Subject: SMML VOL 1077 Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 23:31:42 +1100 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: Korean Turtle Ships.. HELP? 2: Liberty Ship Model 3: Re: homemade spraybooth 4: Pearl Harbor Movie 5: Re: White Carrier Equipment 6: Re: French destroyers 7: Re: Allied Coastal Forces 8: Re: what did you do in the war daddy 9: Re: Card Modeling 10: Re: Pearl Harbor 11: Re: Acoustic hammer 12: Pearl Harbor, etc 13: A Polite Request For Mr Ross & Mr. Lambert 14: Re: Campbeltown 15: Re: Korean Turtle Ships 16: Re: Zhong Shan 17: Zhong Shan 18: Re: Bob's dad in Antwerp 19: 4.7" Royal Navy Guns circa 1898 20: Skywave 1/700 MTBs 21: Make Your Own Marmite 22: "Anger" over Spruance destruction 23: R Class Destroyers 24: Massachusetts Colors 25: Re: Massachusetts Colors 26: South Africans 27: Re: Spray Booth motors 28: Re: Efficiency 29: Pearl Harbor Movie...OH NO! 30: Re: HMS Campbeltown 31: liners new web site 32: Liberty Ship Model 33: RAN Colours 34: Re: Massachusetts Colors 35: Looking for Bismarck / Yamato -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Warship Books mini vacation -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: ALROSS2@aol.com Subject: Re: Korean Turtle Ships.. HELP? >> Does anyone out there, know of any books/references/articles in any publication on 'Korean Turtle Ships' from 15th Century naval warfare?????? << Try the following U.S.Naval Institute Proceedings: #778, p. 66; #600, p.205; #614, p.455; #496, p. 691; #653, cover Al Ross -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Edward F Grune" Subject: Liberty Ship Model Tom Dean wrote: >> What he asked me to do is to find a minature or very simple kit of a Liberty. He was hoping to find one around 8" to perhaps 10" that he could work with. This would take him out of the scales he use to. I can't find anything that fills the bill. He lives in an apartment and has no real modeling experience so couldn't handle a larger kit. If anybody knows of something that would be appropriate please let me know. << Tom -- Look up the Pitroad AK99 Bootes kit. Its 1:700 scale and that puts it right into your friends size-range. It's styrene -so he won't need any "special" tools or have resin dust in the apartment. I believe it to be a basic Liberty ship configuration. Some people have expressed concerns with the kit's shear-line. But that shouldn't stop your friend. PacFront should carry the kit. If he wants to go whole-hog and detail the kit - Toms's Modelworks has a brass Liberty Ship detail fret. While you're looking at Tom's website, he did have at one time a resin & brass Liberty ship. If your friend wants to tackle resin & brass thats a possibility. Ed Mansfield, TX -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Douglas Simpkin Subject: Re: homemade spraybooth For those interested in making their own spraybooth, a reasonable description of a booth from a model railroader is available at http://www.discoverynet.com/~bhi/spraybth.htm. He uses a plywood box exhausted by a Dayton mod. 4C447 shaded pole blower (i.e. a type of squirrel cage, presumably spark-free exhaust fan). From www.Grainger.com this fan lists for $63.45 and should be able to move 265 cfm. You could replace one or more of the plywood sides with plexiglas to improve lighting, although this would soon be covered with overspray! Doug -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: GrafSpee34@aol.com Subject: Pearl Harbor Movie .... yeah but does Gwyneth Paltrow expose her breasts? Hi, No, but to bring it back on topic - she may wear a bikini ;-) Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: sanders_talmadge_fc1 Subject: Re: White Carrier Equipment Hello Mark, There is another reason for the color change of Yellow gear from yellow to white. The navy is moving away from lead based paints and I think the lead content of yellow paint is significantly higher than white. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Paul Jacobs" Subject: Re: French destroyers The only caveat with Cliff's list is that you must be very careful about using these. You see, the problem is that ships were switched from one flotilla to another, sometimes more than once during their lives, and their rigs and other ID markings changed as well. This occurred more frequently between Sept. 1939 and November 1942, as ships were lost to various causes and flotillas were reconstituted, but also happened sometimes pre-war as assignments changed. Thus it can be difficult to pin down numbers to a specific date. Cliff's numbers appear to fit the Sept. '39 time frame, which for the most part remained until the Armistice. However, as a number of ships were lost prior to the Armistice, the flotillas were reorganized afterwards. A ship might have one number in white with black blocking up to Feb. 1940, when the colors were changed, then red/black, then later change flotillas and have a different number entirely. Early in the war a number of these ships (Atlantic fleet only ?) also had either their number 3 or 4 gun removed to improve seakeeping ability. Some were sunk in that condition; some appear to have had the guns restored after the Armistice. Mainmasts were usually removed or reduced to flag poles. After the Armistice, some changes were made to the AA fits, the no. 1 funnel caps heightened on several ships, and the red/white/blue neutrality stripes painted onto the 2nd and 3rd gun houses on all ships. Some ships landed one set of torpedo tubes. Some of the Atlantic ships were painted with dark grey hulls and light upper works. Some had false bow waves painted on. Those few survivors that joined the Free French after the Armistice or in '43, had significant changes done to their armament. As a result of all these changes, it is nearly impossible to be certain that you can accurately depict any one ship after Sept. '39. Adding to the confusion are photos of some of these ships with different numbers, but the uncertainty as to whether they are correctly identified. For example, I have photos with "T-12" in white/black lettering labeled MARS, but one in a Japanese publication that has "T-71" in red/black also labeled MARS. Is the photo misnamed? I don't know. So far as I know, all commercially made models of these ships depict them in their early to late 30's rig. The safest thing would be to number your model in a white/black pre-war number. Prior to early 1939, the "T" was not used. Merely a number. And early in their careers, the ships were often in different flottillas than were listed by Cliff. Hopefully the new book on the BOURRASQUE Class ships by Marines Editions will shed light on thes items and help to improve our knowledge of these ships. Paul Jacobs -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "denis keegan" Subject: Re: Allied Coastal Forces Contact Simon at simon.kooter@vanwell.com He may still have some in stock. Tell him Denis sent you. It wont get you a discount but at least he will know you are serious! Denis K -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Pieter Cornelissen Subject: Re: what did you do in the war daddy Like Erwin's parents, my parents grew up in occupied Europe. Both were unfortunate enough to be 11 year old kids in major V1 (Fi 103) and V2 (A4) staging areas. Both have memories of listening anxiuosly to the sound of pulse jets and rocket engines. If the engine stopped (which happened quite often, V1's had a failure rate of 20%) the missile would fall and explode 'somewhere', which might or might not be on their heads. My father had the added disadvantage of living on a street that was used to ferry supplies of alcohol and liquid oxygen for the V2's. He has vivid memories of running away more than once for attacks by Typhoon/Tempest aircraft used to chase the supply trucks and of waking up one morning and seeing a Typhoon fly past below his attic room window (which was about 15 meters above the street). Both have rather traumatic experiences of the famine and SS/Sicherheitspolizei terror of the last few months of the war in Holland. The lack of medical supplies made my father lose hearing in one ear after and ordinary and usually easy treated infection. My mother was an unvoluntary witness to an execution of members of the Resistance by the SS. Pieter Cornelissen Delft, the Netherlands -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: Bill Rowe Subject: Re: Card Modeling Card models are a possible resource for detailing other models. A few days ago someone was asking about schnellboat(spell?) references. About 40 years ago I built a schnellboat from card stock. Didn't know what it was, and she is long gone. The Digitalnavy Dreadnought may become the color guide for a 1:1250 model. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "Joe Costanzo" Subject: Re: Pearl Harbor Okay, IMHO the fact that they are putting Spruances and Knox's in 1941 bites, big time. But ignoring that, I have no doubt the movie will stink. I don't care if they CGI every ship present down to the last rivet, Brookheimer can't make a decent movie to save his life. Hell, I'm a car buff and I didn't like Gone in 60 Seconds. In my book, you have to work REAL hard to screw up a car chase movie! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: Les Pickstock Subject: Re: Acoustic hammer >> I believe it was an electronic device designed to detonate mines by sending a pulse through the water. Further the deponent knoweth not. << The Acoustic hammer was designed to explode acoustic mines by generating sound that would preceed the ship and explode the mines. This was achieved by the simple expediant of mounting a heavy jack hammer in a box attached to an A frame at the bows. The well known firm Kango provided the tool which could be lowered and raised when required I don't know if the Kango hammer was the heavy electric sort still available to day or the air-driven version which utility workers find so delightful at 7.00am. Of course the down side to this device was it announced its presence to any U Boat Hydrophone operator who wasn't stone deaf. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: Burl Burlingame / Pacific Monograph Subject: Pearl Harbor, etc The explosives set off on the anchored Spruance destroyers actually did very little damage to the ships. Essentially, it was a deck-mounted fireball that looked spectacular but there was no explosive power to it as it wasn't contained. They just hosed the ships off afterwards. There's a good chance the ships will be "backdated" with CGI by the time the movie comes out, but don't hold your breath. As for the planes flying low, that's a plot point. The A6M5s and the P-40Ns play hide and seek IN BETWEEN buildings. I know, I know, but it's in the script. For more background, go to: http://starbulletin.com/2000/04/10/features/story1.html and http://starbulletin.com/2000/04/29/editorial/special.html For a short story on Ballard's failed expedition to Pearl Harbor, go to http://starbulletin.com/2000/11/24/news/story8.html a hui hou! Burl Pacific Monograph, 1124 Kahili Street, Kailua HI 96734 808-263-6087 buzz@aloha.net A historical interpretation company. Visit our web sites at http://www.PacificHistory.com/ and http://www.PacificHistory.net "He's supposed to be dead. This is vexing. I am terribly vexed." -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Minadmiral@aol.com Subject: A Polite Request For Mr Ross & Mr. Lambert >> Is that "Allied Coastal Forces of World War II, Volume I & II" from the Naval Institute press? << >> Volume 2, which covers Vospers and ELCOs. Volume 1 covers the Fairmiles, HDML, and the WWII 110' SC (SC 497 series). >> PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE................................................................ (grovelling, begging, and sniveling on the floor!!) When do we get volumes 3 & 4??????? Vol.3- Steam Gunboats and Everything Else Not In 1 & 2 (and perhaps Fr. SU, etc?) Vol.4-German, Italian, and Japanese??????????????????????? Chuck Duggie WoodenWalls Listmeister Naval wargamer, amateur naval historian, and ship modeler -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: Craig R Bennett Subject: Re: Campbeltown Hi Guys When building either the Ward or Campbeltown kit of Revell I found that the bridge needs modification. The upper platform is seated above the rest of the bridge with a gap that would have to be filled with a piece of Styrene. Craig -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: Steve Sobieralski Subject: Re: Korean Turtle Ships When I was a kid my father would bring his copies of the Naval Institute Proceedings home for me to look through. I don't know why I remember this, but sometime in the late 1950's, my best guess would '58, '59 or '60, there was a picture of a Korean Turtle Ship on the cover, and I believe an associated article in that issue. Exactly what the article dealt with and to what detail I don't know, but I do vividly remember that picture on the cover. You might try contacting the USNI, or there are some libraries that archive back issues of the magazine. Steve Sobieralski -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "Kerry L. Jang" Subject: Re: Zhong Shan >> Originally named YONGFENG. Built in Japan in 1910 by Mitsubishi. Carried eight guns of various calibers. Length: 62.1m Beam: 8.9m Speed: 13.5kts Crew of up to 140 men. Renamed ZHONG SHAN in 1925. Sunk in action with Japanese forces on the Changjiang River, March 1938. << The ship was named after Dr. Sun Yat Sen (in Mandarin it comes out as Sun ZHONG SHAN) the founder of the Chinese Republic, and the Kuomintang (or Nationalist Chinese). His party was later headed by Chiang Kai-shek, who after losing the mainland to the Communists fled to Taiwan (as the Republic of China). Its interesting that both Communists and Nationalists agree that Sun Yat-sen as a hero for helping to overthrow the Qing (Ch'ing) dynasty after it had become so corrupt and ineffectual. Dr. Sun was a trained as a physician and surgeon in Japan, and lived in Yokohama's Chinatown for many years. He was born and raised in Southern China. That's his portrait you see on some of the kit box lids. Cheers, Kerry -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: "wblad" Subject: Zhong Shan The Western spelling of Chinese words has changed over the years, but here is what "Conway's All the Worlds Fighting Ships: 1906-1921," has listed for this class. YUNG HSIANG class gunboats displacement: 780 tons normal dimensions: 216ft oa, 205ft pp x 29ft 6in x 8ft machinery: 2-shaft VTE, 2 watertube boilers, 1350ihp = 13kts. Coal 190tons armament: one 4in, one 12pdr, four 3pdr, two 1pdr complement: 108 YUNG HSIANG built Kawasaki Kobe, launched 30/3/12, scuttled 26/9/37 YUNG FENG built Mitsubushi, Nagasaki, launched 1912, sunk 24/10/38. YUNG HSIANG was scuttled at Tsingtao, refloated by the Japanese and returned in 1945, served as Taiwan gunboat armed with two 3in, eight 25mm, six mg til c. 1959. YUNG FENG was renamed CHUNG SHAN in 1934, she was sunk off Kinkou in the Yangtse by Japanese aircraft. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: Erwin Van Deynze Subject: Re: Bob's dad in Antwerp >> An interesting sidelight to the email from Belgium. After D-Day my Dad's ship spent time in Antwerp unloading (a Liberty ship, and as I remember, more than one trip). He told us that every night he would put on an overcoat, fill all the pockets with canned food, and visit a family he somehow got to know. They never forgot him and stayed in contact for years after the war. << That must have been november '44 and later. Monty didn't see the strategic value of Antwerp (the first and only undamaged port to fall in Allied hands) and decided to have a go at the Rhine first, wich as we all know by now was just 'one bridge to far'... This allowed the Germans to reinforce their positions on the Scheldt estuary. These weren't cleared until beginning november with the attack on Walcheren, wich was also HMS Warspite her last action in the war... The minute the estuary was cleared, minesweepers entered it immediately followed by the first Liberty ships. In the meantime Hitler did see the value of Antwerp and launched an all-out attack with V-weapons on Antwerp (in fact, Antwerp had more V-2 launched on her than any other city, including London..) and also don't forget that Hitlers ultimate goal of the Ardennes offensive was Antwerp... There are many stories I've heard and read over the years about Antwerp: the story of the liberation itself (mostly thanks to one man who showed British armoured troops an unguarded way into the city and harbour, and offcourse the leader of those troops who was willing to listen to a civilian making gestures to stop on the side of the road..) the resistance who effectively sabotaged the demolition of the quays... the stories of the atrocities caused by the V-2's... I gladly add your story to that list. greetings, Erwin -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: "nickbalmer" Subject: 4.7" Royal Navy Guns circa 1898 Hello, Can anybody tell me what mark of 4.7" gun was used by the Royal Naval Brigades ashore during the Boer War? Does anybody know where I can find drawings of the original gun? Regards Nick Balmer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: "Fernando, Yohan" Subject: Skywave 1/700 MTBs I just picked up the old Skywave 1/700 MTB kit the other day (the one that includes the nice little German E-Boats) and and was wondering specifically for the US and British MTBs included in kit, what types of boats are they supposed to be? The British ones are just labeled as Vosper MTBs and I can't find any English-language labels for the US ones on the box. I assume there were different types of Vosper boats used by the Brits, and that the US boats would be either Elcos or Higgins.... Thanks, Yohan Fernando -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: "John Rule" Subject: Make Your Own Marmite Take 1 bottle of Soya Sauce and pour a liberal amount onto a plate or saucer and shove it in the back of your fridge next to all the other preserved culinary experiments. After a year or two test it with your finger nail, with a moderate pressure. It should have the consistency of cream cheese. If it does it is ready. Add salt to taste. John -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: Michael John Zwierko Subject: "Anger" over Spruance destruction Mr. Morrison, My reason for expressing anger at the thought of Spruance class ships being used as props in a hollywood movie is based on principle alone. I have no problems with war movies...if I did, I probably wouldn't be in the military. I would, however, rather see a ship quietly cut up or used for some useful (IMO) purpose, even if it is as a gunnery target for our active ships. To blow a piece of warfighting history up for cheap hollywood effects is what does not sit well with me. Spruances have been my favorite ship type for a while and I was fortunate enough to have been attached to the USS Merrill for a short period. In that respect, call it sentimentality (for lack of a better word). At any rate, you can disagree all you want and I respect that. I am just not the type of person who agrees with the use of our former warships as movie props. Mike -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: "Chris Drage" Subject: R Class Destroyers Hi Leigh, Shane wrote: >> AFAIK, there are no kits of the R class DD. In 1/700 your best bet is to pick up the Tamiya (Ex Skywave) HMS Onslow & perform surgery on it to get an R class DD. I also recommend White Ensign's O/P class DD PE fret & their range of RN accessories (I have them for my future Q class conversion) << Shane is absolutely correct of course but there is a lot more to do apart from that. You do need to have Nat Richard's article on how to perform this (an US IMPS Journal -well out of print - or email him!) and Tim Stoneman's additional comments. I have just built a diorama of PQ 18 depicting two O Class which have be corrected as per Nat's instructions. It includes Nat's original article plus my own additional build notes. It should be up on the WEM website by now.....Caroline?????? I have just performed the conversion to Q/R Class and have used my conversion as a resin master. In order to do the job properly you really need to get hold of a WEM J Class bridge and pompom sponson as well as their Emergency destroyer Classes P.E. You will have to sctratch build the after deck house and searchlight/20mm platform. My four will appear in a dio depicting HMSs Roebuck and Relentless at anchor at Aden in late '43 with HMSs Quadrant and Quickmatch streaming past on their way out of the harbour. The Admiralty Pink Lists at the PRO do suggest that the scene is quite probable. Regards Chris He tao rakau e taea te karo kupu kaore e taea te karo (Te reo Maori) Hi, The article in question is from the old IPMS(US) Quarterly Vol 18/4. I totally agree, it's an excellent article on modelling the O-Z class DD's. Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24) From: "John Sheridan" Subject: Massachusetts Colors >> Doing research on my BWN Mass. Want to do her in measure 12-graded. Ships data from Fall River says ocean gray on hull and superstructure,navy blue overpainted on hull on july,1942. BWN says blue? at the waterline,with ocean gray above the blue. All vertical structures painted haze grey. Official navy sites are different from both. Can anyone help? << BB-59 USS Massachusetts was commissioned in MS 12 revised and NOT MS 12. Soon after commissioning she was repainted into MS 22 which she kept until decommissioned in 1947. MS 12 revised reference can be found in: http://www.shipcamouflage.com/measure_12_modified.htm and MS 22 can be found in: http://www.shipcamouflage.com/measure_22.htm And last but nor least, my BWN model of BB-59 can be found in: http://www.warship.simplenet.com/gallery.htm John Sheridan www.shipcamouflage.com I am not Unit# 631 of the Lumber Cartel (tinlc) If there were a Lumber Cartel, the last place on earth I would look for it would be: http://come.to/the.lumber.cartel -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 25) From: Craig R Bennett Subject: Re: Massachusetts Colors Hi Guys Concerning the Massechuetts BB-59 the 1942 scheme was accurate that's what I have from Leeward's publication on that ship. Ocean Gray on hull and superstruture with navy blue on the hull with irregular pattern along the sheer line. Navy blue irregular splotches overpainted in superstructure. Deck blue on all decks. The pattern is the same on both sides. May-October,1942 was it applied to that Battleship. Craig -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 26) From: "Wannsee" Subject: South Africans Hi All, Having been on the list for a few months now, and yes enjoyed it Marmite and all! Here is my question: How many other South Africans are on the list? I note OZ, NZ, US, UK, & Europe but very few from RSA. So if you are hiding away Lets say HI !!! I am lucky I spend approx 7 months of the year in the UK so could help by bringing the odd model back. Martin Foley mailto:naval@wannsee.co.za -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 27) From: Bradford Chaucer Subject: Re: Spray Booth motors >> Be sure the exhaust fan motor is SPARK-LESS ... some paint fumes are explosively flammable, and lots of electric motors spark. You do the math. Rusty - If you haven't checked, please do so, man ... hate to lose you like that (boom) ... You can get sparkless exhaust fan motors from the places that sell electrical appliances (light fixtures, etc.) - they cost more than garage sale prices, but not a lot more. The difference, in my opinion, is worth it to have a booth - cuts down on Ocean-Gray Lung - but not blowing up is also something worth considering. << Two types of motors have the potential to arc; brush type motors and those with centrifugal starting switches (Capacitor Start Induction run). In the former the brushes arc continuously, in the latter, the starter switch can arc when it switches out the starting capacitor. Split phase motors shouldn't arc, but you should be careful not to locate the on-off switch to close!!! Regards, Bradford Chaucer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 28) From: Tom Detweiler Subject: Re: Efficiency RE Warships and just plain war efficiency: I don't think war is supposed to be "efficient", is it? Isn't it kind of a ridiculously expensive, overall quite messy sort of proposition, in the first place? Don't recall many nations going to war with each other in the interest of material efficiency, anyways. But compare then to now: now, everytime we launch a guided "cruise" missile to knock over a supply depot it costs a few million bucks to do it-wonder which was cheaper or more efficient given the relative cost to do it? Hmmm. Could be Diplomacy, for all its failures, is still the cheapest and most efficient way to resolve a potential conflict, but to do that we would need real Statesmen and not the sort of career bureaucrats who inhabit the foreign services these days. What a quandary! Thanks for the OT thoughts, Jim. Tom D -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 29) From: Troy Waters Subject: Pearl Harbor Movie...OH NO! >> Like Tom, I recently saw a trailer for the new Pearl Harbor movie at a theater this weekend. I was really enjoying the different clips up until a scene that got me a bit worried. The trailer shows the initial stages of attack and one scene in particular shows three ships moored side by side getting bombed and sufferring what appeared to be actual explosions. Now, the part that worried me is that the ships getting bombed in this sequence looked like SPRUANCE CLASS DESTROYERS! I know that the USS MERRILL and two other decommissioned Spru-cans were moored together in Pearl recently but PLEASE tell me they didn't actually set real explosives on these ships!! Would someone in the know please shed some light on this and provide an answer either way? I know that those decommissioned Spruances were going to be scrapped anyway, but to see them blow up on the big screen (especially the MERRILL) for some Hollywood production makes me a bit angry...I hope I was just imagining things. << Hello Michael: The 3 Spruances did in fact have a very large diesel and gasoline fueled explosion rigged on their foredecks for the movie. The director Michael Bay had ensured the Navy that the explosions would only cause superficial damage but the actual explosions did an extensive bit of charring. Troy Waters -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 30) From: Matthew Prager Subject: Re: HMS Campbeltown Hello All! A question to go along with the HMS Campbeltown thread. I have two of these kits which I intend to build as the Destroyer Minelayer (DM)/Destroyer Minesweeper (DMS) conversions. Looking at the kit the the raised deck amdiships, between the second and third stacks, is open. There isn't a forward of aft bulkhead, just the port/starboard sides and the top deck. Is there supposed to be forward and aft bulkheads? Thanks for the help. Matt Prager -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 31) From: EBENCARL89@aol.com Subject: liners new web site hello, everyone for those of you who like oceanliners i found a site thats has nice brass models of liners on it, they are costly $$$$ but look great, they even have one of the queen mary in WWII ghost gray. i dont have the money to buy any of them, because i need to eat everyday lol but its nice to go there and dream check it out: www.maritimereplicas.com Thanks for all the help from time to time, edward -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 32) From: cfrieden@calpoly.edu Subject: Liberty Ship Model Tom, Sounds like you are looking for a 1/700 scale kit (about 8 inches long). There are currently two kits available in this scale. The best option for building an accurate model of a standard Liberty is to get the resin kit from Tom's Model Works. Pit-Road makes a plastic kit for US Navy Liberty Ships, which is available in two versions. Their AK-99 Bootes kit is closest to the standard Liberty configuration and would be the best starting point. This model has some details not found on most Liberty Ships, including two extra 20mm gun tubs, and enclosed flying bridge, and a searchlight platform on the funnel. If your friend wants to go the plastic route photoetch from the Tom's Model Works kit is available separately. When you add the photoetch both of these kits cost the same, about $35. HTH, Chris Friedenbach -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 33) From: "M & R Brown" Subject: RAN Colours The colours for Vampire would be: Hull > N42 Storm Grey. There is a model railway paint company in Sydney who produce a gloss Storm Grey. Anyone interested in their contact details. For the Poms, they also produce BS381C 697 Light Admiralty Grey (are you there Chris?) Decks > N63 Pewter alias BS381C 632 Dark Admiralty Grey. >From memory, Humbrol Number 5 is this colour. The model paint people do this colour too. I've found the ModelMaster Flat Lustre spray cans matt the gloss paints down very well and dry in a few minutes (in the Aussie sun & heat anyway). Per an ex navy guy in TF72 who had the "pleasure" of polishing the ships, the original Storm Grey paint is full gloss (like the RN's) and was polished with Car Polish! The paint actually varies from batch to batch so when a ship is painted they try and give them a full batch of the colour otherwise you end up with the bow in one shade and the stern in another and they look really strange. The colour in the 70's was a slightly darker version but was still referred to as Storm Grey. We understand that at some times the paint has been ordered using a deep base instead of white base giving a "different" Storm Grey. This is caused by an administrative kerfuffle (polite English for cock up). Michael Brown TF72 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 34) From: Randy Short Subject: Re: Massachusetts Colors Ray, Mass was in MM12 when first completed. Then Ms22. Have you got real documentation for a graded scheme? Randy Short -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 35) From: John Subject: Looking for Bismarck / Yamato Hello, Can anyone help me, I am trying to locate a model of either Bismarck or Yamato to build. So far I have found a 1:350 of them but want a bigger one, however not the 1:72 as this is too big, I don't seem to be getting anywhere fast. Is there one between them or can u tell me who to get in contact with, thank you john waite -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Keith Butterley Subject: Warship Books mini vacation Hi, I will be out of the office from Nov 28 to Dec 3. Happy modeling Keith Butterley http://www.warshipbooks.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://www.smml.org.uk Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://www.tac.com.au/~sljenkins/apma.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume