Subject: SMML VOL 1002 Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 00:11:06 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Memorial for Kursk crew 2: Failings Haunt Kursk Inquiry 3: Revell PT 4: WWI Sub found 5: Re: A petrified piece of poodle s*** - A kit review 6: Conspiracies and Stuff 7: Re: Canetoads 8: Re: Wood verses plastic and standards 9: Brass props 10: Re: Titanic & Olympic 11: Re: Bikini Vs Leather 12: Re: German Landing craft sources 13: Mythical IPMS/USA "minimum standards" 14: UK Nat's in October 15: Re: Uglies 16: Re: Special machining to reduce resin hulls to waterline 17: Re: LCVP kit 18: Obituary of Captain Joe Enright 19: What's next for Russian Submarine? 20: SMS Seeadler 21: NAVAL HISTORY - the magazine 22: Schnellboote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Graphical IJN Warship Reference Database - Call for support. 2: What's new in the September issue ModelWarships.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Robert J. Bartolacci" Subject: Memorial for Kursk crew Hi Having served in the Navy, I feel a camaraderie with all sailors from all nations... After the recent loss of the Russian submarine Kursk, my heart goes out to the crew and their families... I am enclosing a link to the memorial site to the Kursk and her crew, and ask that we take a minute, visit the site, and remember the sacrifices that all Navy men have made for their countries... Thanks http://www.dotan.net/memorial/ http://www.dotan.net/prayer/ Bob -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: JRKutina@webtv.net (John Kutina) Subject: Failings Haunt Kursk Inquiry http://www.seawaves.com/Articles/Russia/August2000/00082401.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: GrafSpee34@aol.com Subject: Revell PT Ned wrote >> my Revell PT, I'll have a nice collection of really shitty kits << I assume you are referring to Revell's 1:72nd PT 109. Don't knock it; it's basically a very good kit, close to scale, though some detail parts need to be replaced. An average modeller should be able to build a superb model from it. Dave -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Mark Vaughan-Jackson Subject: WWI Sub found greetings all, posted this on the WWI modeling list and thought I'd fire it your way too. News just broke here in Canada about the discovery of a World War One submarine off the coast of Nova Scotia. Apparently last year when searchers were looking for the crashed Swissair jetliner off Peggy's Cove, sonar came up with a long cylindrical object. When they discovered it to be rusty - ergo not the plane - they marked it's position and went on. They returned to the site recently, did more sonar work and sent a diver down with a video camera. The boat has been identified as HMS L-26, British sub launched in 1918. In 1946 she was deliberated sunk in 60 metres of water about 10 km due south of Peggy's Cove, Nova Scotia. Apparently the Brits sunk her to give Canadian sonar operators something to work with. Though she wasn't intended as a target, scientists on the dive report she'd been depth charged at least a few times though she seems to be still mainly intact. . .they're touting it as THE hot new dive site on this side of the pond. The L26 will be included in a documentarty on wrecks due to air in Canada on History television next year. Where the heck would I find drawings, pictures of L26 or other vessels of her class? having her discovered almost on my doorstep (I'm in Newfoundland, next door to Nova Scotia) I'd love a chance to build her. Anyone know of any decent kits of RN WWI subs?? TIA Mark -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Carson" Subject: Re: A petrified piece of poodle s*** - A kit review Please Ned, don't hold back. Tell us how you really feel! Mike Dassele -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "bearkat_ind" Subject: Conspiracies and Stuff Shane: There are a number of issues I am responding to including: 1. Conspiracies, lets give it a rest, third the motion that Ned posted. 2. Rusty is right on, why do we need to change the judging rules just for the sake of change. If the present standards have withstood the test of time, then why make a mid course correction? If it is part of this politically correct agenda, then to hell with it. Rusty, I second your motion, well done and as usual, very aptly put, and as usual you have my full support. 3. It would be great if someone made a casting of four and five bladed props out of brass in 350/400 scale. On this I also second the motion to have this done as have been unable to find it. 4. Looking for the Lexington CVA 12 decals for a ship which served in South East Asia for a Vet in hospital. Anyone know where these decal sets are available, any help would be appreciated. Jack Scharnhorst -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: Tom Detweiler Subject: Re: Canetoads Hey Shane, Send me a Cane Toad! I want one for spite against the neighbor's damn yapping dogs! Best defense is a good offense, and all that. You can pack the beasty up in an old model ship kit box to fool the customs blokes. "HMS CaneToad" or something ;-) Tom in CA Hi Tom, Better watch out mate or the Queenslanders (AKA Canetoads) will send you their namesakes in droves. Just don't ask what they call us ;-þ Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: BECJPARKER@aol.com Subject: Re: Wood verses plastic and standards I hate to take issue here, but I must. I really think there needs to be a standard for a national competition. What that is, is up to the judges, but sort of like what Jessie Helms says about pornography "you know it when you see it." The perfect example is the sailing ship class at the Nationals this year, The Constitution was a clear winner but nothing else deserved an award at the national level. Sorry if I offended anyone but that's the way I saw it. I know that the conventions are supposed to be to get more folks into the hobby and so on and passing out awards helps. But there is a point where an award has no meaning if you just pass them out. Giving Gold, silver, and bronze medals and honorable mentions may be an answer. This is done at a number of other model competitions. Awards are only given on the quality of the model and a category may receive more than 1 gold and another only an honorable mention. Certificates could be given with standard medals with no date on the award like a military award. Just an idea about awards. Next on wood verses plastic. Guys if you think plastic is the only thing that will give you exact scale and quality in models you need to expand you building skills. Take a walk through the Mariners Museum and look at the Nautical Research Guild winners. A little bit of everything there, wood, plastic, metal, paper, you name it. If you as judges don't know or haven't built models in the other mediums maybe you should disqualify yourself from judging them. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: Mike Connelley Subject: Brass props Howdy: Flagship Models offers 1/350 scale props that are photoetched brass. Since they're already brass, you don't have to paint them! I got them for my 1/350 Missouri but didn't use them but modified the kit parts instead. The thing is that in 1/350 scale, the flatness of the photoetched props becomes noticable. Instead, I filed down the thick paddle-like kit props to have the proper "twist" in the blade and thinness at the blade edges leaving the blades with the thickness that they naturally have. I you can find someone who built the Missouri or New Jersey waterline and didn't use the props, you ought to be able to use them. Cheers Mike Connelley -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "J. London" Subject: Re: Titanic & Olympic These were indeed sister ships although Titanic had a gross tonnage 1,000 tons more than Olympic but on the same overall dimensions. The most noticeable difference was Titanic had glassed-in upper promenade deck windows extending aft to about mid-way between the second and third funnels. If you are converting a Titanic to an Olympic these would have to be replaced by stanchions and railings. Michael London -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: Bradford Chaucer Subject: Re: Bikini Vs Leather >> Hi John, As if you were going to post them anyway!!!!! ;-þ Anyway, a picture of the Mistress in her leatherware beats CC in a bikini anyday ;-> Shane << I don't believe either of you without evidence, which may be submitted in a plain brown wrapper BTW as I'm writing this I'm also watching the news that the Summer Olympics in Sydney are in danger of being snowed out - can't you guys do anything right?? :-) Regards, Bradford Chaucer Hi Bradford, As for the reported snow, why do you think I'm headed north to warmer climes for a break ;-) Ummm, might have to try for a SMMLcon in Brisbane for all those Sydneysiders getting away from the games ;-) Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: d gregory Subject: Re: German Landing craft sources More sources on German Landing Craft (my all time favorite subject) Warship International #2 1997 Drawings of Pioneerlandungsboot Type 39, 40 and 41 Warship International #4 1995 Drawings from Groener's book of every type of MFP, AFP, MNL. "Kampf um Die Aegaeis" by Peter Schenk . ISBN 783813 206999. Great shots of MFPs in the Aegean "Plattbugkreuzer" by Gerd-Dietrich Schneider. ISBN 783813 20558. Only book I have found about the armed "flaklighters". Focuses on the 1944 Channel operations for the most part. "Das Landungswesen in Deutschland seit 1900" by Randolf Kugler. Berlin 1989. Hands down the most comprehensive book on German landing ops. Lots of good pictures. If anyone has some other sources in ENGLISH, please let me know. Dave Gregory The P.T Dockyard -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: BSteinIPMS@aol.com Subject: Mythical IPMS/USA "minimum standards" Well, I think Rusty White has a firm grip on reality and displays a great deal of common sense in this continuing discussion of IPMS/USA and the mythical "minimum standards". IPMS has a motto of "by the modeler for the modeler". This has a connotation of mutual aid and help. Of the enjoyment of the hobby being more important than a "minimum" set of standards. Of a sense of brotherliness/sisterliness. A number of years ago, when I was president of the Minneapolis chapter of IPMS/USA, (Twin City Aero Historians), we were asked by a coalition of Chicago-based IPMS chapters to donate a "trophy package" to a regional IPMS convention they were collectively hosting. This is a euphemism for "please send money". After a long discussion at a members' meeting, I was able to convince them to donate $100.00 of their dues money to this end. This was not easy to do. At the convention itself, about 1/3 of the trophies were not awarded because the team of judges felt the models did not meet "minimum IPMS standards". Now, I ask you, who won here? Who came out ahead? Not TCAH: our trophy package ($$$) was placed in a Chicago basement to molder. Not the contest entrants: many went home disappointed with nothing to show for the money they spent to attend. Not IPMS: quite a few of these entrants did not renew their membership in IPMS. Not the Chicago clubs: many of our members refuse to attend any more Chicago-based conventions and are very militant about any more trophy packages being donated. The head IPMS judge at the time felt this was a most unfortunate decision and said so. The guiding standard should be, must be, "Which is the best model on the table at that time in that city at that convention". Period. IPMS "minimum" standards be damned, I say. And I can say that: I've been a member of IPMS since 1968, know IPMS/USA #1 (Jim Sage), IPMS/USA #2 (Richard Marmo), have been involved, have contributed articles, have supported the society, have been there for many regional and national conventions. I say let's forget how "important" our standards are and let's remember to have fun and support each other. Just an opinion, mind. Bob Steinbrunn Minneapolis IPMS/USA #3345 Member, Nautical Research Guild Louisiana Naval War Memorial - USS KIDD, DD 661 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: Darren Scannell Subject: UK Nat's in October Hi All! Just wondered if we could get a quick head count on everybody going to the UK IPMS show in October? I assume that WEM will be the main meeting place, although a get together might be nice if possible. So, who's going besides me? Darren Scannell Bowmanville, Canada -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "FCR" Subject: Re: Uglies Hello SMML This thread again?!? OK to me. Let us see ... Oh yes I hate the design of the USN CVN of the Nimitz class. What a ugliest basic box. Sorry to all the USA modelers were in SMML but I really don't like those ships. Worst ship model that I have noticed. The Admiral Hipper from Matchbox ... just don't have good words to describe it. Compliments to all and specially to the SMML for the 1000th volume. Filipe C. Ramires Lisboa, PORTUGAL P.S.: Yes, still in sunny vacations. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: RhinoBones@aol.com Subject: Re: Special machining to reduce resin hulls to waterline >> If any of you American SMML people need a source to reduce resin ship hulls to waterline, I discovered a unique . . . elderly and retired . . . in his barn behind his home . . . etc << I read with total horror this tale of an elderly fiend lobotomizing perfectly good model ship hulls in his wood shed. Oh please say it isn't true. Does he wear a ski mask and answer to the name Jason? To each their own . . . don't take this seriously. Regards, RhinoBones -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: Marc Flake Subject: Re: LCVP kit I recently ordered a 1/76 scale LCVP from a place caled Crusader Models. I received a crisply cast piece of resin with some airholes along each outside bulkhead. These can be easily cleaned up with Mr Surfacer, White-Out or your favorite airhole filler. The ramp is cast separately and can be posed open or closed. The kit also has two white metal machine guns. It only cost $14. They also have LCAs and LCP(R)s(both $14), and a Japanese Daihatsu Army Barge ($19). Be sure to print off a 10 percent "End of Summer Sale" coupon before mailing off your order. You can look at their catalog at: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/9730/crusader.html As I recall, this shop takes a while to send your order. I can't remember how long mine took, but I do remember I had to send off an email asking about the status of my order. I also ordered a truck, which was rather basic and best used for wargaming. Good hunting. Marc -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: RhinoBones@aol.com Subject: Obituary of Captain Joe Enright fyi - Below is the obituary of another of our WW II veterans. It was extracted from today's new wire. Please keep in mind that the exploits described here were the efforts of a crew, a military force and a nation. Literally thousands of veterans and civilian support deserve a piece of the credit. Regards, RhinoBones >> Friday, August 25, 2000 The Daily Telegraph/ Obituary of Captain Joe Enright/ American commander whose torpedoes sank the biggest ship ever accounted for by a submarine Source: Europe Intelligence Wire Europe Intelligence Wire via NewsEdge Corporation : CAPTAIN JOE ENRIGHT, of the US Navy, who has died aged 89, commanded the submarine USS Archerfish which sank the 60,000 ton Japanese aircraft carrier Shinano - the largest ship ever sunk by a submarine. On November 28 1944, Archerfish was 100 miles south of Honshu when just before 9 pm she had a radar contact of a large ship travelling fast along the coast. Enright surfaced to try to gain a firing position ahead of the contact, signalling as he did so to Admiral Lockwood, ComSubPac, who replied: "Keep after him Joe, your picture is on the piano!" It was Shinano, escorted by four destroyers, on passage at 20 knots for trials in the Inland Sea, where it was thought she would be safer from air attack. Just after 3 am on November 29, Shinano altered course across Archerfish's bows. Enright dived and fired a salvo of six torpedoes, of which four hit. "I saw a huge fireball erupt near the stern of the target," Enright said. "Then we heard the noise of the first hit, carried to us through the water. 'Got 'em!' I yelled. Through the periscope, I saw the second explosion rip the target's hull eight seconds later. "Yahoooo!' I cried." Converted from the hull of a Yamato Class battleship, and designed to operate 47 aircraft, Shinano had armour 2 ft thick on her sides and was considered virtually invulnerable. But Archerfish's torpedoes struck below the armour belt. Shinano had been only 10 days in commission. Her crew had not been to sea in her before or trained together as a ship's company. Doors were not watertight and bulkheads had hundreds of holes in them. Flooding spread rapidly. All power failed at about 6 am. Human bucket chains were formed but soon melted away. Discipline broke down. Men began to assemble on the flight deck, waiting for the end, which came just before 11 am when Shinano rolled over and sank. She had been in the open sea for less than 20 hours. Of the 2,215 men on board, the destroyers picked up 1,080. Archerfish was depth-charged but not damaged. Enright was awarded the Navy Cross, Archerfish a Presidential Unit Citation. Joseph Francis Enright was born on September 18 1910 and graduated from the Naval Academy, Annapolis, in 1933. He served three years in the battleship Maryland before volunteering for submarine training. For six years, he served in submarines and made five Pacific war patrols. His first command in 1942 was the 1918-vintage boat O-10, and he became known as "Oh Boat Joe of the Oh-One-Oh". In March 1943, he was assigned as CO of the new submarine Dace. In November, Dace was on patrol off Honshu when Enright received an Ultra signal giving the position, course and speed of the aircraft carrier Shokaku, a "villain" of Pearl Harbor. Enright went by the book instead of following instinct, failed to achieve an attacking position and Shokaku passed safely by. In an almost unheard-of appeal, Enright asked to be relieved of his command. The Navy took him at his word and Enright was sent to the submarine base on Midway Island. But he was too good a CO to be passed over permanently, and in September 1944 was assigned to Archerfish. On September 2 1945, Archerfish had the honour of standing by alongside the tender Proteus in Tokyo Bay for the Japanese surrender on board the battleship Missouri. Most of Enright's post-war assignments were in submarines. In 1957 he was assigned as Chief of Staff to Commander Force Atlantic Fleet. In 1959-60, he was in command of the guided missile cruiser Chicago. After retiring in 1963, he worked on the development of the Omega Long-Range Navigation System. In 1987 he published, with James W Ryan, Shinano!: the Sinking of Japan's Secret Supership. He married, in 1936, Virginia Robertson. They had a son, Joe Jr. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: RhinoBones@aol.com Subject: What's next for Russian Submarine? Below is an article off today's news wire concerning the clean up of the Kursk tragedy. Thought it would be of interest to the SMML collective. I suspect that over the next few years this subject will be making occasional appearances in the headlines. Regards, RhinoBones Friday, August 25, 2000 What's next for Russian submarine? Source: The Associated Press OSLO, NORWAY - AP World News via NewsEdge Corporation : With the rescue operation at an end, experts cautioned Thursday that any attempt to raise the sunken Russian nuclear submarine will need at least a year to plan and must be weighed against the environmental risk from any possible radiation leak. ``Theoretically, just lifting a submarine from the seabed should be possible,'' said Julian Thomson, spokesman for Stolt Offshore oil services company. ``But no one has ever lifted a nuclear submarine before, and that opens all kinds of questions.'' Thomson, whose company sent deep-sea divers and a sophisticated ship to help with rescue efforts and is discussing the salvage operation with the Russians, said the questions include the state of the two nuclear reactors, torpedoes and other munitions on board. Norway, which shares land and water borders with Russia has kept a nervous eye on radiation levels in the rich fishing grounds of the Barents Sea near the wreck, so far has recorded no increase. But the country, a member of NATO, has urged Russia to proceed with caution in any salvage operation. Among other things, experts would have to determine whether the vessel, which was badly damaged in two explosions on Aug. 12, could withstand the pressures of being raised. ``This is no longer a rescue operation. There is no longer a hurry. They need to take the time needed to carefully evaluate the risks,'' said Per Strand of the government's nuclear protection board. ``Any problem (with radiation leaks) would probably be a few decades ahead.'' Almost as soon as the British-Norwegian diving team determined that the Kursk was full of water and all 118 aboard were dead, the Russian navy asked Stolt Offshore to assess ways of raising the 14,000-ton submarine. Thomson said it would take weeks or months for his company to even assess the chances of raising the submarine and that the probably couldn't start until next summer. ``We would need a weather window, and winter is coming,'' he said. Fierce winter storms often whip the arctic waters where the Kursk now lies under 108 meters (350 feet) of water. The Norwegian environmental group Bellona, which specializes in the nuclear problems of Russia's Northern Fleet, warned in a report that ``the explosions that hit Kursk might very well have made severe damage to the reactors themselves'' or to cooling and control systems. The fishing industry also was on alert as fears of contaminated fish _ even if unfounded _ could having consumers shunning that key export in this Nordic nation of 4.5 million. Bellona joined the nation's fishing industry on Thursday in releasing daily reports on radiation levels in fish caught in the Barents Sea. The first sample, taken from a fish captured a day after the Kursk accident, showed no radiation, Bellona said. Strand said there does not appear to be any immediate radiation risk from the wrecked submarine, and Russian officials have said no nuclear weapons were on board and the submarine's reactors were shut off. ``We have taken samples near and inside the submarine, and have found no traces of a radioactive leak,'' Strand said. ``That is a very good indication that the safety systems worked and the reactors were shut down.'' Norway was able to take water samples from inside the Kursk when the deep-sea divers opened its escape hatch to confirm that the crew had died on Monday. Strand said Norway was continuing its monitoring program. He said there are two options in dealing with submarine. It could be raised, partly because the Russians want to recover their dead, or it could be left on the ocean floor and covered over, for example with a concrete capsule. ``No matter what they do, it has to be well planned,'' he said. ``Moving the submarine poses its own risks.'' -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: RhinoBones@aol.com Subject: SMS Seeadler e-Bay has an old Revell plastic model named SMS Seeadler (Sea Eagle) up for bid at approximately $10. The ship is supposed to be a WWI German raider . . . can anyone provide a bit of history on this ship and/or an opinion whether this model is worth the price plus postage? Regards, RhinoBones -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: "Ken Goldman" Subject: NAVAL HISTORY - the magazine I recently received the October 2000 issue of NAVAL HISTORY, published by USNI Press, and was dismayed to find more than 10% of its non-advertising pages (plus the cover) devoted to part one of a juvenile fiction story. The quality of the writing is irrelevant. What I thought I was subscribing to was a journal of naval fact. If some of the other SMMLers out there are also subscribers and object this watering down of a prized resource, I suggest you write to the editor as I have done: Fred L. Schultz, Editor in Chief Naval History US Naval Academy, Beach Hall 291 Wood Road Annapolis, Maryland 21402-5034 Ken Goldman THE WALRUS AND THE CARPENTER unique wood sculpture and fine scale models www.walruscarpenter.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: Douglas Bauer Subject: Schnellboote Does anyone know if the German S-boats (E-boats) were wooden hulled, with a wooden main deck, or steel construction throughout? Doug Bauer Poway, CA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "JEL" Subject: Graphical IJN Warship Reference Database - Call for support. I Made a major update in the Reference pages of my web page "Mechanisms of Imperial Japanese Navy Warships in 3-D". http://www.ijn.dreamhost.com/index.html. My two loves with the Imperial Japanese Navy are building ship models and collecting books on the IJN. To help in the latter, I have started scanning in the covers of all the books in my library. This is a major effort and I have already placed over 300 reference-related images on my web pages. A graphical reference list is both more pleasing to visit and helpful in book identification - especially those books published in a foreign language. I am hoping that my visitors (especially those from Japan - where books are hard to obtain) can also contribute. If you are interesting in helping. My only request is to sent me the images in JPG format with a top dimensions of 140 pixel (i.e. 140x90, 140x88. The second dimension being determined by the shape of the book). A short description of the book (author, title, publisher, date of publication, ISBN#, etc.) would also be appreciated. You will also be given credit for the reference whenever possible. Please only sent information on books which relates to the IJN in W.W.II. Thanks !! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Timothy Dike Subject: What's new in the September issue ModelWarships.com New Features; Kelly Quirk shows us how he built the 1/350 USS Enterprise CVN-65 that was part of his incredible Diorama that won first place at the Dallas IPMS National Convention last month. The Guadalcanal Feature has been expanded with "A prelude to Battle" and "Building the USS Helena in 1/700 scale" New Reviews; A look at Plastic Ship Modeler magazine Dragons's 1/700 Light Carrier Independence CVL-22 Fujimi's 1/700 USS Lexington CV-2 Kobo-Hiryu's 1/700 Mahan Class Destroyer in resin Classic Warships photo etched destroyer details in 1/700 scale Floating Drydock's USS Cushing Blueprints The Gallery is open complete with thumbnail previews in a frame set that should make viewing more enjoyable. The new Gallery includes, more photo's from Kelly Quirk's Diorama including the USS Yorktown and Fletcher Class DD in 1/350 scale, The USS New Jersey (the other half of that UNREP Dio in the feature section above), and some of my stuff to fill out the pages. Anyone with pictures of their ships that they would like to see added to the Gallery is encouraged to send them in (I'll create the thumbnail views). Some features have been delayed and will be added shortly, but don't let that stop you from checking it out. As always the URL is http://www.modelwarships.com/index1.html Regards, Timothy Dike Webmaster and Editor ModelWarships.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://www.smml.org.uk Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://www.tac.com.au/~sljenkins/apma.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume