Subject: SMML VOL 1061 Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 22:22:07 +1100 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: HMS Victorious 2: What did You do in the War Daddy 3: Re: Visit very far south, ver far! 4: Re: USN WWII Enlisted Jackets 5: Re: NY Hobby Shops 6: The Wall - Veteran's Day Rememberence 7: Norden Bombsight 8: NY Hobby Shops 9: Bonham Carter & HMS Edinburgh 10: Cole/Blue Marlin - time to share 11: What did you do in the war, Daddy? 12: Men of Valor 13: Samek´s 1/700th Heisternest and Saar 14: 378' USCG Cutters 15: Victor M. Baca What Did You Do In The War Daddy 16: RAN Colours 17: AS2700 colours & BS colours 18: 1/350 Trumpeter Beehive Enterprise 19: Re: Japanese Aircraft Carrier Air Wings 20: Battle of the Philippine Seas 21: Re: AOTS HMS Victorious 22: Re: Veteran's Day and Familiny in service 23: First ship 24: First aircraft carrier 25: Gneisenau during and just after the "Channel Dash" 26: RN site 27: Re: WW1 110' subchasers 28: Re "What did you do in the War, Daddy" 29: HMS Edinburgh 30: Steve Wiper's Visit very far south 31: Remembrance Day 32: Re: Cole photos, an obsevation 33: Re: Celebs 34: Photoetch help (please)? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Infomation 1: Washington DC Area SMMLcon 2000! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Ship kits for sale -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "John Rule" Subject: HMS Victorious >> I have a question on the Anatomy of the Ship Volume on the HMS Victorious - does it cover the Victorious after she was completely rebuilt as an angled-deck carrier? << It covers her whole career (or should be carrier). John -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "John Rule" Subject: What did You do in the War Daddy My father served in the Royal Artillery throughout WWII in Malta and Italy manning 40mm bofors AA guns. They never to my knowledge hit anything but probably gave some Italian and German aircrew loose bowels. He did have the dubious distinction of being bombed by the US airforce in Italy. The Germans on the other side of the river who were supposed to be bombed probably thought it peculiar. It just shows that when you tell the pilots to bomb the river bank, it helps to remember that every river has two banks. My great uncle Percy was in the Royal Navy in both world wars. In WWI he served aboard HMS Ajax, the battleship that is. I believe he served on HMS Codrington just before WWII. He died of natural causes while serving on the LSI (M) Princess Beatrix in the Med. in 1943. My maternal grandfather served in the Highland Light Infantry in France from 1914 to 1918, and my paternal grandfather did the same but in the Royal Army Medical Corps. Further back I am distantly related to some admirals of the RN, the most notable of whom are Edward and Israel Pellew, the former of whom was the most famous frigate Captain of the late 18th century and the latter, his brother, received the surrender of Admiral Villeneuve on board his ship Conqueror at the Battle of Trafalgar. Unfortunately I was descended from the poorer branch of the family tree. John -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Ian Wood & Ellen Hume & Adara Wood Subject: Re: Visit very far south, ver far! Hi Steve, welcome down under. You will hopefully get many invites and I trust this will help as well (no Moa Hunts). I live in Auckland (9 hours drive /one hour flying north of Wellington, and NZ's main city of 1 million - though others will contest this) and if you come up to this town and have the time, I can show you some sights, or give you an itinerary. There are three hobby shops on the fringe of the CBD, several a bit further out; plus a factory-shop producing 15mm WWII armies = about 20 minutes drive. Any hotel concierge can draw a route map to (and there are explorer buses): Kelly Tarlton Underwater world (a favourite with many); The War Memorial Museum (has some great displays (not up to the Smithsonian but then, hey we aren't America )), Sky Tower gives some good views of the city and allows you to map out some travels. There are several volcanoes you can drive up (all dead) which give views and there are vinyards, waterfalls, beaches and bush walks as well (though up to an hours drive away). I can also draw you an intinerary for travels between Wellington and Auckland (but so should anyone in Wellington - award wining Vinyards, Caves, Maaori displays and mud pools, volcanoes (currently dormant), lakes, fishing, surfing, bungy jumping, tantem parachuting...depends on the amount of time available for side trips. cheers Ian A Wood -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Ken P LeMaster" Subject: Re: USN WWII Enlisted Jackets I have a short Pea coat from my father's navy service in WWII, it is navy blue and appears to be made of wool. I also have a gray wool V blanket, dated 1944. He served in the South Pacific, made rank of Carpenter's Mate 2nd, and served on a combo av gas and ammunition ship, don't know the name. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: GKingzett@aol.com Subject: Re: NY Hobby Shops The shop on York and 82nd in Manhattan is Jan's Hobbies. I think the shop on 45th in Manhattan is The Red Caboose. On Long Island, Willis Hobbies is good overall. If I remember correctly, the Naval Base is located on Long Island, may even be a list member, Shaya Novak. In New Jersey Avenel Hobbies is good, Research in Scale in Paterson is excellent, as is my favorite, Ridgefield Hobbies in Ridgefield. Call phone information to get hours. There may be too many to visit, rather than too few. Gary -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Robert J. Bartolacci" Subject: The Wall - Veteran's Day Rememberence THE WALL If you've ever seen the painting "Reflections" of the Vietnam Wall in Washington, you've seen the man standing there with his hand on the wall, mourning his dead father or brother who was killed. What he doesn't see is the reflection from the other side showing that relative with HIS hand on the wall, touching the hand of his survivor. That painting inspired this story. FROM THE OTHER SIDE By Patrick Camunes "There are so many things that are written about the Wall but never anything of being on the other side. I was inspired by the picture Reflections that I use as wallpaper on my PC and a recent story, Autumn Wall." At first there was no place for us to go until someone put up that Black Granite Wall. Now, everyday and night, my Brothers and my Sisters wait to see the many people from places afar file in front of this Wall. Many stopping briefly and many for hours and some that come on a regular basis. It was hard at first, not that it's gotten any easier, but it seems that many of the attitudes towards that war that we were involved in have changed. I can only pray that the ones on the other side have learned something and more Walls as this one needn't be built. Several members of my unit and many that I did not recognize have called me to the Wall by touching my name that is engraved upon it. The tears aren't necessary but are hard even for me to hold back. Don't feel guilty for not being with me, my Brothers. This was my destiny as it is yours, to be on that side of the Wall. Touch the Wall, my Brothers, so that we can share in the memories that we had. I have learned to put the bad memories aside and remember only the pleasant times that we had together. Tell our other Brothers out there to come and visit me, not to say GoodBye but to say Hello and be together again, even for a short time and to ease that pain of loss that we all share. Today, an irresistible and loving call comes from the Wall. As I approach I can see an elderly lady and as I get closer I recognize her.......It's Momma! As much as I have looked forward to this day, I have also regretted it because I didn't know what reaction I would have. Next to her, I suddenly see my wife and immediately think how hard it must of been for her to come to this place and my mind floods with the pleasant memories of 30 years past. There's a young man in a military uniform standing with his arm around her......My God!......It's...it has to be my son. Look at him trying to be the man without a tear in his eye. I yearn to tell him how proud I am, seeing him standing tall, straight and proud in his uniform. Momma comes closer and touches the Wall and I feel the soft and gentle touch I had not felt in so many years. Dad has crossed to this side of the Wall and through our touch, I try to convey to her that Dad is doing fine and is no longer suffering or feeling pain. I see my wife's courage building as she sees Momma touch the Wall and she approaches and lays her hand on my waiting hand. All the emotions, feelings and memories of three decades past flash between our touch and I tell her that it's all right. Carry on with your life and don't worry about me......I can see as I look into her eyes that she hears and understands me and a big burden has been lifted from her. I watch as they lay flowers and other memories of my past. My lucky charm that was taken from me and sent to her by my CO, a tattered and worn teddy bear that I can barely remember having as I grew up as a child and several medals that I had earned and were presented to my wife. One of them is the Combat Infantry Badge that I am very proud of and I notice that my son is also wearing this medal. I had earned mine in the jungles of Vietnam and he had probably earned his in the deserts of Iraq. I can tell that they are preparing to leave and I try to take a mental picture of them together, because I don't know when I will see them again. I wouldn't blame them if they were not to return and can only thank them that I was not forgotten.\ My wife and Momma near the Wall for one final touch and so many years of indecision, fear and sorrow are let go. As they turn to leave I feel my tears that had not flowed for so many years, form as if dew drops on the other side of the Wall. They slowly move away with only a glance over their shoulder. My son suddenly stops and slowly returns. He stands straight and proud in front of me and snaps a salute. Something makes him move to the Wall and he puts his hand upon the Wall and touches my tears that had formed on the face of the Wall and I can tell that he senses my presence there and the pride and the love that I have for him. He falls to his knees and the tears flow from his eyes and I try my best to reassure him that it's all right and the tears do not make him any less of a man. As he moves back wiping the tears from his eyes, he silently mouths, God Bless you, Dad...... God Bless, YOU, Son...... We WILL meet someday but in the meanwhile, go on your way...... There is no hurry.......There is no hurry at all. As I see them walk off in the distance, I yell out to THEM and EVERYONE there today, as loud as I can,......... THANKS FOR REMEMBERING and as others on this side of the Wall join in, I notice that the US Flag that so proudly flies in front of us everyday, is flapping and standing proudly straight out in the wind today. THANK YOU ALL FOR REMEMBERING......... Author: ~~Patrick Camunes~~ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "wblad" Subject: Norden Bombsight When the US Army captured the German bombsight factory in 1945, engineers were called in to see if we could learn something from the Luftwaffe. What we learned was that the Germans has stolen the plans from the Norden factory in 1938. They produced their own version of the Norden bombsight and used it throughout the war. When we were supplying aircraft to Britain, before Pearl Harbor, we refused to send them planes with the Norden for fear it would fall into German hands if the plane was shot down. Meanwhile, the Germans were Blitzing London using their Norden bombsights. What does this have to do with ships? The Norden was originally developed for the US Navy, who didn't want it and suggested the Army try it out. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "William Oreto" Subject: NY Hobby Shops Manhattan Jan's - York and 82nd street. 212-861-5075. Great shop, good selection of mold injected ship kits (no resin kits that I saw). Abundance of supplies. Best all around hobby shop left in the city. Wee bit pricey. Red Caboose - 45th Street between 5th and 6th Aves. 212-575-0155. Not much of a model ship selection (one or two shelves). Experts in model rail roading. Ship selection ranges from latest releases to rare finds (who knows how they get there). Decent selection of Testor/Tamiya paints and other supplies. Ace Hobby 35 W31st 212-268-4151. Owners name Lou, nice guy. Expert in Aircraft and Armor. Strictly cash and carry. Hardly any ship selection. Plus is, he can order anything you want (mold injected or resin) and the prices are extremely reasonable. Picked up a Tamiya 1/350 U.S.S. New Jersey $41.50. There are a couple of others mainly dealing in radio control, nothing special, not worth your time if you are strictly a ship builder. Those are the big three that I know of in Manhattan. High rents and mail order have been closing many a shop. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "Mike Leonard" Subject: Bonham Carter & HMS Edinburgh Thanks for the info. I searched the web for links to HMS Edinburgh and found an especially outstanding site at www.world-war.co.uk that I highly recommended taking a look at. Since I own the man's hat, I'll have to get a model of his flagship to go with it. I see that WEW has a great 1/700 kit available. Mike -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "Ken Goldman" Subject: Cole/Blue Marlin - time to share A friend just sent me an excellent series of ten photographs showing USS Cole being taken aboard Blue Marlin. If anyone is serious about building this as a diorama, contact me off list and you can have your very own set in a 489KB Zip file. Ken Goldman THE WALRUS AND THE CARPENTER unique wood sculpture and fine scale models www.walruscarpenter.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "JAmes McCormick" Subject: What did you do in the war, Daddy? Okay, I'll add my father's accounts. My father got in just under the wire, he went through his boot camp and MP training, was on a train bound for the west coast on August 8th, and we all know what happened next. He wound up instead in Germany, as an MP, at a little place called Nuremberg. When I asked him what he thought about the "evil Nazis", he explained to me that yes, some of them were truly evil, and loathsome ndividuals (his words were a tad different), but in others, they were just plain, ordinary men, who had been misguided, and had to pay the price for their and other's actions. He passed on back in 86, but this day, as always, I will remember him. I carry his dogtag, right next to mine, on a short timer's chain(his). My dad's brother, did serve in the Pacific, in a Seebee detachment as a steveadore. One of his favorite tales was going into a drydock, under the Battleship Idaho. It was quite the fun to get the new guys down there, and then, once he's under the ship, to look at some of the shoring blocks, and say "Oh SH&*! They used Bamboo!!", and then see how fast the newbies would hustle out. His unit has been meeting every year for close to twenty years, but I think he said there are only 4 or 5 left. Anyway, if your country observes it, or even if it doesn't, take some time to think about the sacrifices that others have made and given to protect us all. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "JAmes McCormick" Subject: Men of Valor I read in a review that the pricipal character goes to Navy dive school in BAYONNE, NJ. I was stationed there once, Sure as HELL was no dive school there then, my question is: was there ever, and where was it? Jeez Louise, you'd have to be one mean, tough, ornery sunuvagun to dive into either Newark bay, or the Hudson river!! Anyone have any comments? Anyone from around BAYONNE, where the local girls are aptly named BAYONETTES? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: thorstenwahl@t-online.de (Wahl, Thorsten L.) Subject: Samek´s 1/700th Heisternest and Saar Hi folks, would anyone have pics or scans of these ship that you could help me out with ? Think that those are nice lil´ kits, but can´t seem to find ANY online references (my own library on WWII subjects is pretty sparse, as I´m more into modern ships). On another note, what´s the judgement on Hasegawa´s 1/700th U-boats (type VIIc / IXc)? Usable or should I get resin ones? If so, who makes them? Thanks for listening Thors `At least we don´t name our ships for our mothers-in-law.´ USS Reuben James to HMS Battleaxe -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: Duane Fowler Subject: 378' USCG Cutters Hello Charlie, Jarvis?!? Any relation? Jag puts out two excelent models of the 378' cutters in both pre and post FRAM configurations. However they are in 1/700 scale. BaD Ship Models makes a 1/96 scale kit with a fiberglass hull. As you would imagine, it's quite complex and expensive. No one that I am aware of makes a 1/350 scale model of this class at this time. Best regards, Duane Fowler -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: Mark McKellar Subject: Victor M. Baca What Did You Do In The War Daddy Victor, Thank you for this moving post.....I don;t often forward items to friends and family but I did forward your post to several close friends. Mark PS My Dad fought at the Chosin Revevoir in Korea 50 years ago this month. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "Cooper, Mike" Subject: RAN Colours Dear SMMLies I promised you a transcript of the order on RAN colours that the Aussie War Memorial sent me. I'll give some notes on the text after the text itself, but please note that this is just a list of colours. It dates from 1943, and comes from some printed list of orders. I'm afraid that I don't have a proper citation, as none accompanied the text. If you'd like a facsimile, then I can fax you one. I think I might also send Dan a copy of this for PSM. Please accept my advance apologies for typos! 400 EXTERNAL AND CAMOUFLAGE PAINTING - STANDARDISATION OF COLOUR SHADES, AND INTRODUCTION OF A1 AND A2 CLASS QUALITIES PAINT The following colours for camouflage paints have been approved for use in the Royal Australian Navy to supplement the standard Service paints for camouflage purposes. Supplies for camouflage purposes will in future be restricted to these colours, and demands for requirements should therefore be prepared accordingly: - Shade G5 . . Near Black . . (Superesedes MS1) Shade G10. . Dark Grey . . (Supersedes MS2 and is equivalent to the shade of Admiralty Pattern 507A Paint) Shade G20 . . Dark Khaki . . (Supersedes MS3) Shade MS3B . . Greenish Khaki Shade B30 . . Light Khaki . . (Supersedes B6 and MS4) Shade B55 . . Light Grey . . (Supersedes MS4A) Shade B15 . . Blue Grey . . (Supersedes B.5) Shade G45 . . Grey . . (Equivalent to the shade of Admiralty Pattern 507c Paint) Shade .. Chicago Blue Shade .. Sky Blue for Masts 2. The attention of all concerned is drwan to AFO 2106/43 regarding the introduction of A1 and A2 class qualities of paints for external and camouflage painting and the instructions contained therein for their procurement and use (612/233/981.) Notes 1. A 1943 date for this document makes sense in the light of Alan Raven's date for the G5-B55 range as 1942. 2. "Supesedes" shows that the RAN would have been familiar with the earlier ranges, and hence we can reasonably expect them to be in use. Note that this order means that from this point on all new paint would be the shades shown, but experience with tank colours suggests that all old stocks would be used up - I suspect that AFO 2106/43 would say something to this effect. New builsinf and re-fits should, in theory, use the new colours. Note too that the expectation is that all paint is drawn from stores, and presumably supplied pre mixed. This argues for less variety in shade etc that if colours were home brewed. 3. "Equivalent" does not necessarily mean "the same as" in British WW2 camo use - it means "performs the same function in camoflage as" - so, G45 need not be an exact match for AP507C. In tank use SCC2 (brown) was the equivalent of G3 (green) as both were a medium-dark base tone. 4. The quirky descriptions nevertheless do - with a little imagination - describe the tones shown and validated for the S&S chips, whose standard of reserach is exemplary 5. Three colours from this list appear in no other list I've seen: MS3B; "Chicago Blue" and "Sky Blue". I don't have a ready explanation for these, other than to suggest that they may represent a modification to suit Aussie conditions - for example predominantly strongly lit "Tropical" backgrounds. Note that "Sky Blue" is used where most RN schemes whould probably use white - perhaps a sign of a reaction to stronger light and darker backgrounds. Maybe this too explains Chicago Blue - a need for a darker more saturated blue until the arrival of B20 in 1944. This is pure hypothesis, of course - Chicago Blue might be the Aussie equivalent of a USN colour.. I note that Bathursts in 44-45 show a very dark hull and light upperworks. MS3B might, on the basis of this logic, be an attempt at a more saturated foliage green along th elines of USN usage. 6. It's worth noting that the change from the MS tones to the B/G tones is often subtle, and I think reflects a general change away from chromate based greens which led the Army to browns and olive greens which made greens with ochre and black instead (SCC2 and eventually SCC15 replace G3). This shows up nicely on the S&S chips - compare MS3 and G20 for example. 7. It may be worth pursuing the AFO referred to - does anyone have such references for RN use? Hope this helps - at worst it simply says what colours were in the pallette from which a given unit would have been painted. Mike Cooper Reading UK - wet and windy (the Town, not me.....) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: "M & R Brown" Subject: AS2700 colours & BS colours Mike, Per AS2700, these are the colours that match to BS381C. Standards Australia produce the standard in Acrobat. Unfortunately, they have the copying function barred so I am having trouble finishing the list for those that match BS5252. If I ever succeed, I'll post it too. AS 2700 (1996) # NAME BS 381C (1988 unless noted) # NAME T45 Cootamundra 101 Sky Blue T24 Blue Jade 102 (1980) Turquoise Blue T53 Peacock Blue 103 Peacock Blue B14 Sapphire 104 Azure Blue B13 Navy Blue 105 Oxford Blue B62 Midnight Blue 106 Royal Blue B24 Harbour Blue 107 Strong Blue B11 Rich Blue 108 Aircraft Blue B15 Mid Blue 109 Middle Blue B12 Royal Blue 110 Roundel Blue T35 Green Ice 111 (1964) Pale Blue B25 Aqua 112 Arctic Blue T51 Mountain Blue 113 Deep Saxe Blue T63 Teal 114 (1980) B21 Ultramarine 166 French Blue T22 Oriental Blue 174 (1964) Oriental Blue B51 Periwinkle 175 Prussian Blue G55 Lichen 210 Sky G44 Palm Green 216 Eau-de-nil G33 Lettuce 217 Sea Green G24 Fern Green 218 Grass Green G56 Sage Green 219 (1948) G15 Rainforest Green 220 Army Helicopter Olive G23 Shamrock 221 Brilliant Green G25 Olive 222 (1980) Light Bronze Green G63 Deep Bronze Green 224 Deep Bronze Green G14 Moss Green 225 Light Brunswick Green G12 Holly 226 Mid Brunswick Green G11 Bottle Green 227 Deep Brunswick Green G21 Jade 228 Emerald Green G16 Traffic Green 267 Traffic Green G22 Serpentine 275 (1980) Opaline green G34 Avocado 278 (1964) Light Olive Green G31 Verdigris 280 Verdigris Green G52 Eucalyptus 283 Aircraft Grey/Green Y21 Primrose 310 Primrose Y24 Straw 352 Pale Cream Y25 Deep Cream 353 Deep Cream Y12 Wattle 355 Lemon Yellow Y14 Golden Yellow 356 Golden/Rescue Yellow X21 Pale Ochre 358 Light Buff X41 Buff 359 (1964) Middle Buff X52 Coffee 360 (1980) Deep Buff Y55 Deep Stone 361 Light Stone Y43 Parchment 365 Vellum Y44 Sand 366 (1980) Light Beige Y45 Manilla 367 Manilla X12 Pumpkin 368 (1980) X31 Raffia 369 Biscuit Y53 Sandstone 384 Y54 Oatmeal 388 Aluminium X51 Tan 410 (1980) Light Brown X54 Brown 411 Middle Brown X65 Dark Brown 412 Dark Brown X53 Golden Tan 414 Golden Brown X63 Ironbark 436 Dark Camouflage Brown R53 Red Gum 444 (1964) Dark Camouflage Brown R62 Venetian Red 445 Venetian Red R63 Red Oxide 446 (1980) Red Oxide R42 Salmon Pink 447 Salmon Pink R64 Deep Indian Red 448 (1964) Deep Indian Red P31 Dusty Pink 453 (1980) Shell Pink X55 Nut Brown 489 (1980) Leaf Brown X64 Chocolate 499 Service Brown R13 Signal Red 537 Red Arrows Red/Signal Red R15 Crimson 538 Gloss Red (Post Office Red) R14 Waratah 539 R55 Claret 540 (1964) Crimson R65 Maroon 541 Maroon P11 Magenta 542 X15 Orange 557 Light Orange R11 International Orange 592 International Orange R12 Scarlet 593 N35 Light Grey 627 Light Aircraft Grey N24 Silver Grey 630 French Grey N41 Oyster 631 Light Grey N63 Pewter 632 Dark Admiralty Grey B64 Charcoal 633 (1980) RAF Blue/Grey G64 Slate 634 (1964) Slate B53 Dark Grey Blue 636 (1980) PRU Blue N53 Blue Grey 637 Medium Sea Grey N54 Basalt 638 Dark Sea Grey N64 Dark Grey 640 (1980) RN Extra Dark Sea Grey Y61 Black Olive 641 (1980) Dark Green N65 Graphite Grey 671 (1964) Middle Graphite B43 Grey Blue 692 Smoke Grey N45 Koala Grey 693 Aircraft Grey P13 Violet 796 Violet P23 Lilac 797 Light Violet Michael Brown -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: Mark McKellar Subject: 1/350 Trumpeter Beehive Enterprise Has anyone actually seen one of these kits? If so, how about an out of box review? Mark -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: "Robert Mosher" Subject: Re: Japanese Aircraft Carrier Air Wings Jim Dunnigan and Al Nofi wrote in "Victory at Sea" (pgs172-173) that Japanese information is unavailable for 1943 and at Leyte Gulf, the makeup is unclear. The 4 carriers (Zuikaku, Zuiho, Chiyoda and Chitose) could operate about 170 a/c but had a total of only 116 (80 fighters, 36 torpedo bombers) but most were flown off to land bases before the action leaving only 29 a/c with the fleet. The two "hybrids" had no aircraft. They also produced a table of typical air groups by ship class for the war: Dec 41 CV: 18 ftrs; 18 divebombers; 18-27 torpbombers; total: 54-63. CVL (Zuiho, Shoho, Ryujo) : 16-24 ftrs; 0-21 dbombers; 0-21 tbombers; total 37-45 CVE (while IJN did not build CVEs, Hosho, Ryuho): 9-12 ftrs; 0 dbombers; 6-12 tbombers; total: 15-24 Notes: All less than rated complement, apparently a standard practice in the IJN. At Midway, KAGA apparently did have 30 ftrs; 23 dbombers; 30 tbombers; total 83. June 1942 CV: 21 ftrs; 21 dbombers; 21 tbombers; total 63 (KAGA had 9 more tbombers) Aug 1942: CV: 18-27 ftrs; 27 dbombers; 18 tbombers; total: 72 CVL: 16 ftrs; 21 dbombers; 21 tbombers; total 37 Note: SHOKAKU at Eastern Solomons had only 14 dbombers. Oct 1942: CV: 18-27 ftrs; 20-27 dbombers; 10-23 tbombers: total 55-72 CVL (ZUIHO): 18 ftrs; 0 dbombers; 6 tbombers; total 24 (Note: JUNYO total 55; SHOKAKU total 61; ZUIKAKU total 72) May 1944: CV: 26-27 ftrs; 25-26 dbombers; 17 tbombers; total 69 CVL: 20-21 ftrs; 0 dbombers; 9-10 tbombers: total 29-30. Hope that helps. Robertm@combatic.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: "chenyangzhang" Subject: Battle of the Philippine Seas Hi John The Marianas figures are as follows Taiho 27 x A6M5a, 27 x D4Y1, 3 x D4Y1c, 18 x B6N1 Shokaku 27 x A6M5a, 27 x D4Y1, 3 x D4Y1c, 18 x B6N1 Zuikaku 27 x A6M5a, 27 x D4Y1, 3 x D4Y1c, 18 x B6N1 Junyo 27 x A6M5a, 9 x D4Y1, 9 x D3A2, 6 x B6N1 Hiyo 27 x A6M5a, 18 x D3A2, 6 x B6N1 Ryuho 27 x A6M5a, 6 x B6N1 Chitose 21 x A6M5b, 3 x B6N1, 6 x B5N2 Chiyoda 21 x A6M5b, 3 x B6N1, 6 x B5N2 Zuiho 21 x A6M5b, 3 x B6N1, 6 x B5N2 Source; The Battle of the Phillippine Sea by W D Dickson. You also need to remember the various spotter planes and land based planes involved Chris Langtree Iowa best battleship - a nice joke -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: Felix Bustelo Subject: Re: AOTS HMS Victorious Hi Folks, Just wanted to say a quick thank you for the replies. I thought that it would cover her in her various fits over the years, just wanted to confirm. Regards, Felix Bustelo International Maritime Modeling URL: http://members.tripod.com/~Febus65/imm.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: louellet@uism.bu.edu Subject: Re: Veteran's Day and Familiny in service My best wishes and thanks also go out to all men and women who have served in the armed services to keep our country free. My father Leo Ouellette served in the Air Force and Army reserves in the late 1950's and early 1960's. An option at the time was 6 years reserve service in exchange for a low number for the draft. In 1961, the Berlin Wall was being built and my father's Air Force Reserve unit was activated and sent to France, near the German border. The farewell made the front page of the Boston Globe, including a 2 by 3 inch picture of my parents in a goodbye kiss. While overseas, my mother received an AWOL letter from the Army reserve unit my father had spent a short time in while the Air Force had cut back. My mother had to tell the Army he was not on active duty with the Air Force! I have 3 uncles who all served in WWII. My uncle Joe DeVito signed up as soon as he graduated highschool and served on a PT Boat Tender in the Pacific. My oldest uncle, George Boomhower was in the Army and was part of the occupational force in Japan. He met and befriended some Japanese people who became lifelong friends. My uncle Ray DeSantis was in the Air Corps and was a gunner in a bomber (B17 I believe). We just lost Uncle Ray suddenly a few months ago. I have not served myself, but I honor those that did and still do by volunteering at the United States Naval & Shipbuilding Museum (USS Salem). Again, thank you one and all. Larry Ouellette louellet@uism.bu.edu Volunteer, USS Salem (CA 139) United States Naval & Shipbuilding Museum Quincy, Massachusetts, USA http://www.uss-salem.org/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: "J. London" Subject: First ship At the risk of starting off a new thread how many out there remember the first ship, warship or merchant, they served on or visited? In my case it was the Australian cruiser HMAS SYDNEY just completing on the Tyne. I was eight and my great uncle worked at Wallsend Slipway and Engineering who supplied the engines. It was a day for family visits for employees who had worked on the ship and I remember my Great Aunt (who should have known better) calling her the "battleship grey". The only thing I really recall about the ship was taking a ride in "A" turret as it was trained to starboard. As for merchant ships it was many years later, when I was serving in the British Army in 1947, that I sailed from Southampton to Port Said on the Union Castle Line ARUNDEL CASTLE. It was after the war and she was already in peacetime colors and, in fact, carried civilians as well as troops. My most vivid recollection was, as ship's orderly officer, reporting to the bridge in the middle of night with the ship doing 23 knots through a rough sea. It was quite an experiance. Michael London -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24) From: Fkbrown90@aol.com Subject: First aircraft carrier Do you know when and where the first aircraft carrier appeared? Your opinions are solicited. My candidate will appear soon in a subsequent posting of SMML. (I am waiting for confirmation, and will post it timely). Franklyn -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 25) From: Peter K. H. Mispelkamp Subject: Gneisenau during and just after the "Channel Dash" Does anyone know anything about the camouflage pattern carried by the Gneisenau in the period of the Channel Dash? I have seen one photo which is "supposedly" identified as being of her in dry dock just after her bow was blown away during an RAF attack just after she was drydocked to repair the mine damage she received. The photo is a little unclear, but seems to show patches of colour on the hull and the superstructure. Photo is on page 36 of Breyer's book on the Gneisenau - published by Schiffer. I want to build my Heller Gneisenau for this period, and any information on this scheme would be appreciated. TIA and happy modeling. Sincerely Peter K. H. Mispelkamp -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 26) From: "Graham Walker" Subject: RN site Does anyone know what has happened to RN Encyclopaedia : Royal Navy 1930 - Today: http://www.royal-navy.org.uk/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 27) From: Fkbrown90@aol.com Subject: Re: WW1 110' subchasers I have heard, through the grapevine, that some company is close to releasing a plastic kit for subchasers, but I am not sure if it is for WW1 or WW2 vintage (there are considerable differences between the two). If any SMML subscribers know more about this, please let me know. Even if no-one has any info now, notification of a release will be welcome. Thanks. Franklyn Brown -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 28) From: Fkbrown90@aol.com Subject: Re "What did you do in the War, Daddy" I, in no way, lay any claim to being a Veteran, but in WW2 I was a member of the Civil Air Patrol (CAP, not to be confused with the Combat Air Patrol of the Navy in the Pacific Theater, the real flyers), beginning as adjutant of the Boston Squadron in 1943 and serving briefly as C.O. in 1945. I did not fly submarine patrol, but much of my effort was in the area of Cadets, many of whom we prepared for service in the Army Air Corps. I did fly one mission that I only recently found out why. It was assigned to us as merely forest fire observation. I didn't see any fires at the time. But recently I saw a "Now It Can Be Told" segment on TV about the fire-bomb balloons that were launched by the Japanese. They were designed to float eastward across the Pacific in the Jetstream. The Japanese were aware of this phenomona at the time, but the U.S. was practically ignorant of it. At preset times and/or altitudes these balloons would descend and drop incendiary bombs, quite randomly, plus one explosive bomb. Most of the incendiaries did little or no significant damage, although there was one (possibly two) deaths when people found a downed balloon and triggered the explosive bomb. Most of the balloons came down in the wilderness areas of the western regions, but a few got to the mid-west. The military elected to keep it a secret as much as possible, to avoid a panic if the public knew about such a random weapon, which would be classified today as a terrorist device. The CAP, as an auxiliary of the AAF was asked to look for these fires in the remote forest areas, but we were not told anything about where they came from. Very small potatoes, indeed, but definitely part of the big picture. Franklyn -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 29) From: "Mike Leonard" Subject: HMS Edinburgh Murph stated - >> I think in March 1942 HMS Edinburgh was the flagship of Rear Adm. S.S.Bonham-Carter << A excellent tip, which led me to www.world-war.co.uk and a page on WW2 Cruiser Operations. Fantastic site which had the full story of the sinking of Edinburgh and even featured a picture of the admiral. So if I own one of the man's caps, I'd better build a model of his flagship to go with it. Another hit on "HMS Edinburgh" pulled up an article on the beautiful White Ensign kit in 1/700. Will add it to my Christmas list. Regards, MWL -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 30) From: "John Sutherland" Subject: Steve Wiper's Visit very far south Kia Ora Steve, If you are interested in Museums then the following are worth a visit depending on your interests. From South to North: Air Force World at the old Wigram Airforce Base in Christchurch Te Papa - the National Museum in Wellington (rated world class by international critics) The Maritime Museum - also in Wellington Southwards Car Museum (also rated world class and has a few other things besides cars) just north of Paraparaumu about 1 hr car drive north of Wellington Airforce Museum outside Ohakea Air Force Base about 2 hours north of Wellington Army Museum at Waiouru in the centre of the North Island - superb museum Navy Museum at the Navy Base in Devenport, Auckland. IMHO our model shops and book stores are not much cop and don't cater all that well for modellers, especially naval ones. All the serious naval modellers I have met in NZ import heavily by mail-order. Probably the best book shop is in Wellington in Waring-Taylor St - I can't remember its name even though I work just across the road! If you want scenic trips you need several weeks to see this country - it is huge size wise (about twice the size of the UK!). Contact me and I can advise and maybe help if I can. If you are still in Wellington on Saturday 18th the local IPMS club has its annual competitions that day and I would be delighted to take you there! To contact me - I'm not going to put my phone numbers on a Bulletin Board - but Lester has my phone numbers and knows where I live - he's been here a few times! I would be honoured and delighted to meet you. John Sutherland Wellington, New Zealand -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 31) From: tom dean Subject: Remembrance Day Hi Gang: Just returned from the Remembrance Day Services at the Cenotaph. I serve as a member of the Mayor's Veterans Committee and the parade and service is the main event of our yearly agenda. Because it was a Saturday we had wonderful crowd and turnout of the vets. Nice weather for this time of year helped a lot. We even had an Australian "Digger" on parade (take note Shane) here on detached duty. Unfortunately didn't have a chance to talk to him. Anyway for the main reason for this message. After the service we host a luncheon at the major hotel in downtown Hamilton. As usual we have the commanding officers of local militia and naval units, the mayor and various mps, mpps etc. One mp attending happens to be the "Minister of Heritage and some other such things" These are the people in charge of amongst other things museums etc. After the luncheon she called me aside, she happens to be the rep for my political riding and I knew her dad, to tell me something important. It just about floored me! You will remember a few days ago an enquiry about the times H.M.C.S HAIDA was open to the public. As some of you may know she is need of repair, especially to her hull. I was told that very shortly the Government is taking possession of the vessel to ensure her well being. Next spring they are going to remove her from Toronto harbour and have her towed to Port Wheler at the entrance to the Welland Canal to the shipyards there. She will have her fragile hull repaired and be "refitted" as need be. When completed she will not be returning to Toronto. She will be berthed at the planned Great Lakes Museum as part of the waterfront renewal in Hamilton Ontario. Her berth will be alongside the naval reserve barrack H.M.C.S. STAR. Although not officially announced it seems to be a done deal. I will keep you up to date as I here more. Tom Dean Hamilton, Ontario Canada -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 32) From: sanders_talmadge_fc1 Subject: Re: Cole photos, an obsevation rhinobones, About the Cole pictures you saw. there is a boot top waterline as there is on all navy ships, some of the ports that we pull in to aren't as clean as the US. in fact some are downright polluted. there is always some microscopic marine growth occurring on our hulls that isn't apparent while the hull is wet. by effectively dry-docking the Cole they dried out the hull, killing these growths. that gives the appearance of no boot topping. by the way I am starting on a BaDshipmodels 1/96 scale Ticonderoga class cruiser. I made this choice because I am presently stationed on the USS Princeton CG-59. I am fairly new to the ship modeling arena and was wondering if there were many people in Southern CA, San Diego that might be willing to give out some pointers. thank you. tsanders@princeton.navy.mil (work) skyman2u@aol.com (home) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 33) From: "Melea/Mike Maynard" Subject: Re: Celebs Regarding celebrities, actors Victor Mature, Cesar Romero, Buddy Ebsen, Don Ameche, Arthur Godfrey, Sid Caesar, Gig Young, Rudy Vallee all served in the US Coast Guard in WWII. Famed boxer Jack Dempsey and author Alex Haley also served during the war. With the exception of Arthur Godfrey, all saw service overseas, most served on cutters on convoy escort to Europe. LT. Jack Dempsy was in the invasion of Iwo Jima on an LST, others celebs like Humphrey Bogart and conductor Arthur Fidler were considered too old for service but joined the CG temporary reserves, serving at shore based units. My dad was a P-38 crew chief in the U S Army air corps(8th Air Force) serving in England, North Africa, Sicily, Italy, and France. He was proud of his service but didn't relate to me a lot of war stories. The few he told me were great like the time he took a "hop" in the back of a Lightning to photograph the eruption of Mt. Versuvius(sp?) in 1943. The 19 year old pilot tried to impress my dad by shutting down both engines and trying to make the 38 "glide". The pilot however didn't know how to re-start the engines in flight: my father had to shout to him the correct procedure and they made it back to the airfield none the worse for wear. He did tell me of many of the screw ups the USAAF made in Europe. "How did we win the war?" I asked once. "Well" he said, "the enemy made more mistakes than we did". My dad passed away in October of this year, he was truly a member of the greatest generation. Mike M. USCG(ret) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 34) From: Mike Connelley Subject: Photoetch help (please)? Howdy: I would like to attempt to do some photoetching myself for the Yamato I'm currently working on. I found the etchant (ferric chloride) at the local Radio Shack, but they did have the photo-resist spray or developer (kind of like having peanut butter and no jelly, it just doesn't make any sense). Furthermore, none of the electronics shops in Honolulu carry these items. Does anyone know a good place to get the photo-resist and developer, preferably on-line? So far, my web searches have been fruitless. Also, has anyone on the list attempted photoetching on thier own? Having never done this, I would appreciate to hear your experiences and learn as much as possible before I actually start. Cheers Mike Connelley -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Infomation -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: maeisen@erols.com Subject: Washington DC Area SMMLcon 2000! Folks: I would like to organize an informal Washington DC area SMMLcon 2000 for the afternoon of Sunday, 10 December, 2000 (that's early next month), and would like to find out how many of you folks from the DC area would attend. Basically, we're talking about an informal get-together of SMMLies living in the DC area, to get to know one another and show off some finished ship models, or something currently under construction. You would get to meet other illustrious SMMLies such as Mike Leonard and John Burch, and basically have a good time. I figure, the whole thing would last maybe 2-3 hours. Contact me directly by e-mail if you are interested in attending (please do not clog up the SMML list!), and I will fill you in on the time and place as the event approaches. Looking forward to meeting some of you then! Yours truly, Mike Eisenstadt In sunny Silver Spring, Maryland -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Chris.Evenden@agso.gov.au Subject: Ship kits for sale For Sale: All prices are in Australian Dollars. Overseas orders welcome. US customers multiply these prices by 0.53, and Uk customers by 0.38. 1/700 Kits Fujimi Tone Cruiser $8 Hasegawa Hancock CV $15 Aoshima South Carolina BB $8 Italeri Carl Vinson CVN (w/GMM etch set) $18 Albatross Gearing DD $10 Sumner DD $10 Skywave Cannon DE (w/Tom's Modelworks etch) $15 Fletcher DD $10 Gato SS $10 Oldendorf DD (Spruance w/GMM etch) $15 DML Trafalgar vs Oscar SS $10 Oakland CL $10 Tarawa LPH $18 Exeter (w/ WEM etch set) $15 1/350 Tamiya New Jersy BB (w/GMM etch set) $70 KGV $70 DML Ticonderoga CG $20 Odd scales Revell U99 U-Boat 1/125 $12 Lionfish Gato sub (w/Nautilus Models etch and Harder resin update/conversion) $35 Saucy Flower Class Corvette 1/72 $150 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://www.smml.org.uk Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://www.tac.com.au/~sljenkins/apma.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume