Subject: SMML VOL 983 Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2000 23:45:17 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Q Class Destroyers 2: Re: More Info on the "What If" conversion of the Airfix 1/600 H M S Hood 3: SHIP COUNTRY PREFIXES 4: Women and the sea 5: Re: Sea Blue 6: Re: USS Vestal 7: Heller Avenir Paquebot 8: Re: Maxwell AFB 9: Re: base question 10: Re: vet service and snipe hunts 11: Snipe hunts 12: Re: bases 13: Re: Perfect Storm 14: 1/350 Roosevelt (from an Enterprise)? 15: Base Question 16: Coontz class destroyers 17: FYI - DD-21 Land Attack Destroyer 18: Re: Italian Navy/Chris Langtree 19: FriedrichFiles No. 5 20: Ships prefixes 21: PM: Mapping The Final Frontier 22: PM: Deep And Deadly JULY 2000 23: Eastwind Icebreakers -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- SMMLcon Infomation & posts 1: Festival of the Ocean -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Warship Books Announcement -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS Hi Everyone! As you can see we're back ;-) Thanks so much to everyone who emailed us with their condolences during this time. The way that the SMMLies just rallied around and kept our email running hot with words of support and encouragement really helped Shane and myself. I will always have a special place in my heart for all of you ..... you were all so wonderful. Once again, thank you so much On a lighter note... CONGRATULATIONS to Graham Walker (of the IPMS(UK) Cruiser SIG) and his wife Melanie. A baby boy! Hmmm wonder how long it will be before young Rowan is introduced to things nautical? Might be time for Graham to make some realistic bath toys instead of using rubber duckies.... catch 'em young I say!! Mistress Lorna ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Chris Drage" Subject: Q Class Destroyers Hi all you Ockers out there, Here's one for you: Having now got the hulls just about right for the Q/R class I am going to model HMS Roebuck at anchor in Aden 1.10.43 with HMASs Quadrant and Quickmatch slipping past. Roebuck's camo is easy - there are plenty of pics and drawings of her but the two Qs present a little problem. I know that Quickmatch wearing what looks like Quillam's camo scheme but need confirmation of this Would I be safe in assuming these two ships shared near enough the same pattern? Of Quadrant I have but one pic from Edgar March's book showing the port side. Would her camo scheme be repeated on the starboard side, or like Quillam, be quite different in pattern? Any help appreciated. Regards, Chris He tao rakau e taea te karo, tena he tao kupa kaore e taea te karo....(Te Reo Maori) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Frank Allen Subject: Re: More Info on the "What If" conversion of the Airfix 1/600 H M S Hood Hi Michael Frank Allen of Hood's crew's official web site, "Battle Cruiser Hood" (http://hmshood.com) here. I was away on a business trip for the past two weeks and was unable to add my two cents/pence worth. I did see what the other guys wrote. They have all got it pretty much correct. I do have a little more detailed information to add though: Here's what the official documentation said about the proposed refit (jokingly called the "Large Repair"): The Large Repair was first discussed in 1938/39. Though nothing firm was ever drawn up or conclusively decided upon, some basic drawings and ideas were in fact created. Some of the drawings (superimposed over drawings of Hood) showed something very similar to Renown. The work would have begun in 1942 and lasted three years (price of about £4.5 million!). Of course, that was based on pre-war plans. Due to the war, it's possible that Hood may have been refitted later or even possibly only partially refitted. Our friend Maurice Northcott got to see the materials, and briefly wrote about them in his excellent book. He has since told us quite a bit more about what he got to see about the Large Repair in the ship's "cover" (now at the National Maritime Museum in Greenwich): * Improved boilers/machinery installed * Better use of armour over key weak areas (improved decks, etc.) * Improved/reworked hull side armour protection (removal of certain armour belts), especially near the tops of the torpedo bulges. * Removal of all 5" armour (everything above the fo'c'sle deck)...this would have created one long, planked deck up until just before "X" (3rd) turret. Of interest here is that there were also suggestions to lengthen the fo'c'sle deck aft to "X" turret. This would have helped keep the quarterdeck clear of water (Hood was NOTORIOUSLY wet aft). This would have given her a "Warspite" look aft. Not sure how serious this proposal was though. It would likely have depended on what her displacement was to be after the other mods were made. If she was sufficiently high and dry enough, the extension may not have been needed. * Removal of all superstructure and replacement with a block type similar to that of Renown or Valiant. An aircraft hangar was also supposed to be added beneath number two funnel. Of course, it is highly probable that as the work would not have started until at least 1942, and would not be completed until 1945, that aircraft would likely NOT have been carried...perhaps boats or increased 40mm anti-aircraft emplacements would have occupied the open area that the aircraft catapult would have occupied instead (i.e., look at the mods made to the KGVs and the design of the last Vanguard). * Slimmer funnels ala Renown * New, slimmer/lighter tripod masts * As many as 6 x pom poms (exact placement unknown...probably near either of the funnels and on "B" and "X" turrets) * Either as many as 16 x 4.5" guns (8 double mounts) or as many as 12 x 5.25" guns. Probably more like 10 x 4.5" or 8 x 5.25." It is believed (based on the documentation, availability of armament, etc.) that the 4.5" guns would have been used. * Reworked main guns (removed and replaced with newer 15" mounts). Not much info on this. * Removal of the cursed torpedo tubes * Improved radar, fire control table, optics, comms, etc. * Of note here is that the Hood's achilles heel of magazines over the shell rooms would not have been corrected/reversed. A well placed shell could still have (possibly) done her in. NOTE: The Hood site will soon have a few example drawings of what Hood might have looked like after the refit. They are purely hypothetical, but they at least take the "Large Repair" estimates into account. The drawings are close to completion, and are undergoing a preliminary review by experts. We hope to have something online within the next month and a half. So, if you can get a 1/600 Renown (post refit)...that is, if one was made...you should be able to come up with something pretty interesting. One thing is for sure, we'd love to have a photo or two of it for the "Hood Models Gallery." Hope that helps Frank Battle Cruiser Hood editor HMS Hood Association member -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Gillette, CDR Karl" Subject: SHIP COUNTRY PREFIXES Here's a list modern naval prefixes I've put together using various sources (Jane's, NATO publications, etc.) COUNTRY PREFIX NOTES ARGENTINA ARA (Armada Republica Argentina) AUSTRALIA HMAS BAHAMAS HMBS BANGLADESH BNS BELGUIM Unknown BOLIVIA ARB (Armada Republica Bolivia) BRAZIL No overall prefix, depends on type of ship BRUNEI KDB (Kapal Di-Raja Brunei) CANADA HMCS CHILE Does not use pennant/hull numbers CHINA Unknown COLUMBIA ARC (Armada Republica de Columbia) DENMARK HDMS ECUADOR BAE EGYPT ENS FIJI FNS FRANCE FS (NATO designation, not official) GERMANY FGS (Federal German Ship) GREECE HS (Hellenic Ship) INDIA INS INDONESIA KRI Kapal di Repulik Indonesia IRAN IS IRELAND LE Long Eirenach (Irish Ship) ISRAEL INS ITALY ITS JAPAN JDS KOREA ROKS (Does not use 0 or 4 in pennant numbers as they are considered unlucky) MALAYSIA KD (Kapal Diraja) NETHERLANDS Hr Ms NEW ZEALAND HMNZS NIGERIA NNS NORWAY KNM OMAN SNV (Sultanate Naval Vessel) PAKISTAN PNS PAPUA NEW GUINEA HMPNGS PERU BAP (Buque Armada Peruana) PHILIPPINES RPS POLAND ORP PORTUGAL NRP SINGAPORE RSS SOUTH AFRICA SAS SPAIN Unknown SRI LANKA SLNS THAILAND HTMS RUSSIA RS TURKEY Unknown UK HMS UNITED STATES USS URAGUAY ROU -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: BSteinIPMS@aol.com Subject: Women and the sea Pursuant to the posts regarding women, model ship building, and the sea, I thought some of you might be interested in knowing about a book available from the Mystic Seaport Book Store (http://store.mysticseaport.org/welcome.html): "My Year Before the Mast - My Year Before the Mast tells the story of Annette Brock Davis, a young Canadian woman who rejected the expectations of society and her upper-class family and became the first female crew member aboard one of the last great four-masted sailing vessels that still plied the ocean. 217 pages; Softcover; ISBN 0-8882-207-3 BZZ028 $22.99" Bob Steinbrunn Minneapolis Member, Nautical Research Guild Louisiana Naval War Memorial - USS Kidd, DD 661 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "John Snyder" Subject: Re: Sea Blue >> Although the color Sea Blue was formally discontinued for use in the Atlantic in late 1941, it was still worn by warships well into the following year on ships of the Atlantic Fleet, eg on the cruiser San Diego, this according to official observations made in the spring of 1942 and backed up by a series of photos, many of which are shown in the Warship Perspectives title Atlanta Class Cruiser by Glenn Arnold. << Dear Sir, A well known naval historian recently advised me to never trust any author... Is your observation regarding SAN DIEGO based on written documentary evidence, or upon photo interpretation and/or 60 year old memories. If the latter, then can you guarantee that the photos in question were not shot on orthochromatic film, or on panchromatic film with a blue filter? The reproduction of the photos in the book are undated, and are singularly muddy and lacking in contrast. As regards memories, my own memories (only 35 years old) of BAINBRIDGE in the 1960s tend to think of her as having been lighter in color that the Haze Gray evidenced by my own color photos.... Yours very truly, John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys http://www.shipcamouflage.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "John Snyder" Subject: Re: USS Vestal VESTAL's late-war paint scheme was the Measure 30-something dapple pattern in greens, a la the APD's and landing craft. Mike Czibovic had a photo of her in this scheme at last year's Nationals in Orlando.... John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys http://www.shipcamouflage.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: FOP5@aol.com Subject: Heller Avenir Paquebot Hi, Fellow members I am looking for a model of the Heller Avenir Paquebot Car-Ferry 1/200.I have one but it came missing alot of parts. So if anyone has one or knows where I can purchase one. Please let me know by e-mail or contact me at my address Carmen J. Balsama Sr.(FOP5@aol.com) 409 Achille Rd. Havertown,Pa.19083 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: RhinoBones@aol.com Subject: Re: Maxwell AFB >> HMMMMMM. The base at Biloxi was called Keesler AFB when I was there. << >> Bob is correct. Maxwell Air Force Base is near Montgomery, Alabama, and was a large training base with hoardes of North American AT-6 Texans during World War II. << There is a Sea B Base in the town of Gulf Port which is the next community West from Biloxi . . . they could have easily lived in Biloxi while dad drove a few miles West to Gulf Port. Or, he might have been assigned to the navy detachment at one of the local ship yards. The Ingalls ship yard is a few miles to the East of Biloxi. I've made the Biloxi-Gulf Port drive myself. The early morning drive along the coast can be beautiful. Certainly beats the snot out of my typical drive in the Southern California freeway system. Regards, RhinoBones -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "chisum" Subject: Re: base question Tony, What I usully do is go down to the local trophy shop and have them make one up. They are usually pretty reasonably priced. Randy -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: IroadkillI@aol.com Subject: Re: vet service and snipe hunts I seem to be a youngster in the crowd. I joined the Navy in 1978 as a machinist mate (nuke). About half way thru training BUMED said my hearing was to bad to be a nuke. I said OK, how about any rate that will let me go to subs. BUMED said no my eyesight was to bad. OK, how about anything that will let me winter over at deep freeze. BUMED thought about it for a while then said yes if I was willing to let them pull several teeth first. I said no. So I ended up an Aviaition Fire Control Tech(AQ). After two years in schools I was assigned to VA-115 onboard USS Midway and sent TAD to AIMD. Here I made the biggest mistake of my career, when I met my division officer he asked me if I could type, I said yes. I spent most of the next 18 years in administrative jobs. My next tour was ships company USS Midway AIMD. I tried to stay for a third tour onboard the Midway but was forced to shore duty at VT-86 NAS Pensacola, FL, were I worked on F8 and A6 radar systems until they did away with my aircraft the T-39 Then was squadron safety. Then USS America, AIMD Production Control. This included Desert Storm. Then off to AIMD NAS Mayport, FL, again to Production Control. Then to the USS Stennis as a plank owner and IMRL Manager, I was responsible for all equipment used to maintain the aircraft. Then a final year at AIMD NAS Oceania as an IMRL troubleshooter. As for the snipe hunt. In the acronym heavy avionic area an old favorite was to send someone to supply looking for an A. S. H. can. Then there was the Monkey watch as we sailed past Gibraltar. Stand by to repel monkeys. Actually that doesn't sound so far fetched considering they really set watches to repel Greenpeace in several ports. Paul -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: Derek Wakefield Subject: Snipe hunts These are a few a friend of mine - a former AMS3 with VF-31 who got off the boat (Abe Lincoln) last summer - told me he was sent out in search of.... - Portable padeye - A-S-H Receiver (ashtray) - Bulkhead Remover - 20ft of Gigline - An Ordie Punch (equated to going to an Aviation Ordananceman asking for one and getting sluged by him. Was usually accompanied by a wager) - Go sweep the wings of an F-14 (most assumed they meant with a broom). - ID-10T form (replace the "10" with "io" and spell it out) - PU-55Y form (figure it out for yourself). Go Navy! _|_o_|_ Derek "Tiger" (/\)akefield /---(.](o)[.)---\ iscandar@chatter.com o oo O oo o http://www.iscandar-66.org -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: IroadkillI@aol.com Subject: Re: bases >> Isn't Maxwell AFB in Alabama? << Its in Montgomery Alabama Paul -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "Fernando, Yohan" Subject: Re: Perfect Storm >> The real story is that the sailboat captain stayed on his boat and put his family on the chopper and survived the storm reaching his destination on his own. << Actually, according to the book (which I would take as the real truth), the owner wanted to stay aboard his boat and ride out the storm after his two other passengers had been removed, but was forced to be rescued. The boat was found several days after the storm, afloat and intact off shore. I highly recommend the book- its much better than the film (which was very well done, but deviates from the actual facts in many cases). Yohan Fernando -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "Timothy J. Barron" Subject: 1/350 Roosevelt (from an Enterprise)? Well, anything is possible.... * The Enterprise is 1101 feet vs 1092 feet (i.e. 3/10 of an inch in 1/350, which no one could ever visibly notice, so in my mind length is OK). These are according to Navy Fact File, whereas the Enterprise website says 1123 feet. Hmm. Maybe the catapult extensions, but they are not 22 feet. * All four corners of the flight deck are different, and would have to be modified. * All of the port and startboard sponsons are different, and would have to be heavily modified. Timothy J. Barron mailto:tjbarro@worldnet.att.net -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: SAMI ARIM Subject: Base Question Hi Tony, >> I'm interested in how people make the name plates for their model ship bases. Is there an easy do it yourself method? << It might get a little expensive if you get engraved brass nameplates for every 1/700 models you build. What i come up as a cheaper alternative for this is to buy brass strip, which is thin and has a 1/4" wide surface. I was also able to locate 1/8" high brass letters and numbers' photoetch sheet, designed for armour modelers. I cut and glue the name and the date of the model with 30 minute epoxy onto the brass strip very carefully. After I glue this plate to the frame of the model I drill two holes on each side of the brass plate and glue two tiny brass pins, giving the illusion that the brass plate is pinned to the frame with two miniature brass rivets. At the end it does not look as elegant as engraved brass name plates, but looks pretty decent. Regards Sami Arim -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "Glenn and Kelly Neklason" Subject: Coontz class destroyers Anybody know where/how Mike Leonard got that beautiful 1/250 Coontz class destroyer on the destroyer photos page? Thanks, Glenn -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: "Timothy J. Barron" Subject: FYI - DD-21 Land Attack Destroyer Here is a possibility for the scratchbuilders. For pictures, click on Library, then Images. The are conceptual and light on detail. It's funny that the water looks more real. http://dd21.crane.navy.mil/ Timothy J. Barron mailto:tjbarro@worldnet.att.net -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: MGross1352@aol.com Subject: Re: Italian Navy/Chris Langtree I don't know what Chris' source(s) are but the record should be set straight. The British were indeed reading Italian communications. While the Italians used the Enigma machine it was of their own volition not because the Germans forced them. In fact,the Italians first acquired Enigmas in 1937. They also made use of Swedish Hagelin machines. The British also acquired numerous secret communications which aided in the deciphering process, from a number of Italian submarines they seized/sank in the period of June-October 1940.. The German communications read by the British, transmitted by Enigma, were from varying services and the easiest to deal with were the Luftwaffe which had the poorest security and which were transmitted over the least complicated Enigma machines. However, recent scholarship (the last 10-15 years) makes clear that Italian communications were also being read and some in almost real time. As an example, sitting in front of me is a photocopy of a Most Secret message held by the Public Records Office, dated March 25, 1941 to the CinC Mediterranean (Admiral Cunningham) advising him that a message from Rome to Rhodes the day before, indicated that a naval operation would take place on March 28, 1941. Another message the next day, advised that the Italian operation would involve air recon on Alexandria, Suda Bay, and convoy routes between Alexandria and Piraeus. Air attacks were to take place on air bases on Crete while on the day of the operation there would be extensive air recon between Crete and Greece and Alexandria and Crete. Having these messages it was certainly easier for the British to recognize that the Italian Navy was planning some action against the shipping lanes between Eygpt and Greece. Recall that at this point in time supplies from Eygpt were being run to Greece, where Italian forces were bogged down after their invasion; the Germans would later clear the way for conquest of Greece. As we know, the result was the battle of Matapan, which was a disaster for the Regia Marina. I do not suggest that the Royal Navy would have lost the battle if they were not reading the Italian code. I do suggest that it allowed them to maximize their assets in the best position to engage the enemy and to marshall their forces. Admiral Cunningham was frequently given what Admiral Iachino rarely had; a real insight as to what the enemy was planning. As to the comment about revisionist history lets be clear as to what is meant. If it refers to the attempt to rewrite history so that established facts are denied that is rubbish. No one on the list doubts that on December 7, 1941 the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor. There is room to consider and debate whether FDR knew that the attack was going to take place or not. As Shaya Novak noted in his message, a new book, Day of Deceit, suggests, or even confirms (for Shaya) that FDR did know the attack was coming. This is a legitimate position to take. The proof may be weak or new proof may be quite strong but either side of the coin is a viable position to take. On the other hand the term revisionist has acquired a negative connotation among serious scholars in that it describes a group of people who deny that the Holocaust ever took place. Just as Pearl Harbor took place and the eyewitnesses, photos and films confirm it the Holocaust occured with even more witnesses, photos and film. As regards revision of the history of the Italian Navy in World War Two that is not, in my opinion, really happening. Rather, the recordation of an accurate and objective history has yet to occur. Scholarship on both sides has ignored the other for too long. How can a British author write about Matapan objectively if he does not know what Admiral Iachino's intelligence service was reporting; likewise, how can an Italian writer explain the reason why Admiral Cunningham closed with the enemy if he was unaware of the intercepted messages received by the British and what they told. That the battle took place is a given but history is not just figures and dates, it is understanding the event(s) being studied in the context of how and why they occured. The Italian Navy's performance has to be evaluated in the context of a number of factors, That they were deficient in a number of area is established. For example, the lack of flashless powder for night engagements is inexcusable. On the other hand, the 4 rebult battleships were the only ships rebuilt between the war that had a torpedo defense system which did not require bulges allowing for higher speed with less horsepower because their lines were finer. Engineering wise the rebult ships were a great success yet they were an inefficient use of resources, they were not the equal of any rebuilt yet alone new battleship of the R.N. or U.S.N. On the other hand the Decima Flotilla MAS (10th light flotilla) was not only the first true naval commando unit, it was the most successful and most emulated of the war. I am puzzled by Chris' statement that the Germans had to save the Italians; there was minimal German involvment in the naval war in the Med. If the reference is to the ground war in Greece or North Africa I tend to agree. As for the Italian Army aside from some elite units they performed horribly (Rommel himself wrote that the Ariete division was the equal of any of his German units). Chris is correct that Italian merchant sailors were heroic, especially in their recurrent voyages back and forth across the Med. No less gallant though were the sailors who crewed the DDs and TBs which escorted them. The bottom line is the same as that to be found in the forward to Regia Marina, Italian Battleships of World War Two. What is needed is a new objective study of the naval war in the Mediterranean, devoid of old myths with a synthesis of the new information from both sides. Then we can understand the actions taken by both sides and then criticism can be aimed at whoever deserves it.( Do not be fooled by titles; Skadovich, a consumate scholar, has written the Italian Navy in World War Two, which is a very fine work but it is not a history, it is a scholarly critique of other authors work, historiography). From Mark Grossman in East Brunswick New Jersey. An attorney by profession, a historian by training and a big kid by choice. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: Friedrich Kappes Subject: FriedrichFiles No. 5 Here are my questions on ships O-Q: Oilman (Brit. sail-propelled oiler, ~1985) date of completion Oppossum (Brit. destroyer 1896) line drawing Parker (Brit destroyer WWI) line drawing Patricia (Brit. lighthousetender ~1938) date of commission Plata, La (Argentinian destroyer 1912) line drawing Protector (US-built submarine, sold to Russia in 1905) completed in? Can anybody help?? Friedrich The FriedrichFiles -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: "FCR" Subject: Ships prefixes Hello to all There was once one tread about this but there goes my small contribution to it. NRP - "Navio da República Portuguesa" - for the warships of the Portuguese Navy. Example: NRP Vasco da Gama Since we are all in a summer humor vague here goes another one: FFS - does anyone guess? Yes it is Filipe's Fighting Ships Compliments to all. Filipe C. Ramires Lisboa, PORTUGAL -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: JRKutina@webtv.net (John Kutina) Subject: PM: Mapping The Final Frontier http://popularmechanics.com/popmech/sci/0008STRSWFCAP.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: JRKutina@webtv.net (John Kutina) Subject: PM: Deep And Deadly JULY 2000 http://popularmechanics.com/popmech/sci/0007STMIAP.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: "hugh1lottie2" Subject: Eastwind Icebreakers For those of you that saw the Eastwind but were unable to purchase one in Dallas, Colpar Hobbies has them in stock for $35 including brass as with all Loose Cannon Kits. There were several disappointed people, due to limited amount of kits, don't be left out on this small but highly detailed ship. It has everything but the brass Polar Bear. Thayer blue and 1/700. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- SMMLcon Infomation & posts -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Chris Drage" Subject: Festival of the Ocean HI Guys 'n Gals, Well it's been made offical this week: the Portsmouth Festival of the Ocean will take place August bank holiday 2001 and promises to be bigger and better than ever! Now there's the perfect excuse for a trans-Atlantic SMMLie get-together...let's see if Jim Bauman is willing to host an evening at his place....! Regards, Chris He tao rakau e taea te karo, tena he tao kupa kaore e taea te karo....(Te Reo Maori) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Keith Butterley Subject: Warship Books Announcement Hi everybody and welcome back!!!! New from Snyder & Short "the paint guys" Regia Marina Paint Chip chart $20Cdn/$14US Shipping $3Cdn/3US New book A Midshipman's War:A Young Man in the Mediterranean Naval War 1941-1943- Wade - hc - 256pp - 130 photos - $20Cdn/$13US Shipping for the above book $6Cdn/$7US Schiffer Books USN American PT Boats in World War II - Chun - hc - 240pp - 180 photos - 39 line drawings - $57Cdn/$38US Shipping for the above book $6Cdn/$7US USS Saratoga(CV-3):An Illustrated History of the Legendary Aircraft Carrier 1927-1946 - Fry - hc - 192pp - 200 photos - $51Cdn/$34US Shipping for the above book $6Cdn/$7US KM Aircraft Carrier:Graf Zeppelin - Breyer - sc - 48pp - photos - line drawings - $13Cdn/$9US Shipping for the above book $3Cdn/$3US The Battleship Bismarck - Elfrath/Herzog - hc - 160pp - $45Cdn/$30US The short history of this great battleship is presented in this volume. Many never before published photographs chart its most infamous history. Shipping for the above book $6Cdn/$7US Battleship "Tirpitz" - Breyer - sc - 48pp - photos - line drawings - $13Cdn/$9US Shipping for the above book $3Cdn/$3US German Battleship:Gneisenau - Breyer - sc - 48pp - photos - line drawings - $13Cdn/$9US Shipping for the above book $3Cdn/$3US German Battleship:Scharnhorst - Breyer - sc - 48pp - photos - line drawings - $13Cdn/$9US Shipping for the above book $3Cdn/$3US The German Navy at War 1939-1945:VOL I-The Battleships - Breyer/Koop - hc - 192pp - 300 photos - $51Cdn/$34US Shipping for the above book $6Cdn/$7US The German Navy at War 1939-1945:VOL II-The U-Boat - Breyer/Koop - hc - 188pp - 270 photos - $51Cdn/$34US Shipping for the above book $6Cdn/$7US German U-Boat Type VII-Grey Wolves of the Sea - Nowarra - sc - 48pp - photos - line drawings - $13Cdn/$9US Shipping for the above book $3Cdn/$7US German U-Boat Type XXI - Breyer - sc - 48pp - 100 photos - line drawings - 13Cdn/$9US Shipping for the above book $3Cdn/$3US Pocket Battleship:"The Admiral Graf Spee" - Breyer - sc - 48pp - photos - line drawings - $13Cdn/$9US Shipping for the above book $3Cdn/$3US Happy modeling Keith Butterley http://www3.telus.net/warshipbooks/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://www.smml.org.uk Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://www.tac.com.au/~sljenkins/apma.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume