Subject: SMML VOL 1088 Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 23:02:40 +1100 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Review Artitec Hr.Ms. Tromp and box review Hr.Ms. Van Speijk 2: Re: CERBERUS and the Small warship SIG 3: VENTS 4: Re: Arizona 5: Re: Japanese Naval Aircraft Colors 6: Re: Japanese naval aircraft colors/Tone-Chikuma question 7: Re: Jap Aircraft colors 8: Re: USS BARRY/USS CABOT 9: First ship 10: Re: Japanese mini-sub found 11: Re: Jap Aircraft colors 12: Tony Ireland 13: Re: Fleet Boat Black 14: Models other than ships 15: Re: Seasprite 16: Re: Evergreen round stock 17: Re: Japanese Mini Sub found 18: SMML trivia 19: More on USS HOLT 20: Re: Fleet Boat Black 21: Re: First ship by Tony Ireland -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Infomation 1: Washington DC area SMMLcon 2000 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: NEW RANGE OF MODEL WARSHIP PAINTS FROM WHITE ENSIGN MODELS 2: 1/96 ships for sale -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Michiel Woort" Subject: Review Artitec Hr.Ms. Tromp and box review Hr.Ms. Van Speijk Hereby the promised review of the Artitec/MSF Hr.Ms. Tromp (GW-fregat 1976-2000) in 1:350. You can make the Hr.Ms. Tromp or her sister ship Hr.Ms. Ruyter in their last outfit. The dimensions are correct when you make the helideck 2,5 mm longer, the side shape of the stern is then also correct. The model is nice detailed and the parts fits good. It has a full hull, with a couple of resin parts for the bridge, basic superstructure, hangaar, harpoondeck, funnels, mast and a big radardome. These ships were also named the KOJAKS of the dutch navy. The smaller parts are put on resin trees, there is a frame with photo-etch parts (only thing that is missing are the railings) and some decals The only problem was that Artitec sometimes forgot to give parts number in the instructions and sometimes they also forgot to drawn them in the instructions. The lucky thing was that we have the 1:1 scale Hr.Ms. Tromp laying in the harbour (she is not out of duty). I have given the people from MSF an A 4 with al the problems and they now suply this with the model. Conclusions very nice kit, this is one of my favourites from their growing range with dutch warships. And for a very nice price I believe about 100 US dollars. And when I brought my A4 with Hr.Ms. Tromp headaches I just recieved the Hr.Ms. Van Speijk ( the dutch leander ) in 1:350. The parts are also produced as mentioned above the only this time one big superstructure. Everything looks very good again no photo-etc railing, but the price is about the 75 US Dollars I believe. I almost cann't wait to built this beauty. You can get information by MSF, Pr. Hendriklaan 53 A, 1781 KB Den Helder, Nederland or tel +31 223 62 54 44. The website isnot ready yet. They also have in 1:350 Hr.Ms. Tonijn (sub), Hr.Ms. Kortenaar (S-fregat) and Hr.Ms. Karel Doorman (M-fregat). Or send me an e-mail and I will try to help. Michiel Woort The Netherlands -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Les Pickstock Subject: Re: CERBERUS and the Small warship SIG For anyone who hasn't had a look at the websites mentioned in these post I heartily recommend them both. I down loaded the CERBERUS card model and printed it out on our duff colour printer to see how it looked. The model (to1/250th) is the equal of any card ship model I've seen and would be a good starter kit for anyone wanting to try this idiosyncratic modelling form. Mostly because once downloaded you can reprint anything you make a pigs ear of. I personally plan to scale the model down and model it to 1/350th. What ever you do with it you should e-mail the chap about preserving the wreck, as this is an important warship, historically. I visited the Small Warship SIG, which I shall be joining (as soon as i remember to pay my IPMS Subs) Although still in its infancy this site has amazing potential and has got off to a great start with four pics of MTB 74 in a really wild camo scheme. Well done to Les Brown. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Jim Fearn Subject: VENTS My scratch built 1:96 cruiser HMS Newcastle has a variety of vents and exhausts. They come in a variety of shapes and sizes; tall, short, round and square. Most seem to have a hinged access door facing aft to, I assume, minimize injesting water. Do these vents have automatic dampers to prevent accidental water intake? When I visited the HMS Belfast two years ago I noticed that most vents had a perforated plate or wire mesh covering some of the vents. Were these barriers there to prevent tourists using them as waste recepticals or are they part of the original vent? Any picture I have been able to find doesn't have enough contrast to pick out this detail. The blueprints show some vents with the designation (M.V.). If the "V" is for VENT what on earth does the "M" designate? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: RBiesik@reichert.com Subject: Re: Arizona Concerning the Arizona and if it was ever videotape from below. A local modeler,Glenn Staubitz(sp?) who I met when I was in a local modeling group,( he is the same guy who has the fiberglass hulls for modeling business) created a large diorama model of the Arizona in its present state for display at Pearl Harbor a couple years ago. He told us they(the US navy) sent divers down to sketch and I would imagine photograph(tape?) her as reference material for him. Richard R.Biesik -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: SantMin@aol.com Subject: Re: Japanese Naval Aircraft Colors >> A 1/72 Jake at our Club meeting yesterday provoked this. Does anyone have a source for Jap naval aircraftt colours that will give << the Ministry of Small Aircraft Production has a series of aircraft color charts, one of which is Japanese Naval Aircraft. They do not reference model paints but they do have color swatches. As an aside, I do not normally model Japanese aircraft but I do have a piece of one, a small rectangle of aluminum cut from a downed plane during WW II. I have kept it stored out of any light all these years. The outside is from the insignia and it is a darker red than I normally see on illustrations and the inside is not really painted, it looks like a transparent light blue varnish that lets the silver of the aluminum show through. Cheers, Bob Santos -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Mike Taylor" Subject: Re: Japanese naval aircraft colors/Tone-Chikuma question Check this site: http://www.j-aircraft.com/ There's a lively thread going on in the J-aircraft nats message board. Leading to this question: Can anyone help me with info for backdating the Tone/Chikuma kits to there Pearl Harbor configuration? I believe the Morskie book is out of print. Mike T -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "Jim Johnson" Subject: Re: Jap Aircraft colors Everything you wanted to know about Japanese aircraft modeling, including colors and color mixes is available at www.j-aircraft.com There is more information than you need there. It even has a section on aircraft carriers. Check it out! Jim Johnson IPMS 1788 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "John Snyder" Subject: Re: USS BARRY/USS CABOT OK, maybe it's time (likely past time) for me to put on my professional hat and weigh in here with some thoughts and suggestions. For those of you who don't know, my regular profession is in the field of historic preservation, and largely in the link between that and US environmental laws and regulations. The National Historic Preservation Act requires ALL federal agencies to go through a consultation process if they have the potential to affect a property (and that includes ships) that is listed on, or may be eligible for listing on, the National Register of Historic Places. This applies whether it is the agency's direct project, or whether the agency is simply providing funding, or a license or permit. (I'm going to keep this simple.) Regarding BARRY: The Navy is required to assess whether she is eligible for National Register listing and, if she is, to take steps to mitigate any adverse effects that their proposed disposal would have. Further, there is an Executive Order (signed by Richard Nixon in 1971) that requires federal agencies to preserve and protect historical assets under their control... Regarding CABOT: There MUST be SOME federal permit or license required in her scrapping. If she has to be moved from where she is, I would think a USCG permit would be required. Again, that would trigger historic preservation consultation under the Act. And, if a USCG permit IS required, then other, tougher historic preservation regulations in the US Transportation Act come into play, because in peacetime the Coast Guard is an arm of the U.S. Department of Transportation! If a Coast Guard permit was issued previously without going through the consultation process, then it is clearly litigable if someone wanted to take that on. Like Mike C., I donated some money to try to save CABOT. As a kid I also sent money to Halsey's organization to try to save ENTERPRISE... John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys P.S. Preservation Services Preserving the Past for the Future -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "O'Connor" Subject: First ship Bravo to Tony Ireland's tale about his first ship- what a step back into history, and a view of what life was like before us youngsters. Great stuff- Thanks, Tony!!! As for jumping ship to build other than floating (or submerging) subjects, I too must confess to the purchase of winged things, as well as having been an armor afficianado for years. Most of my aircraft are carrier based items, but I do pick up Air Force items occasionally. But, no problem- we all need a break from the usual at times.(Don't tell my wife!!!). Bob, in warm and mostly sunny Central Florida, where we might just choose a President today!!!! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Burl Burlingame / Pacific Monograph Subject: Re: Japanese mini-sub found Bob Ballard found nothing. The Ha-type he "discovered" we found last summer using the University of Hawaii's deep-diver Pisces 5, and it is the middle section of a midget brought from Okinawa after the war and dumped at sea. The Ward's midget is still missing. The dumping ground off Pearl Harbor has already been the subject of numerous articles. Ballard didn't find what he was looking for so NatGeo is putting out a false spin on what he did shoot. As it turned out, he had to use Pisces to get the footage. Burl Pacific Monograph, 1124 Kahili Street, Kailua HI 96734 808-263-6087 buzz@aloha.net A historical interpretation company. Visit our web sites at http://www.PacificHistory.com/ and http://www.PacificHistory.net "He's supposed to be dead. This is vexing. I am terribly vexed." -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Hub & Diane Plott" Subject: Re: Jap Aircraft colors Aviation USK-Nebraska has Model Arts #272 & 329 with English translations that cover most of the Japanese colors used in and on aircraft. Hub -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "John Rule" Subject: Tony Ireland >> Please excuse the length of this tale of my first ship. << Apology accepted. But you didn't really have to as I enjoyed your reminiscences in SMML 1087 immensely, as probably did most other SMMLLies. John Rule -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: James Corley Subject: Re: Fleet Boat Black >> A while back, in a discussion about Measure 9 paint for USN W.W.II Fleet boats someone suggested not using a straight black (or flat black). Instead they suggested lightening the black to a gray (grey), maybe even suggested a Testor's match. Anybody with a better memory or faster search recall what was suggested? << Mark, I had chimed in at one point in this discussion. I use the Floquil Tire Black half&half with whichever Floquil black is have (RLM, USN, etc., as long as it is BLACK) on hand and almost empty. This darkens the color to almost black, and is a good match for sun faded black for WW2 era subs and is extremely close to the color of modern anechoic tiles applied to USN subs. JZ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: SAMI ARIM Subject: Models other than ships Hello, I am too guilty of building models other than ships. I built occasionally anything with my 6 year old son as a family project to inject the addiction of modeling into him. We will see if it is going to work. I also built rarely 1/144 scale airplanes, 1/87 scale racecars, paint some figures and on top of all this shame i collect marbles! Regards Sami Arim -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: Craig R Bennett Subject: Re: Seasprite Hi guys The paint colors of the SH-2F Seasprite were overall Engine Gray FS-16081. In front of the cockpit is a black patch that curves along the front of the heliocopter's front. On top of the cockpit is a large American flight insigna turned upside down. The rotors are black on top with light gray on the underside. Behind the the engine intakes is V-shaped placed horizonally looking like this < which is red with white outlines. Inside of that is the word Danger. Behind the V is a straight line of red with white borders on the engine cowling.Going from the exhaust pipe at an angle of 45 degrees is is tri stripe of this going down the fuselage. Behind this is an American flight insigna followed by underneath it the copter's number 0141. In line with flight insigna is in large white letters NAVY with underneath that is HSL-33. Then comes a large yellow patch with diffucult to read items on it. Now were at the heliocopters tail. Behind the the yellow patch is in white letters saying S 14above that is the rudders and above that is 3 stripes of red with outlines of white togather. Near the top of the tail where the rotor is at are the letters TF with back rotors being black half way up and then becominng 3 equal sized colors on the remaining half of the rotor Blue, White, and Red. The colors are based on FS 595a. I hope this is of help. Craig -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: Bradford Chaucer Subject: Re: Evergreen round stock >> I'm wondering if I'm the only one who's noticed that many of Evergreen's styrene rods are out-of-round. I've taken to carefully rolling the rods inside the poly wrap to ascertain their roundness before purchasing them. Checking several sizes, I found most of the rod suffered this defect...thinking it might be a bad batch, I checked several other hobby shops at two month intervals and still found the same problem. I even mailed Evergreen samples of the defective rods and requested an exchange...but I never heard back from them. I've since been ordering my styrene rod from Plastruct and have experienced no similar defects. << Yes, I've seen rod stock that looked like it was extruded through a set of mis-matched dies. I'm not sure how much better Plastistruct is. That's why I prefer brass where ever possible. Regards, Bradford Chaucer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: louellet@uism.bu.edu Subject: Re: Japanese Mini Sub found Bradford Chaucer wrote: >> There was a report on MSNBC tonight that Bob Ballard has located the Japanese Minisub that was tracked and sunk by the USS Ward 1 hour prior to the attack on Pearl Harbor. The report also noted that he has also found downed planes, unexploded torpedoes and many other relics of the attack. One wonders, whether the USS Arizona has ever been video surveyed from below??? << I have seen some underwater footage of ARIZONA on TV before. It was a program that showed the Navy divers inspecting the hulk and placing the cremated remains (in urns) of ARIZONA survivors on the wreck. Sorry, but I don't know the name of the program or the network it was on. Last night (December 7, 2000) on the news I saw about 20 seconds of new footage. It was an excerpt from a new National Geographic special that will air sometime this spring (fall, for those of you down under.) I checked out the National Geographic website and there is some information about Ballard's search for the Japanese midget sub that may have been in the harbor (that one they didn't find.) Maybe the ARIZONA was also filmed as part of this project? Burl, do you know anything? Larry Ouellette louellet@uism.bu.edu Volunteer, USS Salem (CA 139) United States Naval & Shipbuilding Museum Quincy, Massachusetts, USA http://www.uss-salem.org/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: Fkbrown90@aol.com Subject: SMML trivia Here's one for the trivia buffs of SMML> Can any one identify a commissioned U.S.Naval armed combat vessel 100% manned by African-Americans? And please, no vituperations. We are talking pure historical facts here. As I see it, SMML is not an arena for venting one's spleen, political or otherwise. Let's keep it that way. Franklyn -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: NAVYDAZE@aol.com Subject: More on USS HOLT The USS HOLT was one of my first commission jobs as an artist by the first C.O. CMDR Leahy while she was being completed at Todds shipyard in Long Beach/Los Angeles. The idea was to give a painting of the ship underway, etc. to the ships sponsor which was the widow of Prime Minister Holt. I believe she was in attendance at the commisioning when they gave the painting to her at that time. The one thing that stands out in my mind was they gave me a commission pennet to put on the painting itself (probably fell off by now) and hoping everyone would believe it was the HOLT's first pennet - which it was not in came in a standard military issue box they gave me. But they really made a big deal about this with a lot of newspaper coverage talking about being named after the late Prime Minister and so on so it must have been politically important to us at that time. As a side job to that. I was then asked to design her logo which was is an eagle and a few other things but in the center was the was a blue shield with the stars arranged like in the Austrailian flag - I was a little disappointed in doing that as I had vision of all of the great logos like the WILTSIE's orange tiger and so on - so it is a pretty mild logo in comparison. But one of those things you look back on and think - that was cool Mike Donegan Navydaze Naval & Aviation Artist -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: Mike Settle Subject: Re: Fleet Boat Black >> A while back, in a discussion about Measure 9 paint for USN W.W.II Fleet boats someone suggested not using a straight black (or flat black). Instead they suggested lightening the black to a gray (grey), maybe even suggested a Testor's match. Anybody with a better memory or faster search recall what was suggested? << Look in the Floquil model railroad paint line for weathered black. It is a very dark gray (grey). Mike Settle I wish I was in London, or some other seaport town. Set my foot on a steamboat, and sail the ocean 'round. Sailin' across the ocean, sailin' across the sea, Thinking of my Molly, where ever she might be. From the song "Handsome Molly" I am not agent #1908 of the non-existent Lumber Cartel (tinlc)tm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: Mike Settle Subject: Re: First ship by Tony Ireland Great story, Tony. Thanks. Mike Settle I am not agent #1908 of the non-existent Lumber Cartel (tinlc)tm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Infomation -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: maeisen@erols.com Subject: Washington DC area SMMLcon 2000 Folks: The Washington DC area SMMLcon will be held on this Sunday, December 10, from 1-3 pm, at Nostalgic Plastic, a hobby shop in Silver Spring, Maryland. Nostalgic Plastic is located at 2425 Linden Lane, Silver Spring, Maryland. It is about 5 minutes south of the DC beltway. To get there, take the DC Beltway (I-495) to Silver Spring, and exit at Georgia Avenue SOUTH. Merge onto Georgia Avenue, continue south for less than a minute, pass the stop light at Seminary Place, continue straigh another hundred feet or so, then turn right at the second light (i.e. the next light) onto Seminary Road (do not be confused by the sign for Columbia Blvd; the right turn at the second light is indeed Seminary Road). Go down Seminary Road a minute or so, and continue straight onto Linden Lane when Seminary Road veers off to the left at the elementary school. Continue down Linden Lane a minute or so more until you get to the strip mall on the right, and pull into the parking lot there. Nostalgic Plastic is located at 2425 Linden Lane, and Nostalgic Plastic Automotive, where we will be meeting, is located at 2417 Linden Lane. If you find yourself going over an overpass and at the Walter Reade Army Medical Clinic Annex, you've gone too far by a few hundred feet. If you get lost, you can call the store at (301)565-0565, and they should be able to help you with directions. See you this Sunday! Michael Eisenstadt -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "WEM" Subject: NEW RANGE OF MODEL WARSHIP PAINTS FROM WHITE ENSIGN MODELS White Ensign Models are delighted to announce a new range of enamels for ship modellers. This will be the only range of paints available on the market which hold the official Snyder and Short seal of approval. John Snyder will be handling quality control so that you, the modeller, will get a consistent product. Enamels have been chosen over acrylics as most small scale ship modellers prefer to use them The paints are being manufactured and packaged in the U.K., in tinlets (like Humbrol) rather than in bottles .. and we anticipate first availability around March with the release of the most commonly-used US Navy and Royal Navy colours. These paints will be made available to hobby dealers worldwide, and we aim to establish a worldwide distribution network. They will also be available directly from ourselves. This is a very exciting project for us all, and one which Dave and I had considered doing for the last couple of years. Now we have the "official" blessing of John Snyder and Randy Short, we will be moving very quickly to bring these products to the market. Just one piece of advice guys.. SPREAD THE WORD!!!! Best, Caroline Carter, Business Manager, White Ensign Models http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models/plist1.htm (Plastic and resin kits, GMM brass sets, Books, Paint Chips and Videos.. updated!) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Ray8017@aol.com Subject: 1/96 ships for sale For sale plank on frame kits on the Fletcher Destroyer, Gato sub, Sub chaser, Arleigh Burke made by BaD ship models 1/.96 scale ray8017@aol.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://www.smml.org.uk Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://www.tac.com.au/~sljenkins/apma.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume