Subject: SMML VOL 1090 Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 00:44:21 +1100 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: HMS Warspite Query 2: Re: Japanese naval aircraft colors/Tone-Chikuma question 3: Japanese aircraft colors 4: Answer & Question 5: Re: Arizona 6: KM Gneisenau colors 7: Re: Arizona 8: Re: HP Models 9: Re: Model Warship Journal?? 10: using watercolors for weathering 11: Question 1 - Russkies Buzzing US Ships off Alaska? 12: Question 2 - Heroic Self-Sacrificial Scenes? 13: Question 3 - Stolen Sub Plans? 14: Model Warship Journal?? 15: Bringin' the kids up right 16: STAFF STANDARD TEXTS 17: SMML Trivia 18: Off topic - Weather Information 19: USS Arizona on the Bottom 20: Re: Arizona 21: COAST GUARD WARNS WWII VETS AGAINST SAILING RELIC ACROSS ATLANTIC 22: Artitec Website 23: Trivia 24: Revell Arizona instruction sheet 25: WHERE CAN THE NEW TRUMPETER KITSET OF HMS AURORA (AKA CHUNG KING) BE FOUND? 26: Japanese Aircraft Colors 27: Re: Prince of Wales Help -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Infomation 1: Washington DC area SMMLcon 2000 report -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Site update 2: New books arriving soon -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Adrian J Davies" Subject: HMS Warspite Query Dear Shane, Regarding WEM's 1/700 Warspite (1942), I am building this superb kit at the moment, using Ross Watton's Anatomy of the Ship, and Jim Baumann's Model photos as primary references. However, I've reached a bit of a grey area, it concerns the two HACS Directors either side of the Admiral's bridge,(Resin parts 85, and etched parts 32), on the kit instructions this area is a bit vague, and comparing the Kit to the Watton Drawings it looks as if there are two pillars that these two pieces site on, that are not represented in the kit, also I'm a bit confused about which way up and which is fore and aft on these pieces. other than that the Kit is superb, it's also the first ship I have ever built, and I'm enjoying it immensely. Thanks. Thank You Adrian Davies -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "J. Ed Low" Subject: Re: Japanese naval aircraft colors/Tone-Chikuma question I am in the process of building a detailed digital model of Tone. The ship is being build using information from a variety of sources including, but not limited to the references already mentioned - Lacroix, Warship, Profile Morskie, etc. Although it is far from complete, there are detailed digital renderings of the hull, bridge, and funnel posted on my site. The URL is: http://www.ijn.dreamhost.com/Model%20-%20CA%20Tone/Model%20CA%20Tone.html Since I will also be building aircrafts for this ship (most likely 'Jakes" at this point), I would also be interested in any information on this subject and any information on this ship which has not been already mentioned. Thanks Ed. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Dave Pluth" Subject: Japanese aircraft colors Hi Jeff, >> IJN shipborne carried IJN N2 Green on the upper surfaces, A/N 1 Light Gray on the undersurfaces, << The color was not grey. You can read the current research yourself at http://www.j-aircraft.com/research/otherres.htm The grey color has been held (incorrectly) for many years as the colors of many Japanese aircraft. This is simply not true. A fair out of the bottle match for the actual color is Pollyscale Concrete from their railroad colors. Over the Christmas holiday there should be an article posted by Jim Lansdale with photos of all of his relics (he's got a bunch) and you will also be able to see the comparison for yourself. There is also an article about Pearl Harbor there that has some photos of real pieces. Hope this helps. Dave Japanese Aircaft & Ship Modeling Homepage www.j-aircraft.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: TechnoInfidel@webtv.net (John Collins) Subject: Answer & Question Greetings all: The Patrol Craft manned by an all black crew to which Jeff Hearne referred is PC-1264. The captain was Eric Purden. who wrote an account of his wartime experiences entitled BLACK COMPANY. He was (is) a white man. I am uncertain as to the race of other officers. I built one of the IS PC-461 class boats as this ship. Question: I know we've gone over this problem several times in the past, but I have a different twist for it. Warped resin hulls. I know how to use hot water to work out the warp. I even tried the light bulb method that had been suggested on the list, but that took hours, even days to cure the warp. I understand that plastics, including resin, have a memory. I have found that months after working out the warp, the hull will slowly return to it's original shape -- warped -- albeit not quite a badly as before, but still noticeable. How can this be prevented? I had posed a question to the group a month or so ago about the Regia Marina 1/700 RN Carini, a Italian WWI vintage torpedo boat that served through WWII. Could the kit be back dated to it's WWI configuration? No one had a answer, but I bought the kit anyway -- it was cheap. The kit itself ultimately answered my question. The kit provides parts and instructions to build not only Carini, but every class member from the time they were built in WWI until they were sunk of decommissioned. How many other kits can claim to do that? The kit is also a little jewel. I may have to get another. Building models other than ships. I build what I like or whatever I am paid to build. I regularly build planes, occasionally armor, I've even built a car or two. But, by the same token, I've been told that I am a modeling slut. I have no shame. Models is models. As the Festival Season approaches, I extend my best wishes to all of my shipmodeling brothers and sisters. Live long, love longer, and build well. John Collins Atlanta, GA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Steven P. Allen" Subject: Re: Arizona >> A local modeler,Glenn Staubitz(sp?) . . . .created a large diorama model of the Arizona in its present state for display at Pearl Harbor a couple years ago. He told us they(the US navy) sent divers down to sketch and I would imagine photograph(tape?) her as reference material for him. << There is a Sea Classics article on Arizona's current condition (well, current as of that survey) that's been reprinted in at least one of their Special Editions. It includes the drawings done and a few photos. I don't have access to my copies just now, but maybe someone else can provide a month/year. Steve Allen -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "M.J. Warman" Subject: KM Gneisenau colors At the Channel Dash Scharnhorst's camouflage pattern have been documented but what about Gneisenau's. The few pictures I have seen seems to suggest the she was in an overall dark grey that Scharnhorst carried later in her life or is the picture just dark because of the conditions that day. Any help appreciated. Thanks...Mike -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: Craig R Bennett Subject: Re: Arizona Hi Guys About studying the Arizona under water reminds me of a story I heard about it. Back in the mid 50's they were going to remove the Arizona to put in piers along Ford Island where all the concrete parking markers were for Battleship Row. They sent down to 2 hard hat divers with torches and when they started working to use them it caused an explosion from gases inside the Arizona and the divers were killed. They didn't remove the ship. Craig -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: SteveWiper@aol.com Subject: Re: HP Models >> This appears to be a prolific producer of resin kits according their lists. Can any SMMLies comment on their general quality. They show an extensive range on their website but no photos. << I have seen there kits, and despite what some "Critics" have said, these are pretty darn good models. I just saw the 1/700 SMS Scharnhorst armoured cruiser kit, and it was great! I recommend them. Steve Wiper www.classicwarships.simplenet.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: SteveWiper@aol.com Subject: Re: Model Warship Journal?? >> Has issue 2 of the Model Warship Journal ever come out? Also, can't seem to find the URL for them. Can someone provide it. << That would be "Model Ship Journal", and yes it has! You can find a direct link on my own site, www.classicwarships.simplenet.com, right at the top of the home page. I believe vol. #3 is at the printers now. Steve Wiper -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "Ken Goldman" Subject: using watercolors for weathering Like RhinoBones, I use watercolors for weathering - especially when it comes to getting realistic rust and corrosion - but the easiest way to use them is simply to add a single drop of liquid soap as a wetting agent. There is no need to use alcohol. Ken Goldman THE WALRUS AND THE CARPENTER unique wood sculpture and fine scale models www.walruscarpenter.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: Ned Barnett Subject: Question 1 - Russkies Buzzing US Ships off Alaska? Anybody got the inside on this news-blip the media's backing off of? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: Ned Barnett Subject: Question 2 - Heroic Self-Sacrificial Scenes? I'm in a multi-ship diorama mood, and I'd like your help ... I was reading about the HMS Glowworm and the Hipper (in Churchill) and thought this would make a marvelous diorama. I'm always intrigued when the victim turns on the attacker, especially if it's a sacrificial move. I'd like to do others, so ... Can anybody relate to me a World War I or World War II incident (such as occurred with HMS Glowworm) where a small ship turned on a much larger one to save others (obviously San Bernadino Straits is another classic example). For example (I'm making this up, but hope it happened) torpedoed liberty ship ramming a sub so the convoy could slip clear would be a great one - if I had the details. Other acts of heroic self-sacrifice would also be appreciated. If you know of one of these, please tell me - even a battle name or date/location would help - if you know of sources to help me research these dioramas, so much the better. Thanks Ned -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Ned Barnett Subject: Question 3 - Stolen Sub Plans? That American who was convicted (and who now looks to be pardoned) was accused of stealing Russian sub (or torpedo) plans - which he claimed were declassified and public knowledge. Anybody know where one might find these declassified plans for at-home plastic amusement purposes? BTW - that whole thing was a political set-up - conspiracy buffs contact me privately Ned -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "John Sheridan" Subject: Model Warship Journal?? >> Has issue 2 of the Model Warship Journal ever come out? Also, can't seem to find the URL for them. Can someone provide it. << Do you mean Model Ship Journal ? If so, issue 2 should be out any day now. I'm sure Victor Baca will chime-in here any second now and explain *exactly* where issue 2 is at this time. Issue 1 and issue 0 (the premier issue) have been out for quite a while. BTW, Model Ship Journal's URL is: http://www.modelshipjournal.com/ John Sheridan The only human to defeat the Minbari is behind me, you are in front of me. If you value your lives, be somewhere else. : Delenn -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: Timothy Dike Subject: Bringin' the kids up right >> I'm in big trouble now. Went out shopping for a birthday present for my 3-year-old and found this great, huge rubber/plastic 31" long Independence-class supercarrier complete with a six-plane diecast airgroup. I knew he'd love it. << Way to go Marc! I know that you, I mean your son will really enjoy it. I remember the huge cardboard Nimitz class CV that I bought for my sons Christmas present several years ago. We had a lot of fun with it. Regards, Timothy Dike Webmaster and Editor ModelWarships.com http://www.modelwarships.com/index1.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "Phil M. Gollin" Subject: STAFF STANDARD TEXTS Very off-topic, however does anyone know the standard texts that are used in the USN Staff College to cover the following; 1(a) General US (and specifically USN) policy up to Pearl Harbor 1(b) General US (and specifically USN) policy during WW2 in the Pacific 2(a) USN strategy and tactics re. submarine warfare during WW2 2(b) German strategy and tactics re. submarine warfare during WW2 (Any known changes in known texts over the years would also be interesting). I realise that most historical teaching will include large amounts of tutorial and individual lecturer input, however with the number of officers going through Staff Training a basic reading list is probably produced. Thanks, Phil -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: Felix Bustelo Subject: SMML Trivia Hi Jeff and everyone, PC-1261 was the first USN ship to have an entire crew of African American sailors. Veigle's book mentions her and I remember seeing a book on the Naval Institute website on this specific ship. Regards, Felix Bustelo International Maritime Modeling URL: http://members.tripod.com/~Febus65/imm.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: Felix Bustelo Subject: Off topic - Weather Information Hello SMMLies, My apologies for using this forum to ask this question, but I know that some SMMLies are from Italy and I have a question to ask. My wife, Lori, and I are contemplating a taking a trip to Italy in January, February or March and we are wondering what the weather is like in Rome, Florence and Genoa that time of year. Please reply directly to me at imm_web_master@yahoo.com so not to clutter this forum with this any further. Thanks, Felix Bustelo International Maritime Modeling URL: http://members.tripod.com/~Febus65/imm.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: Joel Labow Subject: USS Arizona on the Bottom The Arizona Memorial Museum Association publishes (or did) a 112 page paperback entitled 'Remembering Pearl Harbor - The Story of the USS Arizona Memorial' which contains a large section of underwater photos and 4 perspective drawings of the wreck. I picked up my copy last time I was there in 1987: there is a postcard in the book which indicates that that copies are available for $7.95 + $3.40 priority mail or $1.95 book rate from the Association at: #1 Arizona Memorial Place Honolulu, HI 96818 Could a more recent visitor confirm if this book is still available and/or if the price has changed? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: Keith T Bender Subject: Re: Arizona Hi SMMLies, The Arizona was measured, video taped and drawn out in 1984 or 85. I had a book about the memorial being built but gave it to my grandfather so I don't have it in hand to give all the info. I will see him next weekend and try to get the book. I also have a video that shows allot of underwater footage of her. This video is the one that has former officer Joe Langdel and Japanese flyer Zengi Abbi. They go to the memorial together while it was video taped, very moving video to watch. I also have a book about the Arizona and Utah as then and now. It too is very good in showing alot of underwater photos and drawings of bothe ships. I'll Be Back, with more info, KTB -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: Robert Vancel Subject: COAST GUARD WARNS WWII VETS AGAINST SAILING RELIC ACROSS ATLANTIC Fearing for their safety, the Coast Guard is urging a group of World War II Navy veterans to scrap plans to sail a 58-year-old Navy ship across the Atlantic Ocean from Europe to Alabama to become a floating museum. .... http://www.cnn.com/2000/US/12/07/returning.warship.ap/index.html Robert "Dr Al Roberts" Vancel/oWf Al Team # 78 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: Donald Bridge Subject: Artitec Website Hi Guys Artitec do currently have a website at http://www.xs4all.nl/~artitec/ I wrote to them recently asking them about the future and they stated they will be producing more ships but no more modern 1/700 (Which is my personal interest). They are going to concentrate on 1/350. Re HP Model, John where's their web site I've been looking for it for months. Particularly for the modern soviet stuff as NNT only list kit numbers 001, 006, 011, 012, 014 & 015, I really want to know what the rest are. Don Bridge -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: "chenyangzhang" Subject: Trivia Hi John You could be right but given the names of other monitors I'd always assumed that it referred to Prince Eugene de Beauharnais, Napoleon's step son. Chris Langtree -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24) From: Burl Burlingame / Pacific Monograph Subject: Revell Arizona instruction sheet Do any of the Smellies out there have a copy of the original instructions for the Revell USS Arizona kit? The one with the donation request? The Arizona Memorial would like a copy for their archives. Burl Pacific Monograph, 1124 Kahili Street, Kailua HI 96734 808-263-6087 buzz@aloha.net A historical interpretation company. Visit our web sites at http://www.PacificHistory.com/ and http://www.PacificHistory.net "He's supposed to be dead. This is vexing. I am terribly vexed." -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 25) From: "NICK & JOY ROGERS" Subject: WHERE CAN THE NEW TRUMPETER KITSET OF HMS AURORA (AKA CHUNG KING) BE FOUND? Hi Folks, I can recall a SMML recent posting on a Trumpeter (1/350 ?) scale kit of the 1934 Arethusa Class 6" gunned Light Cruiser HMS Aurora.Basically a truncated or 3/4's Modified Leander Class design with X turret left off.Ended up in the hands of the Chinese Navies,firstly Nationalist then Chairman Mao's. Can anyone provide the website of an Internet Hobby Store which stocks this Trumpeter kit? Have any reviews of this kit been posted yet? Thanks for your attention. Regards, Nick Rogers, Auckland,New Zealand. (once home port of two Leander Class Cruisers- Leander & Achilles) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 26) From: "Tom Eisenhour" Subject: Japanese Aircraft Colors My esteemed colleague (and damned nice person) John Snyder wrote: >> Bob, you've probably inadvertantly and unintentionally darkened your sample yourself. Linseed oil-based paints darken and yellow when stored away from light. << I personally don't know squat about paint analysis, so as a matter of interest I passed John's comments on to my OTHER esteemed colleague and good friend Greg Springer, who has been studying Japanese naval aircraft paint and colors for a LONG time. He replied: >> Japanese aircraft, like most everybody's in WWII were painted with nitrocellulose laquer [which do not contain linseed oil as a vehicle]. Jim Lansdale has had some tests of artifacts (including one from Iida's plane) done by the conservation lab at the Smithsonian. Their preliminary conclusion was that the colors haven't changed much since produced. It is known that nitrocellulose browns with age but not in a uniform degree. It varies by batch and exposure is a big factor. According to Jim, more tests are under way. I did read someplace that old enamels darken. One of the reasons for the dark hinomaru theory is that the war prize planes brought back after the war were given a protective coating which stained the red. The usual color is red like Testor's gloss enamel in the little square bottle. All of the artifacts at [the Nimitz Museum] are that color. << Regards, Tom Eisenhour -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 27) From: Timothy Dike Subject: Re: Prince of Wales Help >> Can someone let me know the names of the colours used in the final camouflage for HMS Prince of Wales (The Admiralty MSXXX and APXXXX designators)? Also, can anyone recommend a good source for painting information? << There are a number of good sources for painting her. Number one is the new WR Press book, on Royal Navy Camouflage part 1, (http://modelwarships.com/reviews/books-plans/wrpress/rn-camo1.html) use this to get the colors, Paint chips from Snyder and Short will help you match the colors exactly, and if you need some good ship pictures for reference check out Andy Elwood's buildup of her at: http://modelwarships.com/gallery/bb/hms-pow/350/pow-index.html Regards, Timothy Dike Webmaster and Editor ModelWarships.com http://www.modelwarships.com/index1.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Infomation -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: maeisen@erols.com Subject: Washington DC area SMMLcon 2000 report Folks: Our first Washington DC area SMMLcon 2000 was a huge success! We had a dozen (12) people show up, including one SMMLie from southern New Jersey! That's a 2 1/2 hour trek! Many brought finished models, or kits or books they bought recently, for show and tell. John Downing brought an old 4 foot long kit of the battleship Bismark (wood and plastic construction) that looked to be 40 years old-- at least, plus several 1:700 Japanese ships, including a nice conversion of the Akagi to her interwar appearance. Joel Labow had a nice buildup of the Flagship models CIW. Ray Montgomery (our SMMLie from New Jersey) brought six very nicely done 1:700 scale destroyers and cruisers (JAG Long Beach, Corsair Armada Phoenix, Waveline San Francisco, Corsair Armada Detroit, Skywave The Sullivans, and Waveline Pittsburgh). Charlie Parker brought a very nice scratchbuilt two-stacker tug. John Burch brought a few of his nearly 500 finished models, including a wonderful scratch built USS United States (America's first true super-carrier with twin angled flight decks and no island, that was scrapped before being completed in the late 1940s/early 1950s). Mike Leonard brought a whole lot of kits and books he recently procured (does your wife know about this Mike?). And Don Preul brough his splendid buildup of USS Bauer (a 1/192 scale Alan Sumner class destroyer converted for minelaying duties), as well as several sample cast hulls for larger ships he is working on. I apologize if I've left anyone's models out, but I'm working from memory! In sum, I think it's fair to say that a great time was had by all. I think a few new friendships were made, and there was general agreement that we should hold another meeting -- sooner rather than later -- probably in late spring. And our host, Chris Mikesh, of Nostalgic Plastic, said he would be glad to host us again! So I think we have a "thing" going. I will get back to y'all concerning prospective dates for our next DC area SMMLcon. And we hope that those SMMLies who were unable to make todays event, will be able to attend our next one. Until next time! Mike Eisenstadt -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Michael Dunn" Subject: Site update Hi all, Just a quick note to say the Archives are up-to-date & indexed, and the Hunley pics are on - all details in the History page. Mike SMML Webmaster -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Keith Butterley Subject: New books arriving soon Hi all, New shipment of naval books from Poland on its way. AJ Press: Tirpitz, part 1 Canada $30Cdn US & Int'l $20US UK 15GBP USS Lexington/USS Saratoga Canada $30Cdn US & Int'l $20US UK 15GBP BS Publishing(Profile Morskie) USS Gendrau, Matsu, HMS Brissenden Canada $24Cdn US & Int'l $16US UK 12GBP USS Selfridge Canada $27Cdn US & Int'l $18US UK 13.50GBP ISE Canada $27Cdn US & Int'l $18US UK 13.50GBP Minimum shipping rate: Canada $5Cdn US $3US Int'l $7US UK 5GBP There was one other book that I did not order, Korea 1950-53. It is suppose to be about the naval aspect of the campaign, if you think you might be interested, let me know. Price would be $33Cdn/$22US Regards Keith Butterley http://www.warshipbooks.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://www.smml.org.uk Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://www.tac.com.au/~sljenkins/apma.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume