Subject: SMML VOL 1015 Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 22:14:10 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: Future aerosol 2: France and Italy order two Horizon frigates each 3: Perry class 1/300 4: Italo-Swedish Ships 5: Skytrex Type 22 HMS Norfolk 6: Need blast bag color for 1/200 Yamato 7: Submarine in Andes 8: Re: Ship Movies and "The Cruel Sea" 9: 1/350 Tamiya Essex 10: One On Topic, One Off 11: The Batory 12: ICM Koenig 13: Wonderful Warspite 14: Some 1/350 kits from Ukraine. G3/N3 plans wanted 15: Re: tonnes of paint: An Example 16: War Movies And Ships 17: USS Baltimore 18: Regia Marina Camouflage 19: Tamiya 1/350 Anything 20: Re: HMS Attacker 21: Soviet Gunboats 22: More 1:72nd scale ships 23: Re: Ship Models from Russia 24: Re: Tamiya 1/350 USS Essex?? 25: Re: Lindberg Bismarck 26: Re: Trumpeter Minsk 27: Re: HMS WARSPITE - Colours 28: drug subs 29: Thank you 30: Re: Waterline resin models to full hull 31: tonnes of paint 32: Graf Zeppelin Airgroup - A Plea 33: Visby class corvettes, a tangent 34: IJN Yashima 35: Surcouf sub colors -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Chester -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: David_L._Miller@CCMAIL.WIU.EDU Subject: Re: Future aerosol I've read much in praise of Future floor polish and the miracles it works on all types of modeling media. Sadly, my experiences with Future are not so wonderful. In a series of tests, I tried to apply Future with airbrush and could not overcome problems of clogging and spattering. I tried applying Future with brush, and ruined a nice little model - the finish would not level out, and was still tacky (and picking up dust) 48 hours after applying. Still wanting to believe the great things have been written about Future, I applied it to a model I was building for a customer and nearly ruined the model. The Future dried OK, but showed runs, and discoloration. I would like to know if anyone else has experienced these problems with Future. I also have doubts about the effects of aging on Future, since when used on my floors it does cloud in damp conditions and discolors with age. As a modeler, I would not bother trying to develop an aerosol application system for Future floor polish, especially since there are already excellent gloss model finishes available. Dave Miller -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: JRKutina@webtv.net (John Kutina) Subject: France and Italy order two Horizon frigates each http://www.seawaves.com/Articles/Europe/september2000/00092501.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Bonini S.r.l." Subject: Perry class 1/300 Rusty, As I wrote in a recent message, I bought the 1/300 LEE Perry (i.e.,the Australian version) in Taipei / Taiwan. The one-piece hull is molded in a very light grey plastic, the scale seems true ; overall detail is acceptable, no flash, first impression (I didn't build the kit, yet) is rather good; of course, don't expect a Tamiya quality kit - there are a lot of possible improvements, but, even straight from the box, the result should not be too bad. The only "problem" is that the kit is motorized and therefore, a lot of modification work (propeller, shaft, etc.) must be foreseen. In any case, this is the only model of a Perry in bigger scale so, there is no choice... It is not a pantographed version of the Skywave kit - all the outfit and pieces engineering is completely different. By the way, as far as i know, LEE is completely independent, not a Trumpeter company. Ciao from Italy, Giusto Gallas mailto:bonini@bonini.com mailto:giusto.gallas@bonini.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Bergschöld Pelle Subject: Italo-Swedish Ships Mr Langtree wrote: >> I would be interested in Swedish warships as well - particularly Gotland (note the resemblance to Mogami). For those who can't wait the Swedish Navy bought 2 destroyers from Italy (ex Sella class) which might be available in model form. << Actually, the Swedish government bought two Sella-class destroyers AND two Spica-class torpedo-boats, the latter however reclassified as escort destroyers in Swedish service. The ships was a part of quite a large arms deal between Sweden and Italy, where Sweden also purchased Caproni Ca-314 bombers, Reggiane Re-2000 Falco II and Fiat CR-42-fighters for the RSwAF. The deal must be seen as a bit of an emergency aquisition since the need was imminent with war raging in Europe and no other suppliers were able to deliver. As a matter of fact, Sweden had earlier bought Republic-Seversky P-35-fighters that were confiscated by the USAAF and put to emergency use on the Phillippines, some still carrying swedish national insignias together with american ditto. Back to the ships, however. These four "destroyers" had quite an adventurous trip from Italy to Sweden. On direct order fron PM Churchill, the Swedish ships were interned by the RN in Skaalefjord on the Faroes, and the crews forced to leave the ships and continue the journey home on the old subtender HMS Patricia. Within a few days and following intense diplomatic contacts between Sweden and the UK, the crews were able to return to their ships and sail them home to Gothenburg. The Sella-class destroyers were named after Swedish naval heroes, HMS Psilander, pennant J18 (ex italian Ricasoli) and HMS Puke, pennant J19 (ex italian Nicotera) The Spica-boats were named HMS Romulus, pennant J27 (ex italian Spica) and HMS Remus, pennant J28 (ex italian Astore) in honour of the Italians allowing delivery. At least the Spica-class is available in 1/700 from italian resin caster Delphis. If I could lay my gluey paws on a Sella as well, maybe a nice diorama could be made of the interning at Skaalefjord. The RN vessel used was (if my memory works) HMS Cossack, the Tribal-class destroyer. And that one is readily available. /BR Pelle SWE -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Donald Bridge Subject: Skytrex Type 22 HMS Norfolk I'm considering the Skytrex HMS Norfolk but I'm a bit confused as to the media and quality of the kit. At 35GBP it's a bit expensive for an injection kit 50% more than Skywave, especially if you have to replace parts. However until we see the WEM kit it's the only game in town. Any comments? Don Bridge -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Bishop, Paul" Subject: Need blast bag color for 1/200 Yamato Hi yall, I am finishing up the blast bags on this monster and was wondering if anyone had any idea what color they should be - black, tan. gray etc.? Thanks, Paul -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "JAmes McCormick" Subject: Submarine in Andes Kelvin, I don't think that the drug lords would ever be confused with the inner ring at the pentagon. I have NO question it could ferry in a nuke warhead, but then again, a Yugo could carry a small device also. The drug lords probably wanted to use the sub to "mule" their drugs into America. This may have worked once or twice, but any sub in the US fleet would be able to pick this thing up on sonar. The money the drug lords invested was obviously wasted, or they got cold feet on the rising cost of puting a sub to sea. Didn't they consult w General Dynamics/ Electric Boat? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "J. London" Subject: Re: Ship Movies and "The Cruel Sea" This was indeed made into a film (b&w) back in 1953 with Jack Hawkins as the Captain. Well worth seeing if you can get a copy from your local video store. Michael London -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: Shirley Sachsen Subject: 1/350 Tamiya Essex be still my heart--even if just a rumor.... imagine the possibilities: a basic kit as built in 1943, 27a,b,c conversion kits, antenna/mast accessory kits 1943-1970, aircraft sets for WWII, Korea, Vietnam, and ASW (including Apollo recovery variations). even though molded in plastic, and therefore cheaper than resin, with all these accessory kits and such, one could run into serious $$ long before even buying up all the aftermarket PE and decal sets. and then for the modeler: to construct each Essex class ship in each variant within their service lives, and for the completist: Oriskany as a derelict, awaiting scrap version. there goes the paycheck, shelf space, garage space, and the mortgage. bring it on! I want two! s -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Tom Detweiler Subject: One On Topic, One Off There is an interesting picture of a camo-painted small coastal ship, the Finnish Minelayer Pohjanmaa on the Sept. 22nd Seawaves online magazine. This ought to interest a number of you who love these smaller ships. I think she looks pretty nice too, and I like the camo paint. Re the Pearl Harbor Movie thread, it's a sad irony to me that one of its actors is Alec Baldwin, not known for his pro-American sentiments. A question-during the movie is any mention made of the Japanese mini-subs invading the harbor? Any movie time given to them? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: SAMI ARIM Subject: The Batory Hello all, I will be building the Polish liner the Batory as of early May in 1939. She was built in Italy in 1936 for the Gdynia-American line. I know that she was used during WW2 starting in 1939 as a troopship under British management. What I am looking for is that if she was painted in war colors or even in a comouflage at the time. Any help will be appreciated. Regards Sami Arim -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: Ned Barnett Subject: ICM Koenig Does anybody know of a discounted source for this kit (ICM Koenig, for those who didn't read the subject header)? Buying it used but unbuilt (or built by a true master craftsperson - as long as I could claim it for my own work ) would be OK. I am frothing at the mouth over this, but my dear bride has me on a leash that's long enough for a $50 kit but not for an $80 kit. If you know what I mean ... Ned -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "chenyangzhang" Subject: Wonderful Warspite Hi James This is one that's been exercising SMML for a few months. Briefly there is a body of opinion which holds that as British battleships as a rule did not have painted decks neither did Warspite. However there is the fairly convincing photographic evidence that yes she did. Most of the arguments advanced against this evidence tend to be flimsy but your supposition isn't a bad one and is possible. The most important thing about RN camouflage is not that the colours are 100% on but that the contrast between them is right. Chris Langtree -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: =?koi8-r?B?5M3J1NLJyiDhztTPzs/X?= Subject: Some 1/350 kits from Ukraine. G3/N3 plans wanted Dear all! It's nice to be able to talk to you from Russia. At first, for your information: Recently I bought myself a nice 1/350 injection kit of SMS Koenig, produced by the Ukranian manufacturer ICM (www.icm.com.ua). It costed me mere 1000 roubles ($1=27.85 RUB). The quality was fantastic (but I still have no time to build it), and I've decided to e-mail them to express my best wishes. As a reply I've got a list of kits that ICM is going to produce in the near future: HMS Hood (2000), IJN Takao (2001), SMS Kaiser (2001), HMS Nelson (2002), USS S.Dakota (2002), USS Washington (2002), Russian predreadnought Slava (2004), Russian guided missile cruiser Slava/Moskva (2004). They say they are also going to produce SMS Bayern, HMS Lion, HMS Repulse and USS Alaska (no timeframes were given). All in 1/350! Well, the second part of my message is a cry for help. Are there any more or less detailed plans or line drawings of British G3/N3 battle cruisers/battleships??? Would appreciate your help and have some plans/line drawings of Russian and Soviet battleships & battle cruisers for bargain if needed. Rgds, Dmitry Antonov -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: Fritz Koopman Subject: Re: tonnes of paint: An Example Hi... it me again. Sorry bout that guys, I meant 5% of "structural weight", This is much less than "light ship displacement" and a hell of a lot les than "full load displacement". For example: :-) (while I have'nt been involved in too many destroyer designs recently so some of these numbers are educated guesses, and may not be "dead on") Lets start with a WWII destroyer at about 2000 long tons light displacement (no fuel, stores, or Ammo) where one long ton = 2240 lbs Now we start ripping out all that stuff that aint structural: GUNS, 5x5" at 4 Lt ea. associated train/elev.& hoist machinery 17 Lt. total 4 x twin 40mm at 5.8 Lt per mount (courtesy Norm Friedman) 10 x 20mm at 1Lt each 1x quint. torp. mount at 4 Lt. BOILERS, 80 Lt total. FIXED BALLAST 40 Lt MACHINERY i.e: turbines, 2x @ 5 Lt ea. reduction gears 2x @ 7 Lt ea. fuel-dynamos, 2x @ 1.5 Lt. ea oil lube pumps, hydraulic pumps etc.), 10 Lt total steering pumps & rams 7 Lt. fire and bilge and other pumps. 10 Lt total shafts/ props/ bearings 8 Lt. Valves (metric-butt-loads of these on a ship) 10 Lt tot. ANCHORS w/ CHAIN 60- 70 Lt total, ELECTRONICS 200 Lt tot. (ie. gyrocompasses, targeting computers, radar scope stations, you get the idea) ALL THAT OTHER STUFF cos I'm gettin' lazy approx 800 Lt (i.e. galley stoves, bread mixers , benches, mess tables, toilets, urinals, sinks, captains chair, barbers chair, medical equip, hose reels, winches, plumbing, light fixtures, light switches, electrical panels, electrical wiring, helm station, voice powered phone system, ventilation fans, life rings, directors, portlight glass, berths, klaxons, horns, navigation lights, and on and on.) Total weight to deduct to get "structural weight": 1326.2 Lt 2000 - 1326.2 = 673.8 Lt. Structural weight (weight of hull, superstructure, decks, bulkheads, tanks, funnels, and mast.) 673.8 x.0.05 = 33.7 Lt of paint or 75.5 thousand pounds of haze gray, white, foam green, black, red oxide, and primer. This is still a conservatively large number, but its easier to ballast a ship than try and remove weight should we estimate the wrong way. What does all this prove? You cant ask me a simple question and get....... ;-) Rhino, as far as the Carl Vinson goes, multiply that 91000 (full load?) tons by 0.25 to get her structural weight (closer to 2300 tons). now multiply it by 5% to get around 1138 Lt of paint & primer. Best regards Fritz Koopman -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "Victor M. Baca" Subject: War Movies And Ships This thread on naval war movies prompted me to watch The Cruel Sea again. Poor Ferraby fared better in the movie than the novel, where he saw his baby transform into a horrible visage. The music, moodiness and tragedy of plain folks caught in a cruel war at sea still holds up, even in black and white. Not much in the way of models except for a burning tanker, but what magnificent footage of the Flower class escort at sea and in port! I get a craving for Snorkers (Good-Oh!) everytime we watch that flick... Alan made good points about Hollywood. I recall Otto Preminger's soapy, "In Harm's Way" where John Wayne and his cruiser were torpedoed when he zig-zagged on his decision to take evasive maneuvers and his ship didn't. He was then promoted by Hank Fonda to admiral and singlehandedly cleaned up the Pacific with a drunken Kirk Douglas at his side. The real ships looked like they had one prop in the mothball grave, but were interesting. Then, there were the models...what fine examples of big budget crapola! Life magazine ran a feature showing the huge "scale" beasts operated by on-board drivers like it was a good thing. Ahhh the magnificence, undetailed models as big as a Buick in a "money is no object" movie by the baldest mogul in tinsel town. All the money in Malibu couldn't save the models. They looked fake and were photographed to appear as toys with crummy music to accentuate the effect. Kirk Douglas chastised Otto for foisting phony-looking ships in his movie. He suggested model figures on the decks to make them more believable. No dice. I still enjoy seeing that flick, though. Lovely Patricia Neal as everywoman nurse, smirking Kirk Douglas with a lady on each arm, the Duke at his seasoned best and Burgess Meredith playing a Hollywood type with sense and duty. Now we have "The Perfect Storm." I only saw the trailers to make sure my article writing wasn't tainted, but will rent the movie now that the writing's done. Fred Thompson as the USCG Captain would have been a good casting choice and as long as the producers were springing for a model, they could have made a replica or refurbished the real ex-ATF tug, USCGC Tamaroa. Instead, they bought a model that looked like the aborted "Heritage" class patrol boat. For their sins, they should give some of their blockbuster cash to help preserve the real Tamaroa and make her a museum ship. The best thing about the lousy movie models we usually see? They quite often get smeared with goopy rubber cement and mini charges, then make fine slow-mo fireball explosions. I love seeing a bad model go BOOM from several angles. Kinda takes me back to my childhood when plastic ships, firecrackers and BB guns were my playthings (kids, don't do this at home!) ;} BTW does anyone remember the name of the war movie, circa WWII, starring William Holden as the skipper of a British Assurance class rescue tug? I think his kissin' honey in that one was Sophia Loren. It had some great shots of the Royal Navy tug at sea with Bill on the bridge wing looking like he knew what he was doing. Pass the popcorn and fire up the VCR. Victor Baca -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: steven lau Subject: USS Baltimore I am beginning my research into building the Wave Line 1/700 Baltimore kit. I have a paint question. The kit depicts the ship after its Oct. 1944 yard period when it wore a measure 32 scheme. I seem to recall a picture of the ship in 1945 wearing the measure 22 graded scheme. I can't seem to locate that picture now. This is how I would really like to build the ship. Can anyone out there confirm this? Any suggestions about the kit as well? It looks like a nice one. Thanks. Steven Lau -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: "John Rule" Subject: Regia Marina Camouflage >> Does anybody knows a good web or book with good references of the Regia Marina Ships camouflage in the WWII << By far the best references for Regia Marina camouflage in WWII is the Orizzonte Mare series of books published intermittently between 1972 and the late 1990's. Most, if not all are out of print, but sometimes can be purchased second hand. Hope this helps. John -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: Mike Connelley Subject: Tamiya 1/350 Anything Howdy: Regardless of how reliable anyone is, the mid-80s was a long time ago. I'm sure Tamiya was thinking of a lot of things 15 years ago which never panned out. The Fletcher was released, after they "considered" it for over a decade! Nothing is for sure until the plastic hits the shelves (notice how the much anticipated Tamiya 1/32 Zero has been delayed again!) so I'm not holding my breath on this one. Tamiya is also known to be sneaky. There were a few rumors that the Do-335 would be released, but who saw a 1/32 Zero or a J1N1 in the future? If they ever do release another big ship, I'm betting it's something that people will like but never saw coming. I think it's high time for a 1/350 IJN CV. I am, however, holding my breath on the ICM Takao, Chokai and Hood. If they don't come out soon, I may suffer permanent effects. Cheers Mike Connelley -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: "Steven Bennell" Subject: Re: HMS Attacker >> I am looking for views that show the deck camouflage of the escort carrier Attacker as in 1942-43. Any help would be appreciated. << I've just finished a conversion of Tamiya's 1:700 Bogue kit to represent HMS Fencer circa 1943. As far as I can tell, from photographic evidence, HMS Attacker shared the same complicated camouflage scheme as HMS Fencer and HMS Stalker during 1943 (they had different schemes in 1944). Their flight decks were a single colour - some kind of deck blue? - I used Humbrol 79 to represent a weathered deck. There is quite a good overhead view of Attacker's deck in Roger Chesneau's "Aircraft Carriers of the world, 1914 to the present (ISBN 1-86019-875-9)". The conversion was quite a fun project as there are quite a few significant differences between HMS Fencer and the Tamiya kit - fewer gun tubs in a different layout, different bridge, radar and funnel arrangements and so on. Hope this helps Steve Bennell Wiltshire, England -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: "Mike Leonard" Subject: Soviet Gunboats In response to Dave Gregory's query, there are some rather poor photos of the Type 1124 and 1125 and the MBK in "Soviet Navy at War 1941-1945" by Przemyslaw Budzbon. Also some landing craft photos of similar quality. It does feature a decent line drawing of a Type 1124/1125, however. Mike Alexandria, VA USA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: "Mike Leonard" Subject: More 1:72nd scale ships Whoever is making a list can add the following - Viking Models PBR (resin) Viking Models ASPB (resin) Viking Models Vietnam River Monitor/CCB (resin) Japanese Co. (name?) IJN Midget Type A (injected plastic) Mike -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: Derek Wakefield Subject: Re: Ship Models from Russia Mike, By any chance does Kombrig make 1:700 resin kits of the Russian dreadnoughts (ie Gangut and Imperatritsa Maria cls). I've had an interest in modeling a Imperatritsa Ekaterina II and Oktyabrskaya Revolutsia recently. For that matter, how does one pronounce "October Revolution" given the above spelling? I've been running into a number of different spellings for these ships. Breyer spells them one way (Oktjabrskaja Revoljucija), Hough spelt them another (Otyaberskaia Revolutia), and Preston spelt them yet another way (Oktyabrskaya Revolutsia). The differences are subtile, but I'm curious as to A) why the discrepancy, and B) if there is such a thing as a correct "english" spelling. I got into a discussion with someone just before the last SMML holiday which piqued my interest in these ships. The history behind them is so...unusual (warped, cracked, steeped in mystery, enigmatic, etc) that it draws my interest in like a magnet. Mysteries of the sea. Definitely not the most beautiful or most powerful of ships, but they do make for interesting reading. Same with the Soviet WWII era Battleship programs. I'd like to find some good books on this subject. I would hope by now some of the unknowns that were hidden behind the Soviet veil of secrecy might've come out by now. I'm curious as to whether any ship went through as many hands within such a short period of time than the Imperator Aleksandr III did - Tsarist Russia, Soviet Russia, Germany, Britian, White Russia, and France in the span of five years. The Battleship nobody wanted. Should've been named "Hot Potato". Then when France asked the Soviets "You want this one back", they answered. "No, you keep...battleship not in people's budget this year and that one got mojo on it!" Not historically correct in the least bit (sillyness attack resulting from WAY too much caffiene), but... Derek Wakefield -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24) From: Derek Wakefield Subject: Re: Tamiya 1/350 USS Essex?? A Tamiya 1:350 Arizona!! Holy $#|+! I'd be more than willing to contribute to Mr Tamiya's retirement fund by purchasing one of these. A 1:350 injection kit of the Arizona would be awesome (I'm just not crazy enough about the Arizona to buy resin). And if they did a companion Pennsylvania, I know of a few other folks who would contribute to that cause as well. I do have to admit though, the 1:350 Essex is more intriquing. Personally I'd prefer a long-hull, but what the hey...I'll be glad to find a 1:350 short-hull. Derek Wakefield -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 25) From: Derek Wakefield Subject: Re: Lindberg Bismarck Steve Wiper was heard to say at Mail Call... >> Ah....., Lindbergh, the Yugo of ship models! << Shhh! Don't complement them. They might start making them again!! ^_^ Derek Wakefield -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 26) From: Graeme Martin Subject: Re: Trumpeter Minsk David Wells asked the question if the Trumpeter Minsk in 1:550 was one piece hull? Yes it is with a threepiece deck, seems to fit OK initially. Graeme Martin. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 27) From: "Chris Preston" Subject: Re: HMS WARSPITE - Colours After being damaged during the battle for Crete in May, 1941, HMS WARSPITE proceeded to Bremerton Naval Shipyard, just west of Seattle, Wash. for battle damage repairs. Just prior to arriving there on 11 June, 1941, she entered HMC Dockyard, in Esquimalt, British Columbia, which is about 3 miles west of Victoria, British Columbia, on Canada's west coast (and about 60 miles NW of Seattle/Bremerton). This dockyard was established by the Royal Navy in the middle to latter half of the 19th century, to support the Royal Navy's Pacific Squadron, and was turned over to the RCN, on it's establishment in 1910. As both Canada and Great Britain were already at war with Germany, and Canada was a part of the British war effort at that time, the supplies (including paint, etc), equipment, and ammunition were standard to both navies, and if Bremerton couldn't supply paint in the correct colours, then it conceivably could have been supplied from RCN stocks at Esquimalt. Warspite paid a port visit to HMC Dockyard immediately prior to beginning her repair at Bremerton, in June, 1941, and again, on completion of the work, in February, 1942. At this time, she was painted in an unofficial two-tone scheme of light and medium grey, these being 507B and 507C. This colour scheme is believed to have been worn from 1941, with only slight variations, until the ship was scrapped after the war. As for the colour of her teak covered decks, in the photo of her tied up, alongside a jetty at Bremerton, near the end of her repairs, the teak decks appear to be dark, but this could easily be due to wet decks from the fairly constant winter rain. (It rains a lot her in winter. You don't "tan" here - you rust!!!!). So - to sum up, I would feel comfortable in painting her in the correct shades of grey, as laid out in Admiralty Instructions - if the colours weren't available from the States, then they could have easily been drawn from stocks at Esquimalt. As for her teak decks, I'd leave as teak, pending further information. On an unrelated, but still a model ship note, both RMS QUEEN ELIZABETH, and RMS QUEEN MARY underwent conversion here, into troop ships, in 1942(?), in the Government Graving Dock, beside the Naval Dockyard. This dock was constructed earlier in the 20th century, to support the RN, and is still one of the largest Graving Docks on the west coast of North America. References for WARSPITE's colour scheme are from "ENSIGN 4 - QUEEN ELIZABETH CLASS BATTLESHIPS", and "British Battleships of World War Two", both by Alan Raven and John Roberts. Hope all this information helps. Chris Preston, Victoria, B.C. Canada -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 28) From: "O'Connor" Subject: drug subs SMMLies- The concept of a drug smuggling submarine is not new- We heard rumors in the early 1980's about a Bahamas-to-Florida minisub run which I always thought was a novel idea, but never gave a lot of credence to. If you think about the reality of it, though, we know that towed vessels have been used- tubular devices towed behind a mother ship, and dropped or cut loose near a deserted stretch of shoreline, to be retieved by divers or "go fast" speedboats. Limpets have also been popular over the years, too. So the idea of a sub in these times is not out of the question.... Can anyone say "sonar contact ,bearing, mark...."? I personally would be glad to see such a positive response to the enemy in the "war" on drugs. Anyone got a battery of hedgehogs?? Cheers to all, and welcome back, Lorna and Shane. Bob O'Connor, in sunny,hot, sandy Florida...oops-is that sand or some other powdery, white substance so popular in coastal Fla???!!! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 29) From: Schiefet@cs.com Subject: Thank you Greetings all, Just back from a road trip and would like to thank everyone who provided leads for the 5"/38's. In addition to these leads, I found a great source with a copy of the tech manual. Copies of the pages are on the way. On another subject, the new Pearl Harbor movie. I was there when the filmed Tora, Tora, Tora. They had built the stern end of a life size Nevada and had pretty realistic looking wrecked PBY's on Ford Island. As we steamed up the channel, there was smoke rising from the harbor and Japanese planes flying overhead (wish I could find those pictures). When the film was released I, like many others, found several errors. But I doubt the average viewer noticed them. Despite the flubs I've seen so far, I still have high hopes for the next flick. Perhaps it will keep the memory of those events alive as the Private Ryan movie did for Normandy. Who knows, maybe some folks will get interested in model ship building. Perhaps the manufactures and distributors of Pearl Harbor era ships will be able to capitalize on the movie? (Spoken as a true MBA student.) Anyway, there is my 2 cents. Now I will duck for cover. Thanks again for the help. Steve Singlar Pelham, NH -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 30) From: RhinoBones@aol.com Subject: Re: Waterline resin models to full hull >> I recently bought . . . It is a waterline model and I would like to make it into a full hull. How can this be done? What should be used to make the lower hull? resin ,wood,styrene? Also how should it be attached to the upper hull? << I've used wood for two 1:700 waterline kits (a NNT A-80 Destroyer and a Hasegawa CA Haguro). The process is pretty straight forward: 1) Use the upper hull to trace the desired pattern on a wood blank. 2) Rough cut the vertical and horizontal profiles. 3) Match drill the hull and upper hull and install a pair of alignment pins. Tack the upper and lower halves together. 4) File away everything which doesn't look like a hull then separate the upper and lower halves. 5) Attach the rudder and props then paint. For props I've been playing around with using straight pins. If you can find pins with over sized flat heads they can be formed into reasonable looking propellers. Maybe not the best solution to making 700 scale props . . . but it seems to work. There are a couple of other excellent methods for fabricating lower hulls which have been presented in this forum and you'll probably also be hearing from their proponents. I just happen to have some extra wood and a few good files so that is the way I went. I have a few "in process" pictures I took of the Haguro. If I ever get them scanned I'll mail them out to you. Regards, RhinoBones -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 31) From: "wblad" Subject: tonnes of paint In the discussion of weight of paint, it's important to consider the number of layers involved. Many years ago I knew a sailor who had taken part in the Coronation Review. He visited a British cruiser and reported that she had two inches of built-up paint on her hull and bulkheads. Having been in the navy myself I knew about sea-stories and took this with a grain of salt. A few years later the Queen Mary was moved to nearby Long Beach. To refit her for her new role as a hotel, all her old paint was removed and she was then repainted. She floated 3 feet higher in the water with all those layers of paint gone. Although the US Navy has always stripped the old paint from it's ships, the British of the period merely put new layers of paint over the old layers paint. A formula for estimating paint weight would have to take into account the practices of the various navies invloved. One formula doesn't fit all. This brings up question: for true scale effect, would a model of a British warship in a late war scheme have to be painted with each scheme she wore during the war over the preceding scheme, to build up the proper thickness? Hi, Well if the RN ship served in the Atlantic, you'd could apply the first scheme, weather it heavily, than paint on the next scheme, etc, etc ;-). Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 32) From: Ned Barnett Subject: Graf Zeppelin Airgroup - A Plea Hey, gang. You read Peter Mispelkamp's update on the custom order for the Graf Zeppelin Air Group. You're thinking ... "what's it to me? I'm not building that glorified banana boat anyway ..." But you're wrong - for a just $15 USD, you could be a part of history (and own a replicated piece of history). And help your friendly modeling colleagues. Such a deal! Imagine ... A complete set (three bags of planes - 109s, Stukas and something from Fiesler that looks like a straight-winged Lysander - sort of, in 1/720 scale, if you cross your eyes just right) is just $15 - a pittance for those of us who are fanatics (meaning all of us). Even if you don't wind up needing them for that Graf Zeppelin you're not going to build anyway, you could still come up with some kind of diorama, right? A Luftwaffe airfield next to a pier with a U-Boat. A Japanese 109 (they had three, I think) - or with a bit of kit-bashing, a Kawasaki Tony. A German kamikaze. A gate guard at some US post-war airfield (diorama). Miniature Christmas Tree ornaments. Or something. We're so freakin' close (as Peter pointed out). So cut him a check for $15 and know that you'll have something damned-near unique, and will have contributed to a good cause. And hey, I'd hate to have to send Guido around to "persuade" you to participate ... Thanks Ned PS - Email Peter at the address below - so he can send you the address to send the money to. E-mail address: mailto:mispelkamp.peter@videotron.ca -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 33) From: "Joe Costanzo" Subject: Visby class corvettes, a tangent This is a random tangent, but with the talk of Sweedish warships going around I thought I'd mention (read: brag) that a professor at my university (Lehigh University) was on the design team for the Visby Class corvette. I don't have any classes with him this semester, but he is the advisor for our Formula SAE team, and has some interesting ideas for using composites on our next race car :-) Joe Costanzo -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 34) From: "John Clements" Subject: IJN Yashima There have been one or two posts recently about the Elswick-built Yashima, and I see that there is a new resin model available. It reminded me that there is a very large scale model of the ship at Cragside, the National Trust property in Northumberland that was the home (or one of the homes, more accurately) of Lord Armstrong, the founder of the shipyard and the Armstrong business. The model is about five to six feet long, from memory, almost certainly larger than 1/72 scale, and may well have been built by the yard as a demonstration for the Japanese, but that is just my surmise. It does appear to be contemporary with the ship (from the case and inscription), but I could not find any details in the guidebook, or from the staff. At that size it is incredibly detailed and built from the proper materials, wood, steel, brass, etc; a wonderful piece of the art of model-making with every piece of equipment and rigging replicated. I just stood there for a long time time admiring it and wondering how I could get it in the boot of my car without anyone noticing! There was also a smaller model of a cruiser built for the Argentine government about the same time. If anyone in the area could obtain some photographs to put on a website, it would be both useful and a reminder that there were ship models of very high quality around before the age of plastic and resin. John Clements -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 35) From: "larsenal" Subject: Surcouf sub colors The French submarine Surcouf was painted light gray with a black boot line and black deck when she entered service. Later in her career (after 1932) she was painted dark blue overall. (Note that she never wore the dark green color usually given in kits camouflage notice) She was later repainted when she operated under Free French service, but the kiosk is not the same as the Heller kit. Best regards, Jacques Druel -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Ned Barnett Subject: Chester I've got a brand new USS Chester, the scout cruiser, in it's 1919 fitting (Jim Shirley - 1/700) - bought it for $39, will let it go for $30, postage included. Any takers? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://www.smml.org.uk Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://www.tac.com.au/~sljenkins/apma.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume