Subject: SMML VOL 1026 Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 23:40:08 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: Kids today 2: Re: MODEL SHIP JOURNAL 3: Russian Navy Kits 4: Re: Andrea Doria 5: Re: Tamiya's reply about Essex 6: Hasegawa Essex conversion to LPH 7: Painting wooden decks 8: Re: Various 9: Re: Displaying Full Hull Ships 10: Re: Classic Warships USS Pennsylvania 1/700 11: Re: Displaying full hulled ships 12: Monogram carriers 13: Re: Brass pedestal parts 14: Requests for 1/350 Essex 15: Tamiya's Reluctance to Kitting the USS Arizona 16: Re: HMS Montclare 17: Re: HMS MONTCLARE 18: Plastic styrene 19: Re: Tamiya requests 20: Federal Standard Colours 21: Re: Hornet/Oriskany 22: H.M.N.Z.S. WAIKATO (completed 1966) to be scuttled. mage of propellor on IJNS Yamato wreck -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Marc Flake Subject: Re: Kids today In my opinion, it's all a matter of taking responsibility for supporting what you care about. It's up to each of us to convey to children the imporatnce of history. I have two sons, one, Brian, is almost six, the other, Michael, almost three. The five-year-old has been getting little history lessons for the past two years. This past summer, we vacationed in Houston and Grandpa took us all out to see the USS Texas, which is situated in San Jacinto Battlefield Memorial Park. I have been telling Brian about Texas history: built a small Balsa Alamo, bought him HO Alamo/Mexican Army figures to play with and told him the story of the fight for Texas Independence. Grandpa was amazed at the details Brian related as we entered the park, eight down to General Santa Ana's attempted escape into the swamp. It was the first time I realized my history lessons were actualy getting through to him. In fact, he said he liked visiting the battlefield better than climbing all over the ship. Brian is also interested in Pokemon and Digimon, but he has room in his head for history, too. He may even, at some point down the road, begin to express an interest in ships, I hope. I know that, over the years, his interest in hisotry is going to fade in and out, just like it did with me. But I also know he will keep coming back to it. There's a fellow on another list who is also doing his part to get children interested in history through models. He donates his time to go down to his hobby store to teach kids how to put models together. I appologize for the long post, but what I'm trying to illustrate is that nothing is going to get done if we just sit here at our keyboards and complain about it. If it really bothers you, do something about it. If you don't have the time to help teach kids to build models, or give them little history lessons, that's fine. But if you are really bothered, take some personal responsibility and go out and do something about it. Brian built a model this year, entered it in the local contest and won a bronze medal for it. Everytime he shows his model and medal off, his friends all say the same thing, "I wish my Dad would help me build a model." The interest is out there. But the kids need an adult to teach them. If we want our hobby to grow, it's up to us. Marc -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: SantMin@aol.com Subject: Re: MODEL SHIP JOURNAL Just finished reading my second issue of Model Ship Journal. My hat's off to you Victor, a heatry well done! The article by Loren Perry on his two Arizona models is outstanding and the cover photos of them are Knock-Outs!! Inspired me to send right off for one of his PE Brass sheets although I may make mine as a Pennsylvania. Kudos to Victor and Loren. Cheers, Bob Santos -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Chris Neel" Subject: Russian Navy Kits Wow - Just received my copy of the 1/700 Russian Helicoptor Carrier/Cruiser Leningrad by Kombrig from Russia(?)in today's mail - the world has definately changed in the last few years... it's a nice little resin kit - looks like it will fit in well with my Russian Navy 1/700 collection along with the Kiev and the Kuznetzov... looks like it could use some photo-etch - any suggestions? - esp for the large radar dishes and railings... Also - I am "in need" for some other Russian Surface Fleet Vessels in 1/700 - namely the following classes: Kirov - any updates on the Pitroad rumor? Slava - have not seen any kits for what I think is the coolest looking cruiser Kresta I/II - any kits for these vessels? Kara - or these? Thanks! cn p.s - hope I am not politically incorrect calling them "Russian" vessels... no offense intended... Just that it is easier to type than "Former Soviet Union" or whatever country they are now actually a part of... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: SteveWiper@aol.com Subject: Re: Andrea Doria On the subject of the Andrea Doria, on my trip to the Nat. Archives and the Naval Hist. Center, I meet a gent who has dove on the AD wreck and says that the ship is in very bad condition. The constant wave action and its proximity to the surface has taken a toll on the wreck. All the superstructure and even two to the decks in the hull are gone and the hull itself is collapsing in on itself. This is caused by the storm waves rolling over the ship and constantly flexing the metal back and forth. Wont be to long before the wreck is gone. Steve Wiper -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: SteveWiper@aol.com Subject: Re: Tamiya's reply about Essex >> Don't be too disappointed. The LAST people Tamiya would tell about a new release before it's released would be customer service or sales reps. << Rusty is right on about this one. When I was at the IPMS Nat. Convention, 5 years ago, in Vigina Beach, I had heard that Tamiya had the, then new, 1/350 Fletcher test shots on display. I went over to the Tamiya table and, not seeing the test shots, asked one of the people there if this item existed. He was Japanese, and he said no, when at the same moment, another Tamiya associate, also Japanese set the damn thing on the table in front of me. Boy, was the first guy embarrassed. What was the reason for this? Who knows? Steve Wiper -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Ralph & Karen Batykefer" Subject: Hasegawa Essex conversion to LPH I noticed the Boxer, Princeton, and Valley Forge were all converted to LPH's. It is easy to see that they did not have the angled flight deck added, but had a SPS-8A and SPN-6 radar added. Are there other modifications to the exterior and hanger bays? Where could I find a listing of what modifications were made to convert them. Also, I have the 1/700 Hasegawa Essex model that I want to convert to an LPH. What is required to do so? IHS, Ralph -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "John Snyder" Subject: Painting wooden decks On the subject of painted wooden decks in the RN, I received the following e-mail from Richard Wootten: >> In the British Navy, even in wartime, wooden decks were holystoned and mopped and squeegeed wvery day at some ungodly hour come rain or shine. I don't say we actually broke off an action to do it but that's about the only stopper unless in the hands of the dockies. I don't think the best paint would have lasted long, and to spill paint on the deck would have you at the yardarm in seconds. Richard << -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: James Corley Subject: Re: Various >> Sorry Damian, but NASHVILLE was not in Ms.16. That bit of misinformation stems from incorrect photo-interpretation by Stefan Terzibatschitsch in his US Cruiser book. She was actually in Ms.32, IIRC. << When she was in the Aleutians, she was still wearing the Ms12 she wore at the opening of the war. Ewing's American Cruisers of WW2 has a photo of her shelling some island (don't have it in front of me right now) and she is still in the modified Ms12. >> According to Robert Sumrall's "Warship's Data -- USS Yorktown," one of the few books to get the story down accurately: << Jodie, I will concede the point. The photo I was referring to claimed to be of Yorktown, but since the deck numerals are obscured by parked aircraft (could be either Hornet or Wasp, but not Lex) a positive ID is not possible. The data I quoted were compiled from Norman Polmar's Aircraft Carriers from 1969, Pavlowski's Flat-tops and Fledglings from 1971 and Faltum's The Essex Class Aircraft Carriers from 1996, as well as several volumes of Ships & Aircraft (14th ed. shows Lex carrying an RA-5C ... which never operated from those smaller decks, AFAIK they never even tried to land there in an emergency) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: Steve Holton Subject: Re: Displaying Full Hull Ships I have been using brass lamp finials successfully, though I have also had some problems with the threads on some I got at home Depot. By experiment I found some metric bolts that were "close enough" to firmly, and repeatably, attach them to the base. After they are firmly set in the hull I remove the piece of wood that will be the final base and attach the hull to a scrap wood base. This provides a nice hands free environment for working on the hull. It can be clamped to the work table. Also it can be placed in a vise to allow working on the side of the hull without having the hull touch anything. With the finials well masked "for the duration" painting is also easy. When finished the model can meet it's finished base. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "John Snyder" Subject: Re: Classic Warships USS Pennsylvania 1/700 Hi Rob, I have the kit, and it depicts the ship with her shielded single 5" mounts, prior to installation of the dual 5"/38 mounts. John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys http://www.shipcamouflage.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Displaying full hulled ships This may or may not have been mentioned but I prefer do display my full hulled models "dry-dock" style.Well, not technically accurate as a real dry-dock is concerned, but a colorful name I gave the technique. See my article in FSM two issues back and it explains how I do mine. Another example of the same style is on the cover of the latest Model Ship Journal. Loren Perry's wonderful USS Arizona looks really nice displayed in that manner. There is also a "moored" waterline version of the same kit that's also super cool looking. Check it out. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ Order online with Visa & Master card (US only) "Yeah I want Cheesy Poofs" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "Rod Dauteuil" Subject: Monogram carriers Hi SMMLies, For old time's sake, I just bought 2 old Monogram kits currently available under the Revell-Monogram label. They are the USS Kitty Hawk and USS Nimitz aircraft carriers. I noticed in the photos on the Nimitz box, they used the Kitty Hawk model, but numbered it "68" with Nimitz decals. Talk about lazy! Are they that motivated by profit that they will intentionally misrepresent the kit? I guess they suppose the average person buying the kit won't be able to tell the difference, and maybe they were in a hurry for the photo shoot. I will give them credit for this--They no longer list the Kitty Hawk's scale as 1/600 on the box. Now they say it's 1/800, which is a lot closer to the true 1/789 scale it measures to be. Now if they would only market it correctly as the JFK, they'd have a believer here. Rod. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Bradford Chaucer Subject: Re: Brass pedestal parts >> One last point. At my local store the brass lamp parts did not have common sized threads . . . in stead of having 1/4 28 threads they had an odd threading of 1/4 27. This made it almost impossible to find the attaching hardware needed to make the installation. << Sounds like a pipe thread Regards, Bradford Chaucer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "Quinn Bracken" Subject: Requests for 1/350 Essex Hey everybody, For the last week, I have been cutting and pasting all Essex-related e-mails and conversations and sending them daily to Tamiya, USA. The more demands and noise you make, the better. Any further 1/350 Essex related material will continue to be cut and pasted and forwarded to Tamiya. They are probably already very sick of me, but I learned as a bratty little kid, that if you want something reeeeeeeally badly, you have to be LOUD about it! Keep it up! QuinnB -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: VessIrvine@aol.com Subject: Tamiya's Reluctance to Kitting the USS Arizona I have followed this thread with interest and think that perhaps the reason for Mr Tamiya's caution on modeling the Arizona, but not the Repulse, KGV, Indianapolis, e.t.a.l., may be because the Arizona was sunk and the 1,000 sailors were killed before the official declaration of war, by a couple of hours. I can only go by the various movies I have seen, especially Tora, Tora, Tora, which was scripted in large part by Japanese producers, and not just by Hollywood history revisionists. But I remember the scene where Admiral Yamamoto expresses deep concern over the failure of the embassy in Washington to deliver the war proclamation on time. You can almost see his mind thinking, "we murdered those men." The Japanese film producers made a "big deal" about this issue in the movie. Remember the excruciating scenes of the diplomat typing up the document with a one finger skill level as the clock went tick, tick, tick... Perhaps this is where Tamiya is having difficulty with a kit of the Arizona. I understand that Mr. Tamiya is an older gentleman whose generational value system makes the issue of honor different from perhaps today's American audience. Regards Vess Irvine Denver -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "M & R Brown" Subject: Re: HMS Montclare She was originally a mercantile requisition converted to an Armed Merchant Cruiser in 1939 and in 1943 became a depot ship for submarines with the pennant number of F85. Built as the "Metapedia" by John Brown in 1922 and per HT Lenton's book displaced 16,314 tonnes and was 549.5 ' x 70.25' x43.25'. Armed with 7 x 5.5" guns, 3 x 4" AA guns and 8 x .5" AA machine guns in twin mountings. As a depot ship she served in the Pacific Fleet from 1944 > 45. scrapped at Inverkeithing 3/2/58. Her sister ship was the Montcalm (HMS Wolfe). -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: Roland Mar Subject: Re: HMS MONTCLARE To: Martin Foley The best I can come up with is this. She was built at Clydebank as the METAPEDIA, launched 18 December 1921. 16314 grt. Leased by RN from Canadian Pacific Steamships as an Armed Merchant Cruiser in October 1939. I found that she was refitting in March 1940. She was armed at that time with 7-5.5" ( 7 x 1), 3-4" AA (3 x 1). I can't find deployment information for her as an AMC. In 1942 she was purchased outright and fitted as a submarine tender. After that conversion her stats were: 21,550 tons, 546(pp) 570(oa) x 70 x 27 3/4. 2 shaft geared turbines= 13,500 SHP = 16 kts. 4-4"AA (2 x 2), 32-2 pdr AA (4 x 8), 19-20mm AA (19 x 1). complement 1302. She served in the British Pacific Fleet 1944-45. I have one source that says she was used as a destroyer tender for a short period before she looked after subs, but that would require confirmation. 1948-1955 depot ship for 3rd Submarine Flotilla [from 1952 renamed 3rd Submarine Squadron to conform to NATO nomenclature] at the Gareloch. Scrapped February 2, 1958 at Inverkeithing. There is a picture of her sister ship, also fitted out as a submarine tender, on page 347 of H.T. Lenton's British and Dominion Warships of WW II. hope this is of some help Roland Mar -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: NEVENGER@aol.com Subject: Plastic styrene I found a rather interesting and free source of plastic styrene. Though it may not be that easy for most to get. I work in the Medical field as a service engineer and have found that the Agfa Dry Laser's film is shiped with a 14 X 17 inch of plastic styrene in each 100 sheet box of film. In most cases the styrene is thrown out with the empty box after the film is loaded (or at accounts that I service they save the styrene for me). It is of good quality and just as thick as the evergreen make. Not all hospitals or MRI/CT imaging centers use the Agfa Dry system and many still use the wet laser film systems, but if you know someone in the medical field or work in it yourself this may be a nice supply for you. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: "David's Mail" Subject: Re: Tamiya requests All this talk about Esssex Carriers. Personally I would like to see Tamiya do the following in 1:350 scale: a. HMS Hood b. HMS Rodney/Nelson c. USS North Carolina d. USS Tennessee e. USS Arleigh Burke But with all these famous ships only available in 1:700, or only in resin and costing an arm and a leg I will be satisfied with whatever is produced in 1:350. However I'm not into carriers, prefering battleships/battlecruisers/cruisers and destroyers and heaven help me, a Flower Class Corvette. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: "M & R Brown" Subject: Federal Standard Colours Is there such a thing as a list of FS colours that also tells you the Munsell reference of these colours? Michael Brown -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: Derek Wakefield Subject: Re: Hornet/Oriskany I think I'm gonna puke. I'd like to see the Oriskany saved, but on this side of the Pacific as a memorial to the USN's carrier efforts during the Korean & Vietnam conflicts (this also being the sentiment being voiced by some of the former crew of the ship). The scary part about this news is that we just might sell the ship to them given it's age, current condition, and the difficulty they've had trying to get it scrapped. The concern I have though is why China seems so intent on buying up all these old carriers. First it was the Melbourne, then the Minsk, and now the Oriskany. What's next...the Forrestal? Actually, I'm surprised that's not the one they're going for. Maybe I'm just being a bit paranoid, but it's known they're interested in developing their own naval aviation program, and with them gobbling up all these old carriers, it's hard to believe it's for the sole purpose of boosting their tourism revenues. Derek Wakefield -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: "NICK & JOY ROGERS" Subject: H.M.N.Z.S. WAIKATO (completed 1966) to be scuttled. mage of propellor on IJNS Yamato wreck I note with some sadness that one of N.Z.'s surplus Leander class frigates is to be sunk so as to be an `underwater wreck for diving purposes'. The sinking is scheduled for Armistice Day,11 November 2000. She is to lie some two hours fast ferry ride North of Auckland near the Poor Knights Islands Marine Reserve.Already charter trips for the morbidly ghoulish are being offered. Must admit I am tempted to go have a look see. The Australian Navy has recently subtly dealt with their surplus frigate problem by conducting MK 48 torpedo tests.Their website has an amazing set of still photos and a video of H.M.A.S. Torrens being blown to pieces. http://www.navy.gov.au/3_photo/sinkex.htm Are there other images of warship disposals/weapons tests on the internet? I need to know !!**?? I have seen a image of one the propellers from the wreck of the battleship Yamato.It was on the following website which now appears to be off-line. http://www.tv-asahi.co.jp/yamato/ Does anyone have a copy they could E-mail me off-line? Also,I have heard that a long lost set of General Arrangement drawings of Yamato were found recently.Are any images on the web yet? Regards, Nick Rogers -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://www.smml.org.uk Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://www.tac.com.au/~sljenkins/apma.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume