Subject: SMML VOL 1079 Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 01:18:42 +1100 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: Casablanca class CVE 2: Re: Casablanca class CVE 3: Re: Where is volume III? 4: Gearing class destroyers 5: Devonshire Insturctions 6: HMS Beagle 7: Liberty ship "Bootes" 8: Spray Booth fan motors 9: Re: spray booths 10: Corrected list of Kombrig's announced Soviet ships 11: Pearl Harbor-Get A Life 12: Re: BIG Yamato & Bismarck 13: Re: HMS Devonshire 14: Re: Gold anchors 15: Re: USS Cabot 16: WW1 110' Subchaser kit (Glencoe) 17: Re: paint booths 18: Re: USS Cabot 19: Re: Samek; Prinz Eugen, Texas 20: Skytrex 21: Glencoe WWI Subchaser 22: Campbeltown Galley 23: Re: Looking for Bismarck / Yamato 24: USN inactive ships site 25: Re: Fan motors 26: Re: Foxer 27: Re: Casablanca class CVE 28: French Destroyers 29: Foxer or CAT gear 30: Korean Turtle Ships 31: USN Vietnam Monitors 32: Academy 1/150 U-boat -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Infomation 1: APMA meeting -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Re: Samek Texas, Prinz Eugen -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Cataldo Torelli Subject: Re: Casablanca class CVE >> Does anyone know when a 1/700 Casablanca class CVE might hit the market? Or should I buy one of Tom's? I've seen one built up and it's a wonderful looking model. << Hi Rusty, Pit Road has plans to release one the next year (IIRC). Regards, Cataldo Torelli. Madrid, Spain. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Fernando, Yohan" Subject: Re: Casablanca class CVE Rusty- Skywave has a 1/700 plastic injection Casablanca in the works with a scheduled release date of December. There is a picture on their site of the work in progress: http://member.nifty.ne.jp/pitroad/w57.JPG From my guess, it will probably be delayed a bit as their other recent releases and will probably come out in January or February (hopefully). Yohan Fernando -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: ALROSS2@aol.com Subject: Re: Where is volume III? I echo John's comments concerning our experience with the publisher on the Allied Coastal Forces series. In fact, I've emailed them three times since this summer regarding an AOTS on the 80' ELCO that I was going to produce for them before the first buyout and have not received any response whatsoever. My contribution to vol 3 was (is?) to be material on Higgins, Huckins, and Canadian Power Boat. I have enough material on hand to do the drawings for all three types plus the MK17 .50 cal gun mount. John is trying to prematurely age me... he's older, you see... :-} ) While I no longer work in corporate America, I haven't "retired" yet. I still build custom ship models on a full-time basis and teach technical writing at a private college here in central Maine. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "joe sapek" Subject: Gearing class destroyers I have just gotten interested in model shipbuilding. I am interested in the Gearing class destroyers. Has anyone built a scratch unit or one of the resin hull kits. Any thoughts, comments, etc. will be greatly appreciated. Thanks Joe Sapek -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Felix Bustelo Subject: Devonshire Insturctions Hi Mike, I have the kit and I will be glad to scan and email them to you. My kit is missing one of the funnel halves but has a complete instruction sheet - any chance that your kit has an extra one? Perhaps Airfix put it in yours... Regards, Felix Bustelo International Maritime Modeling URL: http://members.tripod.com/~Febus65/imm.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: David Fisher Subject: HMS Beagle Mamoli produces a kit reputed to be of the HMS Beagle. Photographs of the kit indicate it is nothing like the 1831 version (after refit) when Darwin sailed on it. The deck housing, bowsprit, boats etc. do not conform to the drawing in Marquardt's Anatomy of the Ship HMS Beagle. Does anyone know if the hull structure as to dimensions, shapes etc. conform to the 1831 configuration. David Fisher -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: Masashi Ito Subject: Liberty ship "Bootes" Does anyone know about Liberty Ship Bootes? Skywave has a kit of her, and that of Sabik. I found Sabik on the list of libery ships which I found on a website. But the list didn't have Bootes. Was there the ship whose name was Bootes? Masashi Ito -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Tom Detweiler Subject: Spray Booth fan motors Hey SMMLies -- The best type of fan to buy for your spray booth homebuilts are the "muffin" fans used for cooling computer and other electronic equipment. They vary in size from 3" to 12" diameters, operate quietly (or mostly quietly) and are always brushless (they're called inductive motors) to eliminate the electrical noise associated with brushes. One way to know is, most inductive ones are 110VAC. You can buy them cheap from electronics surplus places and gang them together to create however much venting is needed. They work great, last forever and are cheap. Good sources are: American Science and Surplus (www.sciplus.com) , All Electronics (www.allelectronics.com ), Alltronics (alltronics.com), and Electronic Goldmine (www.goldmine-elec.com) among others. These places are also good places to find cheap LEDs, miniature bulbs, fiber optics, tiny DC motors, etchants and photoetch materials, and other things for juicing up models. Have fun! Tom in Rocklin, CA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: SantMin@aol.com Subject: Re: spray booths >> I used a cook top vent hood for mine. By code (at least here in Oklahoma) they are required to be sparkless due to possible buildup of grease and dust on the filter. << I did basically the same as Rusty. My spray booth isn't really a "booth" but a part of my workbench that is seperated only by a thin partition from the rest of the bench. I installed a kitchen exhaust fan through the wall at the back of the bench. I've been using that for about 20 years with no problems. Cheers, Bob Santos -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "Poutre, Joseph A" Subject: Corrected list of Kombrig's announced Soviet ships I went through their web-published list and worked out exactly what they're listing. I was wrong about some of the models, and here's an accurate list: Battleship: Novorossijsk ex-Guilio Cezare Cruisers: Chapaev 2 versions Sverdlov Dzerzhinsky Sverdlov class fitted w/ SA-N-2 Project 58/Kynda 3 versions Pr. 1134/Kresta I (that's a one) Pr. 1134.B/Kara 3 versions Pr. 1164/Slava 2 versions Pr. 1144/Kirov all 4 Moskva/Leningrad helo cruisers Destroyers: Project 56A/Kotlin SAM Project 56K/Bravvy - Kotlin fitted for SA-N-1 trials Project 56PLO/Kotlin MOD (I don't know how hard it would be to convert one of these to a baseline Kotlin. Also, the Kildin class are built on the same hull, though it'd be some work to convert.) Perhaps they plan to bring out the other classes in the future, but this is the list as published. Joseph Poutre -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Victor M. Baca" Subject: Pearl Harbor-Get A Life Jeez--get a life, it's only a movie. Victor Baca -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: John Philip Downing Subject: Re: BIG Yamato & Bismarck I have the 1/200 Yamato and a 1/192 Missouri (a wood kit by Sterling) that I built about 20 years ago. I recently found a 1/200 Bismarck made bt a German company. The kit is perhaps 30 years old, and has a vacuform hull, wood superstructure, plastic airplane and metal gun barrells. The first two are still made, I have no idea about the Bismarck. There are numerous card models mad by a Polish company of 1/200 battleships. I have an Arizona (with cover art of it shooting down Zeroes while underway in the open sea!) and a Rodney. There are others as well. John -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "Michael Dunn" Subject: Re: HMS Devonshire Hi all, My thanks to all who replied; I now have a set of instructions, so I guess if I put the wrong bits anywhere now, I only have myself to blame Once more, many thanks. Mike SMML Webmaster -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "Glenn & Kelly Neklason" Subject: Re: Gold anchors Tom I have seen the gold anchors up here at Naval Station Norfolk. I asked a petty officer the same question and got the same answer. Glenn -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: raisingirl@mindspring.com Subject: Re: USS Cabot hello all.... Shirley Sachsen wrote: >> ...and another one bites the dust... This ship, more than the other carriers with hopeful fan clubs, was well worth the saving, since she was still in WWII configuration, but who really cares about a 'jeep' carrier? And to think she could have been bought outright for approx. $180K, bypassing all the hoops the Navy puts one through to acquire one of theirs... << Boy, oh, boy (said she, not really that surprised, especially having read the whole ridiculous story that ECOSAT went through with the scrap dealer who bought the ship at the auction). Oddly enough, this was a case in which the absence of the Navy's bureaucratic hoops ended up dooming the ship. Say what you want about the Navy's donation program (and when I was a long-distance part of the Bremerton/Seattle/Tacoma effort for the Hornet ten years ago, I frequently did), but at least it sets standards for acquisition and upkeep, and instills some discipline in the process. As with the SS United States (still around, yes, but for how much longer?), the Cabot's demise is a sick, sad story. Funny how two cities and two groups can fight like cats and dogs over the Forrestal (which will be a MAJOR handful to keep in shape), yet no one can step up with $180,000 to save one of the last survivors of the great war to save humanity -- and funny how people will willingly plunk down big bucks to plunder yet again the graves of the Titanic or Andrea Doria, but don't give a national damn about saving the history that's still afloat. Hmmm. Between this and the "Pearl Harbor" film, this is not a good time for those who love history. Besides, I still wonder what's so wrong with "Tora! Tora! Tora!" -- which, despite some overacting by some minor characters, still holds its own after 31 years. As with baseball teams who want to junk their historic old ballparks in favor of new retro-style ballparks, I guess folks are more interested in a Disneyized/"Titanic" version of history, complete with obligatory sex scenes and a gunfight in the middle of the bloody sinking, instead of something that may not be sexy, but *is* authentic. Oh, and for my money, Jason Robards (who was at the *real* Pearl Harbor) beats the daylights out of Ben Affleck as a sex symbol any day. Apologies for the rant. jodie http://www.mindspring.com/~raisingirl/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: Fkbrown90@aol.com Subject: WW1 110' Subchaser kit (Glencoe) In a recent SMML journal PT191@AOL.com mentioned a Glencoe kit for a WW1 110' subchaser. I will appreciate it if anyone will advise me of where I can see such a kit, in the Boston (Massachusetts) area? Lacking this information, advice on where I could get one by mail-order would be nice. Franklyn aka fkbrown90 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: Chris Crofoot Subject: Re: paint booths For everybody worrying about using sparkless motors in their paint botths.... I wouldn't stress. As long as the fan is running BEFORE you start spraying, there isn't an opportunity for enough fumes to build up to cause an explosion. I've been using my booth made with a bathroom exhaust fan for well on eight years now and have yet to be blown up. The only reason to worry about sparks is if you spray and then flip the on switch...and nobody aperates that way... Chris Crofoot "Quemadmoeum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est" A sword is never a killer, it is a tool in the killer's hands. -----Seneca, 45 AD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: Keith T Bender Subject: Re: USS Cabot Hi Sommeliers, It is a crime that the Cabot must be scrapped. I remember her while making port in Rota, Spain while in the navy. I traded hats and Zippo lighters for their hats. At the time I didn't know she use to be CVL 28 USS Cabot but I knew she was an American ship from the war. I'm glad we saved four of the Essex class an only to wish they have saved the Bunker Hill CV 17. She was still in her WW ll form. As for the Midway, Sorry Midway people but do we really need that one ? I like her too and have modeled her but I'd rather see the Cabot as a museum. I'm pretty sure that my ship will never be saved as a museum, USS Inchon LPH 12 / MCS 12. But then the LPH class is not the most glamorous looking vessel ever built. We have very few ships still in their WWll configuration and the Cabot could have been brought around pretty easy. Delaware's power ball is $135 million tonight. If I win I promise I will buy her. Thats the best I can do. KTB -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: "Russell Smith" Subject: Re: Samek; Prinz Eugen, Texas I've a Prinz Eugen on order since September. I talked to Bill Gruner the other day (yesterday) when ordering something else. He hasn't got them as of that phone call yet. I'll give a in box review when mine arrives if I get mine before someone else. Russ Smith -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: "John Rule" Subject: Skytrex I have just received a shipment of 1:700 scale models from Skytrex, consisting of HMS Black Prince (WWII cruiser), HMS Norfolk (modern Type 23 Duke Class destroyer) and three Napoleonic sailing ships HMS Victory, HMS Bellerophon and HMS Euryalus. These are all white metal based models. The Black Prince and Norfolk are similar to 1:1200 scale models in having a lot of the detail cast on the hull. They are very good castings and I believe will look excellent with a good paint job, dark wash weathering and light dry brush highlighting. The addition of some brass rod and photoetch will further enhance the models. Well done Skytrex! The Napoleonic vessels are a major step in this scale (1:700 that is ). The hull castings are beautiful and will certainly paint up into good models. The masts are white metal like the hull and may present some problems when doing the rigging. I guess they could be replaced with brass rod. Two sets of yards are provided, one with furled sails, the other for attaching the full sails. The sails are etched brass and have to be shaped and /or bent to make them "billow". The ratlines are also etched brass and represent the poorest part of the kit , being a trifle heavy. Perhaps Skytrex will turn their attention to improving this item. My overall impression of these kits from an initial in-box viewpoint is excellent. They also include a fairly detailed instruction sheet with details of the method of rigging the vessels. Skytrex are to be congratulated on their entry into this scale. Their introduction of sailing ships is commendable. They have introduced an extensive line in their "Trafalgar" range which includes 8 Royal Navy ships, 4 French vessels, 5 Spanish ships and 5 ships of the USN. For our US friends who missed the battle of Trafalgar the line includes Constitution, President, United States, Chesapeake and Essex. The prices for the Napoleonic range are approximately 17 to 20 pounds each. Hope the above is informative. John Rule (My only connection to Skytrex is as a satisfied customer) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: "Mike Leonard" Subject: Glencoe WWI Subchaser >> I'm interested in that ship--what is the prototype's classification? According to the "Rajen" list, it is an Eagle Class, and the box art shows a large "AV" followed by a smaller SC96" at the bow. But I looked on DANFS for reference, but couldn't find it. When were their service lives? Did any survive to WWII? Would anybody just happen to have an extra one kicking around collecting dust? If I can't find the kit itself, it looks like it could be a good scratchbuilding project--not too big or complex. But I need dimensions or at least a reference for photos. << DANFS wouldn't have covered the SC class, they being too small to qualify as ships. The Eagle Boats were a different design, and not a very successful one. Most of the SC craft were sold off after the Armistice. Some ended up in the US Coast Guard, where they enforced the Volstead Act (Prohibition) chasing "rum runners" in the Caribbean. A large number were apparently transferred to France. Don't think any were still active by the time of WW2. The WW2 SC design was the same length (110') but otherwise quite a different craft altogether. They were put into production in late 1941 "as war clouds gathered" and served as a stopgap convoy escort and ASW patrol boat until DEs and other more capable ships were available in large numbers. The identifier "AV" is thought to have been an example of the codes for the ports out of which the subchasers operated, but there is little documentation on this. A partial list of these codes for boats based in the UK was published a few years ago in Warship International. References on WW1 USN subchasers: Books - "US Small Combatants: Am Illustrated Design History" by Norman Friedman; "The Splinter Fleet" by Ray Millholland Internet - http://members.aol.com/diodor/splinterfleet/sfww1.htm Magazines - "The Romance of the Subchasers" by John Rousmaniere, Naval History, Summer 1992 Mike Alexandria, VA USA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: "Mike Leonard" Subject: Campbeltown Galley >> The midship gun decks sit on top of a square structure (which I believe was a Galley) creating 2 companion ways down either side. << This area did house the ship's galley. Photos of ships completed in the 1918 timeframe usually show a semi-enclosed upper superstructure that in effect left the galley open to the weather on all four sides. Canvas dodgers were used to close off the port and starboard sides in heavy weather. This area was plated over on ships that were kept in service into the 1930s and beyond. Best to look for photos before building a specific ship, as there was so much variation in this large class. >> To pick up on the fiction/film thread wasn't the USS CAINE suppose to be a 4 pipe Minesweeper? << Believe so. None were left in service when the film was made in 1954, so a Benson (?) class DMS was substituted. Mike -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: SolidStump@aol.com Subject: Re: Looking for Bismarck / Yamato >> Nichimo has a 1/200 scale and Arii has a 1/250 scale. Doyusha also had a 1/250 scale ship to match it's 1/250 Shinnano if you can find it. Otherwise, try some of the card model sites as there are card models in 1/200, 1/250, and 1400 that I can think of off the top of my head. These also could be used to make other scales by enlarging or shrinking copies of the sheets. Ebay has had the Nichimo and Arii kits several times. << Why wait for an e-bay sale.......Naval Base Hobbies lists both Nichimo and Doyusha Yamato. Link is available on Warship Home, a treasure trove of information and links...people looking for models etc. should throughly investigate the site... Regards, Simon -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24) From: "Rod Dauteuil" Subject: USN inactive ships site (Quite by accident) I came across this site which lists inactive US Navy ships, and their disposition. I don't know if anybody's ever posted this on the list. Some descriptions even give dimensions. http://www.nvr.navy.mil/quick/inactive.htm Enjoy! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 25) From: Bradford Chaucer Subject: Re: Fan motors >> I used a cook top vent hood for mine. By code (at least here in Oklahoma) they are required to be sparkless due to possible buildup of grease and dust on the filter. So I guess if I'm going to be blown up, someone besides me will have to do it. A quick call to any electrician in your town (wherever that may be) can put your mind at ease. They would certainly be aware of the electrical code in your town. << AFAIK Cooking hood motors are required to be non-sparking by the N.E.C. Regards, Bradford Chaucer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 26) From: "denis keegan" Subject: Re: Foxer The Foxer worked on the same principle but was made up of 2 pieces of steel bar which were strapped together loosely and towed behind the ship. The clanging (?) was enough to attract the acoustic torpedo away from the towing ship Denis K -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 27) From: "John Sutherland" Subject: Re: Casablanca class CVE Rusty, Have a look at the Pit-Road web-site. The "plan" picture has been replaced by a photographic shot of what I assume is the test mould - they are also saying Jan 01 issue. It is supposed to be released in their W-XX series plastic kits. Looks good, but then I'm no expert. Tried to compare it with the photos of Tom's from his web-site - it seems different somehow? Regards John Sutherland From Marmite land (Yuck! - I also hate it Steve!) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 28) From: "larsenal" Subject: French Destroyers Hello ! I saw some very interesting postings about the markings of the French Contre-Torpilleurs ( Destroyers ), before and during WWII. Paul Jacobs gave a very interesting point of view and noted the complexity of the system. Do not worry, the system is very complex. You must know some information about the French marking system, and you'll see why things are so complex. There were no formal instructions about the painting of the markings before 1944. 1- Each ship wears the markings of the Escadre she belongs. You must know that these markings were given at Admiral's guise until 1939... 2- She wears also the markings of the Division she belongs. 3- And also markings depends of the place of the ship in the combat formation. This is why you can see pictures of Le Tigre ( Jaguar Class Contre Torpilleur ) wearing the following codes: 3, G3, 6, 7, 11, 10, 11, 13, X41, all these codes in a period of only 13 years! After the reunification of the French Navy and Free French Forces in late 1943, the Allied system of coding was adopted. So if anyone is strong enough so start a study about French markings of this period all my best wishes ! Best regards Jacques Druel L'Arsenal -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 29) From: Dave Swindell Subject: Foxer or CAT gear >> There was I believe another use for this as a defence against acoustic torpedoes rather than mines. Called, to the best of my recollection, a FOXER it was towed behind a ship to create enough noise to attract acoustic torpedoes which, otherwise, would have homed in on the sound of the engines. << Whether this is the same gear I don't know, but there's a photo in a book on HMCS Sackville of the Canadian Anti-acoustic Torpedo or CAT gear, two lengths of pipe on a wire yoke towed behind the ship, simple but effective. Dave Swindell -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 30) From: Edwparent@aol.com Subject: Korean Turtle Ships Simon, Saw your request on the SMML website. This is maybe not much help, but I have a couple photos of a model of one of these vessels I took back in 1989.The model was in the Annapolis Navy Museum, I think. I got the following out of a book about the history of ships but I forgot its name: In 1597 Japanese armies had overrun Korea but a year later their commander, Hideyoshi, died and the troops were recalled to Japan. They boarded some 300 small ships that were to carry them back , a fleet trained in the traditional galley tactics of grappling and boarding, and set sail. To combat this armada, Korean Admiral Yi Sin Sun invented the "turtle boat", the first armored craft in history. They were about 100 feet long and about 30 feet wide, driven by 10 oars on a side each pulled by 2 men. The planking was 4 inches thick and continued upward to form an arched roof, like a turtle's shell, over the whole vessel. Only a narrow longitudinal slit on this roof was left open through which a mast could be raised or lowered. To discourage boarders, the roof was bristled with iron spikes like a porcupine.. There were ports on the sides for some 20 cannon and a dozen archers. A dragon figurehead on the stem belched a sulfurous smoke that served as a screen. These vessels lay in among the smaller Japanese craft and pounded them to bits. Thus, Korea was rid of the Jap invasion threat. If you send me your mailing address I can send you some copies of my photos as well as some sketches and engravings sufficient for building a conjectural model. Admiral Yi had no time to make blueprints so these will have to do. Ed Parent -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 31) From: Matthew Prager Subject: USN Vietnam Monitors Hi, This is a ship modeling question that delves into armor modeling as well (Oh No!). I'm doing research for a USN Monitor from the Vietnam war, the version that mounted a 105mm Howitzer in a turret on the bow. I believe the turret was the same used on the USMC LVPT-5(a) but I'm having a hard time tracking down info/pictures/drawings of it. Can anyone out there give me some help? Matt Prager -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 32) From: Cataldo Torelli Subject: Academy 1/150 U-boat Hi, I've seen an Academy 1/150? U-boat kit to build it static or motor-driven. Tom, and the others sub experts, what's about this kit? Thanks in advance, Cataldo Torelli. Madrid, Spain. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Infomation -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Shane Subject: APMA meeting Hi gang, This Saturaday, sees the last APMA for the year/Millenium. It's the AGM & annual competitions day - with categories across the modelling spectrum. Doors open at 1030. More details from the APMA site at the url below. All who are visiting Sydney are welcome to attend & see all the models on display (although none from me :-( - been too busy with the last magazine of the year & updating the site to finish any for the day). Regards Shane APMA VP http://www.tac.com.au/~sljenkins/apma.htm Having FUN making models -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Michael Dunn" Subject: Re: Samek Texas, Prinz Eugen Rob wrote: >> Has anyone purchased or seen the new 1/700 kits USS Texas and DKM Prinz Eugen by Samek Models? Can you give us a short review?m << If anyone would like to write a longer review of these or others, maybe with imagery, just mail it through to me @ the usual address. Mike SMML Webmaster -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://www.smml.org.uk Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://www.tac.com.au/~sljenkins/apma.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume