to fly, we would have wings .... Oh yes. I also taught grad school, Statistics, Systems Management and Operations Research, at Malmstrom AFB, Montana; for one winter, for the Univerity of Southern California (USC for you football fans, you know, famous for O.J. Simpson and other leading citizens). Pay was poor. Temperature minus 30F. But I got lots a free beer at the officer's club. My students liked to pick up the tab. Thought it might help them get better grades and that promotion above Major. Could they have been right about that? Seriously, I did not think it was my job to kill military careers by giving out C grades, no matter how poorly some of the guys (whose fingers were on the ICBM trigger) were in math. Give me a good effort and a gentleman's B minus was yours. You really had to goof off to get a C in my class. Two guys (out of sixty) managed it anyway. On multiple choice tests, they scored considerably less then just random answers, which to me was proof of "not giving it a good effort," especially in a statistics course. One of my students was the base Nuclear Safety Officer. When a wrench is dropped down a silo, puncturing the fuel tanks on a rocket, and liquid oxygen and hydrogen is puddling at the bottom, and the General has to send a man down there to "access the situation," he was they guy they would send. He also managed to requisition (i.e., loan, I gave it back come Spring) for me an official USAF Alaska Parka with the real coyote fur hood, for those balmy -30 degree days. His math was (to be charitable) "marginal." He got a B- also. Never saw such a happy student before. Glad all you guys were/are on the job protecting us civilians from the forces of evil. Keep up the good work. Vess Irvine Denver, Colorado -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: JVT7532@aol.com Subject: FS: Wasa Battle station I have a wooden kit of the Wasa battle station in 1/24th scale for sale NIB. If any one is interested please email me at my email address of JVT7532@aol.com This is a $110.00 kit, first $80.00 plus $5.00 S&H owns it. I have to take my grand daughter to Disney World this coming August. Thanks Best regards, Jon V. Theisen -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for having SMML at your home, why not stop by our home at: http://www.smml.org.uk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume