Subject: SMML VOL 1072 Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 23:25:18 +1100 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: PT Boat Kits & References 2: 1/72 kit reviews 3: Re: E Boats 4: NVA trucks 5: Re: More Carrier Trivia 6: weird ship scales 7: E-Boat Data 8: Free card model of HMVS Cerberus 9: Marmite 10: French Destroyers 11: French Destroyers 12: Re: 1/72 kit reviews 13: Re: 1/72 scale BOATS 14: Re: WW1 U-boats using mercury for ballast 15: Fan Publications 16: Marmite? Pfuiii! 17: Re: in search for fighting ships 18: Re: USS Thomas E. Hart 19: Carrier Trivia -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Infomation 1: SMALL WARSHIP SIG -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: NEW MESSAGE BOARD ON MODELWARSHIPS.COM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: GrafSpee34@aol.com Subject: PT Boat Kits & References Enrico If you are looking for a nice PT boat kit in 1:72nd, I recommend the Revell kit of the Elco " PT 109 ", or the Airfix Vosper. I've heard some complaints about Revell's kit, however, I have seen several excellent models built from this kit. The proof is in the pudding, as we say. The Elco PT is a bigger, and to my mind, more attractive vessel. Lambert & Ross assembled an excellent reference book which cover both RN and USN PT boats. All the information you will need to superdetail either of these kits is in there, including tons of photos and a lot of outstanding technical drawings. A superb documentary that puts most other Naval reference books to shame. Alas, the world still awaits a photo etched set for the PT, E-Boat and Vosper. As for E-Boat references, there is one really good book, still in print and (at least until recently) available from BN.com: Lakowski's "Reich und Kriegsmarine Geheim". Lots of good dockyard shots of the early boats, inside and out. Paul Beaver's book on coastal craft of the KM can still be had for about $10 used, and is the best value at photos per dollar. Don't expect too much on the later boats from any of these references. As anyone who has attempted a late E-boat will attest, information on the bridge "cockpit" interior and the forward gun tub is, at best, sparse. Looking at the Airfix hull again... something might be done with it, but not without a razor saw, sheet styrene and a lot of epoxy putty. Blech, its going back in the box. Dave -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "denis keegan" Subject: 1/72 kit reviews The Airfix Vosper is quite good; however the bridge is about 6 scale inches too narrow according to John Lambert's plans. This is no big deal if you build it "Out of Box" but if you want to add details such as Voice pipes and a good throttle quadrant etc, then you will possibly want to make a new shelf and side details from scratch. In fact it is almost worth using the kit parts as templates and building a new Bridge from 15 thou card. The wind deflector also can do with a little (?) work. Allied Coastal Forces is,as usual, the Bible for this and any other Coastal Forces project. Have fun--I did. Denis K -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "denis keegan" Subject: Re: E Boats German Coastal Forces by MJ Whitley does have some excellent photo references but is sadly lacking in plans. The only boat plan shown is of a type which never went into production--No E Boat was ever armed with that type of 30mm cannon,or so I am assured by an ex-Uboat commander who's Type XX1 was in dock awaiting those guns when WW11 ended. Denis K -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: BSteinIPMS@aol.com Subject: NVA trucks >> Doesn't sound quite right. The VN supply line didn't use trucks in South Vietnam let alone mass them in a park of any sort. Trucks would have to use roads - easy targets and where would they gas up or unload their cargo? Then one 16" round would have cost more than the entire truck pool. << With the greatest of respect, Kevin, I have to disagree. As an American pilot flying UH-1C helicopter gunships in the (former) Republic of Viet Nam from October 1967 through October 1968, and during the Tet Offensive which occurred during this period, I've personally observed dozens of North Vietnamese Army trucks, PT-76 tanks, and other vehicles coming south on the so-called Ho Chi Minh trail west of Dak To. The trail in this area was a two-lane paved highway, at least the portions of it which ran through Laos and Cambodia before turning into South Vietnam, and these vehicles ran during daylight hours, with impunity, because they knew we couldn't touch them outside the South Vietnamese border. And also because we "weren't there" to lay our ordnance on them: President Nixon said so. Bob Steinbrunn Minneapolis Member, Nautical Research Guild Louisiana Naval War Memorial - USS Kidd, DD 661 The Mariners' Museum -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Paul Fontenoy" Subject: Re: More Carrier Trivia My candidates would be the Imperial Russian Navy's Black Sea Fleet "gidrokresiesera" IMPERATOR NIKOLAI I & IMPERATOR ALEXANDR I, which operated with ALMAZ and a fourth vessel, ROMINIA, rated a "gidroviatransporti" as a carrier strike force from early 1915. Paul E. Fontenoy Curator of Maritime Research North Carolina Maritime Museum *The opinions expressed here may not reflect those of my agency* -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: Kenneth Perry Subject: weird ship scales I am also building one of those "weird" 1/72 scale ships (USS Cape St. George). One good thing about this scale is that my old Hasegawa SH-60 fits perfectly on the helo deck. I'd love to build one in 1/48, but my garage wouldn't be able to handle it! :) Ken -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "Leslie Brown" Subject: E-Boat Data In addition to the book by Harald Fock, I have found the following references useful:- * Warship Profiles - German Schnellboote (E-Boats) by Dr G Hummelchen which includes a coloured drawing of the S80 series in a mottled camouflage together with hull cross sections. * The German Navy In World War II by Robert Jackson which includes a colour profile of S14 and coloured drawings of S142. * German Coastal Forces Of World War Two by M J Whitley which includes a line drawing of an unidentified boat. All of the above include a number of photographs of varying quality but one of the best set of pictures I have seen is on the video 'Stukas Of The Sea - German Speedboats In World War II' by The Big Little Picture Company. Regards Les Brown -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "David Hathaway" Subject: Free card model of HMVS Cerberus Paper Shipwright is pleased to announce the availability of it's first paper ship model - available now for free download. Paper Shipwright will specialise in paper models of ships from 1860 to the early 1900's. All will be in 1:250 scale. The model is of HMVS Cerberus, a breastwork monitor launched in Egland in 1870 as a guardship for the State of Victoria in Australia (before Australia existed as a federal state). The only survivor of her type, she is currently a rusting breakwater in Port Phillip Bay near Melbourne and efforts are being made to save her. Technically revolutionary, she was the first ocean-going warship designed without masts and sails, the first warship to pass through the Suez Canal and her turrets-fore-and-aft layout influenced warship design until after WWII. She was armed with 4 10"/25cm muzzle-loading guns in 2 twin turrets and later fitted with some smaller caliber weapons. She served as an ammunition hulk during WWI and was sunk as a breakwater in 1926. The model is 1:250 scale, is 27cm long, is printed on 5 sheets of A4, has 560 pieces and includes instructions and assembly diagrams. The model is available for FREE download. Go to www.papershipwright.freeserve.co.uk and follow the pointer in the catalogue to the Cerberus page. There is are linksat the bottom of the page to - a page of photographs of the model, a page of photographs of the real ship and the download page. It comes with a track record - a half-finished version helped me win 1st prize in the Miscellaneous category at the 22nd International Model Exhibition at RAF Halton, UK and David Okamura has won two prizes at IPMS shows with his beta-build version (so far!). Peter Crow has also helped and is building a photo journal of the assembly of his beta-build. Thanks to both David O and Peter for their help. The second Paper Shipwright model, the Swedish Monitor Sölve is at theprinters and will be available very shortly. Paper Shipwright is a trading name of David Hathaway. David Hathaway David@PaperShipwright.freeserve.co.uk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: Graeme Martin Subject: Marmite Steve Wiper talks about Marmite in New Zealand. A similar vegetable extract in Australia is called Vegemite. Australians love it, been bringing their kids up on the stuff for years, Perhaps an aquired taste for visitors, like we Australians have a hard job with the way you Americans make coffee or can't as the case may be!!!!! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Clifford Franklin Subject: French Destroyers Chris, I don't have a definitive list, but the following is what I have on pennant numbers of French contre-torpilleurs during WW2. The last digit denotes the place within the flotilla, the first number or numbers denote the flotilla number. The data comes mostly from various articles in Warship International. 1st Flotilla: Lion (X11, later X12), Vauban (X12, later X11), Aigle (X13) 3rd Flotilla: Guepard (X31, later X72), Valmy (X32), Verdun(X33) 4th Flotilla: Tigre (X41), Lynx (X42), Panthere (X43) 5th Flotilla: Maille Breze (X51, later X91), Tartu (X51), Chevalier Paul (X52), Vauquelin (X53) 6th Flotilla: Mogador (X61), Volta (X62) 7th Flotilla: Vautour (X71), Gerfaut (X72), Guepard (X72), Albatros (X73) 8th Flotilla: L'Indomptable (X81), Le Malin (X82, later X102), Le Triomphant (X83) 9th Flotilla: Maille Breze (X91), Cassard (X92), Kersaint (X93) 10th Flotilla: L'Audacieux (unknown), Le Fantasque (X101), Le Malin (X102), Le Terrible (X103) 11th Flotilla: Bison (X111), Epervier (X112), Milan (X113, later X111) I also have the following allocations for the Melpomene class torpilleurs: 11th Flotilla: Branlebas, La Cordeliere, L'Incomprise 12th Flotilla: La Pomone, Bombarde (T122), L'Imphigenie 13th Flotilla: Baliste (T131), La Bayonnaise, La Porsuivante (T133) 14th Flotilla: Bouclier, La Flore, La Melpomene If you give me a couple of days, I can track down some of the allocations for the other torpilleur classes, but my data for these is fragmentary, so if anyone knows these please post them. I will also see if I can track down the colours of the funnel bands involved. cheers Cliff Franklin -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "John Rule" Subject: French Destroyers >> Does anyone have any information on the composition and markings of destroyer squadrons for pre war and early war torpilleurs and contre-torpilleurs? None of the web-sites seem to have this information and I can't seem to locate it elsewhere. << I don't know if it's the information you are looking but a good article on the Mogador and Kleber Classes by Robert Dumas was published in Warship #30. The article shows different liveries including overall light grey, dark hull light grey upperworks. The hull numbers were large, being initially white shaded to the right and below in black and latterly changing to brick red. The two ships in question had a blue band on their after funnel. The two ships, Mogador and Volta, had tricolour markings on the side of Number 2 and 3 turrets (2 and 4 for Volta from the beginning of 1941). These two destroyers formed the 6th Destroyer Division in the 2nd Light Squadron. Hope the above provides some help. John Rule -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "Bob Pearson" Subject: Re: 1/72 kit reviews >> I'm considering making myself a gift for Christmas, and I'd like to buy a 1/72 kit of a WW2 PT Boat. My choice is at the moment restricted to Airfix E-Boat and Vosper and to Revell PT 109 and Vosper '70, I've already read on this list something about the E-boat kit: does any of you have build one of the others? Are there any reviews available on the web? << Hi Enrico, We have had full build articles of all the kits you mention at Internet Modeler within the last year. Not sure of the exact issues, but one way to do it is to go to: http://www.internetmodeler.com and try the search function. Another way is to type in the following URL htt://www.internetmodeler.com/nov99/contents.htm and then change the month to try other issues... 1999 issues are listed xxx99, while 2000 issues are xxx2000. Regards, Bob Pearson Managing Editor / Internet Modeler http://www.internetmodeler.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Marc Flake Subject: Re: 1/72 scale BOATS I've built the Airfix Vosper, the Revell Vosper and the Revell PT 109. The two Revell models were easy, straight-forward builds. However, the Vosper was never British. It was a British-built boat sent to Russia. I made a Soviet flag and painted her an overall dark gray. The Airfix Vosper eventually builds out to a nice looking kit. LOTS of parts and the small arms look more accurate than the Revell kits' machineguns. The hull comes in four pieces, IIRC. There's a bottom piece, two sides and a stern. I had trouble getting the sides to come together properly at the bow and fit uniformly all around the top of the bottom piece. That's all I can remember off the top of my head. Marc (Who'll be off-list for three days as the family makes our annual holiday trek to grandmother's house for Thanksgiving!) Marc -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: Drees Joe Subject: Re: WW1 U-boats using mercury for ballast FWIW I have heard the same story. Was printed in the Milwaukee Journel a few years ago....Joe -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: do22@ltsn.adfa.edu.au Subject: Fan Publications Hi SMMLies, Before launching into this question I will briefly introduce myself. My name is Ken Bowes and I am principally an aircraft modeller living in Canberra, Australia (please forgive me). I have been lurking on SMML for about six months but I am now going to come out of the shadows. My question is in reference to Caroline Carters announcement that the Fan Publications book on Illustrious and Implacable Class Carriers has come in stock. I am curious about this book and before I order it I would like to know a bit more about Fan Publications. Mainly I want to know if they publish in english language or are for example Japanese or European. My modelling interest is in FAA Aircraft, so my interest in such a book would be for photos of the embarked aircraft and details such as deck layout, colours etc for display bases for my models. I would appreciate anyone who knows of this book or the quality of previous publications from this company to pass on a brief opinion. Thanks, Ken Bowes -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: Shane Weier Subject: Marmite? Pfuiii! Steve Wiper comments: >> I dont know how I forgot about this, but this is a warning for all Americans wishing to visit New Zealand. Stay away from this horrid stuff called Marmite. Kiwi's like to put it on just about any food stuff. Its thick, like pitch, and almost black, and is got to be the absolute worst taste on the planet. I personally think it is left over tar patch from the age of sail, and Lester Abbey swears it is the same used greasing truck axels! So if someone try's to get you to eat this stuff, hold your crucifix up in front of you! << Marmite is a weaker imitation of Vegemite. You'd better stay away from Australia then, because our kids are started on vegemite with their teething rusks ! You'll be happy to know that when Shane (listmaster) and Lorna (list Mistress) visited they spread sensible quantities on their breakfast - enough to hide the bread entirely Shane (the other Shane) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: Chris Rogers Subject: Re: in search for fighting ships >> One thing that always kept me from buying the Airfix E-boat was the weird 1/72nd scale. It's ok for planes, but ships should stick to common "ship" scales. Now, a styrene E-Boat in 1/48th scale-- would be something worth firing up the molding machines for. Make it an early version, not the one that has a skullcap for a bridge, throw in a photoetch set & some snappy decals and that kit would be a winner. << My friend may be you need bigger glasses to build the ships in 1-72. 1-72 is the most common scale in Australia and we enjoy that scale and get tremendous credit for all our shows over the country but if you build in any scale surely it is for challenge of getting it right and the love of building ships not to have some attitude joker bagging your work coz its 1-72 or any other scale maybe you should come to a regatta and take a looksee at our work we will welcome you with open arms even though you think our scale is for Aircraft chris Oz -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: sanders_talmadge_fc1 Subject: Re: USS Thomas E. Hart Hello Mike, I believe you are talking about the Thomas C Hart FF-1092 named after admiral Thomas Charles Hart. I served on the USS Thomas "C" Hart FF-1092 from 1989 to 1993, She was a Knox class frigate,435 ft long, @23ft beam. powered by two 1200 lb Westinghouse boilers, one fixed pitch screw (25ft diameter). armament was MK42 mod 11 5"54, ASROC launcher forward. one MK15 block 0 CIWS aft. I believe she was commissioned in 1973, and we turned her over to the Turkish Navy in 1993 after the USS Saratoga had the accident with the Turkish Fram destroyer and the SEA SPARROW. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: Minadmiral@aol.com Subject: Carrier Trivia >> The Royal Navy operated the first carrier task force. It was World War One, the body of water was the North Sea, and the target was the zeppelin sheds at Tondern, located at the mouth of the Elbe. << Wrong! Zero for two now! Chuck Duggie WoodenWalls Listmeister Naval wargamer, amateur naval historian, and ship modeler -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Infomation -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Leslie Brown" Subject: SMALL WARSHIP SIG Hello All! I dare say that by now you were beginning to think that nothing was going to happen as regards a new SIG. Despite both E-mail and written correspondence to IPMS(UK), there has been no response or mention in the IPMS Magazine. Even without this, I think we now have sufficient numbers to formally register the SIG and this I have asked them to do. We wait to see what happens! In preparation for the creation of the SIG, I have been giving some thought as to a newsletter. As the vast majority of members have access to the internet, I would suggest a simple website. This would permit the easy use of colour photographs as well as making communications with overseas members much easier. I would then be able to print out just a very limited number of copies for those who do not yet have access to the internet. The website would also provide opportunities for some items not covered in the normal newsletters - for example a Noticeboard which could include News, Wanted & For Sale and Questions & Answers. This could be updated much more frequently than the issue of a newsletter. I have had a little experience with creating a website so it is my intention in the next few weeks to create a sample site which would include a number of items but probably not the first issue of 'Escort'. If you have any comments, items you would like to see or items to contribute, please let me know. I will let you know the address of the website when it is ready. Regards Les Brown -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Timothy Dike Subject: NEW MESSAGE BOARD ON MODELWARSHIPS.COM I thought I'd let you all know about the latest update at ModelWarships.com. It is a banner free message Board, not quite as fast as boardhost, but part of my hosting package for the site, so I might as well get some use out of it. There are currently no blocked IP's there, and all are welcome to participate. Regards, Timothy Dike Webmaster and Editor ModelWarships.com http://www.modelwarships.com/index1.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://www.smml.org.uk Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://www.tac.com.au/~sljenkins/apma.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume