Subject: SMML VOL 986 Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 01:26:34 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: IPMS(USA) ship model case rule 2: Re: Zumwalt Class DD-21 3: Re: Buckley DE book 4: Once-sunk Confederate sub H.L. Hunley back in port 5: PE for ICM Konig ect 6: CO´s Boat, USS Midway 7: Buckley Class Destroyer Escorts 8: Re: Arsenal Ship 9: Re: Confederate Submarine 10: Questions on 1/72 Matchbox Corvette 11: Lost Folders 12: Chilenan Navy camuflage 13: pranks and sea stories 14: www.nationalgeographic.com 15: Re: Chilean Navy Camouflage 16: Re: IPMS/Nats ship photos anywhere? / The case rule 17: Flight 19/a historian's view 18: USS Cyclops 19: Poseidon Kit 20: USS Oregon 21: USS Bainbridge (DD-1) 22: Revisionism for the Blind 23: Duane Fowler's Decals 24: Newport class models 25: "KARL VINEN & U-573 " PICTURES 26: 4.5" Guns in 1/600 Scale? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Warship Perspectives announcement 2: FS: 1/350 USS California by Iron Shipwright -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: BSteinIPMS@aol.com Subject: IPMS(USA) ship model case rule Thanks to Rusty White (and Aris Pappas) for spearheading the rule change on cases being allowed to remain on certain ship models in IPMS(USA) competitions. I think this represents a commonsensical approach to a delicate (pun intended) problem. Cases DO inhibit visual access to the fine detail of a warship model, and the glare from the glass obscures both critical inspection of the model and photography of same. I understand why judges want them off the model during judging. Now, having said that, I can also say I would feel immeasurably more comfortable placing a model in IPMS competition if the case were allowed to remain on. Or at least have the builder, who is most familiar with the case and model, do the removal him/herself. I'm certain IPMS does this, but this is not always the case at museum competitions. A competition model represents a great deal of effort on the part of the builder and to see it jeopardized by the case being removed by a non-modeler or (as I've seen at every Nationals I've been to) a person attempting to photograph the model whilst bending over it with his camera case hanging from his neck and the case swinging perilously close to delicate and hard-to-restore masts, is hard to accept. I had the pleasure of meeting Aris at the Washington, DC, Nationals about 13 years ago, and a finer gentleman (who has a very well developed sense of humor) you'll not likely find. We were all amused by his three-piece suit and red Turkish Fez with tassel! Rusty and Aris, well done. Bob Steinbrunn Minneapolis IPMS #3345 Member, Nautical Research Guild Louisiana Naval War Memorial - USS Kidd, DD 661 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: AandMBlevins@gateway.net Subject: Re: Zumwalt Class DD-21 For an excellent description of the proposed Zumwalt Class DD-21, see the current issue of the United States Naval Institute publication "Proceedings". Yes, it is ugly. Al Blevins -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: ALROSS2@aol.com Subject: Re: Buckley DE book >> Does anyone have the book "The Buckley Class Destroyer Escorts" by Bruce Hampton Franklin? << It is an extremely well-done book, far better than most of the stuff that has been published of late. The only plans are for the TE as designed. There are lots of photos, including the APD conversions. There is also a port-side drawing for the Measure 31/20L pattern designed for the APDs. A portion of one chapter is devoted to the APD conversions. Definitely worth the money! Al Ross -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: JRKutina@webtv.net (John Kutina) Subject: Once-sunk Confederate sub H.L. Hunley back in port http://seattlep-i.nwsource.com/national/sub09.shtml -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Bill Code" Subject: PE for ICM Konig ect hello list, I was just wondering if White ensign had completed there PE set and mast for Icms 1/350 konig? Also I have WSW 1/700 Derfflinger and I was wondering what would be a nice PE set to do this little jewel up right. thanks Bill Code -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Christer Jälltoft" Subject: CO´s Boat, USS Midway Hi all, for some time now, I have been searching high and low for information regarding "the skipper´s gig" aboard aircraft carrier Midway. No results, I have been e-mailing the different web-sites covering Midway but so far no reply. I am interested in the "gig" as you can see it at: http://www-personal.umich.edu/~buzznau/50s-005.jpg I would like to know what sort of boat it is, manufacturer, possible source for plans and so on, winter is aproaching and those dark long winter nights would be perfect for a modelling project. Anybody out there who knows anything about the boat, or know someone who might have had worked aboard the Midway? Any help is greatly appreciated. TIA, Chris -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "chenyangzhang" Subject: Buckley Class Destroyer Escorts Hi Yohan Yes I have it and it is an excellent resource for the whole class. There are no plans at all but plenty of clear photos including a magnificent one of Lloyd (APD 63) in Measure 31/20L camouflage. The text describes the changes made and the photo captions are clear and informative. I would also take a look at the photo of Hollis (APD 86) on the next page which shows the quarterdeck in wonderful detail.I would say that the book does have enough information for you to convert a model though you would need plans for 100% accuracy. Chris Langtree -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "Timothy J. Barron" Subject: Re: Arsenal Ship >> The Arsenal Ship was a U.S. Navy Project, since cancelled, that proposed the construction of a stealthy hull, armed with a maximum amount of missiles (vertical launch system) and manned with a very minimal amount of personnel. << DD-21 is still alive, and proposed to have a crew of 95. http://dd21.crane.navy.mil/ \\\|/// \\ ~ ~ // ( @ @ ) ------- oOOo-(_)-oOOo---------------------------- Timothy J. Barron mailto:tjbarro@worldnet.att.net http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~tjbarro/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: Peter Nikolopoulos Subject: Re: Confederate Submarine Hello! What is going to happen to the Civil War submarine that was salvaged this week? Are there any good pictorial books on this type of submarine ? Peter Sydney -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Ferdinand Miller Jr Subject: Questions on 1/72 Matchbox Corvette Do you know where I can purchase the resin detail and upgrade parts for the 1/72 scale Matchbox Corvette? I understand they were once available and are available again. Ferd Miller -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Jim Johnson" Subject: Lost Folders To Robert Fish and all SMML's Sorry to hear of your computer troubles. I, and I am sure most of us, have had similar problems. There are two sites that you should visit if you are looking for lost connections or are just interested in what is out there. The first is Tony Matteliano's Scale Model Index at www.buffnet.net/~tonym/models.htm The second is Scalemodel Index at www.scalemodel.net/ Both of these have hundreds, if not thousands of links that all ship modelers and modelers in general would be interested in. Jim Johnson IPMS 1788 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "mcosta" Subject: Chilenan Navy camuflage Yes the O´Higgins (Pratt in the Chilenan Navi), was camuflated in the years of the frontier problems with Argentina, the same as the whole chilenan Navy. I send you a photo of the camuflage, and i´ll move my American contacts to say you the exact pattern and color. Your friend Miguel Costa Palma de Mallorca Spain Hi, Miguel's photo will be forwarded to Mike for inclusion on the SMML site. Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "Edward F Grune" Subject: pranks and sea stories TINS I’m sure someone else has heard the story of the fresh Ensign who was assigned as Division Officer of the Signals Division. After his first divison meeting he overheard a few of his men calling him “Tackline”. He felt good that his men must like him enough to give him a nickname. And it didn’t sound discourteous so he let it go. A few days later he asked the Chief – "Whats a tackline?" “Sir,” the Chief replied, “when we’re making up our flag hoists and we need to put in a space we use a tackline”. “A tackline is 6 feet of nothing” Ed Mansfield, TX -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: JRKutina@webtv.net (John Kutina) Subject: www.nationalgeographic.com http://www.ecola.com/go/?f=&r=ear&u=www.nationalgeographic.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: roberto paredes Subject: Re: Chilean Navy Camouflage Hi Falk, >> Chilean cruiser O'HIGGINS...shows the starboard side with a 3-color camouflage paint and is dated 1981 << The Chilean Navy camouflaged their ships in 1978 due to border's problems with Argentina. Let me check the colors. >> Can anybody help with more photos and more informations on the colors? << The next week, I will put in Internet a web page with a lot of pictures from our Brooklyn cruisers, just wait! >> I also read that other Chilean warships were camouflaged in the early 1980s << Yes, the Chilean Navy also camouflaged their Gota Lejon cruiser, Leander frigates, Fletcher destroyers, Sumner Destroyer and so on. Kind regards, Roberto. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: IPMS/Nats ship photos anywhere? / The case rule >> What was the deal with Mike McFadden's (sp?) U-boat diorama/shadow box/whatever it was? Certainly the (relatively) small viewing slit would have made judging difficult. Was it ruled as "must be off"? << Bruce, I left it up to the modeler as to how he wanted to display the model. He had quite a dilemma on his hands. The model was entered in the ship diorama category. His dilemma was how to display it for judging. If you noticed the nice wood base sitting next to the shadow box with the mirror on it, it was to possibly place the model on for judging. Obviously, removing it from its shadow box would give the judges better access to the model, but it would remove the vital background that made the diorama really work. He wanted my opinion as to what he should do, but since I was the head ship judge, I couldn't make such suggestions. So should he give the judges better access to the model, or rely on the excellently rendered background (and the Catalina with the sputtering motor)? He came up with an excellent compromise that served him well in the end. He decided to leave the model in the shadow box (which is what I would have suggested) but removed the front to give the judges as much access as possible to the model. The working innards of the shadow box weren't judged. We only judge the diorama and the modeling techniques, not how the box was constructed. As I said, in the end he cleaned up, and I believe it won most popular model as well as first in its category. Correct me if I'm wrong. I was in the model room while the most popular award was being read. Rusty White IPMS/USA Head ship judge http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ "Yeah I want Cheesy Poofs" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: Jodie Peeler Subject: Flight 19/a historian's view hello all.... Craig Bennett wrote: >> out of Fort Lauderdale Florida on training mission. Called flight 19 it became famous as it added to the list of lost ships and planes in the Bermuda Triangle. So what squadron did they belong to and what markings did the planes wear. I have 1/48 MonogramAvenger kit and maybe this winter I'll build it as one. << Since I'm a member of IPMS/Flight 19 here near Fort Lauderdale, this grabbed my attention.... Although I don't know an awful lot about the planes themselves (except that they were dark blue overall and carried an "FT" tail code), I *can* tell you that you will save yourself a lot of cursing and swearing if you ditch the Monogram kit in favor of one of the Accurate Miniatures Avenger kits. They are available in TBF and TBM variants, so you can pretty much build anything you want from the right kit. I'm finishing up a TBM-3 of VT-88 (off my dear Yorktown), and the AM kits are a dream -- as compared to the Monogram TBM, which takes a little doin' to build. Do yourself a favor and invest in one of the AM kits.... Phil Gollin wrote: >> "Revisionist" has got a connotation in the USA much like "Liberal", both words to which many people will give a "knee-jerk" reaction. There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with people (hopefully academically and intellectually properly equipped) re-examining past events, ideas and conclusions. << Yes, this is absolutely true. OTOH, one reason why "revisionist" history has gotten such a bad rap is because it's often been the product of folks who place their ideological agendas above historical fact. I don't know the extent of FDR's involvement in Pearl Harbor (if he was, in fact, behind it -- which I seriously doubt from what I know about what happened at the White House that night), but I *do* know that a lot of theories about FDR "engineering" the Pearl Harbor attack have come from people who absolutely despised FDR, and/or continue to revile him to this day. Having been trained as a historian, and knowing how the process works, I know that it is as important to evaluate and scrutinize a source just as closely as one evaluates and scrutinizes the information one gets from said source. A real historian has no axe to grind and lets the chips fall where they may. Unfortunately, many folks who have painted themselves as historians -- both from the right and from the left -- have really been propagandists more than anything else. And as one who loves history, I am sick and tired of it being hijacked by people who are more interested in agendas than in searching for truth. jodie (a knee-jerk moderate) http://www.mindspring.com/~raisingirl/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: lenny crosby Subject: USS Cyclops First of all, I am a new subscriber and just wanted to say this is fantastic, all this talk about ships!!! Been riding em for the last 23 years! Does anyone out there know of a source for photos of this ship? I have found a few online but nothing really detailed. I am also searching for plans with the eventual hope of building a model -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: "Mike Leonard" Subject: Poseidon Kit Jim McCormick wrote - >> I don't know if you recall meeting me(the other smml'er at MFCA, sold you that posiden kit? Been at that kit yet? Just wondering. << Hi there, Jim! Good to hear from you. Yeah, that Nanuchka missile boat is a beauty. Late at night, when the wife is sound asleep, I go to the spare bedroom closet with a flashlight and run my fingers all over those lovely sprues. Matter of fact, women's clothes were taking up so much precious storage space (better to be used for more boxes of models), I hauled them all off to the Salvation Army! Am working on an explanation for when she finds out. Mike -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: RhinoBones@aol.com Subject: USS Oregon For those of you who are interested in the Glencoe USS Oregon I have been modifying . . . I have another group of pictures available. These pictures show the middle stages of the project and (I think) are much more interesting. The picture captions are as follows: Oregon 21 - Superstructure and hull viewed from above. The ventilators have been lengthened and installed. Both the chart house deck and aft bridge deck have been reduced in thickness in order to match in the horizontal plane with the centerline bridge. Other pieces dry fitted. No PE attached in this step. Oregon 22 - Waterline view. Beginning of PE attachment starting on the centerline bridge toward the aft bridge. Oregon 25 - Superstructure PE installation. Oregon 28 - Superstructure PE installation. Oregon 30 - Superstructure viewed partially from above. The beginnings of the life boat installation and construction of the main mast assembly. Oregon 31 - Waterline view of Oregon 30. Structures have been added under the chart house deck so that the ventilators and forward funnel both appear to pass through the chart house deck. Contact me off line and I'll send out a zip package. Regards, RhinoBones -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: Joel Labow Subject: USS Bainbridge (DD-1) The Maryland Silver Company (which despite the improbable name specializes in nautical and Civil War drawings and photos) has an excellent set of drawings of Bainbridge, as well as many other WW1 small combatants. Their catalog, which may be ordered for $8.00 from MSC, P.O. Box 6220, Annapolis, MD 21401, USA is well worth the investment. Joel Labow -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: Christopher Crofoot Subject: Revisionism for the Blind The whole business with some folks believing the tripe in "Day of Deceit" is really sad. The entire premise that Roosevelt 'knew of', and in fact, forced the Japanese to attack Pearl Harbor is founded on false assumptions. The first is that the Japanese HAD to attack anyone at all. They could have simply yielded to the demands of the US per the withdrawal from China. Of course this was a far from likely outcome but, none-the-less, economic sanctions were one of the few options the US could apply to the Japanese. Another is that the Japanese were going to strike PH at all. Most analysts DID expect some type of sneak attack as at Port Arthur but the majority expected it to be at the Philippines. The fact that the Japanese were inevitably going to strike the US was sealed in July 1938. The Japanese Army, arguably the best Light Infantry in the world at the time got their a__ handed to them by the Russians at Lake Khassan and later Khalkin-Gol (Soviet-Manchurian border). The same troops that stopped the Japanese later stalled the Germans outside of Moscow. With 50,000 casualties at K-G the Japanese realized they weren't a match for the Russians so the Northern Resources region that lay in Soviet lands were beyond their reach. What does that leave?.... You guessed it the Dutch East Indies. And the $64 question... Who protected it? The US via their position in the Philippines. Regardless of what Roosevelt did or did not do it was a matter of when not 'if' the US and Japan came to blows. You can see the same thing on the horizon with China. Strategically war with the US was inevitable...We couldn't anticipate Tactically what the Japanese were going to do. There's a saying something to the effect that one shouldn't assign premeditation to stupidity... in other words it may appear to be a conspiracy but in reality it is nothing more than human error. Chris Crofoot "Quemadmoeum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est" A sword is never a killer, it is a tool in the killer's hands. -----Seneca, 45 AD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: "Gary Au" Subject: Duane Fowler's Decals Where can I mail order Duane Fowler's Decals of Naval Ensigns and Jacks? Is there any one interested in sharing the decals sheet for those 1/192 and 1/350 for I build 1/700 ships only. Best Wishes, Gary, Hong Kong. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24) From: Stuart Robottom Subject: Newport class models Thanks to those with information on the Newport class. Good to hear that it's not a dead project. It's also good to hear that I'm not the only one who'd like to build them as RAN ships, Shane, so maybe a conversion set may be produced as well! Regards, Stuart Robottom - where it's winter but I'm wearing T shirts... http://www.deakin.edu.au/~robottom/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 25) From: "CAYETANO MARTINEZ" Subject: "KARL VINEN & U-573 " PICTURES I´m looking pictures of the German tall ship "Karl Vinen", pre-II WW, and after Frenh Navy, take it from Cartagena Harbour. Also looking for, German IIWW, U-boat U-573, pictures (later Spanish Navy G7), during La Spezia period (29th Flotilla U-boats kriegsmarine). -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 26) From: Chris Burton Subject: 4.5" Guns in 1/600 Scale? I'm following up on David Wells' message from a few weeks back (SMML 973) - David expressed an interest in seeing RN 4.5" guns (Mark II twin mountings) in 1/600 scale (from WEM specifically) for a conversion of the Airfix Repulse to Renown. I have the same interest so I've been in touch with him and Caroline about this. There are some other 1/600 scale conversions where these mountings would be useful - I'm also interested in them for a conversion of the Airfix Warspite to Queen Elizabeth (David also has this project in mind). I noticed on SMML over the last week or two that Alan Raven and Frank Allen agree that Hood's Large Repair may have gone the 4.5" gun route - so conversion of the Airfix Hood is another (albeit highly speculative) possibility. My current project is the scratchbuilding in 1/600 scale of various RN armoured carriers - WEM mountings would be very helpful here too. Due to the castings backlog at WEM Caroline has responded cautiously: if this was to go ahead the turrets would not be ready before the middle of next year. Also, WEM would require a pre-order of 150 turrets. Caroline's tentative estimate was that there would be 3 turrets per package, at a price of 2.95 pounds sterling per pack. This is a product that would appeal to a very select audience indeed (!) - converters of Airfix 1/600 scale kits and perhaps a few scratchbuilders. OTOH, it would take only a few interested parties to make the pre-order: because of the various projects David and I have in mind, the pre-order from the two of us already totals as many as 65 turrets! Also, for me at least, the long production delay is not a problem - given the speed at which I model one year is just a blip on the timeline... If this idea appeals to anyone on SMML please contact myself or David Wells off-line at mailto:chris.burton@utoronto.ca or mailto:drwells@hogpb.mt.att.com. Let us know how many packages you'd be interested in and whether you would be willing to pre-order. During September you should contact David only as I will be away for the whole month. Chris Burton -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: WRPRESSINC@aol.com Subject: Warship Perspectives announcement CAMOUFLAGE VOLUME ONE: ROYAL NAVY 1939-41 will be shipped to dealers and hobby shops in about two weeks. Containing 150 pieces of artwork of which only a handful have ever been seen before. Perhaps the most surprising is the Flower Class Corvette in late 1941 in YELLOW and dark blue. This volume will inspire every ship model maker to demand from kit manufactures those ships that are not currently available.An announcement will be made on this list at the time of shipment to the dealers and hobby shops. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Reidar Berg" Subject: FS: 1/350 USS California by Iron Shipwright I am selling my 1:350 USS California (waterline) made by Iron Shipwright (resin kit with white metal and photoethed parts). The kit is unstarted and complete with all parts. I will let it go for $150 or to the highest bidder. Reidar -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://www.smml.org.uk Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://www.tac.com.au/~sljenkins/apma.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume