Subject: SMML VOL 1063 Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2000 07:16:08 +1100 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: 1/350 Trumpeter Beehive Enterprise 2: Detailing set for 40mm Bofors & 20 mm Oerlikon 3: Viking Riverine Kits 4: Signal flags 5: first ship 6: PRO Files on RN colours and Jap sub decks 7: Re: Hasegawa´s 1/700th U-boats 8: Corsair Armada USS Ranger 9: Re: FSM Collectors alert! Vol #1 is included 10: Re: Scale Ship Modeler 11: Re: props 12: What My Dad Did 13: Re: Barnegat Class Seaplane Tenders 14: My CV-6 model 15: Saratoga aircraft schemes 16: Re: American Battleship 17: Re: First Aircraft Carrier 18: "New" Brasilian CVL Sao Paulo - aircraft 19: Re: Hampton Roads Naval Museum 20: Re: Photoetch help (please)? 21: ICM news anyone?? 22: Missing parts & Flower addons 23: Modelkrak Guides 24: Too Many Scales 25: Saratoga bridge windows 26: Re: RAM launchers 27: My Dad in WWII 28: Airfix Great Western Kit 29: Re: USMC Amtracs 30: Scharnhorst Camo / Operation Cerebus 31: First Aircraft Carriers 32: Swedish Colours 33: Re: Bad Joke -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Infomation 1: Dutch IPMS nationals -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Naval Weapons Book Wanted -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Darren Scannell Subject: Re: 1/350 Trumpeter Beehive Enterprise >> Has anyone actually seen one of these kits? If so, how about an out of box review? << Hi Mark, I took one out of the box at the hobby shop and did a quick inspection. The major item is that the Beehive is completely the wrong shape and totally useless. After I saw this, I didn't really look much further other than to notice than it is an average kit detail wise and the hull comes already bolted together, whereas the Tamiya kit hull has to be bolted by the modeler. Probably not much help, but that's my opinion. Darren Scannell -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "enrico_villa@libero.it" Subject: Detailing set for 40mm Bofors & 20 mm Oerlikon Hi guys, does anybody know of a detailing set for 1)40mm Bofors single barreled a.a. gun 2)20mm Oerlikon single barreled both in 1/72 scale? I desperately need them for a Matchbox/Revell Flower class corvette. Bye Enrico -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Matthew Prager" Subject: Viking Riverine Kits Hello fellow SMMLies, I'm looking for several of Viking's riverine model kits in 1/72 scale, specifically the PBR, Monitor, and LSSC. I know they are out of production, and that there was problems with the kits and the company - but still would be interested in acquiring them. Does anyone have one they want to get rid of - or can point in the direction of someone who does? Thanks - Happy modeling, Matt Prager -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Fkbrown90@aol.com Subject: Signal flags Can any SMMLer (that isn't smeller, is it?) please identify three specific signal flags of the WW1 era, and the message they convey? The first (and upprtmost) is square, having three blue vertical stripes and two yellow vertical stripes. The second (middle) is square, and is red with an edge-to-edge (therefore large) yellow cross. The third (lowest) is also square, and is blue with a white square in the middle. Knowing the letter designation is only half the solution. Knowing what is the message so indicated by this unique is the other. I went to a large U.S. Government establishment whose principal function is to guard the American coast (I don't like to mention names) for answers, but they had no idea of what I was talking about. When I asked how they communicate with ships, etc.,they advised that they used radio. "Sic Transit Gloria Mundi" (So Passes The Glory Of The World)! I know the old U.S. Navy official publication "The Bluejacket's Manual" contains these data, but I cannot find a copy, especially one distributed during WW1. (which my father had, and I, as a kid, used to love to look at, but is now long gone, alas). Help, please. This particular grouping of flags appears on an old emblem that was attached to the top of license plates in the old days and was distributed by Shell Oil Co. when you bought a certain amount of gasoline. Perhaps some of you older guys remember seeing them, along with the Flying Red Horse (Standard Oil), etc. If the flag message is at all appropriate, I would like to fly it from my WW1 subchaser model. Franklyn e-mail is Fkbrown90@aol.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: shirley sachsen Subject: first ship I have two vivid recollections of 'first ships'. My father was a civilian employee at our naval air station and we went to the various open houses and air shows. When I was very small, I remember being aboard a carrier. I have no idea which one it was--but we were going up to the flight deck in the usual method of carriers: on the elevator. I've always had 'issues' with water, and certainly heights over water where one can see the media 'through the floor'. Our place on this elevator was over one of the tie downs and naturally I fixated on the green water below. I was convinced that I was going to be sucked through the tie down! The rest of the tour isn't even a memory, but the vision of clinging to my Mother for dear life is still with me :-) I am more than aware of the irony of now 'serving' aboard a museum carrier, more than likely the same class and located at the same pier as that dim dark past visit many years ago. And, yes, I'm still convinced I'm going to be sucked through the catwalk to the water below :-) My other vivid recollection is when the battleship New Jersey made a port visit to NAS during the Vietnam War. There was a mob and we were cheek by jowl as we were herded over the main deck. As we came past one of the great gun turrets, which carried a large scale representation of the ship's ribbons, I slapped the side of it. I had expected to hear the hollow ring of metal, but instead heard the solid slap of my hand. I was convinced the turrets were constructed of concrete, since metal couldn't be that thick or 'ring' that solid. As a result of this visit I have always been impressed with this class of ship, having had a first hand experience with it, and have had a personal fondness for the New Jersey. What presence and visual power such a ship represents! s -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Cooper, Mike" Subject: PRO Files on RN colours and Jap sub decks Dear SMMLies Our recent discussions on RAN colours and the new Alan Raven book have all touched on primary sources. Thanks to a tip off from Michael Brown I've checked the UK Public Record Office catalogue for WW2 documents from the Admiralty Experimental Station and Admiralty Reserach Lab. There are over 200 files, covering things from range finders to optical glass, but there is a chunk on camouflage. I've yet to look at the files myself - thats for my next trip. Some may actually be missing and they may not be as useful as they sound. In other words, don't get your hopes up. That said, I've found unexpected delights in other files - like a 1915 diagram on how to make hurdles! OK... some handy looking files. The number is the PRO file number, and is the one to quote when you go to the PRO. Having been myself (just once) I'd urge you to go as its a great place to work. Their catalogue is at http://catalogue.pro.gov.uk ADM 212/126 Uniform camouflage design.....(1942-1944) ADM 212/124 Standardisation of Admiralty camouflage colours (1942) ADM 212/130 Camouflage colours of HM Australian ships (1943) Do take a look at the online catalogue. Cheers Mike Cooper Reading UK PS. Watched my tape of the BBC series Nautilus last night - history of subs. The prog on mini-subs at war showed good on deck footage of IJN subs - showing again dark, wood textured decks. It also seems to show i-58 as a kaiten carrier and others - eg. I-36?. Worth noting that the crews seem to be in light kkaki. Did everyone tape "Britain at War in Colour"?? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: Cataldo Torelli Subject: Re: Hasegawa´s 1/700th U-boats Hi Thors, These are one of my first purchases. Not bad at all. I've just finished the type VIIc three months ago and I'm impressed by the result. Improve the deck railings, add ultrafine rigging (just three lines !) and a flag and make a good sea scape. And if you want to extra detail them, add the Tomsmodelwork PE set for Axis subs. I've made mine without PE. Maybe some day I will post to SMML site some photos. With the type IXc, I'm planning to model it sumerging in a rough Northen Atlantic sea. Wish me good luck !! Best regards, Cataldo Torelli. Madrid, Spain. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: TonyK375@aol.com Subject: Corsair Armada USS Ranger I am looking for a 1/700 CV-4 USS Ranger. Made by Corsait Armada. Tony Kassin -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: FSM Collectors alert! Vol #1 is included FSM Collectors alert! For everyone collecting FSM, the VERY rare test shot issue is included. The same poster is selling off the first three complete years of FSM. Rusty White Flagship Models - Photo Etched Details for Warships http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ We now accept Visa & MasterCard world wide via Pay Pal "Yeah I want Cheesy Poofs" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Scale Ship Modeler >> A couple of months ago you sent in a comment stating that SSM was out of business. Was this a rumor or did you have something to base it on? << Sorry, I don't recall posting that. I did post that I have heard rumors that the Detail and Scale series was being discontinued. But I stated it was just that, rumors. I contacted Bert Kinsey personally about it and his comment was very ambiguous. So much so I couldn't get a definitive answer from it. So who knows? Rusty White Flagship Models - Photo Etched Details for Warships http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ We now accept Visa & MasterCard world wide via Pay Pal "Yeah I want Cheesy Poofs" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: David_L._Miller@CCMAIL.WIU.EDU Subject: Re: props For what it is worth, I have been searching the web and catalogs for months, including those sites recently mentioned on this list. I have yet to find metal (brass or bronze) five bladed props at sizes below 3/4' in diameter. A 3/4 in. prop is still too large for a 1/350 battleship or aircraft carrier. I have just ordered the photo etch surface ship props from Flagship, and I have hopes these will work. It would seem to me somebody is overlooking a very good niche here. I cant't imagine that people who shell out $40 bucks on a photo etched railing set would hesitate to pay a bit more to put metal props on thier static models. The plastic props that come with the kit are OK, but who wants OK after they have put photo etch rails, hatches, benches, radars, etc. etc. on their ship. 1/700 seems to be very popular right now. Anyone making 1/700 props or are people using the plastic or resin ones that come with the kits? Or all these kits "waterline"? Regards, Dave Miller -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: Sean Obrien Subject: What My Dad Did My father served on the USS Albacore SS-218 for 8 war patrols. Like Kurt Greiner's father he didn't talk about it much. He'd gone to the Naval Academy wanting to fly fighters when he graduated. With the U.S.'s entrance into the war his class graduated a year early and had to serve 2 years fleet duty. After all, the Navy spent all that time training them and there were all those college boys to make aviators out of. My dad, not wanting to take the chance of being stuck in some backwater post chose submarines. They needed officers and he wanted to see action. He shipped out with the Albacore on her third patrol. He was on her when they sank the IJN Taiho, one of Japan's biggest carriers, out on her shakedown cruise. He transferred out after the Albacore's tenth patrol. On her next outing SS-218 hit a mine in Tokyo harbor and sank with no survivors. This might be the biggest reason my dad doesn't talk much about the war. He lost all of the people who shared his experience with. He then served on the training sub O-8, a WW 1 boat, readying new crews until mid 45 before being sent to flight school. My dad did get to live out his dream. He is a plank owner of the USS Coral Sea. He flew Corsairs as a member of VF6B on her shakedown cruise. He retired after 20 years as a full commander in 62. He was up for his captaincy but with 8 children already (I'm one of 12). He's probably one of only a few with both their Dolphins and Wings Of Gold. BTW, he just turned 80 and has his flight certification again! Just because your 80 doen't mean it's over! Sean O'Brien -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Brett Merrill Subject: Re: Barnegat Class Seaplane Tenders Several of the Barnegats were turned over to the USCG and served as WHECs. I believe The Coast Guard Museum Northwest sells plans for them in 1/96 scale. 1519 Alaskan Way S. Seattle WA 98134 206-217-6993 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: Cataldo Torelli Subject: My CV-6 model Hi SMMLies, Just to share with you. After a couple of years of research about CV-6 USS Enterprise I'm back on the 1/700 Tamiya kit and adding the scratchbuilt torpedo blisters. Here I go !! Best regards, Cataldo Torelli. Madrid, Spain. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "wblad" Subject: Saratoga aircraft schemes The 3-color scheme was officially introduced 1 Feb 1943. On 22 Mar 1944, this was changed to glossy sea blue overall for fighters only. 7 Oct 1944 saw glossy sea blue overall extended to all carrier aircraft. These are the "paper" dates that the schemes were promulgated. It probably took some time before all aircraft in the fleet were painted to the above standard. In Jan 1944, all the planes would be in the 3-color scheme, but by July 1944, the fighters should have changed to overall glossy sea blue. You will need to do some photo research to determine the actual appearance of Sara's air group in between these dates.. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "Poutre, Joseph A" Subject: Re: American Battleship From: "Norman C. Samish" >> Your statements are always interesting if sometimes puzzling. You say that "One American battleship managed to put itself out of action with its own gun fire and had to be saved from being sunk by its compatriot. My point is this: the combined fleets analysis is meant to be taken seriously." These sentences raise some questions: I'm not familiar with the American battleship incident. Can you give more details about the ship putting itself out of action? Are you implying that this incident illustrates that American battleship design is inferior to, e.g., British battleship design? If not, what are you implying? And why is the American battleship incident relevant to a "combined fleets analysis"? << At the Third Battle of Savo Island, battleship USS South Dakota was knocked out of a fight when her electrical system failed due to a mighty cock-up. Had battleship USS Washington not been with her, the IJN battlecruiser Kirishima would have had a good shot at sinking or at least seriously damaging her, despite being an significantly inferior combat vessel. The point is that the circumstances of battle can often diminish or reverse what should be clear advantages for one side. According to Combined Fleet's analysis, SoDak would have blown Kirishima out of the water; but because of a screw-up, she nearly got her a** shot off. Numbers are always interesting, and are right under ideal circumstances, but there are always times where the numbers go right out the window. For example, an aquaintance wargamed a situation where HMS Vanguard sank the Yamato in a daytime stand-up fight. Vanguard shouldn't have stood a serious chance, but in the simulation a fog came in, allowing Vanguard to fight via radar and leaving Yamato basically blind. To use a sporting analogy, Sugar Ray Leonard could beat Mike Tyson to a pulp if Tyson were wearing a blindfold. I hope this helps you understand why the analysis is interesting, but doesn't always stand up in reality. Joe Poutre -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: "Alan Roots" Subject: Re: First Aircraft Carrier Hi folks Bradford said >> If you define a carrier by the ability to land and launch an aircraft, then arguably the USS Pennsylvania, when fitted with the aft deck for the experiments with a Curtiss biplane would qualify. << Partially right On 14 November 1911 not a naval airman but a stunt man Eugene Ely took of form the USS Birmingham, using an improvised ramp and only just managed to reach take off speed damaging the prop when he hit the water but he survived. The following January he tied landing as well. He rigged a system of ropes attached to sandbags on the deck of USS Pennsylvania and was brought to a halt as he landed by a hook on his aircraft, but no mention of a launch form the Pennsylvania. It has been suggested he took of from a land base, I can't imagine he stayed airborne for over two months though. Britain wasn't far behind in December 1911 Lt Charles Samson made a secret (unknown to the Admiralty!!) launch from the battleship HMS Africa flying a Short S.38. His aircraft had been fitted for sea use having both wheels and floats so he was able to land on the water and was recovered by crane the wings folded and the aircraft stowed. The following January Samson flying a Short.27 made another flight in public and the Admiralty backed further experiment. In 1915 the first torpedo aircraft the Short.184, encouraged the construction of a real carrier with a flight deck and a hangar below. A half completed liner being built for an Italian firm and the result was HMS Argus, she wasn't completed until September 1918, just before Armistice. The cruisers HMS Furious and Vindictive were fitted with flight decks, the former was fitted with a flight deck aver the forelock only. The bridge and funnel remained making the approach hazardous, yet in August Sq. Comdr. E. Dunning RNAS side slipped past the obstruction and made the first deck landing underway, in a second attempted in higher wind speeds he overshot, stalled and was killed in the crash. More interesting was the converted Cunarder Campania. In 1914 she was fitted with a flight-deck 200 feet long for launching seaplanes from trolleys. She operated with the fleet, and should have been at Jutland, but failed to read the order to sail in time. She was sunk in collision in 1918 It is well known that many capital ships were able to launch but not always recover aircraft. As far as the US is concerned my references are sparse but I think the story runs almost parallel. I am trying to find references for the Campania, it seems to good to miss this one. Regards Alan Roots -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: "Poutre, Joseph A" Subject: "New" Brasilian CVL Sao Paulo - aircraft I'm not the only one planning to purchase a Heller Foch and convert her to Sao Paulo. Or maybe I am? A-4s will be her primary aircraft, and there are none out there in 1/400. I'm putting in the first request for A-4 Skyhawks in 1/400. WEM already make Trackers and Tracers, though the report is that Brasil may operate Embraer-built aircraft for AEW. And helos... Joe Poutre -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: "Glenn and Kelly Neklason" Subject: Re: Hampton Roads Naval Museum For those uninformed, the Hampton Roads Naval Museum is located in the Nauticus (an aquarium type museum) on the waterfront in downtown Norfolk. The USS Wisconsin (BB-64) is scheduled to be moved there from the Norfolk Naval Shipyard on Dec. 7, 2000 (the 57th anniversary of her launching) and opened to the public in April 2001. Glenn -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: Tom Detweiler Subject: Re: Photoetch help (please)? >> I would like to attempt to do some photoetching myself for the Yamato I'm currently working on. I found the etchant (ferric chloride) at the local Radio Shack, but they did have the photo-resist spray or developer (kind of like having peanut butter and no jelly, it just doesn't make any sense). Furthermore, none of the electronics shops in Honolulu carry these items. Does anyone know a good place to get the photo-resist and developer, preferably on-line? So far, my web searches have been fruitless. Also, has anyone on the list attempted photoetching on thier own? Having never done this, I would appreciate to hear your experiences and learn as much as possible before I actually start. << FWIW, Mike Connelley As a Test Engineer in the electronics industry, I can help you and all with some background on home etching, since I've often etched my own circuit boards from magazine articles and the like. What you'll be doing isn't really "photoetching", which involves photolithography to get real fine lines but you'd be surprised what you can produce with a little practice, it's very satisfying. And you can use photoetching techniques but I'll not get into that here. I'll defer to folks like Rusty and others to tell you what they use as etchants these days, but Ferric Chloride works fine for thin copper or brass sheet, both of which you can buy in machine shops or supply houses as "shim stock". Can't tell you what thickness to use, that depends on the end function but you can mike a photoetch piece to find out. For God's sake, BE CAREFUL with the d__n FeCl2, though-this stuff STAINS everything it touches permanently, including fingers, stainless steel or porcelain sinks, toilet bowls, etc. and can ruin more things faster than anything you know except maybe CA glue! It is very reactive with any metal, so you don't pour it down your drains. You need to use plastic, disposable throwaway pans and containers to etch in. And latex gloves with no holes in them. Room temperature is best. Handle the metal with old tongs. You can use it over and over again by just letting the etched metals precipitate out to the bottom of the container (they are heavier) and just pouring off from the top. Disposal is a problem, it will dye toilets and sinks too! I just go out and dig a hole in the ground and pour it in since it is messy but not particularly toxic (don't drink it though). As for the "resist" part, Radio Shack sells "resist pens" to draw lines with, but guess what? These are just plain old sharpie type pens, which also work just fine; paint pens or sticks work even better. Just experiment to find what works. I use a brand new BLACK sharpie. The thinner the material the less time you leave it in the etchant. Again, experiment with scrap. The resist just prevents the etchant from bonding with the metal and starting any etching action. For finer lines, use a finer pen, going over the lines twice, and leave it in shorter periods. Have lots of messy fun! Tom D. in Rocklin -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: Keith T Bender Subject: ICM news anyone?? Hi SMMLies, So has anyone got the word on the 1:350 ICM models to come soon, Japanese cruisers and the Hood. Any known dates. I think their Hood will sell like there is no tomorrow and probably those cruisers too. We want an Essex, come on guys lets have it. Boy does this sound like a kid waiting for Christmas! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: peter samolinski Subject: Missing parts & Flower addons I was missing one of the 88 mounts for ICM's "Koenig" - they sent me the entire "J" fret! If anyone needs any part off this fret, please post a notice, and I would be more than happy to send it to you. I missed the recent talk about p/e frets for the Revell-Germany 1:72 Flower class corvette. Could someone please refresh my memory as to what's available? TIA Pete -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: "Mike Leonard" Subject: Modelkrak Guides For the benefit of anybody who has bought Modelkrak kits, I finally got a friend to translate the not-so-detailed Polish painting guides into not-so-very-detailed English. So far he's come up with: (1) Battleship SUVOROV Peacetime colors - black hull, wood decks, white superstructure and gun turrets, yellow stacks with black tops. Russo-Japanese War colors - overall gray except for tops of stacks, which were still black, and wood decks. (2) Battleship PERESVIET Overall gray, with yellow stacks and black tops. Upper masts = black. Lower hull of steam cutter = red. Did not address the timeframe when this scheme was used. Mike -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24) From: "Timothy J. Barron" Subject: Too Many Scales While browsing for moden US Carriers (Nimitz, Enterprise, etc.) at a local hobby store over the weekend, it seems as if the number of scales keeps growing! I saw kits from Tamiya, Arii, Italeri, Trumpeter, Fujimi, etc. Each in their own scale. Are there any photos and reviews of the Trumpeter kits? 1/350 1/400 1/500 1/600 1/700 1/720 1/800 Timothy J. Barron mailto:tjbarro@worldnet.att.net -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 25) From: "wblad" Subject: Saratoga bridge windows I hope that I didn't mislead you with my previous answer. After re-reading your original question, I'm not certain which bridge level is in question. As rebuilt, Sara had 5 levels. The third level (your question) is just below the pilot house. It's forward face is the conning tower with only narrow vision slits. To the side at this level are portholes. Above this in the pilot houst with square windows. The mast is at this (fourth) level. Above that is flag plot, which has a wind screen with square windows at the front, but the structure itself has portholes. Above that is sky forward, which is open, and the director with it's built in range finder is behind this. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 26) From: Craig R Bennett Subject: Re: RAM launchers Hi Guys, Previously in the SMML issues we talked about the Spruance class DD's with the ram launchers. When I visited the Nicholson DD-982 9 days ago I noticed that hatchway doors were painted gray on the inside of the hatch and the passage ways on the conning tower connecting the bow to the midships were painted on the right side of the ship white enamel and black on the left side of the ship. Also something I've never seen on Spruance class DD before. Propeller guards. I was busy at the time. Craig -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 27) From: VessIrvine@aol.com Subject: My Dad in WWII We call him "Pops," now age 91, the last surviving member of the 1929 Washington and Lee University football team back when they played big schools like Auburn and Georgia Tech. With leather helmets and no face guards, he left his teeth on the gridiron. Back then, men were men and not the wimps playing football today. Pops contribution to the war effort was undoubtedly the highlight of his career. Prior to the war he was a sales/engineering executive in the stainless steel manufacturing business. Over 30 with two kids and one on the way, and with critical skills, he was exempt from direct military service. He won the bidding contract for Eastern Steel Tank Company to build complete cabin/bridge superstructure modules for LSTs. They built them on dry land in Brooklyn and then barged the competed assemblies to New Jersey to bolt directly to the hulls of the LSTs. The ships were produced in the hundreds and represented American "mass production" at its finest hour. The Navy was so pleased with this performance that Pops was offered a commission as a Navy Reserve Captain with the intention of asking him to run a shipyard. Mom kind of killed that idea. "No way are you going off to who knows where in the Navy and leaving me with three kids at home." He was 35 by then and this was the right decision. They won the war in the shipyards of Brooklyn and saved a lot of American lives. Vess Sr. was also a volunteer fireman and air-raid warden during the war. My uncle was a GI in Europe. He came home seriously messed up mentally and was always a bit "strange" after that. My grand uncle never immigrated to America and remained in Holland to watch over the European end of the family tulip bulb business (export, import, growers and wholesale). He served in the Dutch underground during WWII and ended up eating some of his product to stave off starvation. Common of that generation, he never talked much about his experiences. They never foregave the Germans. Regards Vess Irvine Denver -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 28) From: Joel Labow Subject: Airfix Great Western Kit Is anyone on the list familiar with this kit? Specifically what is the scale? Thanks, Joel Labow -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 29) From: john.baumann@talk21.com Subject: Re: USMC Amtracs I'd like to thank John Maze for following this up, he is absolutely correct. Truth is I didn't have all my sources to hand at the time and should have stated that my answer was only an interim response. It's good to see that so many SMMLies out there with such an interest More sources now follow. LVTP7: Armies & Weapons No.14; Military Modelling 1/1987; Japanese Panzer 10/1979 No.52. LVTPX: Military Modelling 2/1974. Request: Does anyone have the date for the UK IPMS Southern Expo in Hornchurch for next year please. Regards, John -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 30) From: GrafSpee34@aol.com Subject: Scharnhorst Camo / Operation Cerebus Keep in mind that the the camouflage measure applied to Scharnhorst at the time of Operation Cerebus was not intended especially for a Channel breakthrough. Rather, it was applied, in conjunction with camouflage netting, to obscure the ship from air observation at its moorings. Moreover, due to the extremely tight security surrounding the breakthrough, no obvious preparatory measures such as a new "Channel" camo scheme could be taken. Due to the lack of definitive photographic evidence, the model builder has to make educated guesses based on the available photos. To my mind, photos seem to indicate the parts of the superstructure which protruded above the nets had a sloppy dark grey/medium gray dapple camouflage painted on, while the portions below the nets were left solid light or medium gray. The hull seems to be streaked with rust, and the paint is heavily weathered. The hull also appears to be in a two-tone scheme, with the armored belt area a dark gray, the rest of the hull the same light or medium gray as the superstructure. Not a particularly attractive scheme. An excellent reference is Robert Stern's "Kriegsmarine a Pictorial History" from Squadron/Signal. His color illustration of Scharnhorst tends to agree with the photos I have seen. As with the Bismarck's final days, a turret top color controversy rears its ugly head with Operation Cerebus. Stern claims that the turret tops of capital ships involved in Cerebus were painted blue, as a recognition aid to assist the Luftwaffe air cover. However Stern provides no documentary evidence to support this, nor have I yet seen any documentation elsewhere. The turret roofs of Scharnhorst and Prinz Eugen definitely appear a lighter shade, and freshly painted, so it may be correct. (Stern does provide a caveat concerning color schemes in this book, and says he would like to hear from anyone with conflicting information.) I imagine definitive answers to KM turret top color questions are buried in a Luftwaffe operations file held by some archive. Air recognition measures would have been communicated from the navy to the air force, to be included in pilot briefings. Dave -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 31) From: GrafSpee34@aol.com Subject: First Aircraft Carriers I suppose the question of when the first aircraft carrier appeared would depend on your definition of aircraft, as much as the definition of carrier. During the Civil War, i believe some manned, tethered obervation baloons were launched from rafts. D. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 32) From: "Cooper, Mike" Subject: Swedish Colours Dear SMMLies Just when you thought I'd got RAN on the brain.... I think I've asked this before, but without much success. Anyone know anything firm about Swedish colours in WW2. From photographic eveidence it looks like they start with light vertical surfaces - about the tone of the dark tone on 1939 KM - and dark decks. By the end of the war they show up with two camo tones over this - dark patches outlined medium. The obvious modelling answer is to call everything greys, but....... Any ideas?? Mike Cooper Reading UK - where we've had a spledid but cold day - at least outside the Library...Anyway, I'm off for a pie at Sweeney's. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 33) From: pugs99@att.net Subject: Re: Bad Joke Hi All, A certain legend in his own mind writes: >> Iowa best battleship - a nice joke << HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM...lets see....I don't recall seeing any of the Japanese laughing in any of the photos or newsreels that were taken as the USS MISSOURI-IOWA CLASS BATTLESHIP-came steaming into Tokyo Bay to recieve the surrender?? Last active Battleships in the world also...But, I guess that doesn't mean anything. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Infomation -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Michiel Woort" Subject: Dutch IPMS nationals Here a short note from the dutch IPMS Nationals last weekend. There were a lot of ships on the table, not that much as last year but there were still about 35 - 40 ships in the contest. The SIG ships also had a table were there were a lot of ships also. The contest was in the big scales very high. First place for the superb 1/350 Bismarck by Jos Visser, second place for a very nice diaroma 1/400 Le corce + LCT by Dirk Derks and third place 1/350 Hr.Ms. Tromp by myself. When I have time I will send an Short review from this new Artitec model. There was also a lot of selling, making and showing of models. And even for the kids make it and take it tables, only airplanes for the kids perhaps the SIG ships can help next year. I hope next year we have the same our better show then this year. Greetings Michiel Woort -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: GrafSpee34@aol.com Subject: Naval Weapons Book Wanted Hi I am looking for a copy of Campbell's "Naval Weapons of WW2" also Friedman's "Naval Radar". If anyone has a copy to sell or trade please contact me off list. Thanks Dave -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://www.smml.org.uk Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://www.tac.com.au/~sljenkins/apma.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume