Subject: SMML VOL 1043 Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 22:17:24 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Southampton class mainmast 2: Re: Future publications (what I would do) 3: Re: WW 2 Ships still afloat 4: Scharnhorst Camouflage 5: Re: WW11 rn ships still afloat 6: Hemmingway's fishing boat 7: Fletcher class DD 8: Re: Tripod Masts 9: Pearl Harbor 10: Bogue class CVEs - WW II 11: Monitor Bechelaren 12: Re: ICM site 13: Re: WWII Ships still afloat (USS COD) 14: Ray's Requests 15: British tour 16: Re: Update on Conditions Aboard Cole 17: Re: books to do next 18: Re: Raising the USS Monitor VCR alert 19: Natilius Gato Conversion help 20: Re: Books to do next 21: Re: More Info on/from USS Cole 22: Fwd: Pentagon Honors Navy's 'Men of Honor' -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Infomation 1: Re: Dreadnought 2: Re: Gold Winning HMS Dreadnaught at Telford -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: New books 2: MAGS AND BOOKS FOR SALE 3: Hunley kits 4: Model Ship Journal--December Plans -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "chenyangzhang" Subject: Southampton class mainmast Hi Jim The legs on the Southampton's mainmast (aft tripod mast) connected to the aft starfish and didn't join together. They were connected by separate webs between the legs which also formed part of the support structure for the starfish. Raven and Roberts Ensign No.5 'Town Class Cruisers' has several good photos showing this arrangement. Chris Langtree -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Future publications (what I would do) Steve Wiper's interest isn't in modern warships. So I doubt very seriously if we ever see any modern titles in the Warship Perspective series. I wish SOMEONE would do a series of books on the modern era. Talk about a neglected niche! The last books I can recall dealing with modern ships (in affordable books) was the Detail & Scale series and from what I hear they're gone for good now. If I run into enough money to start a series of modern vessel books, I'll do it. Much more is involved doing such books besides writing. I understand why modern subjects are overlooked. It comes down to money. There just isn't nearly as much interest in the modern vessels as the historically rich WW-2 era ships. Also, there are very few modern ship model kits available compared to the WW-2 era models, although it's getting better. So modern naval enthusiasts will have to settle for magazine articles until someone decides to cover the modern era. Having said that, here's my list. 1) Arleigh Burke class 2) Perry class 3) Charles F. Adams class (modern) 4) Nimitz class 5) Ticonderoga / Spruance class 6) Galveston class (1960s era) 7) Tarawa class carriers Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ Order online with Visa & Master card (US only) "Yeah I want Cheesy Poofs" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: RhinoBones@aol.com Subject: Re: WW 2 Ships still afloat >> I am willing to make a list for everybody, and of course not just WW2 but WW1 as well so if you know about that Dreadnaught hiding away let us know!!!!!!!! << Some of the list making has already been done for you. There is a site for Pre-Dreadnought Preservation, which includes many WW II subjects, located at: http://www.oz.net/~markhow/pre-dred/ Wonderful site. Plenty of good links, photographic tours and factual information. Also, if you are interested, I have an Excel spreadsheet database of every kit I have found offered on the web for the Turn of the Century time period. Approximately 1880 thru WW I. The data base contains the era/decade, scale, type designation, name, manufacturer, source(s) and ambient price. Free to any good home. Regards, RhinoBones -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Pletscher-Lenz-Schneider" Subject: Scharnhorst Camouflage >> Is there a consensus regarding the WW2 Scharnhorst's FINAL camouflage scheme? I seem to recall it having a light grey bow & stern and a very dark grey mid section... << Sorry, Frank, I do not agree with this assumption. In my understanding, she wore a multi-color disruptive scheme based on a suggestion of the Dechend memorandum. As for the decks, they were most probably unpainted (if you mean the wooden decks), as this was the usual practice with the Kriegsmarine. Falk Pletscher -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: PT191@aol.com Subject: Re: WW11 rn ships still afloat Hi Guys, Say listen. There is a Trust in England (Southampton) that is restoring a couple of MTBs, a MGB and a CMB - they've already restored two ASRLs (ASRL 102 and 206)and they have acquired a HSL (HSL 142). T. Garth Connelly -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: Ray8017@aol.com Subject: Hemmingway's fishing boat does anybody have any background info on the PILAR fishing boat owned by Ernest Hemingway. ray8017@aol.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: Ray8017@aol.com Subject: Fletcher class DD the " Repeat Fletcher "class of 1941-42 destroyer hull numbers were 649-804..looking for a little background on that class destroyer. ray8017@aol.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Craig R Bennett Subject: Re: Tripod Masts Hi Guys About the request about HMS Southampton.That ship is a Town class cruiser. Try to find thru the library this book British Cruisers of WW2 by Alan Raven and John Roberts ,Arms and Armour Press,1980. It has many photos,drawings and good techincal detail about each cruiser class design. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "A. H. Lindstrom" Subject: Pearl Harbor With the 60th anniversary of the Pearl Harbor attack only a bit over a year away, I wanted to review what kits of the battle line are currently available in 1/700: Nevada Classic Warships Arizona Classic Warships Vestal Corsair Armada Maryland Pit Road/Hi-Mold (need to add bulges for 12/7/41) Oklahoma Classic Warships West Virginia Pit Road/Hi-Mold Tennessee Neosho California Jim Shirly kit long OOP Does the 60th present a marketing opportunity for someone? Fill in the gaps and sell them all as a package? Alan -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: HAZEGRAYADM@aol.com Subject: Bogue class CVEs - WW II Have I found an error in two of my favorite books about WW II CVEs by Terzibaschitsch and Squadron Signal? They both say that the Bogue, Card & Core had two catapults on deck and that the rest of the class has only one. I have found no photo evidence of same so far. I have doubts because the second cat would have to be run thru the forward elevator since the small space to starboard would allow no clearance for even the small wingspan of an FM-2, let alone a TBM. My,"Bible" (Friedman's book on USN CVs) states nothing about a second cat except for the Sangamon class CVEs, which may be where the mistake may have been gathered. If anyone has an answer to this mystery (Which could include plans,drawings,photos, etc.), I would really appreciate it. Bert McD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: RhinoBones@aol.com Subject: Monitor Bechelaren Need a bit of help with Samek's 1:700 river monitor Bechelaren, the former 1931 Czechoslovakian President Masaryk. Would like to hear from anyone who has built this kit, seen the kit and/or knows of a published review. What I would really like to know is where on the web I can find a picture of the ship . . . especially a picture which shows the hull below the waterline. Regards, RhinoBones -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: peter samolinski Subject: Re: ICM site ICM's website is and their email address is icmusa@hotmail.com BTW, the two times I e-mailed them I got an almost immediate response, and one of those times was to ask for the decals I didn't receive with the kit (which I did get in the mail from them). Pete -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "JAmes McCormick" Subject: Re: WWII Ships still afloat (USS COD) Well, my addition to this list - USS Cod, an early Gato class sub, is afloat and doing well here in Cleveland, Ohio. The Cod had a "modestly" productive(should it be DESTUCTIVE instead?) war, and sat in mothballs for a great while. Along about 1957, she was transfered to the naval reserves, and brought into the great lakes to be used as a training vessel. Eventually, the reseves found her to be a tad on the expensive side, and getting more than a little bit long in the tooth, so they set her aside. One of the Cod's crew men, while driving about the area looking for a place to fish, spotted her, and I can only guess the look on his face. Imagine, you go to wwar in 1942, half way around the world, only to come home, rasie a family, and retire to a life of fishing. There, in a backwater lagoon, on lake Erie, is the EXACT ship you fought on!!! Anyhow, he started a drive to get the city of Cleveland to adopt her, and make her a museum/monument. He put in alot of work, and finally got his way. The Cod had been a Cleveland landmark for about 30 or so years, and stands as a proud example of the attitude of what Mr Brokaw so aptly named "The Greatest Generation". As an aside, the Cod is the ONLY submarine wholly intact and unmodified in any way(external/internal) from her wartime configuration. On rare occasion, you may see an ambulance parked in front of the Cod, ya see, you just can't fit a umm.... let's just say large posterior.. through some of those hatches. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: Duane Fowler Subject: Ray's Requests Hello Ray, A short background on the Yamato up to her sinking and a list of submarine kit manufacturers. I hope you realize that there have been several books writen on the first subject and there probably could be books written on the second! Could you perhaps be a bit more specific? Most manufacturers of model ship kits also produce submarine kits. They are available in a number of scales and of vastly different qualities. The resin kits are often the most expensive but tend to have the best detail. As for a condenced history of the Yamato: She was launched, fitted and comissioned, hidden, refitted, paraded out only to be bombed, hidden and refit again, sent out on a suicide mission and sunk without ever sighting an enemy ship. Regards, Duane Fowler USCG.net -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: Duane Fowler Subject: British tour Hello all, Well, the Telford show was great! I am a bit disapointed that I spent two days dressed as an American sailor in Britain and didn't receive a single proposition! Anyway, I am spending three more weeks here and would like some advice: Where to go (be nice) What to see Thanks! Best Regards, Duane (I'm overseas but not at work) Fowler -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: MDDoremus@aol.com Subject: Re: Update on Conditions Aboard Cole Robert, Thanks for the update. Local news has just about forgotten that there is a US Navy, let alone that anything unpleasant happened to it lately. Mark Doremus -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: Bradford Chaucer Subject: Re: books to do next >> Personally I think that a book on the Indiana class (BB1-3) would be good. With the Glencoe Oregon and the PE kits that go with it. I would also like to see something done on the USS Olympia, since it is the only Spanish-American warship still afloat. << I second Third and Fourth that !!!!! Lets not forget the ACR-3 Brooklyn Regards, Bradford Chaucer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: Dbrown303@aol.com Subject: Re: Raising the USS Monitor VCR alert I wonder if they will ever raise the CSS Virginia (converted from the US Merrimac frigate during early 1862. I actually have a piece of her from when the Navy divers did a survey of the wreck back in the 70's. They made up a few plaques, each with a piece of the iron plate, and presented them to the upper brass of the Navy. Plaque has a very nice heavy bonze relief of the ship with the hull piece underneath, and a data plate noting when the ship was converted,and the 'first armored ship to engage in battle 8 March, 1862, Hampton Roads, Virginia'. Anyone know how many of these plaques the Navy did (I was told 12 but he was not sure)? Buffie -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: MDDoremus@aol.com Subject: Natilius Gato Conversion help Folks, I've just about got the casting stub off of the conning tower. And I cleaned off the mounts for the plastic conning tower on Revell's Lionfish/Drum/Growler. Question is, how far back from the front of the boat should the front edge of the conning tower be? I'm using the early war conversion. Revell places the cut down conning tower ~104 real feet back. FDD's plan looks like it might be 106 feet, but the drawing is also for a cut down conning tower. Any good ideas or alternate sources? As cast, my conning tower has blind holes for the deadlights along the front of the tower. It looks like the one on the centerline filled up during casting. Should there be a deadlight there? Also any good ideas on how to treat these? Should I drill them all the way out, or paint the bottom gloss back and then fill with something like Krystal Klear when I'm done? TIA Mark Doremus Eden Prairie, MN -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: isublett@home.com Subject: Re: Books to do next After reading all the other suggestions for Steve Wiper, I thought I would throw in my two-cents worth. Steve, try to stay with indiviual ships as much as possible and stay with U.S. subjects. I believe there is plenty of unused material out there which could stand collecting. Concentrating on one ship is useful for the modeler as well as the historian (or antiquarian?). Doing this will give you a unique series. While doing other navies may be good (and, perhaps, a change of pace), others are and have may have already done the job. We modelers don't really know much about the published resources already produced in countries not our own or outside our immediate interests. While this may sound like a dull invitation for the shoemaker to stay at his last, the product of that last has been anything but dull and of such quality as to keep the customers tongues hanging out. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: "Bruce" Subject: Re: More Info on/from USS Cole Now lets stop bitching about what we don't have unless all you SMMLies can say you have sleep on a steel deck, and had all your meals at your duty station, and start supporting our young women \ men in uniform by sending either E~mail or by FPO mail our holidays are coming up what person would not love to here from one of us,around Christmas time or Thanksgiving, thank you P.S.! happy modeling -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: "Robert J. Bartolacci" Subject: Fwd: Pentagon Honors Navy's 'Men of Honor' Press Service wrote: By Linda D. Kozaryn American Forces Press Service WASHINGTON, Oct. 23, 2000 -- Essential, yet unheralded, Navy divers work deep beneath the seas to save lives, recover remains and salvage equipment. It's a dangerous job, physically demanding, infinitely challenging. Pentagon leaders honored the Navy's past and present deep sea divers here Oct. 21 and gave "four stars" to a new film about one of the Navy's diving heroes. Due to open nationwide Nov. 10, "Men of Honor" tells the story of retired Master Chief Petty Officer Carl Brashear, the first African-American to become a Navy diver. Brashear, the son of a Kentucky sharecropper, joined the Navy in 1948, the same year President Harry S. Truman ordered racial integration of the military. He overcame race, origin and, later, the loss of a leg, to become a "master diver." The movie stars Academy-award winners Cuba Gooding Jr. and Robert DeNiro. Gooding plays Brashear and DeNiro appears as Master Chief Billy Sunday, Brashear's hard-edged opponent - turned-mentor. The film portrays their courage, determination and perseverance. "It's excellent, partly because of its veracity," Navy Secretary Richard Danzig said following the Washington premiere. "It addresses issues that are uncomfortable, like the history of discrimination in the Navy. But it also emphasizes things that are the best about the Navy -- the sense of honor and the ability of people to get ahead within it." Danzig attended the screening along with Defense Secretary William S. Cohen, his wife Janet Langhart Cohen, members of the Navy's diving community and other guests. Cohen hailed the 20th Century Fox production as one of the most inspirational he's seen. "Carl Brashear will live in the hearts and minds of people the world over as a result of Cuba capturing that indomitable spirit that he has," Cohen said. That same spirit, he noted, "fires the hearts and minds of all who serve in the Navy and every service." The Navy will be proud to have a star of Gooding's caliber portray the real-life hero, Cohen continued. "I think the Navy will come away from this saying, 'This is what we do. This is who we are every day.' I think everyone's going to come away from this movie truly reflecting about the commitment of all of those who are serving in uniform." At a reception following the film, Langhart Cohen thanked Brashear for the inspirational story. "What you did made it possible for people like me to do all the things I'm able to do. You are a part of our greatest generation." Cohen presented the Secretary of Defense Award for Outstanding Public Service to Brashear for his 42 years of service both as a member of the military and the federal civilian work force. The citation called the retired sailor "an inspiration to all Americans to strive for goals that demand the best of their abilities, to make sacrifices, to put the welfare of others above their own, to dream and to turn those dreams into reality." The ceremony's formality ended abruptly when, just as Brashear stepped up to the podium, the master of ceremonies announced, "Ladies and gentlemen, please join me in welcoming the Secretary of the Navy, Richard Danzig." With Danzig waiting to the side, Brashear stood at the podium and slowly glanced left and right at the audience. The retired master chief then broke into a wide smile and said, "Now that's a promotion!" He went on to say that he had received numerous awards during his "fabulous" naval career, but receiving an award from the defense secretary had touched his heart. "I loved the United States Navy in '48 when I joined, and I love the United States Navy today," he said. "I will say, it wasn't a bed of roses, but it was so rewarding. Thank you." Navy Cmdr. Mark Helmkamp and Master Chief Petty Officer John Schnoering, both from the Navy Diving and Salvage School at Panama City, Fla., presented Brashear with a framed Navy diving certificate. They also made Gooding an honorary diver. Helmkamp is the school commander; Schnoering, the school's senior enlisted sailor, is a machinist's mate and master diver. "Tonight, we want to pay tribute to you for a truly amazing performance," Cohen said to the actor. "All the Navy divers I've talked to said 'Cuba Gooding Jr. took to the water like a professional,'" Cohen told the audience. Then turning to Gooding, the secretary joked, "You're still young enough to sign up." "Men of Honor," Cohen said, reminds people just how great the Navy is. The timing of the film's release is particularly poignant, he noted, as it comes in the wake of the terrorist attack on the USS Cole that killed 17 and injured 45, he said. "Most people do not realize the role the Navy divers played in helping to extract those who were trapped in the Cole and then working around the clock without electricity, power generation, in the dark. With all the chaos, confusion and mayhem they were able to help save that ship." The secretary reported that FBI officials are making great progress investigating the attack and getting full support from the Yemeni government. "We're hoping they can conclude the investigation as soon as possible so we can hold those responsible accountable and make sure no one ever attacks American sailors, airmen, soldiers, Marines or Coast Guardsmen without paying a penalty for it," he said. The secretary stressed that service members throughout the armed forces risk their lives daily in the line of duty. He said that over the past two weeks, he'd received word that one pilot had been lost and another was missing off the coast of California. "What Janet and I have tried to do for four years now is to reconnect America to its military, to see the heroism and the patriotism that is displayed every day," he said. Unfortunately, he noted, it takes a tragedy to remind people that service members put their lives on the line every day. "We are sleeping safely under this blanket of freedom because of what they do," he stressed. "We want every American to go up and say thank you when they see a man or woman in uniform. Say, 'Thanks for what you do for us. We're allowed to be all that we can be because of what you do.' http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Oct2 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Infomation -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Graham Walker" Subject: Re: Dreadnought Big Jim Baumann, he also took the first 4 places in the smallwarships class, Me and John had a hell of a time judging this class -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Subject: Re: Gold Winning HMS Dreadnaught at Telford Hello Mike, The guy who owns the superb model of HMS Dreadnaught that took the Gold Medal in class 52 is non other than Jim (My eyesight is fading fast) Bauman. Another true work of art from this true gentleman. The rigging on this vessel is a very fine yarn that I provided him with a few months ago, having myself obtained some rolls from a hosiery factory. A whole lot finer than fishing line and colours with an ordinary felt marker pen. I have been using this stuff for rigging for a couple of years now, but having got plenty of it, I have made it available to those that wish to take a risk with their sanity, from Dave and Caroline at WEM when they have figured out how to package it. The aerial spreaders are also another part that I provided him with. It was a special request from him and had to be done as a photo etch project. If you think those ones are small, wait till you see the 1/700 scale versions. That is if he can do it!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The bets are on. I shot myself in the foot there really, as the HMAS Sydney FFG03, a BWN OH Perry, that took the silver in the same class, was mine. No matter though. The ammount of work that Jim had to put into the Dreadnought to get it to that standard was deserving of a medal for the effort alone. All of the ships classes that had been provided for were well subscribed and the quality was excellent, although in my opinion, entrants have got to get used to not using the ships diorama class for floating "military vehicles". In the same breath, there was one very good ship diorama sitting in the middle of the military vehicle section. When the pictures come out, all will be evident. As far as the rest of the show was concerned, what a weekend!!!!!!!!! To find visitors and vendors from all over the world under one roof was really amazing. I wish it had been for longer as I did not get to see it all. One thing is for sure, it will be a talking point for a long time to come. All the best Peter Hall WEM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Keith Butterley Subject: New books Hi group, From Crecy: Task Force 57 The British Pacific Fleet, 1944-45 Canada $27Cdn, $18US/Intl, UK 13.50 GBP These three from Pen & Sword: HMS Trenchant, From Chatham to Banka Strait (November), Canada $49Cdn, $33US/Intl $18US, UK24.50 GBP Warspite (November), Canada $49Cdn, $33US/Intl $18US, UK24.50 GBP British Submarines in the Great War (November), Canada $49Cdn, $33US/Intl $18US, UK 24.50 GBP Please check out my site for a full description. I would also urge to watch the site over the next few days as I will be adding a modeling book section and fianlly getting some titles in to the Sky Wars and Military sections. He said crossing his fingers. Regards Keith Butterley http://www.warshipbooks.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: David Loughhead Subject: MAGS AND BOOKS FOR SALE Shane, as requested in your earlier email I detail here with items I have available for sale. 1) "The Navy" magazine. 40+ as new copies. ($65 plus postage) This is the official mag for the Navy League of Australia. 2)Militaria. #96. Royal Navy in Pictures Vol 1 $20. " " . #106. German Navy WW2 in Pictures. $20. " " . #4. Japanese Destroyers 1920 - 45. $20. " " . #7. Deutschland/Lutzow. $20. 3) BS Firma. #1. HMS Ajax. $16-50. " " . #5. HMS Warsprite. $16-50. " " . #15. HMS York. $16-50. 4) Nautilus. Scharnhorst/Gneisneau. $20. 5) Okredy. IJN Nagato BB. $20. 6) Detail & Scale. USS Forestall $25. 7) Schiffer. Graf Zeppelin $20. 8) PSL. (H/C) HMS Ark Royal (last carrier) $30. 9) Conway. Aircraft Carriers of the USN. (H/C) $65. 10) Historian. Fighting Ships of Australia & NZ. $15. 11) Tamiya - 1/700 Waterline series - Guide + Details $30. " " - IJN Warship Details Vol 1. $30. " " - IJN Warship Details Vol 2. $30. 12) Seaways Ship Scale Mag. Vols 8/5,8/6,9/1 & 9/2.$15 the lot. 13) Squadron Signal In Action Series - U-Boats, US Battleships Pt1 and Pt2, Essex Carriers, Escort Carriers, US Submarines & Destroyer Escorts. $15 each. 14) Ships Data - #1 USS Nth Carolina BB. $20. All are in "as new" condition. Postage is additional. Prices are quoted in Australian Dollars. Credit cards are welcome. With thanks, David Loughhead. Fax - (613) 9751-1667. Phone (613) 9751-2166. Email - mailto:mworks@fhills.hotkey.net.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Ray8017@aol.com Subject: Hunley kits we have resin kits on the Hundley made by Cottage Industries ray8017@aol.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Victor M. Baca" Subject: Model Ship Journal--December Plans Scratch and kit builders will get a triple treat in the December issue of Model Ship Journal. We will be presenting the following three plans: 1. USS WICHITA (CA-45), courtesy of the Classic Warships Collection 2. U.S. Naval WWII LIBERTY SHIP 1/1250 Scale 3. U.S. Lighthouse Service Lightship STONEHORSE (W/on-board photos) 1/96 scale we will also present another supurb article by Loren Perry. This time a 2-part series on building the RMS Titanic in plastic. Subscribe soon and don't miss the boat. For those of you who prefer buying magazines "off the rack", we are agressively pursuing hobby shop retail sales--both here in the U.S. and abroad. Ask for Model Ship Journal at your hobby shop or mail order retailer. Our program favors the retailer and they should have no problem getting it for you (if they don't stock MSJ already). May your models gather no dust, Victor Baca Editor & Publisher MODEL SHIP JOURNAL www.modelshipjournal.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://www.smml.org.uk Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://www.tac.com.au/~sljenkins/apma.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume