Subject: SMML VOL 1000 Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 01:55:59 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: SMML: Congratulations! 2: Stanchion Widths 3: Uglies 4: Give it a rest (Pearl Harbor, etc.) 5: Re: Shame of Savo 6: Re: Ugliest warship 7: Re: National Standards 8: Galaxy models? 9: IPMS Nationals Standards 10: Wooden ships in IPMS 11: Welcome a new member aboard SMML 12: Viking Models 13: 1,000 wow 14: Otaki 1/250 Yamato 15: ugliest war ship 16: Re: Viking Brown Water Navy kits 17: Ugliest ship model 18: USS O'Bannon 19: S.S. United States 20: 1000th episode of SMML 21: IPMS, trophies 22: Mike Leonard- The Patriot 23: Savo Island 24: Re: Vietnam Brown Water navy kits 25: Re: Ugliest model 26: Re: Shame of Savo and Radio Comms in WW2 27: Re: Awnings/San Francisco 28: Re: Ugliest warship model 29: Books for Sale 30: U.S. News: The Russian Navy's dangerous decline (8/28/00) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Nichimo kits for sale -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS Hi gang, Welcome to the 1000th issue of SMML. We'll keep this short n sweet ;-) Thanks to everyone who helped make SMML the success that it is. I'd like to especially thank the subscriber base, because without all you guys, SMML would not be what it is today. Shane & Lorna Jenkins -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Les Pickstock Subject: SMML: Congratulations! 1000 issues of SMML! I'd like to congratulate Shane & Lorna and all the members for making SMML the best! Les Pickstock. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Summers David Col 56 MDG/SGPMI Subject: Stanchion Widths Seeking the Truth: Apparently deck railing stanchion intervals on the main deck of capital ships are at 8 foot intervals; 5 foot intervals for upper decks. Are the same intervals correct for WW1 and pre-Dreadnoughts? Thanks for any help. David Summers -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Ned Barnett Subject: Uglies I happen to think the Warehouse on a Hull (the Oliver Hazard Perry's) are about as mismatched as you can get - like a containership decked for combat. Boxy may be efficient, but it's uglier than my ex-wife. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Ned Barnett Subject: Give it a rest (Pearl Harbor, etc.) Just one modeler's opinion, but could we give the Pearl Harbor conspiracy a rest? Nobody living "knows" the answer - it's all conjecture. We've heard (I think) every possible take on this, at least once (except for the idea that since Churchill was the real conspirator, the real attackers were RN's Ark Royal and Eagle and the planes were FAA Swordfish, Skua and Fulmars decked out to look Japanese). Although the PRC/next-war thread has died down, a quiet plea that we leave it there, too. May I gently request that we get the (ahem) back to modeling, and take the political conspiracy threads to off-list discussion formats? Please? Ned -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: pugs99@att.net Subject: Re: Shame of Savo Hi All, Just picked up my copy of "Shame of Savo". After quick browsing, I think the book looks terrific! Why a vet I know didn't think so highly of parts of it is beyond me. As this book is written by a living participant, I'd say that it is very good. Still wondering how I missed this one as I found it on the shelf at Borders books yesterday on my lunch break!!! This work seems to have more information on some of the foggier points of the battle. Can't wait to finish this one and see how it compares to other books that I have read. Definitely a good one if you are interested in the Guadalcanal naval battles. Regards, John -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "David Hathaway" Subject: Re: Ugliest warship My vote is for the breastwork monitor HMVS Cerberus of 1869 or HMS Glatton of 1871. David David Hathaway - mailto:David@DHathaway.freeserve.co.uk Cambridge, UK. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "Jim Johnson" Subject: Re: National Standards When our local chapter of IPMS have contests or regionals, we discuss (or at least we did when this was a hot topic) the "National Standards" question, i.e. would we award prizes for substandard models? We asked the following questions: Who would determine the standards? Are they quantifiable? Can they be written into a comprehensive set of rules? Can the rules be written so that no one can interpret them in any way other than how they are meant? Is such a set of rules or standards possible to write so that they are read the same way by everybody? If there is any dispute, who rules, or do we have a committee to pre-judge the models to be judged. Should exemplary skill in one area neutralize poor workmanship in another area. If this were possible, how would this affect future contests and neophyte modeless. We determined that if we had the wherewithal to do this, which we felt was impossible, then the time to do it was when the model(s) were entered and before the fees were paid. We felt that if we accepted the entrants money, then they should have the same chance the win a prize as everyone else who entered and paid their money. This probably does allow some "sub standard" models to win prizes, but so what? Is our organization any the less for it? Do we hang our heads in shame because of it? Most of us just say "gee, nest year I'm going to enter a whatchmacallit in the thingamabob category" and wish the winner well. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: zwood@webtv.net (Zack Wood) Subject: Galaxy models? Has anyone out there heard of a company called Galaxy models, if so what are their kits like quality wise Zachary N. Wood -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: SAMI ARIM Subject: IPMS Nationals Standards The IPMS contests in every level are open to any models. The importance of these contests are to share your models with the others and satisfy your competitive edge. And at the end you might be pleasantly surprised by taking home a trophy. The so called "trophy hunters" are not the ones who make these events the pleasant experience we became to enjoy. All of us have different levels of skill and the best way to improve these is to compete. I guess my point is to eliminate the models to enter a contest, because they would not qualify to certain standards, means unshare your creations. Sami Arim IPMS #31274 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Wooden ships in IPMS >> Where I begin to have a problem is ... should a wooden ship model be given extra consideration because of the limitations/qualities of the media? << No. That's the risk you take when you enter a wooden model in an IPMS contest. If the seams aren't as tight or parts are out of scale, too bad. It will count against you just as it does with all the other entries. >> If there are two ship models on the table with an equal number of non-disqualifiable flaws (there are no perfect models) - should the wooden ship be given extra consideration over the plastic one? Even if there are "overscale" parts that are beyond the limits of the media (let say turned wooden railing supports)? There are more seams on the wooden one to get tight - doesn't that count for something? << Wooden ships obviously take more work to get right than most plastic or resin ones (most of them anyway). If the wooden ship is a plank on frame model, judges should give consideration to the extra work it takes to execute the basics of modeling on a wood model. However, execution of the basics of modeling are given the most consideration. The amount of work and complexity of the finished model (wood or plastic) is always considered in National competition. For instance, if a Lindberg Yamato (arggh!) and a Tamiya Yamato are in the same category and both were marvelous models with all the basics executed well, who do you think should win? He who starts out with the biggest turd wins every time. It's known as the "silk purse from the sows ear" judging rule. Not really, I just made that up. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ "Yeah I want Cheesy Poofs" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Jeffry Fontaine" Subject: Welcome a new member aboard SMML Hi Shane & SMML; Just wanted to say welcome aboard to Ray Mehlberger who hails from the great little square state of Iowa. After corresponding with Ray and discovering that he had a couple of ship models in his collection, I suggested that he sample SMML and maybe sign up for the regular delivery. Well he did after seeing the sample SMML I forwarded to him along with some internet arm twisting. So Howdy Ray! And don't worry there are other armor and aircraft builders onboard so you are not alone, just keep you back to the wall and if they tell you your shoes are untied you tell them you are wearing loafers! afn, Jeffry Fontaine Bremerton, Washington Where the sun is still shining and attracting those pesky Kalifornians like a moths to the flame! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: Kurt Van Dahm Subject: Viking Models I can not recommend any Viking model after shelling out good money for their 1/35 scal DSV Alvin. What a piece of junk! Not symmetrical, air holes all over, metal castings are pure garbage. Overall I would say stay away from Viking, I know they won't ever get another cent from me. If you want a real nice PBR, check out the Tamiya 1/35 PBR. It is an excellent model with great detail. Take care, Kurt Van Dahm Westmont, IL NRG member -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "katzcom" Subject: 1,000 wow Hi All, Happy number 1,000 smml, gee who would of thought it would get this big and good:) beats the pants off rec models, and the folks are more friendly and helpful. Heres to the next 1,000. best wishes graham@the cruiser sig -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: Senkan@aol.com Subject: Otaki 1/250 Yamato Has anyone put this model together? Does it have more detail than the Nichimo 1/200 Yamato? Do you know what time period the model is based on? Ken Hamilton -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "mtilston" Subject: ugliest war ship In response to "Feed's" question - The ugliest ship I know of is the "Sea Shadow". A ship, to me, is akin a lady; curvey & eazy to look at. Sea Shadow is neither. As a new modeller, I am building HER. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: Bradford Chaucer Subject: Re: Viking Brown Water Navy kits >> Just a quick question for future reference- Has anyone had experience with Viking Models 1/72 scale Vietnam Brown Water navy kits? Are they worth the $$,or a waste of it? << I did a review with pictures on the SMML UK site of the 1/72 scale monitor. Basically they are serviceable kits (and the only game in town!!). The greatest weakness are the white metal parts which were so poorly registered as top make many unusable. The resin parts were fair to good, the P.E good and the instructions fair to good. IMHO, if you want to do a "fleet" of this genre they are the way to go. The only other option are the Tamiya and Monogram riverine boats in 1/35 scale Regards, Bradford Chaucer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: Mike Connelley Subject: Ugliest ship model Howdy: If the two models I've finished, I'd say the Arizona is uglier than the Missouri. The ugliest ship in my kit pile is probably the KGV. The ugliest I've seen is probably the Vangaurd or Rodney. Hey, 1000th SMML! Cheers Mike Connelley P.S. No picking on the Fuso and Yamashiro. They had bad childhoods. :^) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: Branko Subject: USS O'Bannon I am looking for information on the weapon, radar, and camouflage configurations of the O'Bannon during the Kula Gulf Campaign 1943. Branko -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: Robert and Janis Leonti Subject: S.S. United States To Barry Kerr, Try the web site http://www.ss-united states.com/f1.html for photos and tour of the S.S. United States, the most beautiful and sleek Ocean Liner EVER built. Capt. Bob Leonti -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: "JAmes McCormick" Subject: 1000th episode of SMML I think recognition is due to Shane and Lorna's 1000th edition of SMML. Let me be one of many to issue a hearfelt "Thank you, and Bravo Zulu!!!!" Would you care to post some of your observations, musings, or recollections on this milestone? Here's hoping the next 1k will be just as good!!!!!! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: "JAmes McCormick" Subject: IPMS, trophies Trophys are nice, but to me, I can live with or without them. Face it, if a person goes home during a contest to get a model they didn't bring in the 1st place, all because the category is empty, then the indictment is already made. I, like many, used to build for competition. Whatever happened to building for the sake of building? Some may need the thrill of saying "I built the best model", hell, I am happy in being able to say "I finished the darn thing". I am not advocating hack modeling, just do the best you can, and let everthing else work itself out in the end. Just my 2 cents worth. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: "JAmes McCormick" Subject: Mike Leonard- The Patriot Mike, Ya gotta admit, the movie does give you a newfound respect for cannonballs!!! ;-) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: "chenyangzhang" Subject: Savo Island Hi Ned I was not condemning all American historical work on Guadalcanal some of which is excellent. What I was commenting on was practically all American accounts of the battle of Savo Island which tend to follow Morrison. Morrison was a competent historian but for whatever reason got the account of Savo wrong and must be held responsible for slandering an Australian Air Force crew (why I don't know). The later writers followed his lead. You will find that someone can make a mistake in a book which is then repeated by other later researchers until it becomes accepted fact. "Oh it must be true because so and so mentions it". Chris Langtree -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24) From: john.baumann@talk21.com Subject: Re: Vietnam Brown Water navy kits Due to a lack of good models being on the market, Gramodels intended to produce their own and I have seen such a model under construction. Contact: Graham Baker, 18 Lower Tail, Carpenters Park, Watford, WD1 5DD Further to my request for drawings on French Péniche 1900-39. The following Brokerage site contains a number of pictures of 'For Sale' vessels, pictures may be found at: http://h2ofrance.com I eventually located some basic plans at: http://www.bastille.net/pnich/planbat.htm From: john.baumann@talk21.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 25) From: AJOWENS@aol.com Subject: Re: Ugliest model Interesting question, by ugliest do you mean ugliest execution or ugliest appearance? If going for execution I have to nominate my old Pyro Roman War Galley, in its defense I must say it was my first model built ever and I was about 8 at the time. Even so it did come out looking pretty much like the box cover and the kitchen tablecloth became a work of modern art (mother was NOT favourably impressed). If considering ugliest appearance, well I don't build ugly ships! I build primarily for myself so I build what I like (mainly BBs and BCs) I even like the Nelson class which many other people think leave a lot to be desired in aesthetics! My WEM HMS Bluebell and Iron Shipwright 4-pipers are fairly heavily weathered, so I guess they could be said to look ugly but I *intended* to make them appear that way... Going by looks, the ugliest I'd ever seen would be the sunken Yamato diorama (think it's still up on Tamiya's website). Horrible scene of that proud ship broken and destroyed on the ocean floor. Incredible detail even building the compartments inside the hull - I wish I could make something that well! In this case ugly is great! Best regards, A.J. Owens -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 26) From: "Ross and Michelle Mac Donald" Subject: Re: Shame of Savo and Radio Comms in WW2 >> Morison in his Naval histories got it wrong in reporting that The Australian Hudson crew that sighted Mikawa en route to Guadalcanal did not break radio silence, and did not immediately report their sighting on their return, this Hudson report may not have been entirely accurate, but it did report an early sighting. << One of my jobs in the RAAF was to measure the Earth's Magnetic field at various locations. The subject of sunspot activity crops up in that - we are now approaching maximum sunspot activity in the sun's normal seven year cycle, so we are interested to see if it causes readable fluctuations (with our gear!) in the field. WW2 also occurred during a particularly bad sunspot cycle. There are many stories of radio messages not getting through, despite broadcasting continuously, or short distances. Even with modern comms, "holes" occur sometimes a few hundred metres away. It's lucky that they got through at all - a pity about the tortuous route the message then took to arrive at Guadalcanal, though. I have read the book and appreciated the exhaustive research in behind it. Yes I agree it is emotional and Oz biased, but so is Morison's excellent works (emotional and US biased). And don't forget that Morison writes only a couple of years after WW2 finished, so he doesn't have the benefit of time to ferret out all the little bits of info that only time provides. When you think about it he did pretty well, accuracy wise, considering. I urge people to read it - it's one of those little bits of history that is "put right" for those that survived it, who were wrongly accused and suffered by it, and it proves a time immemorial fact - accidents happen. One day I'd like to model Canberra in her resting place. I guess the Yanks would get the same emotion out of doing the Vincennes, or the Poms with the Hood and the Germans with the Bismark. Just as a silent mark of respect... Rossco -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 27) From: "John Snyder" Subject: Re: Awnings/San Francisco Regarding awnings, might I also suggest consideration of a material used by the flying models folks? Silkspan is a tissue-weight material that should work wonderfully for ship awnings in most scales. Regarding sights to see in the San Francisco area: located in Emeryville you'll be just a short distance from USS HORNET in Alameda, on the same side of the Bay. Drive a short ways west on I-580 and you can find the RED OAK VICTORY at Point Richmond. At the Hyde Street Pier in San Francisco you'll find the ships of the National Maritime Museum and the superb model collection in the museum building, and the museum library. The square-rigger BALCLUTHA should have returned to the fold by now. Drive out to Land's End near the Cliff House and you'll find the preserved, shot-up bridge splinter screens of SAN FRANCISCO and a memorial to the ship and her men. In Jack London Square in Oakland you'll find the foremast of the USS OAKLAND (second-series ATLANTA class). That's all I can think of at the moment, 6,000 miles from my references.... John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys In sunny England, where Caroline is wearing her bikini (eat yer collective hearts out!!!) Hi John, Ummm, Sunny England!!, well since you start with a lie, how can we believe the rest of that statement?? ;-ţ. Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 28) From: Derek Wakefield Subject: Re: Ugliest warship model Feed... Almost anything that has "Lindberg" could qualify for that award. I don't know if I could pick just one though. That's tough, because two come to mind. Lindberg's small Cleveland cl kit may rate as one of the biggest stinkers of all time. I bought the Biloxi issue off eBay last December thinking it was the larger 1:600 kit. Wrong...this one scales out around 1:1000 scale, and is just awful. The guns are wrong, the hull is wrong (with huge honkin plate lines), the superstructure is a blob molded to the deck with only a slight resembalence to the original...everything was wrong. Lindberg's small USS Pennsylvania/Arizona kit was a supreme disappointment after building the small Revell 1:720 kits back in Junior HS (and given those weren't great to start with, that's saying something). The fighting tops were flat, the secondary guns were WAY oversized and generic looking, the main batteries were all wrong. Junk doesn't even begin to describe it. Even worse was when they put it in a PH diorama and labled it the Nevada (which had a number of major differences when compared to the Pennsy/Arizona). Derek Wakefield -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 29) From: JRKutina@webtv.net (John Kutina) Subject: U.S. News: The Russian Navy's dangerous decline (8/28/00) http://www.usnews.com/usnews/issue/000828/subs.b.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Nick Wellington Subject: Nichimo kits for sale I have two old Nichimo kits for sale, and I thought I'd post here before going to Ebay. They are: 1. 1/550 Musashi - $30 2. 1/200 JMSDF DD Kikuzuki - $50 As far as I can tell, both of these are long out of production and quite difficult to find now. The Musashi is still in the original shrink wrap, so I can't comment on quality. The Kikuzuki has been sitting on the shelf long enough for the shrink wrap to deteriorate, but all parts are in their original plastic bags. Upon first glance, this kit seems to be quite nice for it's age, definetly buildable. Because the kit is designed to be motorized, it comes with brass propellers and shafts which are suprisingly nice. If you are interested please email me. BTW, please note that the Kikuzuki kit is in a very large box, so may require anywhere from $5-$15 in shipping, depending on location. The Musashi is smaller, so I would only charge a small fee for shipping (if any at all). Nick -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Sanartjam@aol.com Subject: Books for Sale Hi SMML, I have the following for sale: 1) "U-Boat Crews 1914-45" by Williamson & Pavlovic, No. 60 in the Osprey Military Elite Series, 1995, 64 pages, many photographs and 12 pages of color plates, soft cover, excellent condition - US$16 plus shipping 2) "Chronology of the War at Sea 1939-1945: The Naval History of World War II," by Rohwer & Hummelchen, 432 pages, hardback, 1992 single-volume revised and expanded edition of two-volume work of 1972 & 1974, no dust jacket, book in very good condition with some slight discoloration to cover - US$35 plus shipping Thanks, Art Nicholson -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://www.smml.org.uk Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://www.tac.com.au/~sljenkins/apma.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume