Subject: SMML VOL 990 Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 23:29:31 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: Testors paints 2: Re: ANCHORS AND CABLES 3: Re: Fine Scale Modeler 4: Re: Chinese ability 5: IPMS/USA Nationals & Judging Criteria 6: Re: Pearl Harbor Conspiracy 7: Re: Pearl Harbour 8: Pearl Harbor 9: Seattle Times: New Orleans' National D-Day Museum draws crowds and praise 10: Re: Pearl Harbour Attack 11: Re: Fine Scale Modeller 12: CO's Boat, USS Midway 13: China, Technology, War? 14: CGC Eastwind 15: Things that go around come around … The Willie D saga continues 16: Re: War with China 17: Re: Testors 18: Re: Dead Computers & Mac Graphics 19: Re: Perfect Storm 20: Blue Water Navy, how to contact? 21: Re: Model Paint Costs 22: Almirante Jose Toribio Merino Castro -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Marc Flake Subject: Re: Testors paints Back around the end of June I heard this was going to happen. I tried to raise a ruckus on another list or two (not here) about it. I received some sympathietic postings on the WWI list, but I was flatly slapped down for impudence at HYperscale and rms. In fact a got a couple of e-mails direct letting me know how far off base they thought I was. The arguments varied: one guy noted that after spending a wad of money on resin and pe upgrades that a $3 jar of paint was nothing; and another said the price increase was necessary becasue of higher oil prices (which have started coming down) but neglected to explain how oil prices affect acrylics. What I said then still holds. I will not buy any paint at the new price. Fortunately, there are a couple of hobby stores that are still selling jars at the old price. But far too many jacked up the price on everything on the rack the minute the price increase became public knowledge. I won't buy paint from the anymore, and I'm considering taking my plastic purchases elsewhere, too. My resolution is to not buy any paint that sells for more than $2 per 15 ml's. Some are talking about going to Tamyia paints, but around here they are more expensive (per mililiter) than any other paint. BTW, there were a couple of people on the WWI list who have gone to mixing their own acrylics with paint bought from Michaels and Hobby Lobby -- a product called Creamacoat, I think. With the superb S&S paint chips, maybe we all ought to start mixing our own. And someone could even put together a mixing table to get the paints to match. Sounds like a good group project. Some of us take the USN, some the RN, some the IJN, etc. Just a thought. Marc -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: HGYL@aol.com Subject: Re: ANCHORS AND CABLES The inboard end of the anchor cable (at least in British ships) is shackled (through the bottom plate of the cable locker) to a cable clench which is secured to the structure of the bottom of the ship. The clench is tested to 20% above the proof load of the cable itself. Anyone who wants to know everything about anchor and cable work in the RN should get hold of "The Manual of Seamanship Volume II" published by Her Majesty's Stationery Office. Obviously, get hold of an edition which corresponds to the period you are modelling. Mine is dated 1951 (that dates my service period) and I have an older one from the 1920s which I find quite fascinating. I also have a copy of "The Bluejackets' Manual" dated 1946 (published by The United States Naval Institute) which shows on page 461, Figure 38-2, the layout of "ground tackle" on and in the forecastle of an USN ship. Some of the different terminology is interesting but it certainly shows the inboard end of the cable (or anchor chain in USN terminology) secured to the "bitter end". It must be remembered, however, that the securing of the inboard end of the cable is never used as a means of securing the anchor cable for riding at mooring. That is always done by the brake of the cable holder (and it would be most unusual when anchoring to lay out the full length of cable) with a riding slip or compressor acting as a preventer. Has anyone developed a method of modelling studded cable ? Donald McNarry does so very successfully at 50ft to the inch. I personally have not had success in trying this and would be glad to hear from anyone who has. Harold Lincoln -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Fine Scale Modeler >> I submitted an article to FSM on the re-working of a Dumas PT-109 kit into a model of PT-191, THE BAMBI later in the war, ... FSM told me that it wasn't up to their standards and yet, SHIP IN SCALE took it. I think FSM caters to aircraft and armor and couldn't care less about ship modelers. Heck, they even had an article (or a few articles) about the Starship ENTERPRISE from Star Trek and the MILLENIUM FALCON from Star Wars. The last article about a ship in there I remember seeing was an article on the model of the TITANIC used in that tearjerker of a movie and one about an ATF rescuing a Japanese pilot that it had shot down. << Sorry Mr. Connelly, but what planet have you been on the last three months? The last two issues of FSM have had great ship articles in their pages. The latest issue has the USS Oregon on the cover! I don't mean this as flame, but you just don't have your facts right. You say that FSM cares only about aircraft and armor modelers, yet you site two instances where they have printed sci-fi articles. FSM's job is to be as diverse as possible to maintain and make their subscriber base grow. You can't do that by catering to A/C and armor builders only and "not caring" about ship modelers. I have spoken personally to Terry Thompson (editor) and Paul Boyer (associate editor) and they have personally asked me for MORE ship articles (one of which was in the last issue and another is coming up). Just because your article was turned down, doesn't mean they "could less about ship modelers." The number one reason articles are turned down at FSM is poor, or less than perfect photography. I know how these guys work and I know the reason you were given for turning down your article wasn't "not up to their standards." Maybe the photography wasn't up their standards. If that was the case, so be it. Take better photos next time, but throw out the accusation that FSM could "care less about ship modelers." This is funny. You say the last ship article you can RECALL (obviously you haven't seen the last two issues) was the article on the Titanic model for the movie. I had an article in that issue on the STARSHIP (Hmmmm, I guess they like sci-fi modelers better than ship modelers, but all they care about are a/c and armor guys) Reliant concerning making realist effects using decals. It was BUMPED from the cover by the late breaking Titanic article, because of the timeliness of the movie. FSM is a good modeling magazine because of their standards. I have written many articles for FSM in the past, so I know of what I speak here. They recently turned down one of my articles because it lacked in progress photos. Fine, I sold it to someone else. Terry personally asked me for more ship articles and, if you'll LOOK at the latest issue of FSM, ANOTHER ship article is coming in the NEXT issue. I'm sorry Mr. Connelly, but your statement sounds a bit like sour grapes. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ "Yeah I want Cheesy Poofs" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: CapnAgee@aol.com Subject: Re: Chinese ability As a retired Air Force Public Affairs type who spent many hours thinking and and discussing the possibilities of various attacks, I am amazed that everyone seems to think the only way to deliver a nuclear weapon is by missile. Have you been to any port and seen the container ships loaded with their stacked containers? We know that people are shipped in from China and other countries by this method ... just think how many weapons could come that way and be shipped by train all across the country. If you've studied the use of nuclear weapons, you'll know that size (like something else) doesn't matter. It is the target and manner of usage that inflicts damage. Low yield, dirty bombs will do the job, especially if their're spread out across the Nation. Oh yeah, Pearl Harbor - - it happened, we can never do anything about it so visit Pearl and pay homage to the victims and when you're looking at a Japanese tour group at the Arizona Memorial, notice they're smiling! Ray Ross-Agee aka CapnAgee@aol.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Sanartjam@aol.com Subject: IPMS/USA Nationals & Judging Criteria Hi SMML, I spent a day at the IPMS/USA Nationals at Dallas, and really enjoyed it. The SMML get-together was a lot of fun, and I hope it is repeated at future Nationals. Thanks to the guys who put it together! I hope to attend the Nats in Chicago next year, and even aspire to enter a ship model there! I would like to know a couple of things in advance, including what are the general judging criteria and the criteria for judging shipmodels in particular. (For instance, what sort of mistake would cause instant disqualication as opposed to just counting against you.) I remember that Rusty White had some information on shipmodel judging criteria in the IPMS Journal a few years ago (if not more recently), but is that the last word on the subject and is there a place to look at the judging criteria on the internet (such as an IPMS site)? Also, when I don't place at Nationals (I have no illusions, having seen the models in Dallas and the ones in Santa Clara in '98), will there be a way to get feedback on what the judges thought of my particular model? Is anything written down on each model or would a judge have to give me feedback from memory? I would like to be able to learn from my(inevitable) mistakes. Thanks, Art Nicholson Hi Art, I think the IPMS(USA) rulebook is now on their homepage, but am not sure about that. I seem to recall that it was put up earlier this year? Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: Paul Jacobs Subject: Re: Pearl Harbor Conspiracy I think that Dan Jones got it right. I've been reading the conspiracy theories for years, but have never seen anything more than a series of unconnected circumstances, and unfortunate coincidences, which, had God been a member of ONI at the time, HE might have succeeded in putting together in time to avert the attack. Humans, however, probably could not have. There is also something about the Revisionist theories which started out as racism, and continues to be tinged with it. That was the notion, started long before the war, that the Japanese really weren't smart enough to pull this kind of thing off by themselves. We, being far superior, must have aided and abetted them, and who better for the anti-Roosevelt folks to blame but the President himself? These same folks don't see any parallel to our attack on Toyko in April 1942, when, despite the fact that the war was in full swing, and having actually been alerted in advance, the Japanese were still unprepared when Doolittle's bombers struck. Of course WE could do it to them, because WE were intellectually superior. It doesn't occur to the Revisionists that if WE could do it to them, they could have done it to us too. The same thinking blinded us to the fact that the Japanese were able, on their own, to produce the A6M (Zero) and put it into use before we could produce a comparable airplane. Reports of the existence of the A6M were discounted by both U.S. and British intelligence, (yes, the same service that Mr. Nave worked for), until we were actually in the war. The British, (yes, the same people that Mr. Nave worked for) thought that the primary Japanese torpedo bomber was still a biplane. There was a long standing tendency to ascribe to the Japanese a natural inferiority. Nothing Japanese could be better than what WE had. If the best British torpedo plane was the Swordfish, how could THEY have something better? All Britain had to do was send the POW and REPULSE to Singapore. Surely, THAT was sufficient to deter Japan. Some of this attitude may have been reinforced by the Russo-Japanese "war" at Nomonhan in 1939, where the Japanese Army got waxed by the Soviets. While Western observers had limited access to this conflict, reports from the "war" made it clear that the Japanese were badly beaten on the ground and in the air. The conclusion derived was that while the Japanese could beat up primitives like the Chinese, they were no match for a modern army or airforce. Naturally, both the U.S. and the British assumed that their own armies and airforces were superior to the Soviets, ipso facto, we must be superior to the Japanese. What we didn't know was that the Soviets were then quantitatively superior in tanks, men and planes to the U.S., Britain and Japan combined! (In 1939, the Soviets had more tanks in service than the Japanese would produce during the entire world war). At Nomonhan, the Soviets simply crushed the Japanese with overwheming force. This tendency to ascribe to others a certain inferiority is not limited to us or the British. Hitler in his rise to power promoted the notion that the German Army was not defeated in WW I. The German Army was superior to everyone. The collapse came from betrayal within Germany. This shaped his thinking, and certainly contributed to his hubris: eliminate the traitors within and Germany would conquer the world. It's so much easier to find scapegoats than admit that one might be inferior to the enemy. Paul Jacobs -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: CBNJBB62@aol.com Subject: Re: Pearl Harbour Hi Guys I have a question concerning President Roosevelt and it has nothing to do with Pearl Harbor. Back in the mid 70's I believe I had heard that Roosevelt had written his memoirs before he died in 1945 and that on a TV show "World at War" a person who was interviewed said that he had placed a restriction on their publishing: That all his children had to be deceased first. Is this true? Because I'm not sure on this. Since this is a topic what the heck. Now his policies before Pearl Harbor were certainly aggressive he began rearming the US Miltary, supported England with convoys, asked Hitler what his intentions were after the blitzkriegs of 1940 on conquest. In a speech he replied that the countries conqurored were the begining. Froze Japanese assets that hurt their economy. Also he ordered the Asiatic Fleet to charter sailing ships to be used for patrol reasons to determine the IJN movements in early Dec, 1941 as they seemed to on alert and ready to move. Also in 1941 the USN began to make surprise appearances off their home Islands and other possesions from the Phippines. That's my 5 cents. Craig -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Puckhead93@aol.com Subject: Pearl Harbor I can not credit the Japanese with a successful mission at Pearl. Magic intercepts were coming in and the White House knew exactly where the ships were. Somebody had to have known somewhere or else there was a really big foul up in the chain of command in the intellegence community. For instance, the 13 part message that was sent to Nomura and Karousio (dont count on my spelling) was supposed to be deleivered just before the attack, 1 PM Washington time. An attack was expected somewhere at that time, but because of the delay in the message it wasnt read till hours after the attack. The White House knew all this, but nobody did anything. And Admiral Kimmel and General Short paid for it with they're careers. I cannot attribuite the success to Japanese strategy or secrecy. It is a wonderful idea, but could have been prevented had other things gone off the way they were supposed to. From the USS Wards sinking of the sub just outside the nets, to the float planes that circled overhead hours before the attack began, and many more "what ifs". I guess I've said my part! Josh Mayne -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: JRKutina@webtv.net (John Kutina) Subject: Seattle Times: New Orleans' National D-Day Museum draws crowds and praise http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/news/travel/html98/dday13_20000813.html Regards, John - Seattle -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: WRPRESSINC@aol.com Subject: Re: Pearl Harbour Attack Okay Jones, This is war then, I shall somehow have to get hold of that blasted obit' in the Times. Do you realise how difficult this is going to be for me? No you don't, but even so-----. I may have taken a hit ot two but I shall prevail, so get ready for a counterattack. I am not a revisionist, but with several decades of researching government documents I am certain that there are important missing elements in the story. The best way to find out, is of course to access British official files, and as far as I know these are currently closed with no sign of them ever being bloody well opened. I shall now try and access the Times files. Don't go away. PS I don't suppose that the person on this list with clearance to the decript files could have a quick look for me? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: PT191@aol.com Subject: Re: Fine Scale Modeller I respectfully disagree Shane - 99% of the FSM issue have never had ship articles. That's why I did not renew my suscription. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "Art Herrick" Subject: CO's Boat, USS Midway Hi ! Chris Jalltoft and the SMMLies Chris, your request for info. - Vol 986, Message 6, 10 Aug. The gig in the picture you attached to your message is not the "Captains gig", but I believe a 40ft Personnel Boat, MK1, for transport of officer personnel (Re: THE BOAT OFFICERS OFFICER'S HANDBOOK, US Naval Institute Press, 1981 issue, page 99-100.) If it were the Captains personal gig there would be an arrow through MID on the bow, and there would be no boat number. This arrow marking goes back at least to the early part of the last century. I can not make out the color of the boat's waterline in the the photo, but a boat for ships officer's use would have a blue waterline boottop and the Captains boat would have a red boottop. The gig or boat in question I believe can be found in BOATS of the United States Navy, 1960, page 52. A reprint available from The Floating Drydock (see their catalog.) The book has a plan and profile view which appears to be the same as the boat in your E-Mail picture attachment. - 40ft Personnel Boat MK1 - BuShips Plan No. S8227 (2)-40-653391 - Stock NO. S1940-268-9996 - Hoist Method - by Sling (as is shown in your E-Mail picture attachment) Yes ... she would make a great model at 1:48 or 1:32 scale! Perhaps some SMMLie can supply us with a source of US NAVY small craft drawings. I would like this source myself. I am looking for a drawing of a 30ft MOTOR LAUNCH for transporting personel or cargo (shown in The Floating Drydock book (above) on page 27: - BuShips Plan No. 276455 - Stock Number S1940-268-9997 Art Herrick Westmoreland New Hampshire -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Robert and Janis Leonti Subject: China, Technology, War? RE: Kerry Jang, China, like her former Communist neighbor, Russia, lacks the technology to wage an effective war against the U.S.A. Her technology is POOR to say the least (Primative may be more fitting). Whatever advanced technology (military etc.) she has was stolen from the west! Judging from the Chinese machinery that one sees in the United States (why we import this is beyond comprehension), China has a long way to go before she can engage a military power such as the United States. Sun Tzu said that the best war is one that is not fought, and this thinking may now be best for China. Capt.Bob Leonti -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "Melea/Mike Maynard" Subject: CGC Eastwind Hello fun seekers! Dave Edgerly asked for some leads in locating reference material for building the Eastwind model. The Coast Guard museum in Seattle would be a good place to start. I believe they hold a set of plans for the "Wind" class and the price for a copy was $16.00(1990). They also hold a pretty good size inventory(60+) of plans for other CG ships and boats. The National Archives holds plans for decommissioned cutters and craft. The Hagley Museum holds plans for CG ships built by Pussey and Jones. The addresses are as follows: The Coast Guard Museum 1519 Alaskan Way South Seattle, Wa.98134 Attn. Captain David Webster USCG(Ret) Catographic Branch National Archives and Records Branch Washington, D.C. 20408 Hagley Museum Box 3630 Greenville Wilmington, DE 19807 U.S. Coast Guard Headquarters(G-ENE-5) 2100 Second Street,SW Washington, D.C. 20593 The last address is CG engineering branch at the "Puzzle Palace"(HQ), they hold plans for all cutters and boats still in commission. I'm sorry I don't have any telephone numbers or email addresses but I hope one of the above can help. "A collision at sea can ruin your whole day" Mike M. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: Ed Grune Subject: Things that go around come around … The Willie D saga continues If the long-time SMMLies will remember back 18 to 24 months ago or so, there was the thread about the USS William D. “Willie D” Porter (DD-579) concerning a Sacramento BEE article titled “Don’t Shoot We’re Republicans!”. To summarize her less than illustrious career: on her maiden voyage the Willie D fired a torpedo at the IOWA as she was carrying President Roosevelt to a war conference, the skipper was relieved and the ship was sent to the Alaskan theatre where she shelled the base commander’s residence, finally she was sunk by a Kamikaze off of Okinawa. To make a short story longer – I’ve been corresponding with the LCS Veterans Association regarding camouflage applied in the late-war Pacific. The historian wrote me a note about the particular markings on LCS(L)-122 whose skipper was awarded the Medal of Honor. I looked up the citation and found that LT Richard M. McCool received the Medal of Honor for his actions in protecting the mortally wounded USS William D Porter, rescuing her crew, and for saving his own ship the next day when again subjected to an intense Kamikaze attack. I’ve located a photo of LCS(L)-122 standing by the sinking Willie D. The Willie D is listing and is severely down by the stern. The photo is poor, but I’d say that the Willie D was in a dark disruptive pattern (one of the 30's). The -122 is in what was described by the historian as a Ms31/20L green/brown/black pattern. And Rusty; just to add another tweek to the story; LT McCool was an Okie. So now we’ve come full circle. The Willie D has returned to us! Ed Mansfield, TX (Baja, Oklahoma) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: WVeigele@aol.com Subject: Re: War with China Kerry Jang gives reasonable arguments for no war with China. However, one must not predict another State's actions based on ones perceived intentions of that State. Especially this is true of cultures very different from those of our Greco-Roman-European heritage. Oriental cultures, morals, mores, and desires are very difficult for us to fathom. As Roland Mar stated in his careful analysis, one should always deal with capabilities not intentions of a possible foe. The United States should prepare for what the Chinese are capable of doing, not for what some persons think or wish they will do. Wm. J. Veigele, Ph. D. www.astralpublishing.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: James Corley Subject: Re: Testors From: "Jim Johnson" >> Testors is owned by RPM Inc. which also owns Floquil/Poly-Scale and Pactra. They are increasing their price from $1.99 to $2.99. You and I would call this a 50% increase, but the industry calls it a 33 % increase. << It depends on the "point of view" you take in the time-value of money equation If one is to increase the price of $1.99 by 50%, one would have a price increase to $2.985 or $2.99. If the price is currently $2.99 and formerly $1.99, then the old price is 66% of the current price. If RPM is trying to pass this off as a 33% increase they are flat out wrong, from any way you look at it. The only way to pass this off with a 33% anywhere is to say that since the old price is 2/3 of what the new price is, then the increase is 1/3 of the current price. Economists generally cannot get away with such manipulations unless they are announcing the current inflation rate (constant dollar equipment included and fuel prices excluded, etc.), but an accountant who tries to pass this off to an auditor can lose his CPA certification. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: Bruce Burden Subject: Re: Dead Computers & Mac Graphics >> Always back up your interesting materials on floppies! << Ummmm, you are kidding, right? Most of my images (.jpg, .gif, etc.) will NOT fit on a floppy. On the other and, CD's are very cheap, and a good CD-RW units are fairly cheap. I don't recommend you use the RW media, since many early CD-ROM's won't read CD-RW media, but you can certainly use it on CD-R. >> This complete meltdown occurred when I attempted to put an ordinary sound card in my year-old PC. Due to this outrage, and many smaller problems I had with PC's, I decided to boycott Microsoft, and invest in a Macintosh. << Well, you can certainly do that, but I would simply change the OS. I run FreeBSD (www.freebsd.org), who's ancestor was the 4.x BSD UNIX work from the 80's. It is somewhat limited in software, in that you simply don't run down to CompUSA (etc.), but the software is out there to do much of what you are interested in doing. You can also investigate LINUX, which has more applications ported to it, but getting the right app for the right distribution can be, ummm, challenging... That way you can keep your investment in PC hardware, but replace the weak link - the products from Redmond, WA. :-) Bruce -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: Bergschöld Pelle Subject: Re: Perfect Storm Saw a trailer for this film while waiting for another. Well, regardless of truthfullness, actuality etc; Isn't weather just awesome. Especially when you don't get wet your self... ;-) Pelle SWE (In negotiations with wife about going to that film together or not) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: Reidar Berg Subject: Blue Water Navy, how to contact? Anyone that knows how to get in contact with Mike Bishop at Blue Water Navy? I tried an old address with no success...... Reidar -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: Dean_A_Markley@armstrong.com Subject: Re: Model Paint Costs I've seen a few comments about the recent increases in costs of model paints with the obligatory remarks about gouging and monopolies. While I do not work for Testors or even deal with them, I can perhaps play devil's advocate and give a potential explanation. The binders in the paints are all petroleum-derived (yep, even in water-base paints) and as such are dependent on the cost of oil. With the skyrocketing oil costs earlier this year, that's one good reason for the higher paint costs. Even the non-oil components such as pigments, fillers, and bottles/caps have increased because shipping costs are higher. Why are shipping costs higher? You guessed it, higher oil costs which translate into higher fuel costs. Do these guys at Testors have a monopoly? Beats me, I suggest writing your congressperson and complaining there. However, I really don't think that paint at $2.99 a bottle is that expensive when you are paying well over $100 for a resin kit and the additional PE it may require. But then again, enough complaints to Testors may have a positive effect and cause them to rethink pricing. Dean -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: Bergschöld Pelle Subject: Almirante Jose Toribio Merino Castro >> Remember we still have the submarine tender ship " Almirante JoseToribio Merino Castro" (ex-swedish ALVSBORG) camouflaged. << I served onboard her as an electrician and is a bit curious: Back "home" in RSwN, she was camouflaged in a three-tone green splinter scheme, as almost any swedish ship. Is she repainted in chilean service, or has she just kept her old finish? Pelle SWE -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://www.smml.org.uk Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://www.tac.com.au/~sljenkins/apma.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume