Subject: SMML VOL 1011 Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 01:23:53 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: Kit manufacturers - New kit 2: 5/38 cal gun mounts 3: Re: Tre Koner/Gota Legon 4: Re: 5"/38 Mounts 5: Ken Goldman and Naval History 6: Pearl Harbor and Crap (not) 7: HMCS Warrior/Magnificent 8: Re: Away All Boats 9: Re: Pearl Harbor will be crap! 10: Color of Heller's Sorcouf submarine 11: Picture of Kirov-centered battlegroup wanted 12: Re: Chinese Cruiser 13: Re: Large Plastics 14: Benson Class kit 15: IPMS VANCOUVER 2000 FALL MODEL SHOW 16: Revell USS Forrest Sherman(H-463) 17: Another Yamato reference 18: Supplier for WR Press Books 19: Hollywood Comes to Constellation 20: Re: Large size styrene -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Warship Books Announcement 2: IMPORTANT WEM NOTICE! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Poutre, Joseph A" Subject: Re: Kit manufacturers - New kit >> I'm one of the future buyers to Tre Kronor-class, and I know many others modelers that they wanted to have a Tre Kronor in their collection. << I, too, would be interested in a Tre Kronor, and other ships of the Swedish Navy. Pelle sent me a bunch of photos and plans in trade for a model, and I'd really like to build some of their interesting designs. My personal favorite is the seaplane-carrying mine-laying light cruiser Gotland, and the Sverige coastal defense vessels were also a design with a long operational history. I know the market could be small for such ships, but recently not one but two versions of the relatively-unknown-but-interesting Askold came out (how are they selling, I wonder?), so maybe there's a market for new and unusual ships, in place of yet more Y*matos and Bismarcks. Joe Poutre -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Rick Lundin" Subject: 5/38 cal gun mounts Every time I have visited the USS Massachusetts there were one or more 5/38 open for visitors to crawl into and inspect up close and personal. Rick Lundin Hopkinton, RI -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Gordon E. Hogg" Subject: Re: Tre Koner/Gota Legon Add my name to those of Pelle and Roberto regarding a possible TRE KRONOR/GOTA LEJON cruiser model in 1:700. While I'm at it, and before I get any further on my scratchbuilding project, a nice 1:700 model of the (later incarnations, now in the Peruvian Navy) Dutch cruisers DE RUYTER/DE ZEVEN PROVINCIEN would be most welcome. Any other backers? Artitec in the Netherlands had planned a 1:700 or 1:350 KAREL DOORMAN (later Argentine 25 DE MAYO), but seems now to have officially forgotten the once and future project. So it goes. Welcome back, Mister Shane and Mistress Lorna. regards, Gordon Hogg Lexington, Kentucky USA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "John Snyder" Subject: Re: 5"/38 Mounts See also Friedman's _U.S. Naval Weapons_, p.68 for isometric and cutaway views of this mount, with all elements numbered and keyed. Also--and no dig at Norm--that famous photo of MISSOURI about to take a kamikaze shows the crew positions of quad 40mm mounts, not 5"38 twins (which, of course, are in enclosed gunhouses). John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys http://www.shipcamouflage.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Ned Barnett Subject: Ken Goldman and Naval History Thanks for posting the editor's comments - as a former editor myself, I understand his problems. I may even have some ideas (he seems open to them). Do you have contact information for Fred Schultz, the editor? Ned (formerly Neditor) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: Ned Barnett Subject: Pearl Harbor and Crap (not) The movie Pearl Harbor will not be crap - it will be a commercial venture disguised as entertainment, and it will NOT be a documentary. Robin Williams did a great stand-up bit back when the religious fundamentalists were picketing the movie "Last Temptation of Christ" ... one of the protestors had a sign reading "This movie is not real." Robin Williams' response ... "Sparky, no movie is real ..." (or words to that effect). Bruckheimer, the producer, has produced Top Gun and Crimson Tide. Both are works of entertaining fiction, but both have lots of scenes showing real military hardware - even if you don't like the stories (I did) you could see lots of real stuff. Armegeddon was a work of fiction, too - but it had well-done hardware (one of which spawned a model) and a story that made it the top grossing film two years ago. Stuff I've seen on previews of Pearl Harbor show: a. Real live Japanese Zero flying b. Real live B-25 (Doolittle) flying c. Real live P-40 flying d. Real live (Spanish) Bf-109 flying e. Real live (modern) ships sailing (as Robin Williams might tell Sparky, there are no real live Pearl Harbor ships still sailing) f. Very accurate models of ships and planes (including life-sized wrecks - one is a trashed 737 fuselage (used in fire experiments) grafted onto a C-47 nose to depict a real C-47 that got burnt up at Wheeler Field - not "accurate" but damned effective looking). Realistically, movies are economic ventures first - they are made to make money. Second, they are entertainment, made to appeal to paying customers. They have no obligation to be historically accurate - they are NOT documentaries. I expect this to be a highly entertaining film covering about 2 years of history and centered around Pearl Harbor. I expect (and hope - so more World War II Naval/Aviation films will be made) that it will be entertaining - that's what Bruckheimer and his director do - make entertaining movies. I expect that within the bounds of being an economic success and an entertaining film the movie will be about as historically accurate as it needs to be - no more, no less. It will NOT be crap - and it will NOT be an accurate documentary showing real equipment (or totally accurate replica models). It will still be the best Pearl Harbor movie since Tora Tora Tora (and my second copy is starting to wear out ... I've been waiting a LONG time). Long rant? Yes. Why? Because we should be supporting anybody who makes major-release movies featuring subject matter we love and which uses models. Both events spur interest in our hobby and encourage model kit manufacturers to create new kits or re-releases long out-of-production kits. Those are GOOD THINGS that won't happen if the ground-zero target audience (us included) criticizes a film for the wrong reasons. IMO Ned the former Screenwriter -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: stillmo@mb.sympatico.ca Subject: HMCS Warrior/Magnificent HELP! I am the lone shipbuilder in our 67 member IPMS WINNIPEG Chapter.....The club has decided to embark on a project to build a 1/72nd scale HMCS WARRIOR/MAGNIFICENT CVL from the flight deck to include the island. Of course dozens happily stepped forward to help build the aircraft, but guess who they all looked to to feasably build a 4 section table top flight deck and full island!!!!! Yup, me. Now, those carriers were basically Royal Navy post war hand me downs of the Powerfull/Collossus class. Well, I need simplified uncomplicated port and starboard drawings of the island and masts, an overview of the flight deck layout, and possible and port and starboard elevation plan from waterline up. Circa 1950-60. Axial deck CVL. Please contact me at mailto:stillmo@mb.sympatico.ca. Ray D. Bean.....thanks a whole lot. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: James Corley Subject: Re: Away All Boats >> One thing of interest. It has been the consensus of your readers that the APA used in Away All Boats was the Randolph. According to the American Dictionary of Fighting Ships, it was the U. S. S. SANBORN APA-193.  Thought this might be of interest. << On a side note, I saw at Sam's Club this morning that said movie is now on DVD, but for $15.99US you get Away All Boats and Gray Lady Down ... I passed because I never liked the second one. If anybody cannot get these, I would be willing to buy them and ship them at cost. I would offer to ship overseas, but BEWARE, they are in the Region 1 format (North America) and wouldn't work unless you happen to have a DVD from here. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: James Corley Subject: Re: Pearl Harbor will be crap! >> Good Lord! They're trusting the producer of "coyote ugly" to make an accurate movie about one of the most important events of this century?! Oh, and a little background about the "Director." A true fool. This camera-holding monstrosity directed that piece of mind-numbing ADD-inducing drivel called "Armageddon." God help us all on Memorial Day. << Hey, he also did Top Gun, a highly accurate movie about modern (1986) naval aviation.... oh, yeah ... he tried to tell us an F-5 was a MiG-28. Didn't even do enough research to know that most Soviet combat jets ended with ODD Numbers!! And the squadron patches! HA! Trying to fool the tail hook community into thinking a flapjack unit flew fighters, sheeeeeeesh! (But those hummer drivers were proud, even in their own minds). At least he got the carrier name right, that's more than Star Trek 4 mananged to do!! On the serious side, I went to the Altus AFB air show in the spring of 87, and the primary F-14 aircraft used in the filming was there still in the movie colors (same BuNo ... I checked the video later) as well as a large contingent of black F-5/T-38 types and aggressor A-4s. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "Ray Mehlberger" Subject: Color of Heller's Sorcouf submarine Can anybody tell me the correct colors to paint this submarine?? I have gotten 3 different oppinions on it and none agree with the others. Also need a source for some Kriegsmarine ensign flags to go on my Airfix 1/72nd E-Boat. Regards, Ray Mehlberger -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Poutre, Joseph A" Subject: Picture of Kirov-centered battlegroup wanted Hi gang, Glad that SMML is back - gets me through the work day, when I can't work on my models. As I have boasted here recently, I'm building a set of 9 ships to recreate in 3-D a photo of a surface action group centered on USS New Jersey. (Six down, one in progress, two to go, including the feared AOR. Egad!) What I'd like to do is build an equivalent Soviet/Russian SAG centered on Kirov. I have a Sovremenny and a Udaloy, and will pick up a Skywave Krivak. I believe Loren is working on an update for his PE set, and PitRoad, if they follow up on their survey results, will be producing a Kirov, so I'm good and happy with all that. What I'd like to have is a photo of such a battlegroup. I've surfed for one to no avail, and my limited book resources do not have one, so I'm wondering if someone out there has a book or magazine with said image. If you do, please forward me the information on the source - title, author, ISBN #, where you got it, or mag name and issue. Thanks in advance! Joe Poutre Actually building models! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "Kevin W. Woodruff" Subject: Re: Chinese Cruiser Ned: You are looking for the Dingyuan Beiyang Fleet Flagship and the Zhenyuan Chinese Beiyang Fleet Cruiser which are by a Chinese company called Zhengdefu. They are available from the Phoenix Model Co. http://www.phoenix-model.com e-mail: phoenixm@gate.net P.O. Box 15390 Brooksville FL 34609 USA Phone: 352/754-8522 FAX 1-800/298-6639 Hours 8:00-5:00 P.M. I hope this helps Kevin -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Chris Rogers Subject: Re: Large Plastics G/Day Shane glad to see the Mistress and your good self have arrived in mexican country safe and well a member is asking about large plastics Well Cadilac plastics do an assortment of plastics from .25mm to as thick as you want in sheets of 400mmx800mm and 1200mmx800mm for a very reasonable price so they are available chris Hi Chris, Hey we only made it back to NSW, NOT Victoria ;-þ Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: Denis & Marilyn Campbell Subject: Benson Class kit The father of one (of many - I am old enough to have more doctors than old friends, now) of my doctors was a Lt. Commander (medical Officer) on uss Ordranaux DD617 during ww2. I would like to someday build a model of this ship for him as his father passed away last year and they were apparently very close. Does anyone know of a (preferably styrene) kit of a Benson class destroyer in 1/350 or larger scale? I have never worked with resin and would prefer to stay with molded styrene if possible. Ordranaux was a Benson class built at Fore River Shipyard, Quincy Mass. in 1942. If I can't find a kit, will have to try and get plans and see if I can scratch-build it - but I shudder at the thought. Denis Campbell Avon MA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: Keith Butterley Subject: IPMS VANCOUVER 2000 FALL MODEL SHOW Hi group, The annual Vancouver IPMS fall show will be held on OCTOBER 7th 2000 at the Bonsor Rec Center - 6550 Bonsor Avenue, Burnaby BC. Besides myself any other SMMLies here in the Pacific North Wet(where drought = 4 days without rain) going? Great news about the Carpathia, eh? Ok it wasn't a warship, but it is still interesting that they found the wreck. Regards Keith Butterley http://www.warshipbooks.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: harold a kosier Subject: Revell USS Forrest Sherman(H-463) Sir: I have a (revell) model kit of the USS Forrest Sherman(H-463).Hull length 153/4in,it does not tell me the scale.I want to get scale fittings for it but I do not know which one to buy, can you please help me, buy letting me know the scale and where to get them. harold -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: "Jens H. Brandal" Subject: Another Yamato reference A book about the Yamato that noone seems to have discovered yet, is a book called "Super Illustration: Battleship Yamato" published by Model Art. The book contains drawings and a few photos of the ship and the aircraft. The drawings are primarily isometric of sections of the ship, but you alse get three fold out plans in 1:600 scale of the Yamato as completed, after refit Oct. 1944 and the final configuration. THe drawings show clearly the rigging and what goes where. I paid 2000 Yen from Hobbylink Japan for mine. Jens -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: "Franz Aigner GmbH" Subject: Supplier for WR Press Books Where can I order WR Press "Royal Navy Cmaouflage" and pay by credit card? Greetings, Richard -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: "James Kloek" Subject: Hollywood Comes to Constellation Ahhhh, this answers one of my questions. I was in San Diego last week, and from across the bay saw the Connie and what looked to me to be two B-25s on her flight deck. I actually speculated to the people I was with that maybe they were shooting part of the Pearl Harbor movie there. But now the other question. I also saw a vessel moving through the harbor which was painted haze gray, looked to be smaller than a destroyer, and was shaped like the fuselage of a stealth fighter. No straight angles anywhere, and no masts, guns, or anything on her. Any idea what it was? Hi James, That would be the USS Sea Shadow. Revell did a 1/144 kit of her a few years back. She is stealth ship & iirc the only one of her class. Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: GKingzett@aol.com Subject: Re: Large size styrene I recently bought high impact styrene in 40" X 72" sheets from E & T Plastics in Long Island City, New York. 1-(800) 221-9555. They have several branches around the US. More generally, I suggest that you inquire locally in the Display industry. Even if you pay retail to display house, it is a lot cheaper in these sizes. Good Luck, Gary -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Keith Butterley Subject: Warship Books Announcement Hi group, For those of you who may not know, Warhip Books has a new website, it can be found at : http://www.warshipbooks.com Drop in and have a look. I think you will find it a vast improvement over the old site. Regards Keith Butterley http://www.warshipbooks.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "WEM" Subject: IMPORTANT WEM NOTICE! First off, it's great to have you back S+L.. you were missed but I'm glad you got the hols. you deserved. White Ensign will be closed until 3rd October. Dave's new girlfriend is over from Michigan for 9 days so he's otherwise occupied :^) And I am back off to Sacramento for another visit with John Snyder on Tuesday.. YES!!! Working manaically right now to get the orders out. Some updated news on kits, brass and more can be found at: http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models/new.htm Just a reminder. IPMS ScaleModelworld 2000 at Telford, Shropshire, U.K. is only a month away ... make a date for the 21st/22nd October, 9 till 5pm. This is THE largest IPMS event in the world.. ever! Prepare to be blitzed away by the work of some of the world's finest ship modellers who will make this event unforgettable. Anyone can come and, as a one-off this year, anyone can enter any of the ship classes. If you ARE visiting, PLEASE hold off buying anything until the event as we will be running some fantastic special offers on all W.E.M. gear and Skywave kits over that weekend. Peter Hall will be running modelling demos and we'll have a bunch of weirdos in various foreign naval uniforms on the stand ;^))... why not join them if you're an ex- or current serviceman.. there are always a load of folks wondering around from re-enactment societies .. the Sealed Knot society, Napoleonic navy and army chaps, and the Roman legions normally make a visit, so you will only add to the flavour of the event! If you're coming from the U.S. the pound is at its best level in 30 years for you (today's tourist rate is about $1.39 to the pound ... which makes our stuff really cheap for you guys to buy mail order too!) John Snyder will be coming over a couple of days before the event to help us get organised (he'll be one of the guys in a funny hat....) We think he will have the new DKM Paint Chips set No. 1 with him (20 colours in this first set). John Lambert will be on the stand too (I'm sure he can be "persuaded" to sign copies of his book on Flower Class Corvettes!) I don't think John fits into HIS naval uniform any more though.. :^) Thanks! Caroline Carter White Ensign Models -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://www.smml.org.uk Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://www.tac.com.au/~sljenkins/apma.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume