Subject: SMML VOL 1027 Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 00:36:21 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: wooden decks 2: Re: prefering battleships/battlecruisers/cruisers and destroyers to Essex 3: LPH Valley Forge 4: Osprey Jutland 1916 5: Re: HMS Upholder 6: H.M.S. Montclare 7: LPH-8 8: Re: LPH kits 9: Tamiya & USS Arizona, and a little about ICM 10: Re: Federal Standard Colurs 11: Re: Painting Wooden Decks 12: Re: Hasegawa Essex conversion to LPH 13: photoetch s.o.s 14: Screws 15: NNL Models 16: Russian surface ship kits 17: Sailing ship rigging 18: IJN Submarine Deck Color? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "chenyangzhang" Subject: Re: wooden decks Hi John >> In the British Navy, even in wartime, wooden decks were holystoned and mopped and squeegeed wvery day at some ungodly hour come rain or shine. I don't say we actually broke off an action to do it but that's about the only stopper unless in the hands of the dockies. I don't think the best paint would have lasted long, and to spill paint on the deck would have you at the yardarm in seconds. << Even the camouflaged wooden decks? I think Richard means some warships but NOT all. Chris Langtree -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: NEVENGER@aol.com Subject: Re: prefering battleships/battlecruisers/cruisers and destroyers to Essex In reading your typing of >> All this talk about Esssex Carriers. Personally I would like to see Tamiya do the following in 1:350 scale: a. HMS Hood b. HMS Rodney/Nelson c. USS North Carolina d. USS Tennessee e. USS Arleigh Burke << I do not think they are going to do some of them because ICM has already said they are going to some of what you list in 1/350 scale below... 1/350 HMS NELSON British BB YEAR about 2002 1/350 IJN TAKAO & IJN CHOKAI heavy cruiser YEAR about 2001 1/350 HMS HOOD 1941 about MAY 2001 I also heard a rumor that ICM may also do several other major battleships as well. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Dave Shirlaw Subject: LPH Valley Forge If you're planning making Valley Forge as an LPH, remember it had two of the twin 5in/38 mountings removed whereas the other two kept the original four. Dave Shirlaw Editor, Seawaves Magazine www.seawaves.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Marc Flake Subject: Osprey Jutland 1916 Just finished reading Osprey's JUTLAND 1916. It's well written and provided me with perhaps the clearest picture of this epic batle than any other version I've read. Book lenght explanations are too long, going into too much detail and muddying up the issues. Chapter-length descriptions in popular non-fiction is just too short. The Ospery book is "Just Right!" I do have a couple of quibbles, though. There are some major errors in the graphics. The "bird's eye view" on pages 48-49 incorrectly has a German cruiser group (Aufklarungsgruppe) in blue -- the RN color on all the graphics. The map on page 69 "Parting Shots" should be on page 81 "Escape" and vice-versa -- I think. I was able to follow the battle pretty well up until dusk, when things got murky for everyone. And the author provides a good reason for why Jellicoe waasn't able to intercept the High Seas Fleet at dawn. This is an English book and it provides a pretty convincing case for for an English victory - without coming right out and saying it, too. Personally, I've always considered it a victory. For those of you who are also on the WW1 list, it doesn't say whether the turrets on the Lutzow were olive or yellow.;^D Marc (now performing a Gefechskehrtwendung) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Steve Sobieralski" Subject: Re: HMS Upholder FWIW: The artwork in the old Warship Profile on HMS Upholder shows her in an overall blue color scheme with a black boot topping and red below the waterline. The caption calls the color "Mediterrarean Blue" and states that all the submarines in Upholder's flotilla carried this scheme into 1943. I understand that some of the Profiles have been discredited in recent years so this may not be good information. Steve Sobieralski -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Wannsee" Subject: H.M.S. Montclare Hi Guy's Many thanks for the info on the 'Montclare' now for the hard bit, I have a metal ships badge from her but have no idea of what colour's it should be. Can anybody help ??? Many thanks in advance Martin Foley mailto:naval@wannsee.co.za -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "Mark C Krumrey" Subject: LPH-8 I was on the USS Valley Forge (LPH-8) in 1969 as a Malaria patient. I also had several Lindberg Wasp Kits under my belt at this time, and was impressed with the real thing. As I wandered about the ship, I noticed a lack of armament. I was in the forward and rear tubs sans guns, looking out over the South China Sea. I watched movies on the Hangar deck, and without knowing what it was like as a CV, can say it probably had no major modifications. Deck was a real dark grey non skid, with the bulk heads and overhead painted white. It had the forward, aft, and port elevators. I rode the port elevator to the hangar deck, and then went down a level to the hospital ward. There was a lot of acitivity as a Marine Battalion Landing team was getting prepared to go into harms way. I was surprised that the hangar deck openeing enclosures were nothing more than a flexible garage door, corrugated metal like material, that could be raised or lowered depending on ships conditions. I noticed the wood of the flight deck, and the circular markings for the landing spots. It was definately LPH-8, as I wanted to buy a ships cap, but had no money as I had been medevaced with only my boots and trousers, and and was at that time in hospital blue pajamas. I did notice a "difference" in the superstructure, and the twin 5" 38's mounted on the fllight deck looked different too. I know this isn't a lot of help, but as I remembered the model bristling with guns, I was surprised by the lack of them being on the actual thing. I don't think there were a lot structural changes. Deck markings were different, to accomodate the helicopters. The superstructure looked different,and I suppose that was due to the single mast vice a tripod mast: I imagine it had an enclosed pri fly station on the aft portion of it, and the different gun mounts. It seemed real narrow, as I stood in it waiting for a chopper to take me back to Da Nang. Several months later I saw it up close as it passed us in the Da Nang Harbor, as I was on an LST going to Okinawa. It was definately a large ship, and neat to see something of WWII vintage relatively unchanged. Mark Krumrey New RIchmond WI -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Bradford Chaucer Subject: Re: LPH kits HI: Is there any real difer3ence between the Revel Tarawa kit and the new Academy Nassau LPH-4 kit?? Regards, Bradford Chaucer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: Mike Connelley Subject: Tamiya & USS Arizona, and a little about ICM Howdy: I think there are reasons other than historical for Tamiya how yet having produced a 1/350 Arizona. I personally don't buy the theory that they haven't produced one because they didn't get the declaration of war in time. It's true that was something of an issue....in 1941. Back then we (the US) got all bent out of shape because we (the Japanese) launched a "sneak attack". I understand the argument, but hey, that's war. Fast forward about 60 years. From what I can tell, most people have lay asside despising us (the Japanese) for launching a "sneak attack", although by no means have people forgotten the devastation of the attack. Every time I go out to Pearl Harbor, there are lots, and I mean LOTS, of Japanese tourists out at the memorial. I recall reading that it's the #1 tourist attraction in the state. Given the popularity of the Arizona to Japanese tourists, and that the domestic market is what Tamiya cares about and those of us on this side of the pond (or in my case, in the middle of it) are rather inconsequential, I think financially it'd be a big winner if Tamiya did make a Arizona. The popularity of the memorial and the fame of the ship are pretty much unparalleled, and with the Mo' bow-to-bow with her that fame is only going to grow. Speaking of other BBs, it's well known that ICM will come out with the 1/350 Hood (they claim) around November/December...in time for X-mas presumably. Hot on it's heels will be the Takao and Chokai. On thier web site they had the Rodney and Nelson "under development", but that's no longer there and apparently has been dropped. I've seen posted on the Warship page that they're working on the North Carolina, among other things. All these things, of course, depend on how many of the Hoods and Takaos and Chokais sell. The relatively obscure Konig ships are selling very well. Obviously the Hood will sell like it's nobody's business. I heard that they have enough pre-orders to break even, so many they don't know how to fill them all. The Takao and Chokai, while not as famous as the Hood, are the only 1/350 cruisers in plastic, much less IJN ones, and will similarly sell like hot cakes. Assuming these will sell as well as they should, you can bet on seeing more 1/350 ships in the future. For Tamiya, the domestic market is king, where 1/700 is king. Tamiya is busy tooling Ferrari F-1 cars and a Frankenstien-like 1/32 A6M5 kit. I mean, they haven't tooled a 1/350 kit in how long?? ICM are the guys who WANT to put out great 1/350 ship kits. Bombard them with email to do the Arizona. Really! Tamiya has shown nothing which suggests they want to do more large ships, while ICM has already released two and will release 3 more in the next ~6 months. They're the guys to email and send your requests to. To me, sending hoards of email to Tamiya is kinda like barking up the wrong tree. Cheers Mike Connelley Wisconsin Salvage Co. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: WRPRESSINC@aol.com Subject: Re: Federal Standard Colurs I look forward to some interesting answers. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: WRPRESSINC@aol.com Subject: Re: Painting Wooden Decks Ships of the RN operating in the Med in 1941 and 42 often went to Action Stations upon leaving Alexandria and did not stand down until their return many days later. The only crew that left their stations were those that brought round the food and emptied the buckets, (buckets that were filled with-----). Everybody else, and I mean everybody, did not leave their station. They slept, stood, sat, fought and performed natural functions at their posts, they did NOT leave. This state of affairs was COMMON! They did not clean the decks during these periods. In fact the low level of maintenance of the wooden deck cladding was the direct cause of the need for frequent and time consuming repair and replacement of same, to the extent that many cruisers during refit from 1942 onwards did not have the wood areas repaired, but just removed and replaced with semtex. This is not to say that decks were not cleaned, but there is no doubt that the frequency of cleaning was generally lower than in peacetime. This information comes from crew stories and official documentation. I would be interested to find out ship what Mr Wooten was on, in what time frame, and what area of operations? The Russian run? where ships operated for days at a stretch in a force eight gale! Just out of interest, can any old hand confirm if it is possible to holystone a deck in a gale of such strength? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: James Corley Subject: Re: Hasegawa Essex conversion to LPH From: "Ralph & Karen Batykefer" >> I noticed the Boxer, Princeton, and Valley Forge were all converted to LPH's. It is easy to see that they did not have the angled flight deck added, but had a SPS-8A and SPN-6 radar added. Are there other modifications to the exterior and hanger bays? Where could I find a listing of what modifications were made to convert them. Also, I have the 1/700 Hasegawa Essex model that I want to convert to an LPH. What is required to do so? << From what I've seen in a pair of cruise books and a few other sources, just add helos. Well, it's not quite that simple but here is a description of what I can see of Valley Forge, Boxer & Princeton: no 40mm mounts in bow or stern tubs - no evidence of any 40mm mounts no 20mm in deck galleries 51 & 54 mounts removed, spaces plated over (except on Boxer) all 40mm hull sponsons removed (except on Boxer) 5" galleries have 1 "outboard" gun only SCB-27A mods to island including pole mast -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "tomoyuki chuah" Subject: photoetch s.o.s hi guys, umm..i know this might sound stupid but i never use any photoetched parts on my ship before this.i'm wondering whether the usual sprue cutter can be used to cut photoetched parts. can anyone recommend any special cutter for the job,the distributor and the price? thanks in advance.... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "Daniel Taylor" Subject: Screws Hi All, Having gone to all the trouble of scratchbuilding a ship, I'm now in trouble. After months of dealing with compound curves, I find myself unable to either build suitable propellors or to find any of an appropriate size to purchase. Can anyone help? The size of propellor I am after is 17mm in diameter (21/32"), the outer thickness of the shaft the blades sit on is 3mm (7/64") and, just to make things complicated, this particular craft had contra-rotating blades. I don't know the best way to describe the distance fwd to aft (maybe pitch?), but the plans I am using show a measurement of 7.5mm (9/32"). I don't mind having another go myself if someone can suggest a reliable method that can be attempted without the use of lathes etc. I have a chap who is going to cast some for me if I can get hold of any or I'm happy to buy them if they are commercially available - I will require a number. Any help would be warmly appreciated. Thanks, Dan Taylor -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "leigh crutchley" Subject: NNL Models Anyone have any information on a companny called NNL? They are supposedly putting out a model of the HMAS Sydney. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: Bergschöld Pelle Subject: Russian surface ship kits To the gentleman asking for russian surface ships in 1/700. First, I agree on the choice of most elegant cruiser in the world. The Slava is astonoshingly beautiful, and it is a shame that there isn't any kit representing it. As it is a shame that noone has produced a kit representing the most powerful combat ship ever launched, the Kirov-class cruiser. I am not aware of a kit representing any of the ships you mentioned, but there are a few others to make a surface action group: - Udaloy-class DDG by Skywave. Beautiful kit, as almost always by Skywave. - Sovremenny-class DDG by Skywave or DML. I have the DML-version, and I like it a lot. In my opinion, this is also a very elegant ship. - Krivak I/II FFG by Skywave. Not a very big ship, but a nice one. Comes two in each pack. - Kynda-class CG by Skywave/Hi-mold, I believe. I haven't seen it in person though. Resin. That was the blue-water navy. DML has also given out two sets dealing with the brown-water component. - Russian missile corvettes. You may build two Nanuchka I or two Nanucka III or one of each. - Russian missile crafts. The set contains two Osa-boats and two Tarantul-class corvettes. From this you may as in the Nanuchka-set above build two versions as you choose. A modern russian CVBG could very likely consist of the Kuznetzov (Italeri/Testors 1/720) and a few Udaloy's and Sovremenny's. If you scratchbuild some kind of AOE, and add a Krivak or two, you'd very likely be there. Good luck. Pelle SWE -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: John Richards Subject: Sailing ship rigging Hi Does anyone know of a website that includes close up drawings of the sail and rigging arrangements of sailing warships from about the time of the Armada to the 18th century? MTIA John -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: Mike Hall Subject: IJN Submarine Deck Color? Curious on the deck (wood surfaces) color of IJN Submarines. All my referances are in b/w, and some appear to be the same color as the hull, while others a different, lighter color? Thanks All Mike Hall -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://www.smml.org.uk Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://www.tac.com.au/~sljenkins/apma.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume