Subject: SMML VOL 1047 Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 00:57:19 +1100 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Scharnhorst camouflage 2: Lost Instructions 3: WW2 DD interior colour 4: Ships Bells 5: Steve Wiper's Books 6: American Civil War Kits 7: Re: USMC Amtracs 8: Re: Book on Town Class cruisers, Ensign #5 9: French Dockyard Locomotives 10: Re: New book out --PRE-DREADNOUGHT ALERT! 11: Re: Newport News Photos 12: Re: U-571 Redux 13: Skytrex 14: Re: Contest Question 15: Ironclads 16: Re: Bullion cruiser 17: Haze Gray & Underway: USS Cole (DDG 67) Book of Condolences 18: Pearl Harbor movie web site 19: Wood Civil War Kits 20: Re: ACW ironclad kits 21: Re: ACW ships 22: PRESIDENTIAL UNIT CITATION FOR USS COLE??? 23: checking numbers 24: Re: Bullion cruiser 25: Re: need book 26: Ship's photo resource 27: Books I'd like to see from Steve Wiper -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Pletscher-Lenz-Schneider" Subject: Scharnhorst camouflage There are photos of TIRPITZ and SCHARNHORST with TIRPITZ painted in her 1942/43 dazzle pattern and SCHARNHORST with the white-ends scheme, which were taken in March 1943. I also saw photos of TIRPITZ with her 1943/44 splinter pattern operating with SCHARNHORST in her multi-color paint. But I do not know of any photo showing SCHARNHORST with the white-ends scheme and TIRPITZ with her 1943/44 pattern. This is why I guess that the multi-color scheme was applied after the white-ends scheme. There is a photo of SCHARNHORST in Stern, Kriegsmarine, page 73, which shows the white-ends scheme and is captioned to show her "landing troops at Spitsbergen" (sept. 1943). However the hills in the background are obviously not Spitsbergen, but a Norwegian fjord. So this photo is no proof that SCHARNHORST wore the white-ends scheme after March 1943. The white-ends scheme was "Schnellbootweiss" on bow and stern and a dark gray, comparable to RAL 7038, on the rest of the hull and upperworks. (See the Kriegsmarine set of Short & Snyder for the tones). The multi-color scheme consisted most probably of four different shades of white, gray and blue and was symmetrical on both sides. Falk Pletscher -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "David's Mail" Subject: Lost Instructions Does anyone have a copy of the instructions for the Airfix 1:72 scale 'E' Boat as I have misplaced mine. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Pleugers3@aol.com Subject: WW2 DD interior colour Was there a standard color for the interiors on WW 2 destroyers? Paul Leugers Building the USS Patterson DD392 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Subject: Ships Bells Hi Everyone, I hope that I can answer the question of ships bells in the part relating to British ships. The large brass ships bells have crowns on top that form loops by which the crown can be hung from brackets welded on the bulkheads. When the ship is alongside in harbour or at anchor, the bell is hung at the top of the gangway or accommodation ladder in a prominent place, usually next to where the quatermaster and officer of the day are standing. When the ship leaves harbour and gets underway the bell is taken down and stowed in a safe place inside the ship. I don't know what the routine is with other nationalities bells. Hope this is of help. All the best Peter Hall -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: TechnoInfidel@webtv.net (John Collins) Subject: Steve Wiper's Books Greetings all: Steve: You produce them, I'll buy them. In general, you seem to on the right track on subject matter and market -- US Navy, major combatants, heavily WWII. As a veteran graphic arts professional, I must say that halftone (photo) reproduction in your books is top drawer. You and your printer are doing an excellent job. John Collins Atlanta, GA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: Joel Labow Subject: American Civil War Kits Cottage Industry Models of Charlston, SC, USA has a very nice line of large-scale Civil War ordnance and ship kits in resin. Go to the Modelers Boatyard site (www. modelersboatyard.com> and follow the prompts to Cottage Industry Models. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: John Maze Subject: Re: USMC Amtracs From: john.baumann@talk21.com >> Response: UK Draughtsman Geoff Lacey has undertaken several plans of Buffalo's and USMC LVTs. More recently, the French "Steel-Masters" provided some excellent drawings by Hubert Cance on WWII and post-war amphibians. Obtain issue/s No.16 & 17: Modern Amphibians, LVTP5 series. No.20 & 21: LVT2s. No.30: Part I, US & GB use of LVT4. No.31: Part II & No.32: Part III. LVT4s (French, Post-war, Indo-China etc). << These drawings are all very nice, but they're of amtracs older than the one Mike is talking about. For the AAV-7 (formerly the LVTP-7), see "Modern American Armor" by Steven J. Zaloga for a small set of drawings of the -A1. For general "what's it look like in service" pics, see any of the many books covering USMC operations in Desert Storm. Try obtaining these through inter-library loan (if your library doesn't have them) to protect your wallet. If you wish to purchase, check out Naval Inst. Press and I can get you the snail for the Marine Corps Association's book service if you would like to get their catalog (this is where I got most of my best ones). Email me offlist if you want more info. There are also some books of recent vintage which cover amphibious ops, in general; these will have some useful pics. JohnM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "J. London" Subject: Re: Book on Town Class cruisers, Ensign #5 I sold a copy to White Ensign Models some time ago and it is remotely possible that they may still have it in stock. Worth a try. Michael London -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "chenyangzhang" Subject: French Dockyard Locomotives Hi Christian There is information available in French about the type of locomotives used in dockyards and which would have been French locomotives. The problem is it's very difficult to come by even in France and would entail a lot of searching (though you might get lucky). You could try the Musee de la Marine which is bound to have this sort of information or know where you could find it. There is also the French National Railway museum at Mulhouse which may be able to help. Chris Langtree -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "Richard K. Coleman" Subject: Re: New book out --PRE-DREADNOUGHT ALERT! Hi all: This is what I found at Barnes and Nobel. I don't know if the price is good in store, but it is the price advertised if ordered through their website. War at Sea in the Ironclad Age Authors: Richard Hill, John Keegan Price $23.96 Format: Hardcover, 224pp. ISBN: 030435273X Publisher: Cassell P L C Pub. Date: September 2000 Richard -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Newport News Photos While looking through some of my books on modern subjects, I noticed a caption at the bottom of the photo crediting it to Newport News. I'm still in the research phases of converting the Tamiya Enterprise to the 1970 era and I am in need of photos of the island up close.I found out that the National Archives now "sub contracts" all their photo copying services when I got the price sheets. In short, there is no cheap way to get photo anymore from the NA. Saying that, I contacted Newport News's public relations office via email. Apparently they don't hand out photos either because I got no reply. Guess I'll just have to chuck $50 or $60 bucks to the NA's "sub contractor." That's a pity, because the National Archives was one the few good deals left in this world. You could (at one time) get B&W 8x10s for $9.00 ea. The "sub contractor wants $13.00 and more for color. Add that up on 6 to eight photos and it gets pretty high. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ Order online with Visa & Master card (US only) "Yeah I want Cheesy Poofs" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: Watrtrck@aol.com Subject: Re: U-571 Redux As usual I am way behind reading my Email and see this years movies..... I finally got my hands a a rental copy of U-571 and I loves it. Some of my first thoughts after seeing it was converting an "S" boat like the one in the movie. I would doubt that your going to find an Sboat and a TypeIX to use as donors in the same scale. (Dosent Blue Water Navy or one of the other Resin companies make a Sboat?). I know there is TypeIX kits out there, isnt one of those "diving" modelkits/toys a TypeIX? I'm going to go harrass Hugh Letterly at Colpar.......... I think it's time to embrace the horror, get the scale drawings down to the copycenter for resizing, put on the asbestos underwear and get to scratchbuilding....... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "Chris Drage" Subject: Skytrex Hello All, For those SMMLies who want to have a peek at the latest Skytrex (www.Skytrex.com) offerings, I have posted four pix on the SMML website. The two pix of the Santissimo Trinidad (Spanish, 1st Rater at Trafalgar) are of a model I threw together one evening. No painting, no rigging or extra details. I have to comment on the rigging instructions which are simply superb in their detail. Similarly, the pictures of the 1:700 scale HMS Norfolk and the 1:600 scale Ton Class minesweeper are literally 'what-you-get'. Hope these help folks make up their own minds before diving in and purchasing. We have had one very positive comment re David Parkin's Flower Class resin parts. Did anyone else at the UK IPMS get the chance to evaluate these substitutes for the Revel kit ? Regards, Chris He tao rakau e taea te karo, tena he tao kupa kaore e taea te karo......(Te Reo Maori) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Contest Question James, The PBR is a small boat. So obviously it's a ship. Don't start determining category placement with modeling techniques or you'll open a can of worms you'll never be able to close. I would trust an armor modeler to judge a ship anymore than I would trust a ship modeler to judge armor. The two are no where near similar. What about LST's? They're designed more as floating tanks than ships by virtue of their function. Would that classify that as an armor subject? Or tanks with snorkels (constructed to ford rivers)? A ship or a tank? I think you see what I mean here when I say this could turn into a real mess. I use "armor" techniques on my ships all the time. Every ship I build has the classic wash/dry brushing technique almost every armor modeler around uses in competition. That doesn't make my Perry class frigate armor. Check out my frigate on the Warship site and you'll see what I mean. Many of the dry brushing techniques are very similar to those used on armor models. It was just posted yesterday. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ Order online with Visa & Master card (US only) "Yeah I want Cheesy Poofs" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: Sean Obrien Subject: Ironclads First of all, thanks for the responses on Gato colors. Second, I also thought the PBS Monitor show was excellent. I remember buying and building the Monitor and Merrimac (I know it's Virginia, that's the way they were labeled) back in the early 70's. The kits were boxed together and as I remember, the detail was good( of course I was only 11 or 12). They weren't in the same scale though because the ships in modelform were about the same length, maybe about 8-10 inches. Anyone remember these kits, or know if someone is still making them? One last thing...had a friend just get back from Charleston. He tried to see the Hunley and said there was a 2 year wait. Does that sound that right? He had to settle for the "replica" outdoors. Seems a shame. Sean -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: Craig R Bennett Subject: Re: Bullion cruiser Hi Guys Thanks for your replies on the gold cruisers story. After checking MJ Whitney Cruisers of the World War 2. The cruisers Effingham, Emerald, and Enterprise were found listed as transfering gold to Canada in late 1939 to early 1940. None were lost. I remember seeing a program on the gold recovery of the Edinburgh of Russian gold. I think it was in 1981 that they did. No I didn't think a UFO took the gold. What was wrong with listing a popular mechanic's article? Craig -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: JRKutina@webtv.net (John Kutina) Subject: Haze Gray & Underway: USS Cole (DDG 67) Book of Condolences http://www.hazegray.org/features/cole/condolences.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: Pwesty Subject: Pearl Harbor movie web site Hi all I just found out that official PH web site been brought on line but it will not open officially until Dec. Here is the link: http://studio.go.com/movies/pearlharbor/flash.html enjoy -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: "Mike Leonard" Subject: Wood Civil War Kits Ray8017@aol.com asked: >> does anybody know a source of wood U.S Civil War ironclad kits...???? << Bluejacket Shipcrafters sells the MONITOR and VIRGINIA in 1/16" = 1' scale. The web address is: www.bluejacketinc.com MWL -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: Dizzydismal@cs.com Subject: Re: ACW ironclad kits Bluejacket Ship crafters makes models of the Monitor and Virginia. I thought that I had seen a version of the city class river ironclads at a show but had not seen it listed anywhere else. Many of the ship model websites list these. Dennis Disbrow -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: Dizzydismal@cs.com Subject: Re: ACW ships Since sunken Navy ships remain Navy property, they can only care for their own sunken ships. The Hunley is not U.S. property. Dennis Disbrow -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: stillmo@mb.sympatico.ca Subject: PRESIDENTIAL UNIT CITATION FOR USS COLE??? Just wondering what the criteria is for Presidential Unit Citation for crew of USS Cole?? Would she qualify, or is this any different from the mining of USS TRIPOLI or PRINCETON during Gulf War? I am sure we will see some higher decorations for valour coming out of this unfolding story, the thread from the person onboard is awesome and gutwrenching, but still I can hardly wait till the full book--and it will--is published with firsthand accounts. Please, your thoughts on this. Ray D. Bean -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: "hugh1lottie2" Subject: checking numbers Rusty, Was that BB Oklahoma 31 and BB Nebraska 14? Hugh -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24) From: SteveWiper@aol.com Subject: Re: Bullion cruiser Sounds like the making of the next "Indiana Jones" movie, Sinking ships, GOLD!, during WWII, and all. Dont forget, got to have Nazi's, you know, with Adolph Hitler escaping to Antarctica, to continue the "Master Race". I can just see that funky mustache wearing tyrant ranting away one of his night time speeches to his new disciples, hundreds, upon hundreds of penguins, with little Hitler mustachios of their own. Ah well, back to beating the dog. Steve Wiper -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 25) From: "Richard Baker" Subject: Re: need book You might find searching for chickens teeth easier!!!. I did the usual while searching for Raven & Roberts British battle ships of WW2, internet, Amazon on joy at all, went to my local library and bingo one copy. mind you it's held together with sellotape from everybody ripping the plans out and photocopying them. there must be a publisher out there willing to re print these R&R books, which in my view are the best for detailed drawings. cheers Richard Baker http://:www.resolution.ic24.net -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 26) From: Schiefet@cs.com Subject: Ship's photo resource Greetings, I am forwarding this message from a retired Senior Chief acquaintance of mine. I have purchased a couple of items from Don, related to ships I was on. I have not purchased the CD's as of yet. Steve Singlar Pelham, NH >> STEVE, HERE IS THE INFO ON THE CD'S. THE NAVY HAS TWO TYPES OF SHIPS - SUBMARINES AND TARGETS. NEED TO SEE A PHOTO OF ONE - I MAY HAVE IN THOUSANDS OF PHOTOS THAT I HAVE PUT ON CD DISC THAT YOUR COMPUTER CAN READ, VIEW, COPY, E-MAIL ETC. ALL SCANNED AT THE BEST QUALITY SO MAST AND SHIP NUMBERS HAVE GOOD DETAIL. INCLUDING: SUBMARINES (2 CDS WITH 6,000 IMAGES) ALL PHOTOS FROM SS1 THROUGH INTO THE 700 SERIES WERE SCANNED BY ME - INTERNET FILL IN ON OTHERS OR GOOD VIEWS. TARGETS INCLUDE OVER 2,000 ON EACH AND INCLUDE: BATTLESHIPS-CRUISERS DESTROYERS AND DDGS, FF ETC. CARRIERS AND AIRCRAFT (2 DISC IF INTERESTED ALSO IN AIRCRAFT) OTHER - INCLUDES OVER 6,000 IMAGES OF AUXILIARIES, MERCHANTS, CIVILIAN AND MISCELLANEOUS PHOTOS OF PATCHES, INFO. INDIVIDUAL SCANS OF ANY PARTICULAR SHIP - NO CHARGE CD'S FOR PURCHASE - $25 (SUBS COUNT AS 1) (CARRIERS AND ACFT COUNT AS 1) DISC INCLUDE INSIGNIAS, BATTLEFLAGS, MISSILE LAUNCHES, ACCIDENTS, UNUSUAL VIEWS ETC. ALSO MULTIPLE VIEWS ARE COVERED ON MOST FROM AERIAL TO PORT AND STARBOARD. COLLECTION TOTALS OVER 8,000. (8X10 NAVY DEPARTMENT PHOTOS AND INDIVIDUAL HARD COPY PHOTOS ARE $5.) ALSO HAVE COUPLE BLUEPRINTS OF SUBS SUCH AS SS418 IF YOU WANT DETAIL. CAN SCAN THEM BY PIECES. DON SUBPRIDE@AOL.COM << -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 27) From: Schiefet@cs.com Subject: Books I'd like to see from Steve Wiper Steve, No one has done justice to the New Mexico Class ships, so I am looking forward to this one in particular. 1. New Mexico Class 2. Nevada Class 3. Pennsylvania Class 4. Brooklyn/St. Louis Classes 5. Baltimore/Oregon City Classes Looking forward to your latest books. Steve Singlar Pelham, NH -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://www.smml.org.uk Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://www.tac.com.au/~sljenkins/apma.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume