Subject: SMML VOL 1055 Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 23:11:30 +1100 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: John Lambert's draws (etchings?) 2: A book for Shane 3: Who is the baddest BB 4: Kaga Kit 5: Warm Fuzzies 6: ASROC and torpedo reloads 7: Mk 48 ADCAPS 8: RN 8 pdr pompom and quad 0.5 MG 9: Celebrity Models 10: What did you do in the war, Daddy? 11: Re: celebs 12: Re: celebs 13: USN Boot-topping and Hull Numbers 14: Re: Celebs 15: Celebs and The War 16: Plastic card Models 17: John Lambert Plans 18: USNI Press Book Overlap 19: Ships flags 20: Paint jobs 21: Re: Celebs 22: Australian Army Band Corps 23: submarines warships 24: RN colours and Counties 25: Warships on film 26: DD-1 27: Haunted Hornet??? 28: Fletcher and Gearing questions 29: RAM mounts on Spruance Class 30: Re: Celebs 31: Re: Celebs -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Chris Drage" Subject: John Lambert's draws (etchings?) Hi all, I think that John's proposal to reduce the size and collate his plans is a superb idea which I for one, will welcome. Go for it John! Regards Chris He tao rakau e taea te karo kupu kaore e taea te karo (Te reo Maori) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Phil M. Gollin" Subject: A book for Shane The three new books "To Sail no More" numbers 3, 4 and 5 have reached the shops here in the UK with lots of good (but also quite distressing photos of ships at the breakers yard. The reason for this e-mail really is that Shane should especially like volume 5 which shows almost only Australian Ships (from HMAS Australia in 1923, through to HMAS Perth in 1999 and is excellent. By the bye, I'd forgotten how good looking the Daring class destroyers were (I've never really liked them before) and equally, just how ugly the Oliver Hazard Perry Frigates (HMAS Sydney (IV)) are. Phil Hi Phil, Thanks for that - will look forward to eventually picking these books up when the aussie peso improves. As for the Darings, well they were the last of "the destroyers sleek" & look far better than the FFGs ;-). Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "chenyangzhang" Subject: Who is the baddest BB Hi Joel Actually its not as accurate as you think. The best discussion on battleships anywhere appears in the books written by D K Brown. (The Grand Fleet and From Nelson to Vanguard) The combined fleet stuff is more to do with 'you can prove anything you want with statistics' (Hi Jon) and relies on dubious research - sorry. Chris Langtree -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: James Corley Subject: Kaga Kit >> An open question to all.Is anybody aware if Nichimo produced a Kaga in their 1/500 range. I've got the Akagi, Hiryu, Shokakau & Zuikakau, but I've been unable to find any others. My Akagi does not look complete without the big 'K' along side her. << According to the Burns Guide, Nichimo made a kit of the IJN Carrier "Kaya" in 1/500. I would suppose this corresponds with the Kaga, as other IJN ship names have had transliteration problems over the years. Kit number 5021. No Soryu though. I have, however, never seen this kit. Not even on Ebay for several hundred dollars. James -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: TechnoInfidel@webtv.net (John Collins) Subject: Warm Fuzzies Greetings Listmates: I just wanted to share a customer service story with you. About a month ago, I learned that Samek's Dunkerque kit had a fotoetch fret. As I am working on WSW's Strasbourg and wanted to replace the catapult with fotoetch, I e-mailed Michal Samek and asked how I could obtain a copy of the Dunkerque's fret. A few day's later, he e-mailed in return, saying he would send me the fret for 10 DEM sent via registered mail. All he needed was my address. I responded with the address, told him that the only address I had for him was from one of his kits and would he please verify his address. I also admitted that I was uncertain what currancy a DEM was (I suspect that it is Dollars European Market -- would anyone from the European community care to comment?). Well, two weeks passed without a return e-mail. No worries, though, Michal's a businessman -- you know, time is money, etc. Lo and behold, I received a letter from him containing the fotoetch fret. I hadn't sent money or anything. I was stunned and amazed. I had to scramble get a payment to him. Unfortunately, the banking community in this country (USA) looked at me with blank Barbie doll eyes when I requested an international payment coupon for 10 DEM (well, now I don't feel so bad about not knowing myself). No can do. Only thing available was an international cashier check which would cost $15, approximately 150% greater than check required. Ultimately I paid with a Western Union international money order for $10 (I hope it was enough) which cost a dollar. Michal didn't have to do a thing for me, yet he sent the item requested without payment, trusting me to do the proper thing. For that I am grateful and still amazed. Thank you very much. Now, off to buy some Samek kits. Be well, John Collins -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: LUCASNER@aol.com Subject: ASROC and torpedo reloads Hey everyone, I'm building a naval database and have a few (well, thousands) questions... I'm interested in the number of ASROC and torpedo reloads carried in destroyers and frigates. Specifically all destroyer and frigate classes starting with the FRAM ships and up to the Burkes. I've read that the FRAMs had an ASROC magazine in the DASH hanger, but can't find how many reloads were in it. And except for the OHPs, I can't find ANY information concerning how many ASW torp reloads any of the ships carried. Also, did any of the ships have 'common' torp magazines? Meaning, do the ASW helos and the torp tubes draw reloads from the same magazines? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Dave Lueck -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: LUCASNER@aol.com Subject: Mk 48 ADCAPS I read somewhere that US subs have carried a mix of Mk48 Mod 4 and ADCAPs because of a shortage of ADCAPs. Is this true? Also, I read that the boomers never carried ADCAPs; that the better torps were reserved for the attack boats, any truth to this? Thanks all, Dave Lueck -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "Wouter Foeth" Subject: RN 8 pdr pompom and quad 0.5 MG I'm looking for either pictures or, better, drawings of the 2pdr 8 barrelled pompom, quad 0.5 Machine Guns, and HACS directors. Also, does anyone have pictures or drawings of the ammo lockers for these guns as well? Links or book refences are also welcome. EJ Foeth -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "Malcolm N. Waite" Subject: Celebrity Models Hi Trying not to sound like that judge back in the 60's who enquired "who are the Beatles?" I have to ask "who is Paul Harvey?" Regards Malcolm N. Waite Liverpool UK -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: TechnoInfidel@webtv.net (John Collins) Subject: What did you do in the war, Daddy? Greetings yet again. I enjoyed the thread about celebrities in the war. But, personally, I would be more interested in those of our group who served or had relatives who served in the various navies (or other military services) of WWII. My great uncle, Alois Kammerer, was in the Kriegsmarine during the war and served aboard KMS Leipzig and was a plank owner on the KMS Tirpitz. He survived the sinking, only to be sent into the Konigsberg pocket. He avoided capture by the Russians, but was captured by British MTBs and interned in Denmark. All in all, he was one lucky sailor. My grandfather, Hans Wimmer, was in a Luftwaffe flak artillery unit. He served in Italy, France, Germany, and in the East. He was captured by the Russians at the end of the war in Czechoslovakia. He was told the war was over for him and he could walk home. He did. Ten kilometers from home he was captured by the Americans and interned in a camp within site of his home town. He was not allowed to contact his family. He also said that there was not a single blade of grass left in his POW camp. They had all been eaten. My father was in the 3rd Armored Division, assigned to a Medical Battalion, but he was in the CID or some other nefarious work. Hush-hush, and all that. I would be interested in the stories other list members have to tell. Be well, John Collins Atlanta, GA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: Richa5011@aol.com Subject: Re: celebs >> And another - his name escapes me - played a nasty bad guy usually. He is in Tora, Tora, Tora playing an officer who says "There, do you believe it now, Captain." << I believe that was Neville Brand (played in a lot of Westerns), but I don't know about his military service. We can also add: Denholm Elliot CBE - A fine actor, perhaps most recognizable to Americans as the Museum curator in the three "Indiana Jones" films - Who on the night of 23/24 Sept 1942, while flying as a member of of the crew of Hallifax II (DT508) with 76sqn, was hit by flak and ditched in the North Sea. Two of the seven members of the crew were killed, the other five, including Elliot were captured and spend the rest of the war as a POW. (This is noted in Chorley's RAF Bomber Command Losses Vol3) Sir Alec Guiness - Yes, Obi Wan Kanobi himself (which he hated to be called) a truly outstanding actor with a history of both comedic and dramatic brilliance - served in the RNVR during the war. I recall seeing an interview with him in which he refers to commanding a landing ship (LSM? LST?). No doubt there are many others.... Nat Richards -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: JRuotsala@aol.com Subject: Re: celebs For Celebs, the nasty guy who said "See Captain" was Neville Brand. Cheers, Jim Ruotsala -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Joel Labow Subject: USN Boot-topping and Hull Numbers I recently was in Norfolk and had occasion to go to the NOB.....all the ships appeared to have the conventional black boot-topping, however I was surprised to see that a number of newer ships (most notably several 'high number' Arleigh Burkes) had the old style black and white hull numbers rather than 'lo-viz.' Does anyone know if the USN is changing again? One possible explanation is the old style painting is part of the construction contract and that 'lo-viz' is applied after the USN takes delivery. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: Roland Mar Subject: Re: Celebs This kind of involves ships, albeit those with the word "star" in front of them. Celebrities involved in WW II. The Chief Engineer on the Starship Enterprise, Montgomery Scott, is played by James Doohan. You might note that one does not see his left hand in any shots. Mr. Doohan was a subaltern in the Brit Army and landed at Normandy; there suffering a wound that cost him a finger. Roland Mar "Beam me up, Scotty! The election is at hand, and there is no intelligent life here." -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "Victor M. Baca" Subject: Celebs and The War Ref Jeff Herne's thread on celebrities and movie stars who became famous after WWII. The U.S. Naval Institute Press publishes two books I'm aware of that cover U.S. Naval personnel who either were already famous or who became prominent after the war. They also announced a book, I believe, on U.S. Marines who came into prominence before, during and after the war. I do recall seeing film footage of Clark Gable swaggering and strutting his stuff as he boarded a B-17 bomber preparing for a WWII bombing mission. The footage showing him after the run showed a completely different visage. That of a man who has just experienced something horrible, visibly drained and shakened, wanting to vomit. His swagger became a stagger and it's one piece of high school history film that remains in mind today. Lee Marvin comes to mind also as a real life Marine and, of course there were others as well. I wonder how many "real" Allied soldiers and sailors performed service in the war as other than "poster boys" who also later became famous... And here's another thought for a thread--can you name any famous people who were or are into scale ship modeling? Victor Baca Model Ship Journal -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "Victor M. Baca" Subject: Plastic card Models Ken Goldman's reply regrading the durability of paper models made good points. But the primary concern in paper conservation is a balanced Ph paper rather than an "acid free' paper. One could also go with plastic coated papers for durability as any type of paper, even "acid free'stock will absorb moisture. This is a major concern in the Pacific Northwest where humidity is high. The best protection for paper models built in high humidity envoronments or those where humidity is variable is to store them in a temperature and humidity controlled room. This is achievable, but I think the styrene alternative is more attractive. Here's a thought for modelers wishing to transfer card stock models to some other paper medium. Ilford or Kodak RC (Resin Coated) paper stock would be good stable paper choices. Have the drawing photographically transferred to the photo paper and build the model from that. Keep in mind that the coating covers only the paper's surface. Cut edges will be exposed, but the glue should make a proper seal. Photo paper is offered in gloss, matte and textured surfaces in both color and black & white. (Of course, there are copyright considerations to acknowledge in copying plans, but that thread has already been covered ad nauseum in this forum.) There are a lot of factors affecting any paper's ability to withstand aging. I spend a fair amount of time in a museum helping to conserve old ship's plans and documents and have seen first-hand much of our maritime history on paper literally lost to the dust of time. Victor Baca Model Ship Journal Photomarine Archives -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: "Victor M. Baca" Subject: John Lambert Plans Yes, Yes, Yes! Publish them all...what a great idea to get important and valuable plans into modeler's eager hands. I for one would be more than happy to purchase these portfolios and pore over the details. You'd be doing us all a service, John and hopefully beefing up your retirement fund as well. Regards, Victor Baca -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: "Victor M. Baca" Subject: USNI Press Book Overlap The U.S. Naval Institute does overlap somewhat in their coverage of ships in Combat Fleets Of The World and Ships & Aircraft Of The U.S. Fleet, but that tends to be within each title as the years go by. I have had many of my naval photographs published in Combat Fleets and they repeat over the years BUT only if nothing new comes across Dave Baker's desk in the interim. I'd say, if you are really into seeing how our fleets evolve, buy these books as soon as they are announced. If you're not a member of the USNI-Join And Get A 20% Discount. They also tend to offer pre-publication member's discounts on these books as well. Each editor of these volumes has their sources for photos, so there doesn't seem to be a big overlap in photo coverage. We rely on these titles to keep up to date in our office and use them almost daily. The CD/ROM version of Combat Fleets is also highly recommended for modelers using the computer for reference work or those involved in naval analysis, writing as professionals or freelancers. These books rely on up-to-date contributions from ship enthusiasts and professionals handy with a camera. The more photos you can contribute, the better the books will be. You'll find Dave Baker particularly easy to approach, knowledgable and excellent in communicating his needs for Combat Fleets. It's also nice to be involved in research and see your by-line within a highly respected book. I may be opening up a can of worms here, but I firmly believe that Combat Fleets Of The World long ago passed up Jane's Fighting Ships as an authorative reference and it is reasonably priced in comparison. I only wish they'd publish Combat Fleets on higher quality paper. Victor Baca Model Ship Journal Photomarine Archives -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: SantMin@aol.com Subject: Ships flags S.O.S. I need help from someone with a knowledge of ship's flags. I have a very good photo of USS MAINE that I am using to help with details on a model I am building. She is flying a flag I cannot identify. Here is all the info that may be relevant: 1. Year is 1897 2. She is quayside, not under power. 3. It is broad daylight, from the shadows I would say close to noon. 4. She is flying a very large American flag from the peak of the main gaff, a long commission pennant from the main truck, and a jack at the jackstaff in the bow. The flag in question looks like a solid color, dark in color but sometimes that can fool you on an old b/w photo. It looks triangular like a broad pennant but then again, that may be the way it's flying in the breeze. It is flying from the port fore yardarm. Can anyone help? Thanks, Bob Santos -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: "Edward Brown" Subject: Paint jobs Help please. A couple of stupid questions relating to RN practices: - Brand new ships - was there an undercoat and if so what colour? Refitting ships - would they be stripped back to metal and treated as new or new scheme simply painted over old? Edward Brown -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: pugs99@att.net Subject: Re: Celebs Hi All, Kevin Wenker wrote: >> And another - his name escapes me - played a nasty bad guy usually. He is in Tora, Tora, Tora playing an officer who says "There, do you believe it now, Captain." << The actor's name above is Neville Brand. Regards, John -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: "Bruce" Subject: Australian Army Band Corps Shane as a Yank this may surprise you here's a great link for all the Australian's to enjoy, one of my duty stations was Marine Barracks at 8th& I streets, to photograph the Marine Band for their yearbooks~ 62" \63" this website is Via, US Marine Band, Washington D.C. you'll need realplayer to hear the music provide at the site, http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/8298/ regards Bruce -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: "Bruce" Subject: submarines warships Shane, this might be the ticket for newer ship modelers could you post this? it just might, have some photos, and other Information {have not reviewed this site,,} regarding the RN http://www.navydays.com/ regards Bruce -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24) From: "M & R Brown" Subject: RN colours and Counties Les, The hull/weatherwork colours for RN ships varied from BS 381C 697 "Light Admiralty Grey" (LAG) from 1960 to about 1969/770 (depending on when a ship was refitted). Since then they have been painted BS381C 676 Light Weatherwork Grey. LAG is actually a definite blue grey not a grey. The decks until about 1978 were BS 4800 colour 14C39. This shade of green does not have a name. I know that Leighs, who were the sole RN deck paint supplier, did not make that green from 1978. Since then, the decks would have been BS381C Number 632 Dark Admiralty Grey. Flight decks were BS381C Number 632 Dark Admiralty Grey from1960. Re the tops of turrets, I only have black & white photos of Antrim in 1973 like this. My guess would have been grey not green for anti slip purposes as the RAN River Class carried this colour scheme. HMAS Torrens still had this scheme as late as 1998. Any colour photos I have of the original gun Counties shows the turret tops the same colour as the sides! As for matching the colours with Humbrol. Chris Rogers posted a formula to the green some weeks ago and has a formula for Light Weatherworks Grey. If you are lucky he may post it! Dark Admiralty Grey is actually one of the few colours that Humbrol have got that matches a real colour except they make it gloss instead of matt. It is #5. Can't help you with a match for LAG. I did get a formula from Humbrol to match this colour but it is nothing like the real thing!!! Have fun. Michael Brown Task Force 72 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 25) From: "M & R Brown" Subject: Warships on film For anyone interested in old RN vessels appearing on film, try looking at "You know what sailors are". It was made in 1953 and starring HMS Tyrian, a Type 16 frigate and someone called Donald Sinden. Unlike a lot of other British films of this era it is in colour. For those in Oz, it is on the ABC at 12:30 Thursday night. Michael Brown -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 26) From: "Ken Goldman" Subject: DD-1 Have no fear, RhinoBones. The resin model in question has a two-piece hull separated at the waterline. No sawing is needed to make it as a waterline model. The problem is the upper hull is essentially straight, while the lower hull curves off to one side. I haven't yet tried to straighten the curved piece, but since I found a good photo of the ship at anchor, I'm leaning in that direction with the addition of some GMM sailors. Ken Goldman THE WALRUS AND THE CARPENTER unique wood sculpture and fine scale models www.walruscarpenter.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 27) From: MDDoremus@aol.com Subject: Haunted Hornet??? Folks, I didn't catch the whole thing but one of the shows on the History Channel last week was talking about a ghost aboard the Hornet. Seems that some W.W.II or soon after the war Admiral has taken up residence aboard her and is seen from time to time by visitors and docents? What's the real scoop? Mark Doremus Eden Prairie, MN -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 28) From: Robert and Rose Brown Subject: Fletcher and Gearing questions Hi all: 1) The Skywave Fletcher kit has a molded in breakwater around the forward 5" mount. I haven't seen this in any photos, is the kit just incorrect? Neither the Tamiya nor Matchbox versions have it. 2) I have two photos of USS Gearing in Measure 22, one showing her with the aft set of tubes and the other showing her with the tubes removed but nothing in their place. Does anyone know if she shipped the quad 40mm mount in that position? Many thanks Rob -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 29) From: LUCASNER@aol.com Subject: RAM mounts on Spruance Class I've been doing some detective work and... Jane's says that at least 12 of the remaining Spruances are being fitted with Mk 21 RAM launchers. I've found photographic evidence of 6 having the mount (Radford, David Ray, Oldendorf, John Young, Briscoe, and Nicholson). Anyone know which other hulls are going to get (have got) the RAM launchers so far? Thanks everyone, Dave Lueck -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 30) From: Mike Settle Subject: Re: Celebs Jack Palance was a fighter pilot in WWII, but I can't remember if it was USAAC or USN. He was shot down and received some serious burns as a result. Mike Settle I am not agent #1908 of the non-existent Lumber Cartel (tinlc)tm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 31) From: MGross1352@aol.com Subject: Re: Celebs Yoi are referring to Nevelle Brand. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://www.smml.org.uk Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://www.tac.com.au/~sljenkins/apma.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume