Subject: SMML VOL 1075 Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 01:09:16 +1100 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: H.M.S. Cambeltown 2: Prinipas de Asturias 3: Marmite 4: White Carrier Equipment 5: Re: My late Fathers part in the War! 6: Marmite/Vegemite 7: Re: PT Boats 8: Re: 1/8" - !/96 Scale parts 9: PT Boat Reference 10: Carrier Battle Groups 11: Carrier Air Wings 12: Re: Glencoe WWI Subchaser 13: China gets second Sovremenny class 14: Ships operating air-stuff 15: Re: Spray Booth 16: Re: Pearl Harbor Film 17: Re: HMVS Cerberus 18: Midget Subs 19: Re: Classic Warships Warship Pictorials 9 and 10 20: Pearl Harbor Movie...OH NO! 21: Arosa Klum 22: Re: T Class 23: 'Salvaging the Monitor' show on cable TV in OZ 24: Stop and SMML the Flowers 25: Card Modelling 26: Revell Zerstoerer Z1 (kit 0305, (c) 1977) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Infomation 1: Re: SMML meeting Washington DC 2: December IPMS Hornet/SMML? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Kriegsmarine chip set #1 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Wannsee" Subject: H.M.S. Cambeltown Hi All, I have a Revell Cambeltown, can anybody tell me anything about this model, and can I do anything with it as it is a little on the crude side. (2) Mines, can I find any drawings or details on WW1 mines on the net? Thanks in advance Martin Foley mailto:naval@wannsee.co.za -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "O'Connor" Subject: Prinipas de Asturias SMMLies, Is anyone aware of a resin manufacturer interested or announcing the release of this Spanish Navy ship in 1/700 scale? I've never read anything about a kit ot the ship. Does anyone have suggestions for a detailed set of drawings/instructions/photos for her? I'm seriously thinking of a scratchbuild project and would like to do some preparation. The Spanish Navy website isn't much help, and I don't read Spanish as well as I would like to. Of course, as other scratchbuild projects of mine have gone, someone will release a kit of the ship just as soon as I scratch one. Same as the armor scratch jobs I did years ago in 1/35 scale- Swedish "S"tank and British Scimitar light scout tank, both released within a year or two of my completing the projects!!! Thanks for any help. Bob -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Malcolm N. Waite" Subject: Marmite Dear All We're to blame for "Marmite" a beef extract spread! It's one of those things your given as a child and told it will "do you good" I would check on a bottle in the supermarket to see who makes it but the memories may make me throw up. Malcolm Waite Liverpool -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Michael John Zwierko Subject: White Carrier Equipment For those who may not know already, the U.S. Navy is slowly repainting all carrier based/land-based GSE white (traditional yellow is going by the wayside). Mike -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Erwin Van Deynze Subject: Re: My late Fathers part in the War! Hi, John stories bring back also a number of stories of my parents, both of them were also kids during the war and have told several stories over the years. Being in an occupied country (Belgium) they are somewhat different. My mother's stories focus more on the hunger and general misery during the occupation. She frequently told stories about them going to ask for food with the local farmers. Her father had been send to Germany to work in the factories there, so her mother had to raise the children alone with almost no financial backing. She tells also stories of the columns of fleeing Germans in '44, she particularly tells the story about an elderly German soldier who took a rest at their house, weeping, homesick and miserably tired. Another story she told is about the bombing of a train in the beginning of the war, they could see the bombs falling from their backyard. Next off course come the stories of the repression, false accusations and backstabbing after the liberation. Not only was her dad still in Germany when they were liberated, so that all income was completely cut off, but him being in Germany (albeit against his will, all young men were ordered...) was enough for some people to accuse them of collaborating... My fathers story are quite different, more of a boys adventures during that turbulent period. He's dad had the luck of being too young to go to fight during WW1 and too old during WW2, also they had only two children to feed. He also tells stories of horrors he's seen. One particular was about a strafing attack on a horse-drawn carriage. He and his dad were collecting weeds for the rabbits when this carriage drawn by beautiful white horses passed by. My dad wanted to have a look but his dad forbid him as at that moment some planes flew over, they turned back and strafed the carriage, my dad was thrown in the ditch by my grand dad who duck on him to cover him completely. He never told anything of the horses after the attack, only that if his father had allowed him to go to the horses, he almost certainly would have been killed. In that attack the carriage driver and a woman with her baby were killed. The woman was passing by with her pram, took her baby and covered in another ditch, were they were both killed. Apparently the pram was untouched... No mention of hunger from him, except that his father regularly went poaching and smuggling and brought back stories of farmers guarding their fields with shotguns... His story of the liberation was also completely different. He was 'adopted' by an English soldier who gave him candy. He thinks is was because he looked a lot like that soldier's son. The soldier promised to write, but after a couple letters is stopped. Even now when he tells that story he still wonders if that soldier was killed or just stopped writing, and every time he hopes it's the last... I believe someone said that war brings both the best and the worst out of us... when hearing these stories I can only agree with that... Erwin being in a somewhat melancholic now... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Mark C Krumrey" Subject: Marmite/Vegemite Greetings SMMLies: I have followed this tread and am compelled to respond. I visited Australia twice, once for two weeks in 1977, and then again with my bride in 1979. I developed a taste for Vegemite, and brought home about a years supply. My friends thought I was nuts to eat such a substance, but I did enjoy it, spread on buttered toast. Now if there was a source here in Wisconsin for Vegemite and Steak and Kidney pies...............Makes my mouth water just thinking about it. Mark Krumrey New RIchmond WI -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: ALROSS2@aol.com Subject: Re: PT Boats >> Is that "Allied Coastal Forces of World War II, Volume I & II" from the Naval Institute press? << Volume 2, which covers Vospers and ELCOs. Volume 1 covers the Fairmiles, HDML, and the WWII 110' SC (SC 497 series). Al Ross -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: AandMBlevins@gateway.net Subject: Re: 1/8" - !/96 Scale parts Hello, One source to check A.J.Fisher, Inc., 1002 Etowah Avenue, Royal Oak, Michigan 48067, Phone 248-541-0352. Many of the models and fittings are for Great lakes freighters. Al Blevins -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: GrafSpee34@aol.com Subject: PT Boat Reference >> Is that "Allied Coastal Forces of World War II, Volume I & II" from the Naval Institute press? << Yes, and if you are interested in US and RN torpedo boats of WW2, vol 2 is a must. If you don't have a copy, buy, beg, borrow or steal one. Fabulous! For the amount of research and work the authors put into it, the price is ridiculously cheap. For additional references, Victor Chun's book on U.S. PT boats is good too, since it has nice original Elco factory drawings and good close up photos. Also the USN museum at Fall River MA had at one time a very nice inexpensive softcover with several PT plans in it called "The Mosquito Fleet", I think. Squadron published an "In Action" photo booklet on PT's but I haven't seen it. Dave -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: LUCASNER@aol.com Subject: Carrier Battle Groups Hey everyone, I'm looking for information concerning the makeup of carrier battle groups in four eras, the 60's, 70's,80's and 90's. I'm looking for specific types, not necessarily names. For example, a CV with 2 Virginia's, 2 C.F. Adams, 1 Knox, 1 Suribachi...etc. I make scenarios for Harpoon and am looking for this info. Thanks all Dave Lueck -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: LUCASNER@aol.com Subject: Carrier Air Wings This is along the same lines as my task group question: I'm looking for specific numbers of aircraft by type in carrier air wings from the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s. Especially interested in the 60's and early 70s. How many F-8s, A-1, A-4, etc. on the 27C carriers, Forestalls, etc... All help will be kindly repaid in favorable wishes...haha Thanks, everyone Dave Lueck -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: PT191@aol.com Subject: Re: Glencoe WWI Subchaser Rod: The Glencoe kit is of a 110 foot SC -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: doug brown Subject: China gets second Sovremenny class Greetings, For those tracking news on Russian navy and China's developing naval capability, news today on delivery of second Sovremenny class destroyer to China. The first was delivered 12/25/99, and the second today -- guess it's time to get out that Shanghai Dragon Sovremenny and re-flag it! doug http://news.excite.com/news/ap/001125/15/int-russia-china-destroyer November 25, 2000 MOSCOW (AP) - Russia turned over to China a powerful destroyer ordered by the Chinese navy in a shipyard ceremony Saturday that featured fireworks and parades by sailors from both countries. It was the second of two destroyers ordered by China in 1997 in a $1 billion deal, one of Russia's largest arms deals in recent years. The first was turned over last December and deployed in the East China Sea fleet. The second destroyer, a model of the Sovremenny class, was built and unveiled at a St. Petersburg shipyard, the ITAR-Tass news agency reported. The 7,000-ton ship can carry supersonic anti-ship missiles and anti-aircraft missiles, ITAR-Tass said. Speaking at Saturday's ceremony, St. Petersburg Mayor Vladimir Yakovlev and China's ambassador to Russia expressed hope that such cooperation would continue. http://www.vny.com/cf/News/upidetail.cfm?QID=138892 (excerpt) The vessels have 7,000-ton displacement and are armed with ship-destroying supersonic missiles that can be launched from two facilities. They are also equipped with the "Shtil" ("Calm") anti-aircraft defense system. Two twin 130-mm guns are mounted on the vessels to strike targets at sea or on land. Links to news on first Sovremenny delivery 12/99: 12/24/99 http://www.taipeitimes.com/news/1999/12/24/story/0000016555 Russia to deliver cruise missile destroyer to China http://www.milparade.com/2000/37a/05_01.shtml 12/28/99 http://dailynews.muzi.com/ll/english/54173.shtml -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "Phil M. Gollin" Subject: Ships operating air-stuff How about, Lord Thomas Cochrane, flying kites from the 32-gun Frigate Pallas, in 1806, to spread propaganda leaflets over the French Coast. Otherwise, if you're talking ACTUAL aircraft and ACTUAL action, then really the Cuxhaven Raid is the real benchmark, Christmas Day 1914. However, to be accurate the Greek Navy gains the credit of the first aeronaval battle in February 1913, when they dropped some small bombs (probably converted grenades) on units of the Turkish Fleet, and other minor actions took place between then and the Cuxhaven Raid. The first British "Carrier Task Force" on a permanent standing was formed in January 1916 as the "East Indies and Egypt Seaplane Squadron", comprising the Ben-my-Chree, Empress, Anne and Raven II. However, the Russian Black Sea Fleet seaplane carriers had started operations almost a year earlier, but although successful accounts vary as to actual actions and successes, although they were highly thought of within the fleet itself. By the way I have to "export" Marmite, "English Mustard" and other delicacies to my oldest brother who lives just outside of Philadelphia as the Yanks have no idea of the finer things in life. Some of the Mustard gets passed on to his wife's father who is a survivor from the USS Lexington, obviously a connoisseur, Phil (P.S. my spell checker tries to change "Marmite" to maritime, so it can't be ALL bad). -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Spray Booth >> I am thinking about buying a unit from Micromark who sells two varieties, a 20" or a 30" model. Does anyone own one of these? What have your experiences been? How do you deal with long hulls such as the 1/350 Titanic? << Charles, IMHO spray booths are way over priced for no more than they are. I built one that can handle almost any size model myself using a cook top hood vent I bought for $10.00 at a garage sale. It's the same type vent hood probably found in your own home. I just added plywood sides and placed it against the wall in my work shop. I attached a dryer vent pipe to the hood and ran it to the window. When I need to spray paint, I just open the window and place the vent pipe so the window holds it in place. Once finished, I just close the window. It works equally well on hot and cold days. Simple and easy. Altogether, I had (maybe) $25.00 invested in the whole thing and it vents out spray like a champ. The booth is approximately 30" long and accommodates larger ship models. Be sure to get a vent hood that has a vent on top, not one that just circulates the air. I hope you figured that part out already. I would try that before sinking a ton of money into a spray booth. Rusty White Flagship Models - Photo Etched Details for Warships http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ We now accept Visa & MasterCard world wide via Pay Pal "Yeah I want Cheesy Poofs" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: Allan and Crystal Plumb Subject: Re: Pearl Harbor Film >> Went to the movies today and saw previews for the Pearl Harbor movie due out next May. [...] << Specifically Memorial Day IIRC. >> Anyone else see this trailer and can share some more? << I particularly liked: -- The apparent Spruance-type parked outboard of USS Arizona in the aforementioned bombs-eye view. -- The definite Spruances in a destroyer-nest getting bombed (explosions all around). (At least one Spruance, not sure about the rest.) -- The Japanese fighter strafing civilian autos that came out of its dive at about 3 (that's "three") feet off the road. Lot's of sad and/or uplifting music and shots denoting the meaningfulness of it all. I'm not committing to watching it, yet. Allan Plumb (OTOH, we saw it as a trailer with "Unbreakable". Not quite as powerful as "Sixth Sense", but a very interesting, thought-provoking movie. Two thumbs up from us.) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: RhinoBones@aol.com Subject: Re: HMVS Cerberus Would like to express my appreciation for David's announcement concerning the intention to publish card stock models of the wonderful 1870-1900 era ships. Thank you. Look forward to purchasing (and downloading) these challenging kits. Regards, RhinoBones -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: "Ned Barnett" Subject: Midget Subs I came across a neat looking book on WW II Midget Subs at Barnes & Noble - it's printed in the UK, and I was going to get it until I they told me it would be $55 USD. Ouch. However, it had a plan sheet inserted in the back, and was really tempting. FYI Ned -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: Keith T Bender Subject: Re: Classic Warships Warship Pictorials 9 and 10 Hey There SMMLies, Just received the new issues #9 & #10 from Classic Warships today. They are GREAT! If you have the other 8 issues then you will be wanting to add these to your collection. Trust me on this one! Very nice job Steve, Bravo Zulu! KTB -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: Michael John Zwierko Subject: Pearl Harbor Movie...OH NO! Like Tom, I recently saw a trailer for the new Pearl Harbor movie at a theater this weekend. I was really enjoying the different clips up until a scene that got me a bit worried. The trailer shows the initial stages of attack and one scene in particular shows three ships moored side by side getting bombed and sufferring what appeared to be actual explosions. Now, the part that worried me is that the ships getting bombed in this sequence looked like SPRUANCE CLASS DESTROYERS! I know that the USS MERRILL and two other decommissioned Spru-cans were moored together in Pearl recently but PLEASE tell me they didn't actually set real explosives on these ships!! Would someone in the know please shed some light on this and provide an answer either way? I know that those decommissioned Spruances were going to be scrapped anyway, but to see them blow up on the big screen (especially the MERRILL) for some Hollywood production makes me a bit angry...I hope I was just imagining things. Mike P.S. Please forgive me if this has been discussed before...I have been busy this past semester and have not had much time to scan this digest on a daily basis. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: "wblad" Subject: Arosa Klum AROSA KLUM was the final incarnation of the US troopship CANTIGNY, completed at Hog Island, Pennsylvania, for the US Shipping Board in 1920. Original displacement was 7,430 tons, dimensions were 448ft x 58ft. She was turbine driven and with her single screw made 15 knots. She was bought by the American Merchant Lines (United States) and refitted to carry 80 passengers in 1924, at which time she was renamed AMERICAN BANKER. She was transferred to the United States Line in 1931 and sold to the Antwerp Navigation Co. (Belgium) in 1940 and renamed VILLE D'ANVERS. She was sold in 1946 to the Isbrandtsen Line (Honduras) and renamed CITY OF ATHENS. Sold to Panamanian Lines (Panama) in 1948 and renamed PROTEA. Sold to the Arosa Line in 1952 and renamed AROSA KLUM. She was completely refitted with greatly increased passenger capacity and her displacement rose to 8,929 tons. Her first voyage as AROSA KLUM was from Bremen to Halifax on March18, 1952. "Arrested" for debt at Plymouth, England, in December, 1958, she was broken up at Ghent in 1959. The Arosa Line was founded in 1952 as the Compania Internacional Transportadera of Panama, but was really Swiss owned. Their first sailing was for Halifax via Zeebrugge and Southampton was by the newly reconditioned AROSA KLUM. In 1958, the company experienced financial diffuculties and was later declared bankrupt and the AROSA KLUM was attached by customs officials to satisfy the demands of creditors and was then broken up. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: Chris Rogers Subject: Re: T Class I have a 1-48 fully operational T class HMS Telemachus P321 on t boats there is only one source thats an absolute mine of it its called The T Class a classic british design by kemp chris Oz -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: "Simon Wolff" Subject: 'Salvaging the Monitor' show on cable TV in OZ Hi you all.. For those with cable TV in Australia Sunday 3rd December 9.30 National Geographic channel will be showing the documentary, 'Salvaging the Monitor'. It goes for one hour. It was also on today, but did not know it. Might suggest to keep an eye out for a series of documentaries that were on, last weekend I think, about the raising of the U-534 and discovery of the I-58. National Geographic and Discovery channel seem to have a few of programmes on about subs at the moment. Simon Wolff -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24) From: "Bob Pearson" Subject: Stop and SMML the Flowers Sorry, but that line was just so good I had to use it as a title I just picked up the L'Arsenal 1/400 late version Flower and was given the WEM 1/700 Buttercup and Bluebell (thanks guys ... you know who you are) ... in addition to starting work on them I have also been going through my Flower references and am now curious as to a couple of items. 1/ what is an acoustic hammer? These are mentioned time and again as if we should already know what they are, but I have yet to see what it does described 2/ I just finished watching "The Cruel Sea". I taped it years ago and lack the credits, so what ships portrayed HMS Compass Rose and HMS Saltash Castle? 3/ are there any photos of the four Flowers that were completed by the Germans as PA1-4. Regards, Bob Pearson Managing Editor / Internet Modeler http://www.internetmodeler.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 25) From: "Nigel Ward" Subject: Card Modelling How many of you reading this have an inkjet printer attached to your computer? If so why don't you give card modelling a whirl? I know that this form of ship modelling is popular in Europe, and you can now download quite a few FREE models to try before you buy ( incidentally I have no connection with any makers etc.). If you are curious why not try a simple one at first, the advantage being that if you make a c*** up, you simply print a new sheet, and destroy the evidence!! Try www.digitalnavy.com You can download a 1/700 HMS Dreadnought, although this may be a bit small for a first model. The German 1st. WW torpedo boat is good, but I would recommend the Admirable Class Minesweeper (1:250). This is actually the USS Caravan (AM 157). All you really need, if you are already a modeller, is some card to feed your printer. I use 180 gsm card stock. If you want to be a bit more adventurous, try http://digilander.iol.it/zioprudenzio/fokker.html , you can download 1:400 models of Graf Spee and Scharnhorst, although, having no instructions, you need good references. Finally, for one of the best free models, ( posted a few issues ago on SMML ) is David Hathaways Paper Shipwright site http://www.papershipwright.freeserve.co.uk here you can download a 1:250 model of HMVS Cerberus, that is not only superb quality, but comes complete with full english instructions, and sketches. This is not a beginners project, though! Commercially available models are to suit all tastes, and of ships that never will see the light of day in plastic form, and in such a scale that resin would be impossible ( 1:200 Scale CVA-60 Saratoga, Yamato? ). You may be a bit doubtful at first, but give it a try. Dave Ward -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 26) From: thorstenwahl@t-online.de (Wahl, Thorsten L.) Subject: Revell Zerstoerer Z1 (kit 0305, (c) 1977) Hi gang, recently fetched some boxes from my parentīs place that I kinda forgot about (and I moved out a LOONG time ago ;-) I found aforementioned kit. Obviously a present from the old school days, when ships didnīt interest me nearly as much as they do now. Now my question: from the looks of it Iīd guesstimate the scale to be 1/300th. Quality is basic, so Iīm wondering if this kit is worth keeping/starting/bothering with? Also looking for info on those ships (class, yard, resources, aftermarket sets) Thanks for listening Thors -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Infomation -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: SantMin@aol.com Subject: Re: SMML meeting Washington DC I'd love to drive down for that, however, there are not enough weekends in December, everyone is already taken up. Hope you have a great time. Cheers, Bob Santos -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Ned Barnett" Subject: December IPMS Hornet/SMML? I think I'll be in Alameda that evening at an office party - and I'd desperately like to escape. So I'd like confirmation that there will be an IPMS Hornet/SMML meeting on the Hornet on December 8th - and if so, can I come by? Thanks Ned -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Keith Butterley Subject: Kriegsmarine chip set #1 Hi, I now have these in stock. 20 colours plus profile camouflage scheme of T35 and Tirpitz 1942/43 Canada $36cdn + $4cdn shipping USA $24us + $3us shipping UK 18GBP + 5GBP shipping INT'L $24us + $7us shipping I have had no email capability from Nov 17 to Nov 24. If you have been trying to contact me and I have not yet replied, please re-submit your message. Happy modeling Keith Butterley http://www.warshipbooks.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://www.smml.org.uk Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://www.tac.com.au/~sljenkins/apma.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume