Subject: SMML VOL 1003 Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 01:14:21 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: USS O'Bannon 2: Re: Olympic and Titanic? 3: Re: Schnellboote 4: Re: Submarine L26 5: Minimum Standards Be Damned 6: Re: Ugly ships 7: Re: Kursk 8: wood ships & judging 9: Missouri 10: IPMS UK 11: Re: Seeadler 12: Re: Joe Enright 13: Re: Kursk 14: working model torpedoes 15: UK nats 16: Re: Uglies 17: Heavy Seas 18: Re: Special machining to reduce resin hulls to waterline 19: RC Pumps Thanks 20: That 1/76 scale LCVP... 21: SMS 'Seeadler' 22: Uglies -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: CBNJBB62@aol.com Subject: Re: USS O'Bannon Hi Guys About the USS O'Bannon weapons systems at Kula Gulf in 1943. All my research points to her having starting at the bow 2 5/38 guns and then before the bridge 2-20mm guns with 1-20 mm on top the bridge and 1-20mm on a platform below the windows. Between the stacks were 2 sets of 5 torpedo tubes with 4 20 mm guns behind shields on each side on the ship. Then behind the 3rd 5/38 gun was a platform above the guns with a twin 40 mm gun followed by 2 5/38 guns with a tear shaped gun tube for 2nd twin 40 mm gun with director and then depth charge racks. I believe the radar was SC. Craig Bennett -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: CBNJBB62@aol.com Subject: Re: Olympic and Titanic? Hi Concerning the Olympic and Titanic. Yes, they're sister ships. They also had a 3rd sister Britannic. Titanic was supposed to a little longer than the Olympic. When the Britannic was built she carried all the improvements. Craig Bennett -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: ALROSS2@aol.com Subject: Re: Schnellboote >> Does anyone know if the German S-boats (E-boats) were wooden hulled, with a wooden main deck, or steel construction throughout? << They were of composite construction; that is, metal frames with wooden planking. For a discussion of their construction, get a copy of Harold Fock's Fast Fighting Boats, 1870-1945. Al Ross -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "J. London" Subject: Re: Submarine L26 Sources of info on L26 are Jane's Fighting Ships 1919, which has a photo of sister ship L20, and the 1938 edition with photo of L23. She was one of the few WW 1 subs to serve in WW 2 and was one of the last of her class to be disposed of. Michael London -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Ned Barnett Subject: Minimum Standards Be Damned I've refrained from these discussions for reasons about to become known: 1. I joined IPMS (a local in Atlanta) in 1966 - I think I was their "mascot," as I was a Sophomore in HS at the time. 2. I won two awards in local competition - the thrill turned me into a die-hard lifetime modeler 3. I joined IPMS/USA while in college; thanks to some volunteer work (see below), I'm a lifetime member 4. I was the Editor of the IPMS Quarterly for Volume 13 (representing about 18 months of my life); and I was Nat'l Secretary for two terms (hence the lifetime membership - it's a bribe the society offers those who give up their time for the Society) 5. I've won national IPMS Convention awards, and scads of local/regional awards (to the point where I turned award plaques into diorama bases) before I stopped competing after winning a couple of National Awards in '83 - I figured, quit while you're ahead (damned glad I did, too ). 6. I was a judge at two or three National Conventions - damn near got punched out by one modeler who (at the Royal Canadian Beer Blast) took issue with my help in awarding him a third in category, rather than best in show. OK, with that said, IPMS is about modelers. It's about a hobby. It's about fun. As a former judge, unless someone can bring me a notarized document establishing who died and made this joker a god (not God, just a god), I defy anyone to determine what is a "minimum standard." It's freakin' hard enough for a panel of judges to determine which model in a category is the best, second best, etc. - there are so many nuances, so many subtle biases (and overt biases - hell, judges are human, too ... well, sort of) ... how can ANYONE (even the panel of all the judges) set themselves up to say that no model in a category is worth getting an award? Can't be done. However, to try to do so violates an implied contract - if you pay your money to enter, you have a chance to win an award... all you have to do is be among the top-three best in your category. That's the deal. Anything else is a breach of faith, and as the report on the Chicago convention showed, anything else only breeds ill will. IMO Ned -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: Ives100@aol.com Subject: Re: Ugly ships >> Let us see ... Oh yes I hate the design of the USN CVN of the Nimitz class. What a ugliest basic box. Sorry to all the USA modelers were in SMML but I really don't like those ships. << You think that's bad, you should see the box they come in when the Navy buys them!! Tom Dougherty -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: CBNJBB62@aol.com Subject: Re: Kursk Hi Guys I was talking to a guy at work and on Cspan at late night he told me that they put on a Russian news report and in the translation said that the Kursk was sunk by new advanced experimental torpedo and said it was learned thru a high ranking official who's name wasn't used. Has any one else seen this report? Craig Bennett -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: James Corley Subject: wood ships & judging Charlie Said: >> Next on wood verses plastic. [snip] If you as judges don't know or haven't built models in the other mediums maybe you should disqualify yourself from judging them. << If that were the case this year, would the Best Ship (wood model of the Pinta) have changed? I have built with wood, but certainly not enough ships (mostly balsa aircraft) to feel competent to judge ships as you suggest. Is this an easy way to get around the rules? Everybody gets together and declares themselves unable to judge a group of entries because of a lack of building experience? Sticky Widget, indeed. JZ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "bearkat_ind" Subject: Missouri In San Diego, California, USA, is the base home for part of the Pacific fleet. There are many retired Navy personnel living there. In Pacific Beach, there is a large sea inlet that allows scale model ship builders to litterally put their ships to sea. Have seen the Nimitz, Missouri and a nuclear sub all sailing around the modified bay. What was most interesting was the Missouri as it was fully rc controlled, the turrets rotated and the guns fired blanks (22 cb caps) the ship was approximately 14 feet long and everything appeared to be in full scale. I asked the owner how long it took to build her and to work out all the bugs, and it was over 10 years. Told him he could sell the plans for the ship and make some real money, but did not seem to interest him. It was a total scratch build and very very impressive. Think though the most fun occurred when the submarine submerged and this retired Navy Captain was yelling, don't you dare fire at my battleship. A really fun event. Given the gun laws in California, he now has to file for a permit to build a firearm, license the ship as a lethal weapon even though it fires movie prop blanks. Sometimes our legislators just go to far and it is time to put an end to all the horseplay, if you get my drift. Reality needs to set in someplace. Getting back to the Missouri, it was terrific seeing the screws turning up a wake like the full sized battleship. Apparently it was or will be used in a movie as a scaled model it was that good. The construction was plywood covered with fiberglass or other similar construction and was absolutely flawless in every respect, being an engineer it was remarkable what someone without formal training and design experience could do with his mind and hands. This therefore is a tribute to all scale modelers who go that extra inch to make the model just one step better than the rest. Jack -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: James Corley Subject: IPMS UK Darren, I will be there!! All SMMLies beware, especially that John Sheridan if he takes his SALEM! Arrgh.... JZ ;-} -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: Roland Mar Subject: Re: Seeadler The SMS Seeadler [Sea Eagle] was a sailing ship converted to an auxiliary cruiser [hilfeskreuzer] and used as a commerce raider. Commanded by the highly unorthodox Count Felix von Luckner, she had a very successful career until wrecked by a tidal wave in the Pacific. That did not end their activities as they took to open boats and continued the fight, capturing other vessels. Lowell Thomas wrote a book, long out of print unfortunately, titled COUNT LUCKNER,THE SEA DEVIL that is well worth the search to read. I don't know how accurate the Revell model is, but the history attached to it would make it worth more than a little effort to build it. Roland Mar -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: Roland Mar Subject: Re: Joe Enright I had the pleasure and privilege of meeting and talking with Captain Enright at a seminar at the Naval Postgraduate School in the 1980's. His passing is a great loss. Nugget ensigns could do far worse than trying to model their careers after his. Roland Mar -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Roland Mar Subject: Re: Kursk You might want to look at http://www.bellona.no for data on radiation releases from Kursk and the scores of other Soviet/Russian naval reactors around Norway. Roland Mar -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: Richard Wootten Subject: working model torpedoes has anyone any experience of making torpedoes to 1/24 scale, i.e.about 1 inch dia and 12 ins long. I'm not looking for long range,say from about 20ft out to the pool-side. No explosive warheads, and I do want to get it back. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "katzcom" Subject: UK nats Well I will be there with the Cruiser SIG stand we will be next to the Battleship SIG, some where near the Carrier SIG, and my be the ESCORT Sig will be there(this last one is just forming). best wishes graham. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "katzcom" Subject: Re: Uglies worst model eh must be Revels Prinz Eugen, god I seen better dog **** than this. graham @the cruiser sig -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: TechnoInfidel@webtv.net (John Collins) Subject: Heavy Seas SMMLmates: I have a question. I would like to build a sea base with heavy seas for an upcoming project. I think I've mastered making the standard waves, wakes, ripples, bow waves, etc. But I would like to model a ship crashing through the crest of a wave with bow exposed or coming down the back side of the wave and burying the bow into the next wave. How does one model the spray and water cascading over the ship? I have some ideas, but would like to hear some tried and true techniques from someone who has attempted such a seascape. Does anyone have access to some photos of ships (or a site) doing this? Thanks John Collins -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: SantMin@aol.com Subject: Re: Special machining to reduce resin hulls to waterline >> ctly good model ship hulls in his wood shed. Oh please say it isn't true. Does he wear a ski mask and answer to the name Jason? To each their own . . . don't take this seriously. << I didn't wear my ski mask when Yesterday I bandsawed the bottom off another Iron Shipwrights resin hull (seems like a lot of work was done on that part of a ship that never shows).Oh well, into the pile of other hull bottoms! Did you ever notice how out of proportion most old prisionor-of-war models are, all made by sailors who sailed those same ships, and never once ever saw their bottoms>>> Cheers, Bob Santos -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: pepe@ns.sympatico.ca Subject: RC Pumps Thanks Thanks to all who replied to my question regarding pumps for RC boats. Thanks again, rolie in Nova Scotia, home of the Bluenose and HMCS Sackville -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: "Bill & Kaja Michaels" Subject: That 1/76 scale LCVP... So you paid $20, and thought it was a bad kit..... My local shop has the kit, and they priced it at $29! I should thank them-- at that price, I decided it was too much to take a chance on an unknown-- I guess they did me a favor! Bill Check out my US Coast Guard subjects model list at: http://www.tiac.net/users/billkaja/kitlist.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: "Tony Ireland" Subject: SMS 'Seeadler' Hi, Re RhinoBones' query in SMML Vol 1002 concerning the WW1 German mercantile raider 'Seeadler. This sailing vessel was commanded by Count Ferdinand von Luckner, a flamboyant aristocratic kind of captain who became a bit of a hero here in New Zealand. His windjammer must have been unique in actually capturing one or more British merchant vessels, and I believe he treated his prisoners in the most gentlemanly manner. Can't recall the details, but he and his crew were eventually captured and interned in the North Island of New Zealand. But they broke out, stole a sailing scow, and headed off to freedom in a S.W.Pacific island, either the Kingdom of Tonga - or maybe the ex-German colony of Western Samoa. Or possibly the Chatham Islands to the east of N.Z. They didn't get very far, however, and were locked up again more securely here in N.Z. Have an idea that von Luckner either nicknamed himself 'Sea Devil' - or was dubbed thus by the newspapers. After WW1 he paid a triumphant visit to New Zealand in the 1920's. Quite a guy. A con artist who cleverly bluffed enemy skippers. Faintly recall reading long ago a book by him recounting his war-time adventures in the S/V 'Seeadler'. Possibly entitled 'The Sea Devil', and locatable in a good library. Can't recall whether he actually set out from Germany on his raiding cruise, or if the outbreak of war in 1914 caught him somewhere in the Far East, or in German East Africa. It makes an excellent yarn, anyway. I think lots of Kiwi seafarers would think the model was worth buying. Congratulations on your millennium Volume! Cheers, Tony -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: "Nigel Ward" Subject: Uglies Shane, Thoughts about uglies! The French Navy in the 1890's specialised in the production of BIZARRE battleships, not only 1 - offs but whole classes, ie Jemappes class ( total 4 ships ). Some, the designers must have regretted as soon as they saw them in metal. Charles Martel and Jaureguiberry look bad, but the worst must be the Hoche of 1890. This barbette ship was 11 years in construction. The typical french tumble-home and built up superstructure led to severe stability problems remedied by removing its heavy fighting masts in 1898-1900. Its service career wasn't too good either, sinking a steamer in 1892, damaged hitting a drydock in 1897 and hitting a rock in Quiberon bay in 1898. (Same place that the battleship France was lost in 1922?). Its soooo ugly that I want to model it!!!. Does anyone know of any plans?, or plans for any French Navy battleships of this era? Dave Ward -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://www.smml.org.uk Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://www.tac.com.au/~sljenkins/apma.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume