Subject: SMML VOL 1065 Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2000 18:56:42 +1100 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Chicago Blue 2: U-boat off New Jersey 3: First ship 4: signal flags 5: CV-6 AA fit 6: Re: Dad's war 7: flag codes 8: Re: Impressive sights 9: Re: First ACs 10: AFOs and CAFOs 11: Re: Who are You? 12: Wisconsin 13: Aircraft Carrier Islands 14: My GRANDdad in WWII 15: Re: first aircraft carrier 16: Re: What did you do in the war, Daddy? 17: Carrier answers 18: Re: American battleship 19: Cutting Resin Hulls 20: Re: American Battleship 21: Re: Flower add-ons 22: Re: VCR alert 23: Help 24: Re: Trumpeter USS Enterprise Bee Hive kit box review 25: Working Jackets 26: Last LCS? 27: Ton class minesweepers and Dealey frigates 28: Re: First Aircraft Carrier 29: Book Recommendation 30: Combat subs 31: Re: ICM news anyone?? 32: First Ship 33: pennants and first ships 34: Re: Ballard Search 35: "Das Boot" - The Lifesize Model 36: Massachusetts 37: Inspiration - 1/350 CVN-65 Enterprise 38: Re: first ship 39: Gneisenau camouflage early 1942 40: ARLEIGH BURKE CLASS 41: Signal flags 42: Operation Dear Abby - Remember Our (US) Troops 43: HMS Illustrious '40, SMS Seydlitz '16 44: Re: Tarawa CV-40 45: PBS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: NEW 1/1250 SCALE UPDATE 2: PT boat books for sale 3: AIRANDSEAMODELS.COM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "M & R Brown" Subject: Chicago Blue This was apparently a US Navy colour and they gave it that name so that it would be immediately recognisable as a US colour rather than RN. The decision was made to use it as many vessels were serving alongside USN ships. The cynics say that it was to stop the Yanks automatically opening fire on a different coloured ship to theirs!!! It was either used as an overall colour (Hobart, Australia & Arunta)or on a panel as in the Standard Light Tone Scheme but using Chicago Blue instead of B20. Interesting, B20 existed in 1943 but is not mentioned on the document that was posted the other day. We understand that all RAN ships at Leyte Gulf wore this colour overall. Have a look at any photos of Hobart or Australia circa 1943/44 and you can see the very dark colour they are painted. I always thought it was dark grey but now we know better. I wonder if any RN ships ended up with Chicago Blue as some were painted in Sydney where B20 would not have been in stock. I have a photo of Anson in drydock in Sydney early 1945 and the Duke of York was in too. If/when we find out the USN colour or find out any more, I'll burst back into life. Meanwhile, for a change, exactly what were RCN colours from 1945 to 1965 ie the Canadian Standard, FS or British Standard references? Michael Brown -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Craig R Bennett Subject: U-boat off New Jersey Hi Guys For all I know this is old news.On PBS Nova program was the story of a sunken German U-Boat discovered 60 miles east of New Jersey's coast at 230ft down on the sea floor by Scuba divers in 1990.So they tried to learn the sub's hull number. The US Navy and Coast Guard had no listing of sinking a U-boat that location. So 7 men all civilian and not archelogists just because they were interested in diving began what became a 7 yr effort on their own to indentify this sub. During that effort 3 of the 7 died. What's really interesting is when they did learn the sub's hull number. It was U-869.That sub was recorded as being sunk off North Africa. Orginally U-869 was ordered to patrol off New York but then was reordered to North Africa. She acknowledge the first set of orders but not the second. However what destroyed her nearly blew her midship section out. The best guess is she torpedoed her self on convoy attack. Not knowing her fate all German records listed her being lost off North Africa.In 1999 the PBS program aired in Germany and one man survined U-869 was interviewed. He was hospitalized for appenatitis for the sub sailed which was first patrol. It brought back it all the horrors and the good times to him. So if you want, in any book you guys own on U-boats put an index card that's marked U-869 sunk off New Jersey coast in 1945 not off North Africa. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Minadmiral@aol.com Subject: First ship Hi; Windjammer STAR OF INDIA in San Diego. Right outside my Dad`s office window. I have loved ships ever since. Chuck Duggie WoodenWalls Listmeister Naval wargamer, amateur naval historian, and ship modeler -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Mithrand@aol.com Subject: signal flags i hope this helps out blue and yellow vertical stripes Golf G red with yellow cross Romeo R blue with white square centre Papa P ROMEO when flown singly in harbour means: Am Ready Duty Ship PAPA when flown singly in harbour means: All personnel belonging to this ship return to ship immediately. GOLF has no harbour usage The royal Navy still uses flags but the art is a dying one im afraid,the ships i served on were survey ships HMS Beagle, HMS Hecate, HMS Fawn, HMS Hecla they also used a system of hoisted black balls to give indication to other ships to stay well clear during survey operations.not many civvie ships paid any attention to this if you want any more info drop me a line. happy smmlie everyone Darby allen -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Cataldo Torelli Subject: CV-6 AA fit Hi, I'm still researching the CV-6 AA fit in her galleries in Jun'44. I have doubts about the starboard side from the beginning of the island to the fantail. I would appreciate a drawing or photos for that area. Thanks in advance, Cataldo Torelli. Madrid, Spain. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: ALROSS2@aol.com Subject: Re: Dad's war My dad was with MTB RON 3 in the Philippines at the beginning of the war. He was the coxswain on PT 34, a 77' ELCO. In action, he manned the starboard Lewis gun forward of the cockpit. The 34 boat was strafed and set afire on 9 APR 42 and he was captured a couple days later. He spent the rest of the war as a Japanese POW and was repatriated in October 1945. He remained in the Navy until he retired in 1958 as a Commander with three commands at sea. He died in 1993. So, if you ever wondered where my interest in small combatants came from..... A book and subsequent movie, "They Were Expendable", were made about the squadron's actions in the Philippines. If you've seen the movie, John Wayne played the skipper of the 34 boat who, in reality, was Bob Kelley. Al Ross -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: Chris Rogers Subject: flag codes Whilst seeing a notation on codes does any one out there in model land or navy know the code in flags /pennants that HMS Plymouth F126 wore whilst on station in the Falklands conflict as her pennant was painted out chris Oz -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Bradford Chaucer Subject: Re: Impressive sights >> Iowa class BB was leading a flotilla into the harbor. The view from the ferry's lower deck as the battleship slowly came over the horizon was simply magnificent. I was simply mesmerized as the upper works and then the turrets and the hull came into view. << I have always believed that the sight of a battleship like an Iowa class or a large carrier steaming toward your coast exemplifies Teddy Roosevelt's old line about talking softly and carrying a big stick. I saw a large AC in San Francisco bay a few years ago during fleet week, and it does draw ones attention :-) It would have to make even the densest despot think twice :-) Regards, Bradford Chaucer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: Bradford Chaucer Subject: Re: First ACs From: HPolvi@kgp.cclcustom.com >> OK here's another question for you on this thread - why do all aircraft carriers have the islands on the starboard side?? And note some of the early one didn't have islands at all. << I think I can answer that one with some newly gained experience :-) It goes back to the same reason that flight paths on takeoff always direct port or left. In the early rotary engine aircraft, the torque and gyroscopic effect of the rotary engine would cause the plane to nose dive if a bank to the right was attempted therefore left directed flightpaths became standard, hence the need to keep the area to the left of the plane clear. The same would probably be true on landings. It appears from most of the films I have seen, with that notable exception of the F6F splitting in half after a collision with the island, that most carrier mishaps involve a veer to the left, and frequently a roll off the port side of the deck. The gyroscopic effect would be lower with a radial engine, but probably still a factor in single engine aircraft, hence I presume that the standard once established remained in effect following the demise of the rotary engine design. BTW the source of my newly gained insight was a very knowledgeable tour guide at the Smithsonian's Garber storage facility in Maryland, A trip that should be on everyone's list if you are in the DC area. When I get some time, I will try to post a review of my impressions. Regards, Bradford Chaucer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "Cooper, Mike" Subject: AFOs and CAFOs Dear SMMLies Thanks to Dimi for the CAFOs and AFOs - the class at the PRO is ADM182. As far as I can tell from the catalogue this class is arranged choronologically with each batch or order in a year getting a file number within ADM182 - I've not tried a detailed serach yet. Given the list posted finding should be an awful lot quicker as the AFO number gives the year. I'm not sure if the hard copy class list will give all the docs withing a given year, so it may be a case of wading through if you try to go beyond the actual list given. Thanks again Mike Cooper Reading UK Chill and dull, but brightening. (again the town and not yours trully!) BTW - there is a nice large scale model of HMS Reading in our Museum. Contemporary, but colour doesn't match her photo in Hague The Towns.... I sctrachbuilt her matching the photo. We can also boast a censored copy of the Bayeaux Tapestry with no naughty-bits!! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: pugs99@att.net Subject: Re: Who are You? Sorry, Hit that send button too soon..Still believe that it was definitely a bad joke... Regards, John Impenna -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "chenyangzhang" Subject: Wisconsin Hi Rusty I don't think the Iraqis gave a toss whether the cruise missiles came from Wisconsin or a barge moored off Basra. Likewise if the Japanese had been told to sign the surrender on the President Warfield they would have done so. Chris Langtree -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Rod Dauteuil Subject: Aircraft Carrier Islands >> OK here's another question for you on this thread - why do all aircraft carriers have the islands on the starboard side?? And note some of the early one didn't have islands at all. << As other list members will undoubtedly write, some Japanese carriers had the island on the port side. IIRC, it was found that during a landing or wave off, carrier pilots had a tendency to err to the left, thus making it logical for the island to be placed on the starboard side. Also (now putting my pilot's hat on) propeller aircraft have a natural left turning tendency. This is caused by the tourque of the prop, the spiraling slipstream effect, and the angle of attack the prop blades have on the relative wind. To go into aerodynamics here is definitely off topic, but if anybody's interested, write me here or at skymaster@mediaone.net. Rod -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: Friedrich Kappes Subject: My GRANDdad in WWII I´m only 23 yers old, so my father was born during the Berlin crisis in 1948. My Grandfather served as a 17 year old boy in Hitlers army as a grenadier = infantery. Twice wounded in Russia in 1943 and in the Ardennes in 1944, stationed also at Konstanz (Lake Constance) after his 2nd hit. He was a Melder (= postman you could say) walking alone through Russia delivering the most important command of the Gröfaz that were hopefully leading the way to the Endsieg... His narrations convinced me not to serve in the Bundeswehr as Wehrdienstleistender (after school you do 10 months of military service lerning to defend Germany against... France? Poland?, I don´t know as long as there´s something to defend...) but to serve at a hospital as Zivildienstleistender. But some of my grand uncles served with the Kriegsmarine too: 1 lost in a sub, 1 lost in a Räumboot and 3 wounded in a Dergl (one of the very very little patrol craft), 2 survived though being submariners. But they died before I was born. That´s all of my proud military heritage. In fact it´s great luck, that grandpa survived his wounds, twice shot in wintertime and left alone in the cold. He was finally captured in hospital by GI´s and after the rest at the hospital he was allowed to return home to his family´s "farm", it was a very little farm. The next 2 years he learned his job and cut woods for his family and the Allies. Friedrich The FriedrichFiles http://sites.netscape.net/friedkappes -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "Fernando, Yohan" Subject: Re: first aircraft carrier >> OK here's another question for you on this thread - why do all aircraft carriers have the islands on the starboard side?? And note some of the early one didn't have islands at all. << The first carriers did not have islands as it was assumed too difficult and dangerous for a pilot to attempt a landing on a flight deck with such large obstructions. When the HMS Furious was first converted to carry airplanes, she retained her original bridge and funnel structure with the flight deck build fore, aft, and around the superstructure. Needless to say, there were many accidents from pilot crashing their planes into the bridge which was literally in the center of the flight deck. She was eventually rebuild with a completely flush deck. Islands were introduced to improve flight operations and give a better vantage for navigation/communications and overall command. Placing the island on the starboard side has to do with the nature of the aircraft carrierd. On single-engine prop planes, the spinning of the propeller induces a force on the plane making it want to veer to the left. So placing the island on the right side of the flight deck puts it out of the path of the planes natural tendency to veer left. The Japanese were the only ones that I can think of that experimented with port-side islands (Akagi and Hiryu) and I can't find a reason why they did so, unless for some reason they were operating planes on those ships whose props rotated in the opposite direction than on 'normal' planes, which would make them have a tendency to veer to the right instead of the left (any other ideas?). As it turns out, all other Japanese carriers after the Hiryu stuck with the starboard side island. Yohan Fernando -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: Edd Pflum Subject: Re: What did you do in the war, Daddy? My father didn't talk about the war much (at least to me), but I gleaned the following: LeRoy Otto Pflum began in the Illinois National Guard and joined the civilian pilot training program. During his training, they began a rule about how many "Chewing Surfaces" a candidate had (a way of thinning the ranks -- there were a lot of pilot volunteers). My Dad didn't have enough teeth, so he was out. He joined the Army Air Corps and was trained as a mechanic and flight engineer. Before he could be assigned, he raised a ruckus and got sent to Gunnery school. My Mom followed him to Amarillo, Texas and Floridea. While he trained, she worked as a government clerk. In Florida, her unit inducted Donald O'Connor (co-starred with Bing Crosby in "White Christmas"--nice tie in with "Celebs" thread, eh?) S/Sgt. Pflum became an engineer/gunner (top turret) on a B-17 headed for England. Bad weather led their plane to abort the flight for England, and return to Nova Scotia. In Nova Scotia, crews leaving for England were given a "Care Package" of cigarettes, chocolate and other goodies for the trip. His plane aborted four times and piled up massive quantities of goodies. In England, Dad was assigned to the 447th Bomb Group as a replacement. He joined a crew who's engineer had been wounded. Dad said he never shot anything down because the turret was always covered with frost. Once, another B-17 was hit and blew up directly above his ship. Looking up through the turret (not frosted this time, I guess) he saw one of the engines falling directly down onto his plane. Dad ducked out of the turret and hid behind some equipment to "protect" him from the falling debris. Luckily the motor missed. On the crew's 25th mission (not Dad's, replacement remember) they had my Dad to sit it out so the original engineer (out of the hospital) could fly with them on their last mission. Dad agreed. The plane never came back. After 25 missions, Tech Sgt. LeRoy "Pappy" Pflum (he was 30) returned to the USA for B-29 training and the Pacific Front, but the war ended before he completed his training. After the war and back in Chicago, Dad worked at several jobs to support his wife and new baby (ME!). He heard of a good job at O'Hare Air Force Base. Unfortunately, the job required the applicant be a member of the Air Force Reserve, and Dad, at 35, was too old. He went to see the Base Commander: "You're too old!" "But I need this job!" He went to see the Chaplin: "You're too old!" "But I need this job!" He went to see the Ward Healer (NOTE: A Democratic worker for the Machine - government - of Chicago): "You're too old!" "I'll vote over and over again!" He got the job. A few weeks after Dad got the job, the North Koreans rolled into South Korea, and Tech Sgt. Pflum was ordered to active duty. He went to see the Base Commander: "I'm too old!" "Tough!" The Chaplin: "I'm too old!" "I'll pray for you, my son." The Ward Healer: "I'm too old!" "Too bad, there's a war on!" So, Dad went to serve (again) as the flight engineer on a Curtiss C-46 Commando transport out of Leavenworth, Kansas where the US Army has (had?) a large and famous prison. A neighbor down the street would ask me where my Daddy was. "He's in Leavenworth!" I would proudly proclaim. Edd Pflum Westmont, IL "Taking time to SMML the Flowers" ;-) Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: "Bruce" Subject: Carrier answers US Carries First-Carries the US Navies first training Carrier was USS Langley CV-1 reconverted to seaplane tender AC-3-1937 lost off Java coast 27- Feb.1942 loss to crew 16 USS Pacos AO-6, USS Whipple DD-217 USS Edsall DD-219 in company, at1332 hrs. the order to abandon ship was given and escorting destroyers fired nine 4in shells into her hull, and two Torpedoes, to insure her sinking, she went down about 75 miles south of Tjilatjap, read the book Pawns of War chapter 6 that's the real US Navy first carrier now get over it. question why is the Inland on starboard side answer so the pilot can salute the Plane Capt.or Bridge Capt. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: "FCR" Subject: Re: American battleship Hello there Just a few adjustments "At the Third Battle of Savo Island" - That's a new one!!! I know this battle as the Second Battle of Savo Island. There were 5 major surface battles in Guadalcanal Campaign: First Battle of Savo Island (08/09-08-1942), Cape Esperance (11/12-10-1942), Battle for Guadalcanal or Lunga Point (12/13/11-1942, Second Battle of Savo Island (14/15-11-1942 and Tassafaronga (30-11-1942). Regards Filipe C. Ramires Lisboa, PORTUGAL -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: "Leslie Brown" Subject: Cutting Resin Hulls Generally, I prefer my models to be waterline (I don't want to start that debate again!) but I have a number of resin models that are only cast as full hulls. Does anybody have any suggestions as what is the best way to remove the lower hull - by hand with a fine bladed saw or very slowly with a power saw of some sort? I am aware of the dangers of resin dust so any help would be appreciated. Thanks Les Brown -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: "Norman C. Samish" Subject: Re: American Battleship >> I'm familiar with the Washington - South Dakota - Kirishima incident, which was the only US battleship vs. Japanese battleship duel in the war. Norm Samish >> Hi Norm, You're forgetting the Battle of Surigao Strait where the US also fought a battleship duel against the IJN in 1944. << Hi Shane, You're right about Sirigao Strait being a battleship duel, but other forces were involved. I was referring to one-on-one battleship vs. battleship. According to: http://www.odyssey.dircon.co.uk/LEYTE_GULF_Surigao_Strait_.htm the two Japanese battleships Fuso and Yamashiro were sunk by a combination of air power (one bomb hit on Yamashiro), MT boats (no hits), and destroyers (one torpedo hit that ultimately sank Fuso, three to five on Yamashiro). Yamashiro at this point was certainly damaged, and accompanied by a cruiser and a destroyer when she encountered a fleet of US cruisers and six battleships in a night action where the US radar was a key factor. Yamashiro was sunk, while the cruiser and destroyer escaped, only to be sunk later. Norm Samish Hi Norm, Fair enough ;-). Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: Erwin Van Deynze Subject: Re: Flower add-ons >> I missed the recent talk about p/e frets for the Revell-Germany 1:72 Flower class corvette. Could someone please refresh my memory as to what's available? << Absolutely everything! David has overdone himself again ! Best to take look at his website : http://www.djparkins.clara.net/gls/glsmast.htm You'll find the complete list of the sets there... On the Telford-show, David told me there is a possibility he'd release the deck fittings set without the decks after I've told him I've already decked mine... As a starter, I've bought the main gun set, it is absolutely stunning, a kit on it's own ! Others on the list have also sets, so you probably get many replies. Erwin -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: Tom Detweiler Subject: Re: VCR alert RE the VCR alert for PBS' "Hitler's Lost U-Boats", it was GREAT- two full hours of spellbinding watching, with lots and lots of detail, closeups, history and personal tragedy. PBS also has even more info on it on their website. Sometimes PBS can really do it right, and produce compelling TV. Anybody with an interest in submarines or Uboats or ships will get a charge out of watching this one. Lots of footage of other ships, subchasers, torpedoes, etc. Highly recommended!! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: "Chris Cameron" Subject: Help Hi all, Just a short question... I read in a recent article that washing up liquid is not suitable for pre-washing of plastic kits as it leaves a chemical shine on the plastic. If this true, what is the best cleaning agent to use on plastic prior to painting using acrylic and what is the best cleaning agent to use on photo-etching? Can anybody enlighten me in to what they use? Cheers -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24) From: "Ken P LeMaster" Subject: Re: Trumpeter USS Enterprise Bee Hive kit box review This is the Trumpeter copy of the Tamiya USS Enterprise with the island parts changed to some extent. The hull comes pre assembled so the box is longer. There is a motor and the gear box already placed inside and the battery box is molded into the bottom of the hull. Parts placement are the same as the Tamiya parts except the tree for the island. Instruction book is the same except for the 1st 4 pages of the Tamiya book, the history and operation information, being left out. Illustrations are the same except for the island. You will need to clean off the mounting ridges for the 2 forward sponsons that were added during the 79-82 refit period. The Sea Sparrow launchers are the ones that are standard with the Tamiya kit and the Trumpeter kit also supplies the Vulcan/Phalanx close in guns and mounts that also were not on the early configuration. My initial impression is that the island parts are not correct and the bee hive part is too tall and slender. I plan to photo enlarge the corresponding parts from my Arii 1/400 kit so I can do a 1-1 comparison and I will report what I find later. Bottom line, If you want to do an early configuration Enterprise, this kit will allow you a base to start from at a lower cost, but there will be a lot of work to correct the island and hull. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 25) From: "Mike Leonard" Subject: Working Jackets Bill McBride asked - >> Can any USN WWII vets enlighten me as to what color working jackets were worn. I believe most working jackets were dark blue. Also, were any foul/cold weather jackets green (olive drab) as was the case during the 1960s? << I knew a Master Chief who entered the Navy in the 1950s. On the subject of enlisted uniforms, he once stated that they used to issue a denim work jacket that matched the dungaree trousers. I haven't seen examples or know of any references to this, however. The book "Spearheading D-Day" by Jonathan Gawne has several color and black-and-white photos of period USN deck clothing and foul weather gear worn by SeaBees, Beach Masters, and shipboard personnel involved in the Normandy landings. These include a dark blue "tanker" style jacket and various olive green garments, such as the alpaca-lined 'N1'. Mike -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 26) From: "Mike Leonard" Subject: Last LCS? I was sent a newspaper clipping concerning what might be the last surviving seaworthy "Landing Craft Support" known to exist. It was transported from California to the new D-Day Museum in New Orleans, where it will be restored and placed on exhibit. The LCS was built by Higgins Industries and its role was to lead waves of LCVPs and other landing craft towards invasion beaches. Thus, it was armor plated and usually carried four machine guns and other weapons. The story appeared in the November 4 edition of the New Orleans Times-Picayune. Could not find a URL, however... Mike -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 27) From: "FCR" Subject: Ton class minesweepers and Dealey frigates Hello SMMLies There is any model of the Ton class minesweepers at 1/700 and for the Dealey class frigates? Resin or plastic ... Thanks in advance Filipe C. Ramires Lisboa, PORTUGAL -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 28) From: "John Sheridan" Subject: Re: First Aircraft Carrier >> OK here's another question for you on this thread - why do all aircraft carriers have the islands on the starboard side?? And note some of the early one didn't have islands at all. << Two words: Propeller Torque (on the aircraft that is...) John Sheridan The only human to defeat the Minbari is behind me, you are in front of me. If you value your lives, be somewhere else. : Delenn -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 29) From: "John Rule" Subject: Book Recommendation To the listmember, whoever you are, who mentioned the book Cruisers in Action 1939 -1945 by Peter C. Smith and John R. Dominy.....thank you. I located a copy through bookfinder which cost me $30 and am very pleased with the purchase. Thanks again. For those not familiar with the book it is about Royal Navy cruisers, is illustrated with 23 black & white photos and 47 profile drawings. It was published in 1981 and is in an approx. size 9"x6". John -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 30) From: "John Sheridan" Subject: Combat subs Anyone know how to reach this company? I am interested in their 1/350th scale submarine models. John Sheridan The only human to defeat the Minbari is behind me, you are in front of me. If you value your lives, be somewhere else. : Delenn -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 31) From: "John Sheridan" Subject: Re: ICM news anyone?? >> I have tried to beat it out of ICM on e-mail but they do not seem to answer. I asked my local hobbie shops if they have any news and all they can say is when they see it then they have arrived. So whoever finds when they appear on a shelf let the rest of us know.<< You will not see another new kit from these guys until they sell enough to pay for the current production and tooling costs of the Koning. They did not even have test shots of the Hood kit at the IPMS convention so what does that tell you? >> As to the hope of a 1/350 Essex I am with you. I do not care if it is ICM, Tamiya, Heller (1/400 ok) or Revell as long as it is at least an 8 on a scale of 1 to 10. (Lindberg Essex = about a 3 in my book). << You will probally see an Essex from the resin guys long before you see one from ICM! Too bad Tom's Modelworks kit is out of production. John Sheridan The only human to defeat the Minbari is behind me, you are in front of me. If you value your lives, be somewhere else. : Delenn -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 32) From: "Bob Reddy" Subject: First Ship I'm giving away my age but - on Navy Day 1945, NY City had the Pacific Fleet (at least most of it) in for the weekend. President Truman reviewed the fleet anchored up the Hudson River from the deck of the Missouri (bare wood decks). A lot of the CV's and CVL's were tied up at the various piers on both sides of Manhattan. As a lad of 9, I had just moved to NY. We lived a few blocks from the George Washington Bridge and my Dad took me out to mid span. There were nest of subs anchored in mid stream for a few miles along the river. My Dad took me down to pier 26, the old NYC pier to go on the Enterprise and Monterrey. I was quite impressed with the size, but I didn't have the reverence for the ships that my dad did. If I had only been a little older!!. My understanding is that the fleet sent units into every port on the east coast, probably the west coast and Gulf also. I know that there were cruisers and DD's in every town that had a dock all the way up the Hudson River. I visited the Missouri, New Jersey and FDR when the had port visits in the 50's. I went on board HMCS Magnificent when my own ship USS Antietam CVS 36 paid a visit to Halifax, NS, in 1955. I am pretty sure you can find a lot of pictures taken at NYC Navy Day celebrations in copies of old Life magazines. I recall seeing color shots of BB New York near the Statue of Liberty. I joined the USMC in 1954 and requested "sea duty" - and they gave it to me!!!!!! I served on the Antietam CVS 36 out of Quonst Point, RI, then as an Admiral's Orderly assigned to NATO in Paris and Brussels. Not too shabby. The rest of my 10 years was a tad less colorful - a lot of mud, marches, etc., etc. (i.e. - a grunt) Trips to exotic places - hot places mostly. Oh well, as my Gunny would say - you joined didn't you! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 33) From: Jodie Peeler Subject: pennants and first ships hello all.... Dave wrote: >> According to my 1931 edition of the International Code of Signals (Visual) the flags are GRP, meaning "GIVE WAY ... (Keep out of the way)." In the context of a license plate frame, I guess it is the nautical version of the Yosemite Sam mud flap that reads "BACK OFF" << My all-time favorite is the one J. Bryan III described in "Aircraft Carrier" (one of my favorite naval books), called the What-the-Hell pennant: "Mueck (CV-10's chief signalman) had never seen one, and the only one I ever saw was being used as a decoration in the O club at Havannah, on Efate -- a black pennant with three red asterisks, three yellow question marks and three green exclamation points. I've been told that a squadron commander or a task group commander flies it when one of his subordinate commanders has done something particularly stupid." About our first ship visits: my first was the Yorktown, back in the summer of 1981. I was just about to turn eight, and remember that in the gift shop my parents bought me the Revell SCB-125 kit (which, conveniently enough, was a USS Yorktown release) and a tube of glue. Guess what I spent that evening working on in the floor of the hotel room? Later, I was puzzled when I read that a carrier named Yorktown had been sunk early in World War II -- my young mind reasoned that the Yorktown I had visited was the old ship that had been sunk, but raised and repaired. (I'll pause for a second while you all laugh.) In the two decades since I've visited over a dozen ships of all kinds, active and preserved -- some of them really cool (Kitty Hawk, Mount Whitney, NS Savannah), some of them kind of cute (Thomas C. Hart, Oliver Hazard Perry), some that are marvels of maritime preservation (Jeremiah O'Brien), and some that have really deep personal significance (Hornet). But there's something about your first one of anything that stays with you and remains very special, and CVS-10 will always have a special place in my heart.... jodie http://www.mindspring.com/~raisingirl/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 34) From: "Alan Mackechnie" Subject: Re: Ballard Search >> Bob Ballard is currently at Pearl Harbor looking for midget submarines. << Folk might be interested to know that an easier place to find Japanese midget subs is on Gullane beach, a few miles east of Edinburgh in Scotland! I think they were dumped there by the RN after testing. Although they aren't in the best of shape, you can walk right up to them at very low tides. I have a couple of photos taken a few years ago, if anybody's interested. Also, at Kylesku (in North West Scotland), there's a memorial commemorating the sailors who served on the British midget subs - it's where they did their training. Alan Mackechnie Hi Alan, Send em along to Mike Dunn (SMML Webmaster) & he'll post em on the SMML site when he gets a chance ;-) Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 35) From: "Timothy J. Barron" Subject: "Das Boot" - The Lifesize Model After viewing the director's cut of Das Boot on DVD, I learned that they built a real, working, operational U-boat for the movie. Does anyone know more to the story? Where is the sub today? Timothy J. Barron mailto:tjbarro@worldnet.att.net -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 36) From: "George J. Stein" Subject: Massachusetts My uncle served on the Massachusetts through the whole of WW-II. I know the Revell 1/720 is pretty crude. Have any list members converted one of the 1/700 Japanese manufactured (Tam? Has?) SD class or Alabama kit to the Mass? How hard would it be? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 37) From: "Timothy J. Barron" Subject: Inspiration - 1/350 CVN-65 Enterprise I noticed that several people on the list are building or interested in the 1/350 Enterprise. I'm not sure if these links have been provided or not, but these high-resolution photos of Mr. Kelly Quirk's model are simply inspiring. http://www.modelwarships.com/reviews/ships/cvn65/350/cvn65.html http://www.modelwarships.com/gallery/dio/KellyQ/index-kq.html Timothy J. Barron mailto:tjbarro@worldnet.att.net -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 38) From: Allan and Crystal Plumb Subject: Re: first ship From: shirley sachsen >> My other vivid recollection is when the battleship New Jersey made a port visit to NAS during the Vietnam War. << Hmm. That was my "first ship" too, at least as far as I recall. I just remember looking from the bow towards the two main turrets, and the crowds, the rest is rather foggy. Were you the one who...? (Like we'd remember any of that! :-) ) Allan Plumb -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 39) From: Peter K. H. Mispelkamp Subject: Gneisenau camouflage early 1942 Falk: Thank you for your response. While I do agree that some - maybe "most" - of the pattern was added after she was dry-docked - e.g. the turret tops, a close examination of photos of her underway during the dash all seem to indicate "dark" areas in the same general areas as the drydocked photo. Is this just erosion of old paint? Did the KM take the time to repaint her as they did the Scharnhorst? Unfortunately, if photos on of the Scharnhorst are rare, then photos of the Gneisenau in camo are almost non-existent! In any case, I would be willing to build the Gneisenau as she appeared in drydock just after the dash, but I would need more information than is offered in that one photo in Breyer's Schiffer book. Is there another source of images from this period? Does the Koop volume on the Scharnhorst class ships have some photos of the Gneisenau in this "drydocked" scheme? I know that Stern is a bust for this ship, and none of my other references - including Garzke and Dulin's Axis BBs of WWII - are of any use either. Sincerely Peter K. H. Mispelkamp -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 40) From: "DUCKMAN" Subject: ARLEIGH BURKE CLASS Does anyone market a 1/350th Arleigh Burke class U.S. destroyer? David -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 41) From: Fkbrown90@aol.com Subject: Signal flags I have received some replies to my query about signal flags. Some questioned the first one's arrangement of alternate blue and yellow stripes. I went out into my leaky old (and cold) barn and cleaned off the Shell license plate emblem carefully, and found that there are three each of the vertical blue and yellow stripes, with a yellow stripe "at the hoist", or the edge closest to the halyard. I had erroniously specified three blue and two yellow stripes. My apologies (and thanks) to those who took the time to investigate and were slowed by my inaccuracy. There are differences between the respondents, due to differently dated versions of the Visual Signal (flags) guides, but none were specifically for the WW1 era. Keep those cards and letters coming. The answer to the first aircraft carrier "quiz" will be coming soon. I now have some excellent reference material and will organize it for presentation in a few days (the hurrier I go, the behinder I get!). Franklyn -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 42) From: "Timothy J. Barron" Subject: Operation Dear Abby - Remember Our (US) Troops The holiday season is near and thousands of U.S. troops will be away from their families, stationed overseas. "Operation Dear Abby" is a program where those of us "back home" can remember them. You can send a simple card or letter of "thanks" or "happy holidays" and it will be delivered to a random member of our forces serving abroad. PLEASE remember and support our troops this holiday season, and send a simple card or letter NOW before things get too busy. http://www.uso.org/dear_abby.htm Operation Dear Abby APO ZIP Codes will be open for the holiday period (15 November 2000 to 15 January 2001). After 15 January 2001, APOs will close and mail should be returned to sender. All Dear Abby mail will be restricted to First-Class Letters/Cards 13 ozs or less - No Parcels. Operation Dear Abby allows individuals and groups of private American citizens to mail First-Class letters/cards to any service member at any of the designated APOs/FPOs listed below. Operation Dear Abby is designated to let our service members stationed overseas know that the "folks back home" care. Mail should be addressed to: ANY SERVICE MEMBER OPERATION DEAR ABBY (any APO/FPO listed below) (1) APO AE 09135 (Serves Europe and South West Asia) (2) FPO AE 09646 (Serves Mediterranean Basin) (3) APO AP 96285 (Serves Far East) (4) FPO AP 96385 (Serves Pacific Basin) An APO/FPO is a military zip code. The post office will take and deliver it for you (first class postage required). Timothy J. Barron mailto:tjbarro@worldnet.att.net http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~tjbarro/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 43) From: Fred Kennamer Subject: HMS Illustrious '40, SMS Seydlitz '16 Where can I find the camouflage pattern of HMS Illustrious at the time of the Taranto raid, 60 years and a few days ago? The new Raven book has a b/w elevation of her starboard side, but nothing of the port, which rumor has it is different. Also, it's hard to tell from this what the actual shades of grey are here. I'm rapidly getting to the point on my Heller Illustrious where it's time to commit. Also, what is the color of the exposed interior parts of the ship? What would be the appropriate colors for the SMS Seydlitz at Jutland? Thanks in advance, Fred -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 44) From: Craig R Bennett Subject: Re: Tarawa CV-40 Hi Mike For painting the Tarawa CV-40 in 1950 she would had been painted light gray. I don't have a copy of the master models paint catalogue tell what number that would be, but it was light gray. Her flight deck I've learned since building my Valley Forge CV-45 the flight deck in 1950 was bare wood with yellow numbers and markings. The numbers on the smoke stack were white with black shading.Her decks would have been dark gray. I use Polly S paints. A good source for color matching would be the movie the Bridges of Toko-ri with William Holden in 1954. Light gray was very reflective at the right angle and daylight it could seem blue in the distance. Craig -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 45) From: "Bruce" Subject: PBS PBS aired the program Hitler's U-boats on the west coast Tuesday night well worth the two hours Great war time footage, I've always known the German camera's are crafted like there U-boats to last a life time if they don't get below 250 ft in water thanks Bruce -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Bill Gruner Subject: NEW 1/1250 SCALE UPDATE Our new 1/1250 scale Update is now online on our website, and on the WARSHIP website. We are featuring some great prices on fine metal miniatures from Europe, both new and pre-owned, as the German Mark has really dropped against the dollar. Check out our large list on: http://www.pacificfront.com and: http://www.warship.simplenet.com Thank you, Bill Gruner Pacific Front Hobbies -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: BSteinIPMS@aol.com Subject: PT boat books for sale A friend of mine would like to dispose of the following: Bulkely, Captain Robert J., Jr., "At Close Quarters - PT Boats in the United States Navy", Naval History Division, United States Government Printing Office, Washington, DC, 1962. Hard cover, blue cloth with gold gilt, 572 pages, 7" x 10", photos, history, good condition with some wear, $55.00. Johnson, Frank D., "United States PT-Boats of World War II - In Action", Blandford Press, England, 1980. Hard cover, 160 pages, 8 3/4" x 11", photos, history, good condition, dust jacket with minor tears and chipping, $20.00. Chun, Victor, "American PT Boats in World War II - A Pictorial History", self-published, USA, 1976. Original collector's edition, soft cover, 80 pages, 8 1/2" x 11", photos, history, plans, tactical diagrams, fair to good condition, $25.00. Chun, Vic, & Joe Daileda, "The Expendables", IPMS/USA Update Volume 11, No. 1, Washington, DC, 1975. Soft cover, 24 pages (PT article spans 12 pages), history, plans camouflage schemes, fair to good condition, some browning, $10.00. He'd like to sell these as a lot for $99.00 plus shipping of your choice. Bob Steinbrunn Minneapolis Member, Nautical Research Guild Louisiana Naval War Memorial - USS Kidd, DD 661 The Mariners' Museum -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Ken Goldman" Subject: AIRANDSEAMODELS.COM In the latest issue of AIRANDSEAMODELS.COM http://airandseamodels.com HISTORY: · THE WAR IN THE MEDITERRANEAN - PART VII · THE NEUTRALITY PATROL · PHOTO HISTORY (AIR) - RECON PHOTOS IN THE MED THEATER (PART II) · PHOTO HISTORY (SHIP) - THE SINKING OF CRUISER TRIESTE · TASK FORCES - BATTLE OF EMPRESS AUGUSTA BAY WALK-AROUNDS: · LOCKHEED F-104C · LOCKHEED F-104G · LOCKHEED/AERITALIA F-104S ASA · USS MOUNT VERNON LSD39 MODEL-BUILDING: · 1/48 LOCKHEED F-104C · 1/48 HENSCHEL HS 129B-2 · 1/48 HAWKER HURRICANE IID · 1/72 FOKKER E.III (STRIP DOWN) · 1/72 LOCKHEED/AERITALIA F-104G (2 MODELS) · /700 IJN KAGA · 1/700 IJN TATSUTA (pre-Dreadnaught) · 1/700 IJN SHINONOME · 1/700 LE TERRIBLE (French super-destroyer) · MODEL GALLERY: 1/32 F-4E * 1/48 F-4E * 1/48 MARTIN GMB * 1/48 AVIATIK BERG D.I * 1/75 SIR WINSTON CHURCHILL * 1/35 SOUTH VIETNAMESE PATROL BOAT * 1/35 U-BOAT DIORAMA * 1/96 USS ENERGY MOS · VIRTUAL REALITY MODELS: 1/700 BUCKLEY-CLASS DE * 1/72 FOKKER E.V · ON THE MARKET: DOZENS OF PRODUCT REVIEWS, KITS, DETAIL SETS, DECALS, AFTERMARKET ITEMS, BOOKS ETC · NEWS FROM THE INDUSTRY OTHER: · BOOK REVIEWS · VIRTUAL PLACES: UPCOMING AIR-SEA SIMULATORS · LETTERS · BULLETIN BOARD GAMES: · MYSTERY PHOTO - AIRCRAFT - Win a 1/48 P-400 (Eduard kit) · MYSTERY PHOTO - SHIP - Win 1/700 IJN Weapon Sets (Tamiya) · TRIVIA QUIZ - Win a 1/700 naval decal set (GMM) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://www.smml.org.uk Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://www.tac.com.au/~sljenkins/apma.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume