Subject: SMML VOL 1066 Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2000 22:51:30 +1100 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Swedish Colours 2: Das Boot 3: Naval site 4: Re Carrier Islands on the right 5: USN CV's color 1950's 6: Re: Japanese port-islanded carriers 7: Re: Last LCS? 8: Re: HMS Illustrious '40 9: Re: First (and Only) Ship 10: Japanese Carrier Islands 11: Re: Chicago Blue 12: What did you do in the war daddy? 13: New Jersey 14: Re: AFOs and CAFOs 15: Re: US Navy signal flags 16: Re: Wisconsin and Iraq 17: Re: Waterling resin hulls 18: Re: 1/350 Arliegh Burke models 19: Re: making models waterline. 20: Re: HMS Illustrious '40 21: Need 1/144 equipment 22: Computer crash 23: another Naval Aviation question, Corsair Armada Ranger & USS Wasp 24: Re: Port side Aircraft Carrier Islands 25: Re: Combat Subs 26: Re: Das Boot -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Tom's "Holidays discount" offer 2: 1/700 TAMIYA INDIANAPOLIS and I-58 IN STOCK! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Cooper, Mike" Subject: Swedish Colours Dear SMLLies Well, great news! You know I posted a note about Swedish colours for WW2? Well, I did a little digging and came up with a very good contact via IPMS Stockholm. I'm sitting on a short Swedish order on the topic from just after the War, and if folk are interested I'll a. Try to do some notes on it for SMML b. Give Shane & Lorna & Richard & Dan text for APMA, IPMS(UK) and PSM Feedback please - I've got to get the text sorted out and checked for my own use, but if folk are interested I can easily share it. If not I won't force it into your mailboxes! Mike Cooper Reading UK (Bright and Sunny - both the Town and me at the moment!) PS. OK......its happened to all of us. We had a Club meeting last night. I could only pop in, but I decided to show my mate George, who's into IJN, my Kaibokan (a quick tidy up of the Pit-Road Ukuru only). Fine, but can anyone tell me why, as I was putting the nice secure little box into my bag before getting the bus, she took it upon herself to barrel roll out of my hand??!! Fortunately the resulting dismasting didn't lead to any actual breaks, as the brass masts were stuck with PVA, but YOYOYOYOY??? Anyway, she'll be out for a little display of "Subs and Sub-hunters 1939-45" at a wargames do on Sunday. If you're in the environs of Reading it's at the Rivermead Centre. I'm going to check out Skytrex's 1/700 Napoleonics and any artillery going. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Baumbach, Werner" Subject: Das Boot As far as I remember, for the movie a detailed model of the boat was build, that was operated by hydraulics to simulate the movements. It is a fairly accurate model of the boat. But I think it was never operational or went to sea. Here is a link to the movie studio, where the boat is on display: http://www.bavaria-filmtour.de/filmtour/boot.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Bonini S.r.l." Subject: Naval site Maybe many of you know it already, but there is a very interesting Italian website, completely about the Regia Marina in WW2, with lots of photos and informations. The site is in Italian and English, with rich historical news and comments - moreover, it is updated very frequently; for example, just now they have published a complete history of the British attack on Taranto, with exhaustive text and many unpublished pictures. In my opinion, definitely worth a visit and highly rcommended : www.regiamarina.net Greetings to all, Giusto Gallas / Italy -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "denis keegan" Subject: Re Carrier Islands on the right Those Japanese carriers with islands on the left were built that way so their air groups could work in combination with conventional, Right sided carriers and the A/C would not interfere with each others Landing and Takeoff patterns-good in theory but it proved to be an unnecessary complication. By the way, the later Seafires with the Griffon engine, which rotated in the opposite direction to the Merlin, DID have problems when Landing on and Taking off due to torque effects. They also had severe tyre wear problems and under full throttle would side step as they took off. This was solved by the introduction of Contra Rorating props. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Bob Reddy" Subject: USN CV's color 1950's To: Mic O'Toole "Task Force 50" Mic, I hope that I can help a bit about color of Tarawa CVS 40 in the 50's. The Tarawa CVS 40; Antietam CVS 36 and Leyte CVS 32 operated as CarDiv's out of Quonset Point, RI (across Narragansset Bay from Newport, RI). These CarDiv's consisted of the CVS and 8 DD's. They operated off the east coast looking for Soviet subs in 1954 - 56. The CVS's were all painted in the usual post war haze gray with black boot topping and funnel tops and radar. The decks were a darker blue gray with white deck markings and the number on both sides of the funnel. They were not modernized at the time. They still had the 8 deck edge 5"/38's and the 4 twin 5" turrets fore and aft of the Island. They had 2 quad 40 mm mounts on the bow and fantail. There were 2 quad 40's on the island, over the bridge and on the aft part of the island, and 1 on the structure just aft of the island. Antietam CVS 36 had an experimental angled flight deck fitted in 1953.She lost the 2 deck edge 5"/38's on her port quarter. The radar was upgraded but I don't have the details. Since she had the canted (angled) deck, she only had 4 arresting gear wires instead of the usual 12. I was serving on the Antietam in the mid 50's when she had a R/Adm who was ComCarDiv 14. The 8 DD's were all Fletchers with the No. 3 5"/38 gun house and the forward quint torpedo mount removed. They had 3'/50's in place of the wartime 40 mm's. They had tripod mainmasts. All were painted haze gray with the darker blue decks - they had noticeable black anti slip treads along the deck. The only DD I can id from my pictures is Caperton DD 650. The Antietam's Air Group contained 4 F4U's as fighter cover; also TBM's; AD-5 & 6's; S2F's (later S-2's); HUP's from HU-2 (UR markings) served as plane guards (Angels); and HOS-1's. They were initially painted in the overall glossy dark blue, but them changed to the new gull gray over white scheme in early 1956. There were a/c with both schemes serving with the same squadrons at the same time. Quite colorful and it makes for an interesting flight deck. To get a good idea of the coloring of the CV's get the movie "The Bridges at Toko Ri". I think the CV is the Princeton, but the colors are the ones in use in the mid 50's. Another good movie, filmed on the Antietam CV 36 was "Task Force" with Gary Cooper. Good deck, side and bridge shots. Hope you can get copies. Hope this helps with the Tarawa. Bob Reddy -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Mark Shannon" Subject: Re: Japanese port-islanded carriers The Akagi and Hiryu were built with their island structure nearly amidships on the port side. The purpose was to fit with the Japanese theory of operations, where the carriers would be paired in operational groups, so that the flight operations approach and circuit paths would not overlap. The idea was not a success. Part of the reason was the torque problems mentioned by others, but a big part was the air patterns caused by the hot stack gasses from the starboard-located horizontal stacks and the island structure itself creating disconcertingly turbulent conditions on the flight deck. The turbulence apparently magnified the torque considerations. When and if the Japanese would have rebuilt the two with starboard islands in time is something I cannot answer. Certainly the problem was recognized so that the Shokaku / Zuikaku pair were both given starboard islands. Mark -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "Edward F Grune" Subject: Re: Last LCS? Hello SMMLies I followed up on Mike's post about the last LCS being delivered to the D-Day Museum at New Orleans and came up with the following URL for the Times-Picayune's archives. http://www.nolalive.com/t-p/archives/index.ssf?/t-p/frontpage/341902031-1104national01.html Ed -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Dimi Apostolopoulos Subject: Re: HMS Illustrious '40 Fred, Photographic evidence suggests that there may have been two variants of the early 507A-507C Illustrious scheme. SMMLie Mike Eisenstadt has shown me photos that strongly advocate an identical portside scheme. However, a late 1940 portside view featured in Peter Smith's "Stukas over the Mediterranean" clearly shows a different scheme. I will send you a softcopy of that picture. Dimi -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "Steven P. Allen" Subject: Re: First (and Only) Ship The only ship I've ever seen personally or been aboard was the USN minesweeper Inaugural (#242). I remember unfortunately little, the visit having been some 27 years ago, now. I do remeber "playing" with the guns, imagining that I was fighting off Kamikazes or shelling an attacking tin can. I have since built a model of her from the Lindberg kit, though I have no pics for ensuring accuracy. FD's new plans of the class may cause me to revisit the issue. One last note: Inaugural was, alas, lost in the '93 Flood and broken up for scrap. The City of St. Louis acted criminally that year: they managed to save the nearby floating McDonalds (which, BTW, is now closing its doors and being scrapped). Steve Allen -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "Paul Fontenoy" Subject: Japanese Carrier Islands Japan's first carrier, Hosho, initially had a starboard-side island for the reason mentioned in previous posts-pilots tended to turn to port if they wished to go around for another attempt at landing because of the torque effects of their aircraft's engines and propellers. This island was removed early in Hosho's career as weight compensation. Subsequent Japanese carriers had flush decks without islands. When the reconstruction of Kaga and Akagi was planned in the early 1930s, it was envisaged that these two ships would operate together as a unit. Contemporary Japanese landing procedure called for aircraft to fly a pattern parallel to the carrier prior to making their approach. Since the two carriers would be operating abeam each other it was decided to fit their islands on opposite sides so that their aircraft could enter their respective patterns outboard of the carriers and also be "waved-off" outboard, thus minimising aerial collisions. Similar reasoning led to the construction of the new carriers Soryu and Hiryu with their islands on different sides, since they too were intended to operate together as a single unit. In practice the Japanese found that the tendency of pilots to turn to port in the event of a "wave-off" persisted, and that actual operating conditions were not as they had envisaged, so subsequent carriers all received islands to starboard, as in other navies. Paul E. Fontenoy Curator of Maritime Research North Carolina Maritime Museum *The opinions expressed here may not reflect those of my agency* -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "John Snyder" Subject: Re: Chicago Blue We've got a copy of those RAN instructions too. My educated guess is that "Chicago Blue" was in fact Navy Blue 5-N, since CHICAGO was in Measure 21. With the USN having major commands in Australia and shuttling ships in and out of Australian ports, there would have been large stocks of White 5-U and 5-TM (the blue tinting paste used to mix the USN purple-blues) on hand. So if those RAN ships look dark, my bet is that they're essentially wearing Measure 21 using "Chicago Blue." John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys http://www.shipcamouflage.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "chenyangzhang" Subject: What did you do in the war daddy? Hi all This is about my grandfather who was in the Royal Air Force during the war. He joined up as a specialist (he worked as a draftsman before) and worked on radar in its early stages. One of his early postings was in Cornwall, a rural area where for some time he started duty at midnight. To get to his station he had to walk through a graveyard. The RAF offered him a commission but having such good knowledge of RAF officers he declined. He went through various postings before being transferred across the channel to join a team evaluating German radar installations. On the way there his ship ran over an oyster mine and sank. It was also carrying a great deal of camouflage paint most of which ended on top of him and some of it in his stomach and lungs. He spent 6 months in hospital after this. On leaving the hospital he continued in the RAF and worked on radar and the first lightning supersonic fighters. He also did a lot of work with the cancelled TSR2. However, as a result of his work he contracted leukaemia and was invalided out. When I knew him as a small boy he was in constant pain and so was a pretty foreboding character (though I didn't realise it at the time). He was a fantastic draftsman and used to draw steam locomotives for recreation. He died in 1972. Chris Langtree -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Shirley Sachsen Subject: New Jersey >> My other vivid recollection is when the battleship New Jersey made a port visit to NAS during the Vietnam War. << >> Hmm. That was my "first ship" too, at least as far as I recall. I just remember looking from the bow towards the two main turrets, and the crowds, the rest is rather foggy. << aha!! so YOU were the one who kept me from doing the same thing! :-) I wanted to go all the way to the pointy end and look over the side, but my dad said I wouldn't see anything anyway and the line was too long... >> Were you the one who...? (Like we'd remember any of that! :-) ) << ah.... no, I wasn't.... as much as I wanted to prise the ribbon set off the turret :-) all I got out of this was the welcome aboard pamphlet, which, woefully, has not survived multiple moves.... that, and an abiding respect and warm spot in the heart for this ship. saw her again on her way to mothballs when at Pier 32 in SF a few years ago. got better pictures then and more welcome aboard pamphlets, which I'd really like to compare with the earlier one if I still had it. I agree with Jodie's sentiments: that one might experience several ships of various import, but the first one is the one that captivates. this feeling is not just limited to ships, by the way... s -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: Dimi Apostolopoulos Subject: Re: AFOs and CAFOs Mike, I have done a quick on-line search on PRO's web site. You can go straight to their Catalog page at: http://catalogue.pro.gov.uk/ListInt/default.asp If select to do a search and use ADM as the Lettercode you get a complete list of ADM documents. I went into ADM 182 where there is a nice classification of AFOs and CAFOs. it was then easy to identify the specific ADMs for the document I listed a couple days ago. Please double check as you go through their documents. Other ADMs of interest are #212 and #239 which contains confidential book? orders. I have some information that various CB.3098 documents within ADM 239 contain camouflage information, but have no idea which ones... Dimi Here is the updated list: FLEET ORDERS TYPE/NUMBER/YEAR SUBJECT AFO 245/40 Chrome pigments for paints - ADM 182/102 CAFO 1446/40 Identification ... - painting of horizontal surfaces -ADM 182/129 CAFO 290/41 Non-chocking matt paints - ADM 182/130 CAFO 302/41 Camouflage of H.M.Ships - ADM 182/130 CAFO 1518/41 Painting of air-sea rescue boats - ADM 182/131 CAFO 1555/41 Camouflage painting - ADM182/131 CAFO 1983/41 Camouflage of H.M.Ships - Policy Reports - ADM 182/131 AFO 4544/41 Admiralty Fleet Order Volume - Instructions - ADM 182/108 CAFO 2515/41 Camouflage in boot-topping area - ADM 182/131 CAFO 121/42 Non-chalking matt paints - ADM 182/132 CAFO 679/42 Sea-going camouflage designs for destroyers and small ships - ADM 182/132 CAFO 31/42 Attached to CAFO 679/42 (Diagrams) - ADM 182/132 CAFO 784/42 Mountbatten Pink - Formula - ADM 182/132 CAFO 1112/42 Camouflage of sea-going ships - Policy reports - ADM 182/133 AFO 3435/42 Chrome pigments for paint - ADM 182/111 AFO 3807/42 Matt non-chalking camouflage paints - ADM 182/111 CAFO 2077/42 Painting of air sea rescue boats - ADM 182/134 CAFO 2146/42 Dark medium tone camouflage designs for sea-going ships - ADM 182/134 AFO 2106/43 External and camouflage painting - ADM 182/114 AFO 4224/43 Specifications, liquid samples and shade cards of paint - ADM 182/115 AFO 5633/43 Camouflage inside bridge coastal force craft - ADM 182/116 CAFO 699/44 Camouflage of minesweepers - ADM 182/137 CAFO 1151/44 Stowage and camouflage of minesweeping davits - ADM 182/137 AFO 3113/44 External and camouflage painting - ADM 182/118 CAFO 2070/44 Stowage and camouflage of minesweeping davits - ADM182/138 CAFO 2269/44 Standardization of camouflage of H.M.Ships - ADM 182/138 CAFO 558/45 Standardization of camouflage of H.M.Ships and vessels - ADM 182/139 AFO 3545/45 External and camouflage painting of H.M.Ships - ADM 182/122 CAFO 1575/45 Standardization of camouflage of H.M.Ships - ADM 182/140 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: US Navy signal flags Here's page on the US Navy web site that explains all the signal flags they use. http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/communications/flags/flags.html Hope this helps. Rusty White Flagship Models - Photo Etched Details for Warships http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ We now accept Visa & MasterCard world wide via Pay Pal "Yeah I want Cheesy Poofs" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Wisconsin and Iraq >> I don't think the Iraqis gave a toss whether the cruise missiles came from Wisconsin or a barge moored off Basra. Likewise if the Japanese had been told to sign the surrender on the President Warfield they would have done so. << You're probably right. After all they were surrendering to remote controlled surveillance a/c by that point. Cruise missiles take the "up close and personal" touch away from combat, don't you think? :-) Rusty White Flagship Models - Photo Etched Details for Warships http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ We now accept Visa & MasterCard world wide via Pay Pal "Yeah I want Cheesy Poofs" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Waterling resin hulls >> Does anybody have any suggestions as what is the best way to remove the lower hull - by hand with a fine bladed saw or very slowly with a power saw of some sort? << Find someone with a good table saw with a plywood blade and get medieval on its a##. That's the only way I know to do the job. It works very well. Rusty White Flagship Models - Photo Etched Details for Warships http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ We now accept Visa & MasterCard world wide via Pay Pal "Yeah I want Cheesy Poofs" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: 1/350 Arliegh Burke models MB Models makes a 1/350 FLT2 Arleigh Burke (AKA Winston Churchill). Wonderful model and well worth the money. Rusty White Flagship Models - Photo Etched Details for Warships http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ We now accept Visa & MasterCard world wide via Pay Pal "Yeah I want Cheesy Poofs" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: SantMin@aol.com Subject: Re: making models waterline. I do almost all my models as waterline, it's my preference. With a resin kit I simply cut a piece of wood that I can place under some part of the hull that will keep it with the deck perpendicular to the table and I tape it in place with masking tape. I mark a line a bit lower than the waterline and then run it through the bandsaw. The little below the waterline allows some of the bottom color to show (I don't usually model ships modern enough to have a boot topping) and take care of the thickness of whatever I use for "water" on that particular model. Cheers, Bob Santos -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: Randy Short Subject: Re: HMS Illustrious '40 Fred, At Taranto she was in medium gray, ostesibly 507B. Flight deck was dark gray. She painted up in camo after Taranto. The pattern in Alan's book is the same on both sides after repairs at Norfolk. The port was a little different when bombed. There is a view of the port in Peter Smith's "Luftwaffe at War-Stukas Over The Mediterranean 1940-1945", page 20. Barnes and Noble carry it for about $15. Sorry to take so long to get back to you. Randy Short -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: JRKutina@webtv.net (John Kutina) Subject: Need 1/144 equipment Are there other suppliers than "H&R" that supply cast metal guns, anchors, ladders, etc. Please advise. Thank you, John - Seattle -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: "Chris Hughes" Subject: Computer crash The PC I normally use to store my emails and newsgroup stuff has crashed - I'm hoping to get it looked at tomorrow... I'm now using the super dooper PC we bought for my daughter's schoolwork, so I have to "confirm" my address book etc, which I'd saved to disc... I can't recall not answering any emails of late, but if anyone on the list is expecting a reply from me on any subject, please send me a "test post" so's I can begin to rebuild my database! Oh well, a trip to the archives this weekend I think!! Chris -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: "Chris Neel" Subject: another Naval Aviation question, Corsair Armada Ranger & USS Wasp Howdy - Please indulge me in another Naval Aviation question if you will: Is there a 1/48 scale kit for the USN SH-60B Seahawk helicopter - or are there any conversion kits to make one from an existing HH-60 Blackhawk kit? All that I have seen have been 1/72 scale kits... Does Corsair Armada have any plans to re-release the 1/700 USS Ranger? I anxiously await the upcoming USS Wasp (CV-7) release for next year. Will not make the same mistake of "waiting for the right moment" and will purchase this one outright as soon as released.... Speaking of USS Wasp's - Is there or soon to be released a kit of the new class of Helicopter Carrier USS Wasp LHD-1? Seems I rememeber something about Revell releasing one? Thanks cn -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24) From: GKingzett@aol.com Subject: Re: Port side Aircraft Carrier Islands I remember reading somewhere that when they developed their carrier operating doctrine, the IJN came up with the idea that their carriers were to operate as pairs, presumably, Akagi and Kaga (Amagi? was to have been Akagi's twin, had she not been fatally damaged in that earthquake), Hiryu and Soryu, and Shokaku and Zuikaku. Then each pair would operate in formation abeam of each other on parallel courses; when flying off a coordinated strike, I believe the idea was that the sortie circle of the port carrier would circle clockwise, the starboard carrier's planes would circle counterclockwise. The location of the islands of the respective ships was to facilitate this. It must have been an interesting idea which didn't work. By the time they were built, Shokaku and Zuikaku both had starboard islands. On the other hand, you can see some of the underlying doctrine demonstrated at Midway, where the 4 carriers were found in a box formation, but looked at another way, they were arrayed as two pairs. Didn't USN doctrine early in WW2 deal with this same problem by considering each carrier as an individual, separated by enough distance that there was no interference between formations? (also no mutual CAP support either, but that is another story.) Gary -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 25) From: Ives100@aol.com Subject: Re: Combat Subs >> Anyone know how to reach this company? I am interested in their 1/350th scale submarine models. << John- I got my Combat Sub kits of the USS Nautilus (SSN-571), USS Halibut (SSGN), USS Albacore (fleet sub) and Russian Golf II through Bill Gruner at Pacific Front. These kits are highly detailed and are cast in a hard, gray resin. Not much in the way of casting residue to remove. The Halibut & Nautilus even have ballast tank flood vents under the hull. My only comment is that the fleet sub USS Albacore could really use some photoetch rails, etc. The other kits overall are rather good. (PS I still owe you the drawings of Russian subs; I am going through all my old backlog materials to find them - Patience!) Tom Dougherty -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 26) From: Ives100@aol.com Subject: Re: Das Boot >> After viewing the director's cut of Das Boot on DVD, I learned that they built a real, working, operational U-boat for the movie. Does anyone know more to the story? Where is the sub today? << No, they did not build an operational U-boat. A full size interior set that could be tilted, rolled and flooded was built, and fitted with a highly accurate rendition of U-boat instruments and fittings. They used German U-Boat veterans as consultants for the interior, and to train the actors to dive through the hatches. The conning tower was also built as an exterior set that could be doused with water and wind machines. Also built on top of a barge was a false Type VII U-boat hull, that was towed for exterior "full boat" shots, such as the shots in the U-boat pens and the departure and arrival from St. Nazaire. This same hull was subsequently used in the first Indiana Jones movie "Raiders....." Shots of the U-boat in storms, etc. are large scale R/C models, built by German members of what is now the SubCommitee. I do not know the whereabouts of the various movie set pieces at present. A similar exterior strategy was used in "The Hunt for Red October" when a Typhoon class SSBN hull was built on top of a barge for exterior shots. Tom Dougherty -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Tom & Carolyn Harrison" Subject: Tom's "Holidays discount" offer ATTENTION "SMML" MEMBERS. We are at the end of your 15th year of operation and after having another great year we are offering our Holiday discount again this year. The discount applies to our etched brass product line only. You can take a 5% discount for each $25 of brass ordered up to a 25% discount for an order of $125 or more, that's a savings of over $30. Again this discount only applies to etched brass sets. In addition, all orders exceeding $125 will receive a second 20% discount certificate that can be used anytime next year. We will also ship orders exceeding $125 free, anywhere. You can see most of our brass sets on our web site: www.tomsmodelworks.com We do accept Visa or MasterCard, you can e-mail your order in or fax/call your order to 408-777-TOMS This is our way of saying thanks, for without your support we would not be in business. We have several new sets in the mill for next year but we are always open to suggestions. Hope to meet many of you on the Hornet next April. Tom -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Bill Gruner Subject: 1/700 TAMIYA INDIANAPOLIS and I-58 IN STOCK! We now have the all-new Tamiya 1/700 plastic kits of USS Indianapolis (appears to be '45 fit....$25.00), and the all-new tooling IJN submarine I-58 w/ Kaitens...$10.00. Both are excellent kits, you will not be disappointed. The all new WSW 1/700 resin kit of SMS armored cruiser Blucher should be here in 10 days....$69.00. Thanks, Bill Gruner Pacific Front Hobbies http://www.pacificfront.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://www.smml.org.uk Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://www.tac.com.au/~sljenkins/apma.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume