Subject: SMML VOL 1046 Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 18:25:01 +1000 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Gato class sub colors 2: Skytrex Victory 3: Re: USMC Amtracs 4: Kursk Sailor's Note Found: '...None of Us Can Get Out' 5: Gold bullion 6: PT117 Conversion to PT171 7: Re: BLUE MARLIN 8: Re: Skytrex 9: 1.) HMS Manchester 2.) Lokomotives in french harbors 10: Re: USS Cole's namesake 11: Letter wrighting 12: The Key 13: Odds and ends 14: USS Cole's namesake - Sgt Darrell Cole, USMCR 15: Spanish Cruiser 16: Cole's namesake 17: NEED BOOK 18: Newport News Photos 19: IJN carrier reference 20: Contest Question 21: Re: 1/350 Beehive Enterprise 22: Re: Bullion Cruiser 23: Re: Ship's Bell 24: ACW ironclad kits 25: Re: New book out --PRE-DREADNOUGHT ALERT! 26: Re: Nautilus Gato 27: ACW ships 28: NOTE FOUND IN RUSSIAN SUB SAYS 23 SAILORS INITIALLY SURVIVED KURSK BLAST 29: Re: Bullion cruiser -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: 1/350 CF ADAMS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Tom Eisenhour Subject: Gato class sub colors Sean Obrien wrote: >> He's always said his boat was all black which would be Measure 9 I think. Should the decking be painted too? And was the whole boat black above and below the waterline? << Hi Sean, I have two bits of advice. The first has to do with painting: don't paint the submarine black. All-black models look "dead" so use a very dark gray (maybe even as light as Testor's Modelmaster Gunship Gray) with darker shading around the edges and at panels, etc. Study the techniques armor modelers use. Paint the lower portion of the hull in a slighly darker shade of gray than the upper hull, deck, and fairwater -- but still not all the way to black. The second bit of advice has to do with how you treat the limber holes on the hull casing. This is a presentation model, I assume being built on a deadline, so don't get too hung up with trying to open them. Get a 00 Rapidograph pen and some Pelikan FT black ink and fill them in. You'll be surprised how good it will look. Maybe Jim Corley has some specific advice. Jim had a beautiful Gato at the IPMS/USA Nationals. If you want to see what can be done with the Revell kit go to http://www.webenet.net/~ftoon/memory/f_memory.html for photos of Tom Dougherty's outstanding model of the USS Blenny (SS-324). Good luck with your project, Tom Eisenhour -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Chris Drage" Subject: Skytrex Victory Hi Ed et al, Subject: Skytrex's HMS Victory >> Has anybody seen this kit? << One has! >> What was missing was a good close-up picture of the hull casting. << Not any longer - I have just taken some of my kit. When they are developed I will post a scan or two for all to see on the SMML site. >> What is the level of detail of the hull? << Extraordinary for a metal casting! I am knocked out by the quality now coming out of the Skytrex forge... their HMS Norfolk (Type 23) is very good and with some etch brass detailing it will build into an excellent model. >> I've seen the GHQ version. How do they compare? Are there open gun ports with guns run out, or are the lid closed? << I wouldn't know how the two versons compare. I do know what I expect these days from a 1:700 model and these square riggers come right up to the mark with perhaps one exception - the ratlines are too coarse they really need to be made with finer quality brass. Still this is new branch for Skytrex and a very welcome one. I look forward to their proposed County Class cruisers and the Battle-of-the-River-Plate cruisers. All gun ports are modelled open with guns in place. >> Are their separate small boats, or are they cast as part of the hull? << There are separate small boats and a set of three, nested, thus moulded together. Victory has the boat support struts modelled as well but this is a separated item to allow you to paint the detail in the upper gun deck. I think congratulations all round are due to JB who scooped the model ship awards at the UK Nationals....not that I was able to get there this year... {;¬( Regards, Chris He tao rakau e taea te karo, tena he tao kupa kaore e taea te karo......(Te Reo Maori) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: john.baumann@talk21.com Subject: Re: USMC Amtracs From: "Mike Leonard" >> OK, not a ship but it still goes in the water. Seeking references for the US Marine Corps AAVP7A1 amphibious assault vehicle. I just discovered a new HO scale model by Trident (similar to Roco Minitanks) in a local hobby shop. << Response: UK Draughtsman Geoff Lacey has undertaken several plans of Buffalo's and USMC LVTs. More recently, the French "Steel-Masters" provided some excellent drawings by Hubert Cance on WWII and post-war amphibians. Obtain issue/s No.16 & 17: Modern Amphibians, LVTP5 series. No.20 & 21: LVT2s. No.30: Part I, US & GB use of LVT4. No.31: Part II & No.32: Part III. LVT4s (French, Post-war, Indo-China etc). "Steel-Masters" are available from Barbarossa Books at £5.00 Sterling each. Contact details are: 14B Maldon Road, Tiptree, Essex, CO5 0LL, UK. Tel 01621-810810 / Fax 01621-810888. barbbook@dircon.co.uk I may have other stuff so please contact me offline and provide SAE or IRCs and I will see what I can do. John Baumann Information Officer, Miniature Armoured Fighting Vehicle Association -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: JRKutina@webtv.net (John Kutina) Subject: Kursk Sailor's Note Found: '...None of Us Can Get Out' http://www.nytimes.com/2000/10/27/world/27KURS.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "chenyangzhang" Subject: Gold bullion Hi Craig French gold was transferred to Canada but this was carried by Revenge and Bretagne neither of which was torpedoed in 1940. The story might be the Edinburgh which was sunk transporting Russian gold bullion for the US in May 1942. This gold went down with the ship and was only salvaged in the 1980s though Chris Langtree -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Leslie Brown" Subject: PT117 Conversion to PT171 I understand that the latest edition of the IPMS(USA) magazine has an article on converting the Revell PT117 to a late war PT171. Can anyone let me have a copy? Thanks in advance Les Brown -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "Matthew Prager" Subject: Re: BLUE MARLIN To clarify my post from yesterday, I have .jpg files of drawings of the BLUE MARLIN. I can also provide a WORD document that has the drawings scale out to 1/700 (you will have to print it on Legal, 8.5"x14", paper). Those of you who would like a copy, email me off list and let me know which you desire and I'll email them to you. Matt Prager -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: SantMin@aol.com Subject: Re: Skytrex >> Napoleonic ships for almost 30 years (Hi Bob Santos) and the Skytrex have really improved, but they still have a ways to go to beat GHQ. Considering the humongus price I hope the 1:700 Skytrex ships are much better. << (and Hi to you too Chuck Duggie) We will find out, I simply HAD to order one of them to see. Bob Santos -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "Christian Griesser" Subject: 1.) HMS Manchester 2.) Lokomotives in french harbors Hi there, 1.) I search pictures about the HMS Manchester. (If possible from the back and the Helicoper-bay open (?!?)). 2.) A collegue tries to build an (german-occupied) french harbor during the WW II. So, what he needs is any information about french (and german) lokomotives, which have been used in such an harbor. Best regards, Christian Griesser -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: RhinoBones@aol.com Subject: Re: USS Cole's namesake >> I was looking throught the USS Cole website and found the biography of the ship's namesake, Sergeant Darrell Cole, USMCR. << I didn't know the history behind the name . . . thank you very much for sharing this with the SMML. Makes me proud to be among the x-Jarheads. Regards, RhinoBones -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Bruce" Subject: Letter wrighting Now I just know some of the SMMLies, must have kids in this age Group? and It can't hurt to send letters off to our service personal Over~sea's and on Board all Naval ships around the world, Maybe Just Maybe in this small way we all scale ship model Builders can Say thanks to those that protect us 24\7 365 days,, I received this e~mail so I'm passing it along thank you, and happy modeling, PS! No your not going to win a prize scale ship {so what} does it always have to be a scale model your winning? >> Prepared by the American Forces Press Service LETTER WRITING CONTEST AIMED AT OVERSEAS TROOPS The Defense Commissary Agency is once again teaming with the producers of a popular show touring U.S. military bases to ramp up support for a holiday letter writing campaign. The contest runs through Nov. 11. Letters must be between 100 and 150 words long and begin with, "Dear Service Member, I just want to say thanks for ... ." Official entry forms can be picked up from displays in commissary stores, and letters can be mailed or returned to the commissary displays. Visit the contest Web site at http://www.letters-from-the-front.com/contest2.htm for information, complete rules and downloadable entry forms. Prizes will be awarded in three age groups: under 12, 12-18 and over 19. The two grand-prize winners under 19 will receive $3,000 scholarships; the adult grand- prize winner will receive a $3,000 computer system. Local prizes will also be awarded for winning entries returned through the commissaries. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "Victor M. Baca" Subject: The Key Thanks to SMML members, I was able to identify and obtain a copy of Carol Reed's film, "The Key" starring William Holden, Trevor Howard and Sophia Loren. Modelers interested in the wartime "Assurance" class of British rescue tugs and the dangerous work they performed must have this movie. From a researcher's point of view, the actual footage of HMT Restive in the role of "W-88" is outstanding and she really should be listed as one of the stars of the movie. There are enough detail shots of her underway and at the docks that you might want to contact Karl Kalb at Microglass (e-mail: microgee@aol.com) and order a copy of his fiberglass hull & plans for HMT Stormking of the Assurance class in 1/96 scale. Compared to the footage of HMT Restive and a check with Bill Hannan's book "Fifty Years Of Naval Tugs," Microglass has rendered the hull with extreme accuracy. "The Key" is a thinking man's war movie full of emotion, premonitions and bad omens for its seemingly doomed characters. Anyone who's ever met life-threatening danger face-to-face will find a sympathetic connection with the main characters. The only other seafaring movie that comes close is "The Cruel Sea" and "The Key" is every bit as good. My review of the movie will be appearing on amazon.com shortly. You can order the movie from Amazon.com, on VHS by typing "The Key" into the 'title' space and "William Holden" into the 'actor' space of their search engine. The movie is readily available and highly recommended. Victor Baca Editor & Publisher MODEL SHIP JOURNAL www.modelshipjournal.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Rod Dauteuil Subject: Odds and ends Admittedly, I'm a novice when it comes to camouflage schemes. I just find a scheme that looks good to me for the ship I'm modeling, and paint accordingly. So forgive me if I get some details here wrong. On the RN Flowers (and perhaps others) the Western Approaches scheme caught my eye (at least that's what I think it was named). This is the scheme using the light green and some other colors. My question is simple--How did the Admiralty pick that shade of green? It looks like a pastel almost. Are there landmasses nearby that color? Or is the sea a greenish color there? Also, regarding the USS Enterprise models on Ebay (there are 3 different ones), I think Trumpeter models are new moldings, but Lee usually re-pops using other's molds. I think their Enterprise is of Arii origins. Lastly, regarding my post a few weeks back about Bermuda, the island was great. Definitely will return there soon. There were no warships in port, but as we were landing at the airport, I glanced over the water to see a submarine running on the surface. The next day in the newspaper, there was a small article and a grainy picture, saying that a US sub was offshore performing crew transfers (whatever that means--the sub was by itself, unless there was another one submerged???). There were a couple of cruise ships visiting the island, but the special treat came when the Queen Elizabeth 2 pulled into Great Sound on Thursday. The next day I was fortunate to come within 100 yards of her when the glass bottom boat operator decided to take us in close. Later I watched her head southwest, probably toward the Bahamas, from my hotel deck. Rod. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: rickl@efortress.com Subject: USS Cole's namesake - Sgt Darrell Cole, USMCR Following the battle for Iwo Jima Admiral Nimitz used the famous words 'Uncommon valor was a common virtue' to describe the performance of our Marines and Sailors. Fifty-five years later, the men and women of the USS Cole are demonstrating every day - right now - that uncommon valor still is a common virtue. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "wblad" Subject: Spanish Cruiser Reina Mercedes was an unprotected cruiser of 1887 vintage. She was captured in 1898 and became a barracks ship at the Naval Academy until September, 1939, when she was sunk as a target off Norfolk. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "wblad" Subject: Cole's namesake The current USS Cole carries a model of the original USS Cole, (DD-155), a four-piper launched in 1919. I thought they were both named for the same individual, but apparently not. Who was the first USS Cole named for? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: Jim Fearn Subject: NEED BOOK I'm scratch building a 1:96 model of a Town Class cruiser the HMS NEWCASTLE. I've heard tell of an out of print book "Town Class Cruisers, Ensign No.5" written by Raven & Roberts circa 1975. I'll be danged if I can find one for sale anywhere. Does anyone out there in SMML land have a clue where I might purchase a copy? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: "Bruce" Subject: Newport News Photos Is there an interest in photographs of ships from Newport-News Shipbuilding, {i.e.} of USS ARKANSAS CGN 41 I have just one such photo, underway,at a 20 degree turn, I'll scan and upload for those who say plezze, also for older US Carrier Fans, USS KittyHawk CV~63 era '1967' leaving San Francisco Bay with DD escorts My last photo taken, before being resigned to new taskforce, Southeast-Asia with crew lining the outside rails along the flight-deck, I have three such photos,keep in mind theses are ship-Board photos for the crew and where made with gold lettering, as was my Job aboard this Carrier, in the smallest Dept. on Board, So maybe? I could share with other Like minded Carriers modelers, PS! No I don't have any more photographs,of any other Carriers or other ships of that era. Bruce Hi Bruce, I'm sure there will be lots of people who'd like to see these shots. In fact, if you like we can chuck em on the SMML website as well. Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: Keith T Bender Subject: IJN carrier reference Hi SMMLies, I need some reference to locating camouflage for Japanese carriers. The green is what I need, not the shade, have that but I need the diagram. Thank you, Keith -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: "James Kloek" Subject: Contest Question Last weekend I attended the contest and show held by the IPMS club in Syracuse, New York. It was a good show, with some very nice ship models entered. Particularly worthy of mention were five excellent models by Tom Altobello of Mississauga, Ontario. There were three ship categories: Oar and Sail, Submarines, and Powered Ships. When the judging was complete, the winner of the Powered Ships category was a nicely done Tamiya PBR, a model which has been on the upstate New York contest tour for at least two years. This is the second time I have seen it win a category. Afterwards an interesting discussion took place. One of the points made was that although the PBR was indeed a well done model, it really should not have been judged with ships, since the skills required to make it a winner are basically those of an armor modeler, not a ship modeler. Someone suggested it should be in with "softskin" military vehicles. On the otherhand some else said something to the effect of "If it floats, its a ship" so it was fine where it was. Has anyone had a similar experience with a PBR model? Does anyone have an opinion one way or the other how this kit should be judged? Jim Hi Jim, FWIW, I say it's a boat & should go in the ships category. Just because the scale may be 1/35, does not mean the armour modellers can have it all to themselves ;-). As for the skills needed to finish it "properly" what a load of tosh. IMNSHO, one of the biggest fallacies going around modelling circles is that skills are germane to one particular branch - hogwash. Although I'll freely admit that "current fads" will always favour the genre modeller - skill however is cross genre. I'd be willing to bet that an "expert" in one field of modelling will be an "expert" in another if they approach their subject in the same way - it maybe not quite up to scratch on the first attempt, but it'll be darn close. Of course this is NOT to say that you can't pick up new hints & tips from other genre modellers, which you can then apply to your area of preference. Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: "Ken P LeMaster" Subject: Re: 1/350 Beehive Enterprise I saw an earlier post on ebay for the kit that had a picture of the hull. The kit is motorized and has a division point like the Tamiya hull. I saw a sample Trumpeter Enterprise kit about 1 year ago and the box was a direct copy of the Tamiya box with Trumpeter logo instead of Tamiya, box was the same size, shape, etc If they also used the Otaki/Arii kit parts for the island, then this should be a good starting point for a model with the early configuration and the GMM brass will fit fine. Only the radar suite on the top will be missing. I have one of the kits on the way and when it gets in, I will compare the parts with my Tamiya and Arii kits to see just what was done. I do have the New Jersey kit that Trumpeter puts out and it is a direct copy of the Tamiya kit with motorizing parts. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: "J. London" Subject: Re: Bullion Cruiser The cruiser involved in shipping gold to Canada in the early part of the war was, if my memory serves me correctly, HMS Emerald, chosen for her speed. The operation was code named Fish. I do not recall, though, anything about her being torpedoed. Certainly throwing the gold overboard seems an unlikely action as there were surely less precious items that could be jettisoned to lighten a damaged ship and it was, after all, the sole purpose of the voyage. The gold did, in fact, arrive safely and was stored in the basement of the Sun Life building in Montreal. Michael London -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: Subject: Re: Ship's Bell >> Construction on my 1/350th WWII DD kit is proceeding smoothly, but I notice the kit has no ships bell. Upon looking at my other destroyer, cruiser and carrier models in this scale from various manufacturers, I notice that none of these kits have a bell, either (which I find odd considering I see they have included fighting lights, horns, etc.). What does everyone use for the bell, or is this generally left off? << Devin, I was stuck with this same problem. Found some plastic air horns (HO) for diesel trains (Sierra West, I think). Trimmed up they make great 1/350 ship bells. Paint it brass or silver and all set. Kevin -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24) From: Ray8017@aol.com Subject: ACW ironclad kits does anybody know a source of wood U.S Civil War ironclad kits...???? ray -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 25) From: Bradford Chaucer Subject: Re: New book out --PRE-DREADNOUGHT ALERT! >> Skimmed through a new book at Borders yesterday "War at Sea in the Age of Ironclads." Looks pretty good, but I didn't have the cash to buy it. << Hi, Is that the book by Richard Hill?? This is the link I found on B&N http://shop.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?userid=2NLSR2HDP3&mscssid=EPBS20RARPN28PARK5NTSBDK5GD52G9C&isbn=030435273X Regards, Bradford Chaucer Hi, Please note that the above url is too long & has wordwrapped around - copy both lines into your browser to view the page. Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 26) From: Ives100@aol.com Subject: Re: Nautilus Gato >> So, you have uncovered a Pandora's box of problems with this kit and even with my conversion. I have often thought about doing a resin insert to do the top of the hull and photoetch for the deck and limberholes, but such a conversion set would cost well over $100 as it would be easier to cast an entire new hull than pieces to go into the kit hull. Oh, well, maybe some day Tom will get his limberholes at least. I hope I have been of some help to you. James Corley Nautilus Models << Despite the caveats James lists above, you have to be crazy not to avail yourself of one of the 4 Nautilus conning towers & guns sets when you are building a WWII fleet submarine from the Lionfish kit. Having had to hack and rebuild the conning towers prior to Nautilus Models coming on the scene, let me tell you of the enormous time, frustration, and effort these resin conversion kits save you. ....and, yes, I would like a photoetch template for the limberholes.... Tom Dougherty -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 27) From: Robert Vancel Subject: ACW ships Anyone Else Notice This? There have been an interesting series of programs about recovering ships from the 'Recent Unpleasantness with the North'. If I am correct in this, and saw and heard correctly, the United States Navy aided in finding and recovering the USS Monitor, but didn't do anything in recovering the CSS Hunley. Is it possible that, due to the fact it was an 'enemy' warship, the US didn't consider the Hunley worthy of recovery? Or am I way off base here? Robert "Dr Al Roberts" Vancel/oWf Al Team # 78 Matching Night Vision Tiara sold separately... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 28) From: Robert Vancel Subject: NOTE FOUND IN RUSSIAN SUB SAYS 23 SAILORS INITIALLY SURVIVED KURSK BLAST Russia's navy chief says at least 23 sailors on board the Russian submarine Kursk remained alive after explosions killed the rest of the crew, according to a letter found by divers. The note found in the pocket of a seaman is the first sign that anyone survived the initial blasts that tore apart the submarine and sunk it in the Barents Sea. http://CNN.com/2000/WORLD/europe/10/26/russia.kursk.01/ Robert "Dr Al Roberts" Vancel/oWf Al Team # 78 Matching Night Vision Tiara sold separately... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 29) From: RhinoBones@aol.com Subject: Re: Bullion cruiser >> I have a question . . . Back in 1940-41 during the blitz on England the British Gov't supposely loaded 400 million dollars . . . torpoded . . . thrown over board . . . name? << Good question, however, I take this as an urban legend category question. Similar experiences are . . . During the Spanish Civil War a ship was lost carrying the gold of Madrid, a few years later Russian gold was lost during WW II, the Chou Di was sunk in the Sea of Japan carrying a fortune in gold and jewels, and our friends from Spain lost untold fortunes in the Philippines and the Caribbean. Last summer Last month I lost some pocket change on a beach in Belize. Go figure !! What the heck is wrong with ships carrying bullion? Some kind of curse? Point being, which UFO do you think took the gold? Regards, RhinoBones -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "WEM" Subject: 1/350 CF ADAMS Hi Guys Just in from Peter Hall who's assembling the resin/metal bits on his waterline ADAMS Class.. http://dialspace.dial.pipex.com/town/avenue/xdt22/350cfadams/adams.jpg with the following comments: >> Just to give you all a pic of the Adams with most of its parts in place. The fit is good and nothing has been lost in the casting process, even on the metal to resin side of things << The kit also builds as a full hull model.. All The Best Caroline Carter http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://www.smml.org.uk Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://www.tac.com.au/~sljenkins/apma.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume