Subject: SMML VOL 1096 Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 03:21:52 +1100 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: Battleship Row 2: Re: WEM Paints 3: Clermont 4: Paints 5: Re: Belfast 6: Re: Pearl Harbor "What ifs?" 7: Re: WEM Paints 8: Samek Models 9: Re: U.S.S. Quincy Update 10: Re: Diablo 11: WEM-paints and market research 12: Re: 1/350 H-46 13: Post War Carrier flight decks 14: Re: Clermont Ramblings 15: Re: deck paint 16: First U.S.Navy all-black crew 17: Re: Nevada torpedo damage........Steve A 18: Aurora 19: USS Arizona Books 20: PH What if's 21: Classic Warhips Books, & Indy story -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Infomation 1: APMA site update, news and a special offer!! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Ships for sale 2: GMM on Christmas Holiday -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Deke Wakefield Subject: Re: Battleship Row >> Does anyone know why Vestal was tied up by ARIZONA? << Per John Snyder in SMML Vol 719 (28 Nov 99) >> Know anyone who can get to VESTAL's War Diary or Deck Log for you? The requisite information may lie there. However, ARIZONA was due to depart on 12/13/41 for a yard period and overhaul. According to _Battleship ARIZONA_, VESTAL's forces were building a radar shack on the aft end of the signal bridge, so that it would be ready for the installation of equipment during the yard period. I suppose she could have been running electrical and Hydraulic lines for an upcoming installation of 1.1s as well, but without some research that's purely speculation. The radar shack, however, is a known item. << >> I am surprised NEVADA, which was astern, and wide open without any hindrance from another ship, didn't take hits like the OKLAHOMA or CALIFORNIA. << The torpedo bombers that made the assault on BB row made their approach from the southeast, so those ships on that quarter (CALIFORNIA, OKLAHOMA, and WEST VIRGINIA) took the brunt of the torpedo attack. >> Whats amazing too, is the fact that NEOSHO, the lowly little tanker, was 'spared' (not worth a juicy torpedo?) Had she been hit, the resultant explosion and fires could have spread to CALIFORNIA and engulfed her....dont know if there was a running current at Pearl. << You said it yourself. The Japanese mentality had it that ordanance should be directed against combatants first. I could be wrong, but I believe the roots in this goes back to the Bushido Code followed by the Samurai (honor dictates one only attacks those capable of fighting back). Then again, if you were a Kate driver and saw all those battleships lined up in your sights, would you even consider launching your single missile against a lowly tanker. That's the reason why their submarine forces never engaged in unrestricted warfare against our merchantmen, but instead concentrated only on warships. Perhaps had they known the NEOSHO was filled to the gills with high octane avgas, and by blowing her up they could've deep fried a good portion of battleship row, maybe they would have targeted her. There was definitely a current flowing in that part of the harbor. The burning oil from the ARIZONA drifted down that current and threatened to engulf the CALIFORNIA. The NEOSHO managed to move out of the way before this occured. The burning oil drifted away from the CALIFORNIA at the last moment. However, the call to abandon ship due to the threat (at a time when damage control to prevent her from sinking was crucial) signed her death warrant. The sad part is she was close to getting underway when the abandon ship order was given. I supremely doubt she could've gotten very far given the damage she received (perhaps to a drydock -- I sure as hell wouldn't have taken her out to sea in that condition). Still, it's an interesting factoid. >> The sub base, which went into action immediately and after the attack offensively, were relatively unscathed. I think all the Jap pilots wanted to bag a carrier or a battleship....and to drop a bomb or two after driving/flying all that way to hit a boring oil tank storage farm was, well, nothing to brag about back in the old debriefing room. << The plan had been to hit the drydocks, oil tank farms, and sub base as part of the aborted third attack wave that Nagumo chose to cancel. Derek Wakefield -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Felix Bustelo Subject: Re: WEM Paints Hi Folks, While I have used both types, I find that I have better results with enamels, so my preference is this. If the WEM line of paints are as good as the Humbrol line, in terms of how well they work with a brush or an airbrush, then we are all in for a treat. Question to Caroline et al: Will a paint thinner be offered as part of this line or will the label have a suggestion as to which brand would be suitable to use with these? Regards, Felix Bustelo International Maritime Modeling URL: http://members.tripod.com/~Febus65/imm.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "ormation, Edward D. Parent" Subject: Clermont I built a small model of Clermont back in the 1950s sometime. The model is long gone but I still have the prints. They are copy righted 1949 from the Ideal Aeroplane & Supply Co. The scale is not marked but appears to be at 1 inch=10 feet. This kit as I recall came with a rough carved wood hull. The engine well was hogged out of the inside and you had to take it from there. There were a few lead fittings with the kit. Regarding the fate of this replica, ther is an excellent article in STEAMBOAT BILL-Spring 1997 by Alan Frazer. In this article there are many good photos of Clermont taken during construction, at the 1909 Exposition and afterwards. In this article he writes that, after the Exposition, she was laid up at her builders yard and sold in 1910 to the Hudson River Day line which agreed "...to maintain, care for, exhibit, and, when applicable, to operate the Clermont as an object lesson in the art of steam navigation". The vessel was first shown as a museum piece at Manhattan and later, Poughkeepsie as an attraction for Day Line passengers. Then there was a fire which burned the landing there and she was moved to Kingston Point where she could be seen but not visited. Gradual deterioration and prohibitive costs of restoration caused the company to break her up in 1936. Ed Parent -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "John Rule" Subject: Paints My 2d worth. I like enamels especially Humbrol. So WEM/S&S are on the right track for me. John PS I hope we don't need a supreme court decision to fathom this one out. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: PT191@aol.com Subject: Re: Belfast About the HMS BELFAST camouflage scheme: Write to the Imperial War Museum, they are a great resource. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: Roland Mar Subject: Re: Pearl Harbor "What ifs?" The fuel supplies at Pearl were in fact a prime strategic target, however the Japanese missed attacking it. This was not through ignorance of its value, nor through an overdose of their version of a warrior -v- warrior mindset [which did exist, strongly]. It was a case of Nagumo getting cold feet. He was sure that the American carriers were lurking about somewhere preparing to pounce on them. In Gordon Prange's works on the Pearl Harbor attack [about the most detailed data from the Japanese side available in English] and other works it is noted that Fuchida and Genda had as close to an Imperial Japanese naval officer's equivalent of a screaming fit at Nagumo as they could safely give after he gave the withdrawal order. The carriers were reloading the planes for a third wave as they argued. While I would have to pull out my notes, I believe Fuchida and Genda were backed by RADM Tamon Yamaguchi [ComCARDIV 2, HIRYU & SORYU], although far more diplomatically. Some years ago, when I was writing more actively for the Naval Institute, I did a monograph on the subject that was never published [way too long for an article, too short for a book (for now), way too depressing for the allied side :-) ]; but another writer friend showed it to some people. I was given to understand that a variant of it ended up at Newport, Rhode Island as a scenario [one of tens of thousands they have there, no great distinction] they pull out to throw at the students. So I would say that it is a pretty valid "what if?". At the very least, if they had hit the fuel supply, you could write off all of the US offensive operations in the Pacific, and likely the counters to Japanese moves, through 1943. I think it would have been worse than that. Roland Mar -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: Frank Allen Subject: Re: WEM Paints I for one am glad Caroline will be offering the new paintline as enamels. I definitely prefer them to acrylics. I applaud her efforts with the new paint line, and intend to buy a fair number of AP507A,B and C! Frank Allen Battle Cruiser Hood http://hmshood.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "Sean D. Hert" Subject: Samek Models Hello Everyone- Does anyone have some comments on the Samek Models kits of the TASCHKENT and the SAAR? I'm new to Resin construction, and was wondering if these kits would be suitable for a beginner. Thanks Sean D. Hert Columbus, OH USA "Measure with Micrometer" "Mark with crayon" "Cut with axe" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "Devin J. Poore" Subject: Re: U.S.S. Quincy Update >> I am also in the process of rebuilding my resin kit manufacturing business, no thanks to a few individuals, so there is no rest for the weary! << I just received the Yorktown and Portland books in the mail today, and they are fantastic as usual. I'm glad to hear that the resin kit business will be back on track; I've been driving Pacific Front nuts these past 6 months calling up and asking "Is my HELENA kit in yet?" Devin -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "Steven P. Allen" Subject: Re: Diablo >> Did the Diablo ever get deployed for miltary operations using the Matador and did the Royal Navy ever show any interest and send observers to the Diablo? I mean the UK and Spain are Nato members. Any one know? << I have an issue of Sea Classics somewhere that includes an article on a joint op between the RN and the SA. At that time, they wereoperating mostly off the RN carrier (I don't remember which), but they showed a pic of both Brit and Spanish carriers in one TF and mentioned RN ops off the Spanish flattop. Steve Allen -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Jens H. Brandal" Subject: WEM-paints and market research >> Your idea of accurate paints is a nice idea but I think your going the wrong way about it. You need to do some market research first. << I think that sounds a bit arrogant, as I do think that John and Caroline and the others at WEM have given thought as to what medium they prefer for their paints. Just becaus they didn't fall down on your preferred choice doesn't mean they didn't do their homework. Enamels and acrylics do have advantages and disadvantages. One of the disadvantages of enamels is that the lighter colours like white tends to yellow over time, whereas my models painted in Tamiya acrylics are still brillinat white fifteen years after painting them. Enamels do brushpaint more easily - especially Humbrols. Acrylics are generally too fast-drying for successful brushpainting, and I would think that most people painting ships use brushes (Rusty White being an honourable exception though...). Having said that, I have been able to get good results when brushpainting Tamiya acrylics (the most widely available acrylic paint here in Norway) by thinning with "condensation remover" or 2-propanol used to prevent icing in carburettors and injection petrol engines. Thin to a translucent, not quite covers in one coat consistency and go over it several times. A small drop of flow enhancer will also work wonders. Still, for this purpose, I will vote for enamels. Jens -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: Timothy Dike Subject: Re: 1/350 H-46 >> I am looking for H-46 helicopters in 1/350 scale to add to my Tamiya Enterprise flight deck. Any help would be appreciated. << There is none that I know of but White Ensign Models makes a 1/350 Chinook H-47 (#WEM FD012) that even comes with etched brass. This helo can be modified into an H-46. The airframes are similar with the exception of the landing gear and engine area. You can sand the bottom of the wheel area off and add a stub wing for the rear landing gear area. Also the H-46 has it's engines embedded in the fuselage, so build this area up with putty. You might also want to touch up the cockpit as the H-47 has a stepped nose, while the H-46 windscreen sloops gracefully down to the nose. Of course you will use a tripod landing gear versus the quad setup on the H-47. For an example of this please refer to the ModelWarships.com Gallery to see the one Kelly Quirk did (http://www.modelwarships.com/gallery/bb/bb62/bb62-kq-index.html). I think Kelly reads this list so maybe he can go into a little more detail. If not post your question on the ModelWarships.com message board as well. Timothy Dike Webmaster and Editor ModelWarships.com http://www.modelwarships.com/index1.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Timothy Dike Subject: Post War Carrier flight decks I've broken out of my WW2 mode long enough to do a post WW2 conversion of a Ticonderoga class CV into the USS Boxer CVS-21. I know the ship was Haze gray, but what shade was the flight deck in the 55-56 era? Also the photo's that I've seen show her with her original 5" open and twin mounts, and with twin 3" guns in place of the quad 40's. But what light weapons did she retain? Were there any 20 mm guns still mounted along the flight deck? Thanks in advance for any info. Timothy Dike Webmaster and Editor ModelWarships.com http://www.modelwarships.com/index1.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "Art Herrick" Subject: Re: Clermont Ramblings Subject: Color pictures of a CLERMONT MODEL and an addendum to my 15 December post to SMML about CLERMONT information. See: Models of American Sailing Ships, with a descriptive text by Robert E. Peabody, Anderson Gallery of American Art (AG), Phillips Academy (PA), Andover, MA. This book is a small (8"x6" - 115 page) color photo pictorial of a collection of 24, 1:48 ship models built for the AG in the late 1930s and exhibited as a collection, starting in 1931, CLERMONT being one of them, and was built by Capt. H. Percy Ashley, who built six of the 24 models. There are two color photos and a b&w lithograph of CLERMONT. The first color photo is a over-head close-up of the engine and paddle wheels. There is a temporary bulwark, in way of the paddle wheels, attached in board of the open wooden railing. There are no guards or boxes shown for the paddle wheels! The second color photo is an overall view of the CLERMONT, from about 3 Pts. on the Port Bow, with the following note. "Model was built fom Fulton's original specification [149ft OAL]. It was subsequently lengthened by 17 feet [to 166ft] and remodeled". Note: See Nautical Research Journal, Vol. 33, No. 2, June 1988, p. 26 to 35, The North River Steamboat CLERMONT ... the text about her rebuild says her length was not changed but her beam was increased 3ft, to 16ft.?? The author of this article, with plans of her re-build, was Frederick Aesbacher. He had an addendum to his article in NRJ, Vol.33, No. 3, September, 1988, p.162, which has a extensive bibliography for CLERMONT and a detailed drawing of her boiler and engine. This exhibition of 24 models was again put on exhibit at the AG from September 1994 through March 1995. It is not known if the CLERMONT model is presently available for viewing at Phillips Academy? The lithograph is by F. Berthaux a Dijon, "A view of West Point on the River Hudson, with the steamboat built by Mr. Fulton." A note states: that the lithograph show CLERMONT after she was lengthened to 166ft and remodeled. The image of CLERMONT is only about 1 3/4" long, but you can see the spray shields have been extended aft, increased in height, and are mounted outboard of the railing. It also looks like some semi enclosure and guards have been added to the paddle wheels? Art Herrick Westmoreland NH Member: Nautical Research Guild USS CONSTITUTION Ship Model Guild -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: Craig R Bennett Subject: Re: deck paint Hi Guys Thanks for the replies on the deck paint .I have S&S paint chips so I guess that standard deck gray was #20 Deck gray from the choices for the paints issued in 1944-5? A dark gray? Craig -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: Fkbrown90@aol.com Subject: First U.S.Navy all-black crew There seems to be some semantic differences about what is the definition of "100% all-black crew". The vessel I was referring to was the WW2 subchaser numbered PC1264, which was considered as having a "100% all-black crew". But subsequent responses by SMML subscribers maintain that on that vessel, the captain was white, and the exact racial (if I may use that word in the most general sense) mix of the other officers is questionable. If one restricts the term "crew" to mean enlisted men only, then the PC1264 seems to be the first all-black manned ship. Ted Treadwell, a recognized authority on subchasers (he skippered on in WW2) who maintains an excellent website on the subject, describes,in his book list, a book about this ship, as follows: "Black Company, The Story of Subchaser 1264" by Eric Purdon, published by Robert B. Luce Inc., Washington-New York, 1972. This is a great true story about PC 1264 which was a warship manned 100% by Afro-Americans as part of an experiment conducted by thr Navy to prove that the color of one's skin was of no consequence when it came to running a ship and going to war. PC1264 distibguished herself and performed so well that she, of all the PCs built durinng the war, was the one selected to be honored in a giant "Navy Day" celebration in New York City in October 1945 when President Harry Truman reviewed over fifty warships on the Hudson River after their return from victory. However, an alert SMML suscriber submitted another vessel, the U.S.S. Mason (DE529) as the first all-black crewed U.S. Naval vessel, But there is doubt if the crew was predominately black, or was it 100% black. I must confess that because of my extremely limited access to archival facts, I must turn to the prodigious talent pool of SMML, and request your help in determining just what ship did indeed have the first all-black enlisted crew. and when was this true. An interesting extension of this subject would be determining if such a crew exists today. Personally, I doubt it, as that could be deemed by some as racisism, or even segregation. Okay, you avid naval historians, there's the challenge for you! I say this because I perceive SMML to be a team effort to determine the facts about naval and maritime institutions. I have "hit the wall" on this one. One subscriber mentioned an official Navy press release which referred to the PC 1264 as putting to sea with an all black crew of 5 white officers and 50 black enlisted crew men. But the normal complement for those ships was 3 officers and 24 men. These figures are obviously questionable, 55 people on a ship designed for 27 seems to be not valid. Franklyn -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: Lump518176@aol.com Subject: Re: Nevada torpedo damage........Steve A I just quickly checked several of my sources here, and they all conclude that Nevada was hit by one torpedo, in the bow, during the intial phase of the attack. Obviously, one "Kate" figured out the angle of attack!! I want to know why the Japanese wasted torpedos in the target ship Utah. Does anybody know off hand what the torpedo hit ratio was at Pearl Harbor? They (the Japanese) had a very high hit percentage, and no doubt, the aerial torpedo was the decisive weapon for the IJN Kido Butai. Jerry Phillips -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: "Nigel Ward" Subject: Aurora Further to query in SMML 1094, saw a AURORA in a model shop in Gloucester ( Antics ), but it wasn't boxed as Lee, it was a Russian import, in one of those cheap cardboard monochrome boxes, with no English at all! There were also some other sailing ships, which I couldn't identify, as my russian is non-existant. The ABPOPA was priced at around £15 Also in Gloucester, I managed to pick up, in a local discount shop, two modern 1/700 warships, the Ticonderoga, and the Merrill, both under the Hypa (?)/Lee label. Although of different classes they share the same hull. As I'm not a modern warship maker is this correct?. Any idea on the origins of these models? I only really bought them as they were absurdly cheap ( £4 the pair!!). The quality isn't too bad, but dont know what the fit is like yet. Dave Ward -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: Schiefet@cs.com Subject: USS Arizona Books Joel Labow wrote - >> Could a more recent visitor confirm if this book is still available and/or if the price has changed? << Greetings, This may be a little late but, try the e-mail address below for the Arizona Museum Book Store. http://www.weblane.com/arizonamemorial/bookstore/ There are about 2 dozen Pearl Harbor related books listed and an e-mail address to contact the Museum. I bought several books using this method in 1997. Also when visiting the museum in 1999, I picked up a couple more books. Regarding the submerged survey of Arizona, I am not aware of a video tape, but in 1999 I did purchased of "Submerged Cultural Resources Study, USS Arizona Memorial and Pearl Harbor National Historic Landmark" 1990 edition (199 pages) at the museum in Pearl Harbor. It briefly covers the damage to all ships and describes attacking aircraft. The majority of the book is about the salvage of the Arizona and the underwater survey. There are several fold out pages with the drawings made by the diving team. If anyone is interested in the "current" state of the Arizona, I highly recommend this book. Other Arizona related soft cover books: USS Arizona Ship's Data - Freidman, Baker, Lott, Sumrall Pearl Harbor and the USS Arizona Memorial - Wisniewski Remembering Pearl Harbor, The Story of the USS Arizona Memorial - Slackman I am fortunate to have received a copy of the 50th Anniversary program showing an arial view of the memorial with Arizona showing through the water. This was a gift from a friend who visited there the week of the anniversary. Best wishes to all for a Happy Holiday Steve Singlar Pelham, NH (Where we finally had snow, now washing away with two days of rain) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: Schiefet@cs.com Subject: PH What if's From: stillmo@mb.sympatico.ca >> I too have wondered many times the what if scenarios. Does anyone know why Vestal was tied up by ARIZONA? << VESTAL'S CREW WERE BUILDING A "RADAR SHACK " AND THE PEDESTAL FOR THE RADAR TO BE INSTALLED IN PUGET SOUND. SHE WAS SCHEDULED FOR A QUICK TRIP TO THE COAST FOR THE INSTALLATION. >> When exactly did the battle fleet tied up at Pearl, was it Friday afternoon, was work to be done on ARIZONA requiring the repair ship alongside? << I BELIEVE I READ THEY RETURNED ON FRIDAY. (ALSO SEE ABOVE) >> I am surprised NEVADA, which was astern, and wide open without any hindrance from another ship, didn't take hits like the OKLAHOMA or CALIFORNIA. << THE AREA WHERE NEVADA WAS TIED UP WAS PRETTY NARROW. THE OTHER SHIPS MENTIONED WERE, PRETTY OPEN IN THAT THE TORPEDO PLANES COULD COME IN FROM "TIN CAN ALLEY" IN THE SHIPYARD, GIVING THEM MORE ROOM FOR THE ATTACK. >> What's amazing too, is the fact that NEOSHO, the lowly little tanker, was 'spared' (not worth a juicy torpedo?} Had she been hit, the resultant explosion and fires could have spread to CALIFORNIA and engulfed her....dont know if there was a running current at Pearl. << I MET A SURVIVOR OF THE NEOSHO ABOARD THE USS SALEM IN QUINCY. HE WAS AT PEARL HARBOR AND WAS ABOARD WHEN SHE WAS SUNK AT CORAL SEA. (HE WAS ALSO ABOARD THE QUINCY WHEN SHE WENT DOWN AND WAS ASSIGNED TO THE USS CANBERRA, BUT WAS TRANSFERRED TO THE USS ST. PAUL. HE WAS IN TOKYO BAY FOR THE SURRENDER.) HE COMMENTED THAT THE JAPANESE PLANES STOPPED SHOOTING WHEN THEY PASSED OVER THE NEOSHO AND RESUMED STRAFING AND BOMBING AFTER THEY PASSED OVER. THE CREW WAS TERRIFIED AS THEY WERE FILLED WITH AVGAS AND THEY ALL EXPECTED TO BE INCINERATED AS THE CREW OF THE ARIZONA WAS. LATER IN THE BATTLE, NEOSHO BACKED OUT AND I BELIEVE TIED UP ELSEWHERE IN THE HARBOR. I KNOW HE TOLD ME, BUT I CANNOT REMEMBER. REGARDING THE RUNNING CURRENT, THERE IS A SLIGHT CURRENT DRIFTING OUT TO SEA. YOU CAN SEE THIS IN THE ATTACK PHOTOS AS THE OIL DRIFTS FORM THE ARIZONA TOWARD THE OTHER SHIPS. WHEN I VISITED LAST YEAR, THE OIL WEEPING FROM ARIZONA DRIFTS TOWARD THE MOUTH OF THE HARBOR. THERE IS A GOOD "WHAT IF" BOOK WHICH ADDRESSES THE PEARL HARBOR ATTACK, BUT I LOANED IT TO SOMEONE. IN THE BOOK THE AUTHORS SPECULATE ABOUT A THIRD WAVE ATTACK, THE US CARRIER TASK FORCE CATCHING UP WITH THE JAPANESE CARRIERS, THAT SOME BB'S SURVIVED AND THAT THE OIL TANKS WERE HIT. INTERESTING WHAT IF READING. ONE THING THAT REALLY STRUCK ME IN 1999, WHICH I DID NOT OBSERVE WHEN I WAS FIRST IN PH IN 1969, WAS JUST HOW SMALL THE HARBOR IS. I AM SURE THERE WAS PLENTY OF BUILDING SINCE 1941 AND LIKELY SOME OF THE HARBOR AREA WAS RECLAIMED FOR FACILITIES. BUT YOU HAVE TO HAND IT TO THOSE PILOTS. Steve Singlar Pelham, NH -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: Schiefet@cs.com Subject: Classic Warhips Books, & Indy story Let's hope one of the books Steve is researching is on the New Mexico class Battleships. :-} The cover drawing on Steve's Portland Class Cruiser book is excellent. But, the drawing on the back cover is overwhelming. When you look at it you can almost hear the ship breaking up and the water sizzling as it hits the fire rooms. Well done Steve! I have a friend, now retired, who was a Marine on either Guam or Tinian when the Indy pulled in. The Indy transferred a couple of Marines off the ship who were due to go home. They asked for volunteers and my friend's CC volunteered him. The CC wanted to give him a chance to see the surrender, which everyone felt was coming soon. Fortunately for my friend he was on a POW guard detail. One of the torpedoes hit the Indy's Marine compartment..... Steve Singlar Pelham, NH -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Infomation -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Shane Subject: APMA site update, news and a special offer!! Hi gang, The APMA site has just been updated with more ship pictures to go with the ones already there, including the following: Updated the HMS Cavailer, CMBs, HMS Belfast, USS Cassin Young, SS Jeremiah O'Brien and Portsmouth pages. Plus more assorted ship shots with more pictures of other OT subjects to come in the near future. Also various other pages have been updated - check out the update page. Issue 4/99 now goes on general sale as well. Also, we have a special offer going for all new members (ie: anyone who has never been a member of APMA before) - join up & get an extra magazine free from our existing backissue stocks - a complete list of what is available is on the website. This is above and beyond the 4 magazines & 4 newsletters you get for the price of membership. Also, as of issue 4/2000 all issues will be laser printed. Regards, Shane APMA VP http://www.tac.com.au/~sljenkins/apma.htm Having FUN making models -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Ray8017@aol.com Subject: Ships for sale FOR SALE brand new Fletcher, Gearing and Forrest Sherman class Destroyer kits made by BaD ship models 1/96 scale plank in frame construction...also Sub Chaser and Perry Class Frigate. ray8017@aol.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Loren Perry Subject: GMM on Christmas Holiday Merry Christmas, everyone - Gold Medal Models will be going on Christmas Vacation from Dec. 20 through December 27th. We'll be in Palm Springs, CA visiting relatives for the Holidays and will return on the 28th at which time we'll resume shipping orders. Up to the 20th, shipping will continue as usual. If your order is in transit and arrives after the 20th, it'll be a week or so before it will be filled and shipped. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://www.smml.org.uk Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://www.tac.com.au/~sljenkins/apma.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume