Subject: SMML VOL 1097 Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 22:31:35 +1100 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: WEM Paints 2: Hornet CV-8 3: Re: First U.S.Navy all-black crew 4: Re: paints 5: Re: CW books 6: Re: paints 7: Re: PC 1264 all black crew 8: Re: Aurora 9: Re: types of paint 10: Re: What If Scenarios: Pearl Harbor 11: Samek Saar/Warship Update 12: Re: Pearl Harbor Damage and salvage 13: Re: Aurora 14: Re: Enamels please 15: French Carrier an (almost) floating disaster ... 16: Re: Nevada Torpedo Damage 17: Battleship Row 18: Re: Samek Models 19: Re: Battleship Row 20: HMS Belfast Camo 21: L-M Class Destroyers/HMS Laforey 22: Adaptor to mate Paasche braided hose with an Aztec Airbrush? 23: Re: WEM / S&S Paints range 24: Classic Warship's Indy book 25: Re: Battleship Row 26: Flower Class Corvette: HMS Monkshood 27: Re: Russians "buzz" KITTY HAWK 28: Re: Artitec 29: Cabot -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Books for Sale -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Chris Drage" Subject: WEM Paints Just have to add my two penn'th in this one...... Well done Caroline and John for getting this much needed resource to fruition. I am personally delighted that the range will be lauched in enamels as you can't really beat them for brush painting and ships need to be brush painted - just as they are in reality! Can't wait to get my hands on 'em. Regards Chris He tao rakau e taea te karo kupu kaore e taea te karo (Te reo Maori) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Keith T Bender Subject: Hornet CV-8 Hi SMMLies, How about a Hornet question for you, CV 8 that is. Was her flightdeck stained during the Doolittle raid or was it still natural wood. How about the two stripes painted on it for the B 25s, white or yellow and did they go all the way aft? Thanks for the help, Keith -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: ALROSS2@aol.com Subject: Re: First U.S.Navy all-black crew If you read Purdon's book, you'll note that the names of the crewmembers who served throughout her commission are listed in the back. There are about 150 names. This makes sense, as the ship was in commission for several years. In the initial pages of the book, he notes that while a large number of blacks were involved in the early stages of training, only 50 were actually selected to man the ship. Only three of the original crew were aboard when PC 1264 decommissioned on 7FEB46. Purdon notes that on that date there were five officers and twenty-eight enlisted crew aboard. On page 249, he states that, unlike the MASON (DE 529) which had a "...predominently black enlisted complement...", PC 1264 had "...a totally black..." enlisted complement. If you can find a copy, it makes a good read. Al Ross -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Craig R Bennett Subject: Re: paints Hi I wasn't being arrogant. It just that eight years ago the guys who started S&S took over a publication called NEWS - Naval Enthusiasts of the World Society. Unfortunately they didn't get much support. I had sent in an article or two. The way it was presented made me think about the IPMS chapter I'm in and I noticed that acrylics are pretty much in use. Now this is economic issue if a person wants to buy enamel or acrylic that's their choice. I would never tell you what to buy just that it sounded like a nice idea and can't hurt to ask. Craig -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: SteveWiper@aol.com Subject: Re: CW books >> I just received the Yorktown and Portland books in the mail today, and they are fantastic as usual. I'm glad to hear that the resin kit business will be back on track; I've been driving Pacific Front nuts these past 6 months calling up and asking "Is my HELENA kit in yet?" << Devin, I am working on the 1/350 Helena and Brooklyn, plus the 1/700 Wichita, to get all three out ASAP. Unfortunately, I will have to remake a large number of molds, this after fixing the actual patterns, which were badly damaged. The patterns are now fixed, as of today, and will start casting new molds in a little more than a week from now. The pattern for the Pearl Harbor version of the battleship Tennessee in 1/350 has also be repaired, and that kit will come out next. New molds for a lot to the other kits will have to be made as I progress, so this will be a slow rebuilding. Construction on a dedicated cast shop is to begin sometime in Jan., so hopefully, I should be cranking out kits at a steady pace by this summer. I still am going to release a Cleveland and Miami at that time, and plan on a few exciting new kits, among which, a 1/200 SMS Goeben, which I have been commissioned to build will be released by the end of the year. As to books, so many good subjects to do! I am working towards a book on Japanese battleships, German W.W.I battlecruisers, American battleships, American cruisers, American destroyers, American carriers, Modern US, and would like to do something on the Australian cruisers HMAS Australia & Canberra. So which do I do, and in which order? Thanks, Steve Wiper -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: SteveWiper@aol.com Subject: Re: paints >> Still, for this purpose, I will vote for enamels. << I am with Jens on this one. I have the pleasure of knowing Dave, Caroline and John personally and would say that they know what they are doing. I like to throw John a curve ball about ship colors, just to see what kind of info he will give, as we share our ideas and research results. I have used both types of paints, and actually like to combine them to achieve the desired effect I am looking for. We have some acrylics, and now we will have enamels. In this hobby, be glad that anyone is making anything! Steve Wiper -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: WVeigele@aol.com Subject: Re: PC 1264 all black crew Franklyn, In response to your posting about PC 1264, here is some information. Among the 361 WWII subchasers designated PC Patrol Craft was PC 1264. It started with a mostly black crew except for leading rates. Similarly Mason (DE 529) did the same. However, the DE never had an all black crew. The PC did when men were promoted and the leading white rates left the ship. Significantly also, PC 1264 was the first ship in the US Navy then to have a black officer aboard. Ensign Samuel Gravely was the first black man to integrate a USN ship's wardroom. He later became the country's first black Admiral, and retired as Vice Admiral. After Gravely, other black officers came aboard PC 1264. Ted Treadwell is the author of an excellent book only about the wooden hulled SCs. Eric Purdon's book is a thorough account of PC 1264. I am the author of the first and only book only about PCs. My book contains accounts of the exploits of PC 1264 and a separate section about the history of PC 1264, who was behind the experiment, how it came about, and its consequences. A typical complement of an SC was 24 men and 3 officers. A typical complement of a PC, such as PC 1264, was 50 men and 5 officers. For more information about PC 1264, all other PCs, including many detailed exact dimension drawings for modelers see: Wm. J. Veigele, PC Patrol Craft of World War II – A History of the Ships and Their Crews. Details of the book can be viewed from http://www.astralpublishing.com or at http://members.aol.com/wveigele/pcraft/pcraft.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: SteveWiper@aol.com Subject: Re: Aurora >> Further to query in SMML 1094, saw a AURORA in a model shop in Gloucester (Antics), but it wasn't boxed as Lee, it was a Russian import, in one of those cheap cardboard monochrome boxes, with no English at all! There were also some other sailing ships, which I couldn't identify, as my russian is non-existant. The ABPOPA was priced at around £15 << Nigel, I do believe you have boarded the wrong ship! You have found the old Heller Russian cruiser Aurora, in 1/400 scale, I think now made by Smer? Wrong ship, wrong era, wrong war, and wrong kit. Sorry. We others are looking for a kit made by Lee of China of the ship formally known as HMS Aurora, a British Arthusa class light cruiser, same class as the famous HMS Penelope. Steve Wiper -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "Jim Johnson" Subject: Re: types of paint I am looking forward to WEM bringing out their own line of paint. Most of the major manufactures have abandoned us. I would like to ramble on a little about the type of paint (enamel Vs acrylic). I have been building models, mostly plastic and resin, for about 35 years now. I have tried every brand that has shown up on the hobby shop shelves over the years. I have brands of paint tucked away that people in the hobby for 20 years have never heard of. I have and do use enamel, acrylic, lacquer, dope and fingernail polish. There are many sub-sets of each of these types, i.e. acrylic lacquers, cellulose lacquers etc. but for the purposes of this discussion we don't need to go into those. I used enamel paints in the beginning because that was all their was. When acrylics first came out (Polly-s) I tried it and immediately declared it wanting. I went back to my favorites which were Floquil and Humbrol. I used these until recently. I started using Aeromaster acrylic on aircraft because of the colors available in the line, plus they were pre-lightened for a scale effect. I had trouble at first with them because they didn't work the exact same way as enamels. After a while, I developed procedures for working with acrylics and now I would not go back to enamels for anything. Let me say that a good enamel is better than a bad acrylic and vice-versa but all things being equal (which they never are) I would take acrylic over enamel every time. It just plain works better. So put my vote under acrylic. I don't know if WEM and S & S have made arrangements to have the paint blended in enamel because that is the only option they have or if they could still change to acrylic, but here is one item to put into the con column for enamel. For some time now there has been rumblings about the state of California outlawing any paints containing volatile hydrocarbons. If they do, then the domestic manufactures might drop all of their hydrocarbon enamels and go with acrylic. If WEM use enamels, then they couldn't be imported into California, but could be imported into the other 49 states. At least for a little while. Every big government, statist, anti-liberty idea gets it's start in California. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: stillmo@mb.sympatico.ca Subject: Re: What If Scenarios: Pearl Harbor Thanks for the feedback info, guys. I didnt mean to start a whole new thread on this subject as its been done to death prior to me coming aboard the SMML listings. .....perhaps we should drop the subject now as its becoming repetitive. Ray Bean Hi Ray, et al, Please don't drop the topic just because it may be repeating old posts from the past. SMML is always getting new subscribers - they and long time lurkers may be able to add something new to the mix. Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: Rob Mackie Subject: Samek Saar/Warship Update >> Does anyone have some comments on the Samek Models kits of the TASCHKENT and the SAAR? I'm new to Resin construction, and was wondering if these kits would be suitable for a beginner << There is a review of the Samek 1:700th SAAR on the Warship site at: http://warship.simplenet.com/Samek/Saar/Saar.htm The Warship site has nearly 200 reviews of ship model kits and accessories as well as many articles and a model gallery with hundreds of built-up models on display. There is also a lively Warship Message Board. This weekend's Warship updates include Steve Backer's reviews of the JAG 1:700th USS Albany and the Iron Shipwright 1:350 USS Conyngham (Mahan class destroyer). Rob Mackie Warship http://warship.simplenet.com Be There -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: William Swan Subject: Re: Pearl Harbor Damage and salvage Re: Fleet Damage and Salvage at Pearl Harbor For those of you looking for the Official US Navy version of salvage and damage with photos and descriptions go to Pearl Harbor: Why, How, Fleet Salvage and Final Appraisal by Vice Admiral Homer N. Wallin, USN, United States Government Printing Office 1968 A copy of which I was able to pick up in a thrift shop for $1.00 recently. William Swan -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: RhinoBones@aol.com Subject: Re: Aurora >> Further to query in SMML 1094, saw a AURORA in a model shop in Gloucester (Antics), but it wasn't boxed as Lee, it was a Russian import, in one of those cheap cardboard monochrome boxes, with no English at all! The ABPOPA was priced at around £15 . . . Any idea on the origins of these models? I only really bought them as they were absurdly cheap (£4 the pair!!). The quality isn't too bad, but dont know what the fit is like yet. << I am just finishing up a copy of the Aurora and overall I have been rather pleased with the kit. Even though the individual parts needed quite a bit of cleaning up, the parts fits together well and the details are acceptable. I was quite happy the after gluing the two hull halves together that the deck fit snuggle into position and required very little shaping. Except for drilling out all of the port holes, and replacing all of the molded on ladders and railings with PE, my build is basically an out of box build. The fact that it is a full hull kit, and in my favorite scale (1:400), doesn't hurt either. I have painted it similar to the Aurora parked at St. Petersburg, circa 1917, grey above and green below the water line. After I build a suitable display base I'll take a few pictures for uploading. Maybe even write up a descripption of the build using the in process pictures. The molds for the Aurora, and also the Potemkin, seem to be shared by several companies in the Russian Federation and in the Ukraine. If you are interested in ships from this era and willing to dress it up just a bit, I think you'll enjoy building this kit. When you find one at a decent price, pick it up. Regards, RhinoBones -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Enamels please I have always preferred to use enamels above acrylics. Mostly because the cleanup of the airbrush is still an easy thing to do if the enamels dry in the airbrush. Once acrylics dry in the airbrush it's a major pain in the rear to clean it up. Give me enamels. Rusty White Flagship Models - Photo Etched Details for Warships http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ We now accept Visa & MasterCard world wide via Pay Pal "Yeah I want Cheesy Poofs" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: Ned Barnett Subject: French Carrier an (almost) floating disaster ... Read this report and prepare to be amazed - it sounds like the Russian Navy in recent years ... http://kevxml.infospace.com/info/kevxml?kcfg=upi-article&sin=200012161117470 004083&otmpl=/upi/story.htm&qcat=news&rn=00935&qk=10&passdate=12/16/2000 France has no seaworthy aircraft carriers PARIS, Dec. 16 (UPI) -- The French news media continued to denounce Saturday what it is calling a national embarrassment that -- for the first time since 1945 -- France has no aircraft carrier. As the French daily Le Parisien put it, France actually has two aircraft carriers, but neither is seaworthy. There is the newly-built $2.6 billion plus nuclear-powered Charles de Gaulle, now in dry dock in Toulon after one of her propellers shattered on her first, long test voyage. The other carrier is the obsolete French vessel, Foch -- now in dry dock in Brest -- newly named Sao Paulo, and under repair before being sold to the Brazilian navy. But the issue infuriating critics of the French Navy and bureaucracy is the 14-year saga construction of the Charles de Gaulle, widely viewed as one of the worst scandals in military purchase history. During sea tests this year, the propeller broke as the ship entered the Bermuda Triangle. And as investigators prepared to look into why the propeller was defective and placed on the ship, a fire broke out in the factory in Nantes where the propeller was constructed. Destroyed in the blaze was correspondence between the factory, the defense ministry and the French navy on the design, building and acceptance of the ship's four 19-ton propellers. The French government has initiated a criminal investigation into construction of the boat. Other faults have afflicted the Charles de Gaulle - Europe's first nuclear-powered carrier since her construction began in 1986. Listed by the dailies Le Monde and France-Soir as other faults were: -- the need to extend the flight deck because it was too short for a US-built surveillance aircraft; -- the need to modify the nuclear generators to satisfy safety regulations; and, -- discovery that the thick, armored glass on the bridge was nearly opaque; and, -- then even the ship's laundry washing machines caused problems. As originally bolted together - when used simultaneously - the vibrations were so powerful that the entire 40,000-ton ship shivered. In the words of Liberation, repairs expected to keep the vessel in Toulon for the foreseeable future, present failings and a mystery capable of coming from a John Le Carré spy novel. ``Someone must pay for these acts which are akin to sabotage,'' said Jean-Louis Naudet, general secretary of the French Shipyard Workers Union. And quoted in Le Monde Friday, National Assemblyman and former chairman of the defense committee, Jean-Michel Boucheron, said of the situation: "I don't believe for a moment that this was a coincidence... Something has gone wrong in the most serious way.'' Copyright 2000 by United Press International. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: Richa5011@aol.com Subject: Re: Nevada Torpedo Damage >> I want to know why the Japanese wasted torpedos in the target ship Utah. << The berth occupied by the Utah (along with the other berths on that side of Ford Island) on the day of the attack was normally occupied by the Sara, Lex and Enterprise. Though the attack force had been told not to expect carriers, they still did dedicate some aircraft to strike the ships in those berths...just in case. Nat Richards -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: cfrieden@calpoly.edu Subject: Battleship Row Derek writes: >> You said it yourself. The Japanese mentality had it that ordanance should be directed against combatants first. I could be wrong, but I believe the roots in this goes back to the Bushido Code followed by the Samurai (honor dictates one only attacks those capable of fighting back). Then again, if you were a Kate driver and saw all those battleships lined up in your sights, would you even consider launching your single missile against a lowly tanker. That's the reason why their submarine forces never engaged in unrestricted warfare against our merchantmen, but instead concentrated only on warships. << I do not wish to say that your argument is right or wrong, but your submarine example is incorrect. Japanese submarines did engage in unrestricted warfare against American merchantmen. In fact, the first ship sunk in American coastal waters was the Emidio, a US tanker sunk 18 miles off the coast near Crescent City, California. She was torpedoed on December 20, 1941. Japanese submarines sank many more merchantmen during the course of the war. In many cases the submarine crews would machinegun and/or attempt to ram survivors in lifeboats. The Japanese subs in the Pacific may not have been as numerous as the Atlantic U-boats, but they were a very real threat to US Merchant Marine sailors. Chris Friedenbach -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: "Bob Pearson" Subject: Re: Samek Models Sean, I have four of the Samek kits with more on the way. The Tashkent looks to be a fairly easy build straight from the box. Note however that all smaller weapons need be created from rod or (better yet) a Skywave accessories set. I did a first look at this and the Type VII destroyer at: http://www.internetmodeler.com/june2000/first-looks/samek_tashkent.htm Regards, Bob Pearson Managing Editor / Internet Modeler http://www.internetmodeler.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: SolidStump@aol.com Subject: Re: Battleship Row >> I could be wrong, but I believe the roots in this goes back to the Bushido Code followed by the Samurai (honor dictates one only attacks those capable of fighting back). << Derek you romantic...you believe in the Akira Kurosawa samurai just like they were Hollywood cowboys. Samurai bloodshed was infamous. When an enemy was defeated in a castle assault, women, children and servants in the household were disemboweled or beheaded. They tested newly forged blades on bound prisoners. A commoner was not permitted to look a Samurai in the eye on pain of immediate death from the warrior...even if the look was accidental. Check out "20th century samurai" attrocities in China, Philipines etc. Sick and starving US and British prisoners were regularly brutalized by army officers. There was no "western" concept of mercy. Honor was of a twisted sort....disabled warriors should kill themselves not get better to fight another day!!!! Read about Miyamoto Musashi, the "greatest" samurai in Japan. He wrote the Book of Five Rings. He survived a few hundred personal sword duels. Techniques for winning included showing up 2 hours late for a duel so his challenger would have to wait sweating in the hot sun with no water. Those aviators were just ordered to get the big ones. The excitement of an attack on the home base of the "western devils" was enough to eliminate any "thinking". Battle is not like computer simulation gaming....s__t just happens naturally. Simon Scheuer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: maeisen@erols.com Subject: HMS Belfast Camo To the individual who inquired about the colors worn by HMS Belfast; please do a search of past SMML issues using the search engine on the SMML home page. There have been a number of detailed discussions on this topic in SMML in the past. Happy surfing! Yours truly, Michael Eisenstadt -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: maeisen@erols.com Subject: L-M Class Destroyers/HMS Laforey Folks: I am now reseaching possible camo schemes for my HP Models HMS Laforey kit (I will build her as another ship in the class since the kit is not configured as a flotilla leader such as HMS Laforey). In the course of my research, I came across a book which has been invaluable: "Fighting Flotilla: HMS Laforey and Her Sister Ships" by Peter C. Smith. Unfortunately, the copy held by the Naval History Center library was vandalized; ALL the photographic plates were torn out by someone! And while the copy held by the Library of Congress had many of the photographic plates intact, the photo plates that held the greatest interest for me had been torn out by someone as well! What a shame and a disgrace. BTW, anybody who hopes to do research in the Naval History Center library in Washington DC should consider themselves forewarned. Unfortunately, many of the books held by this great library have unfortunately been vandalized in this manner, and many of the books are missing their photographic plates. Anyhow, I would like to get photocopies of the photographic plates between pages 128-129 (inclusive) of the Smith book for my own private use for research purposes (as far as I understand the copyright laws, this should not be a problem). Is there anyone out there who has this book who would be willing to photocopy the plates and send them to me? I will gladly reimburse you for all charges incurred. I will be also adding an additional installment on building the the HP HMS Laforey kit in a the coming days, as I have started asssembling her, there are some minor challenges involved here. However, I still think its a fine kit for experienced builders. Thanks for your help! Yours truly, Michael Eisenstadt -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: maeisen@erols.com Subject: Adaptor to mate Paasche braided hose with an Aztec Airbrush? Folks: Would anyone know where I can get an inexpensive adaptor so that I could use my Paasche braided hose with my Aztec 470 airbrush? Bare Air sells such a kit, but the hardware costs more than $20, and I'm looking for a cheap, simple solution. Can anyone offer any suggestions? Thanks! Yours truly, Michael Eisenstadt -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: Ken Hoolihan Subject: Re: WEM / S&S Paints range I strongly support WEM's choice of enamels for their new range of paints for ships. I have used both enamels and acrylics in the past and have a clear preference for enamels from that experience. Whilst I have found both to give equally good results for airbrushing, enamels are definitely superior for handpainting due to their slower drying time. As a consequence, handpainted matt enamels tend to level out better than matt acrylics. This results in less evidence of brush strokes and a thinner layer of paint which is less likely to obscure detail - especially important on 1/700 scale ships. Overall, I think enamels are more versatile and are therefore the way to go. Ken Hoolihan -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24) From: Ed Grune Subject: Classic Warship's Indy book >> The cover drawing on Steve's Portland Class Cruiser book is excellent. But, the drawing on the back cover is overwhelming. When you look at it you can almost hear the ship breaking up and the water sizzling as it hits the fire rooms. Well done Steve! << Yes Steve, the Indy/Sweet Pea book is very well done. I looked for picture credits for the rear cover art and found none. Can you please share the credits with us. Thanks Ed Mansfield, TX -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 25) From: Ives100@aol.com Subject: Re: Battleship Row >> The sub base, which went into action immediately and after the attack offensively, were relatively unscathed. I think all the Jap pilots wanted to bag a carrier or a battleship.... << Ignoring the submarine base ultimately proved very costly. Initially, submarine operations were relatively ineffective, due to the lack of aggressiveness by the captains (prewar training doctrine led to overcaution) and the infamous "torpedo problem" (actually 3 separate technical problems). But, in the end, 2/3rds of Japanese merchant shipping sunk would fall prey to the submarine force. In addition,many valuable surface unit of the IJN, including 8 aircraft carriers, would fall victim to the "Silent Victory" of the fleet submarines. Tom Dougherty -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 26) From: "Richards, John" Subject: Flower Class Corvette: HMS Monkshood I am interested in any information I can find on HMS Monkshood. I know that she was a Flower Class Corvette commissioned on 17.4.41, her pennant number was K207, she survived the war, and was sold off as a merchant ship. I am building a model of her as a surprise gift for a guy who sailed on her in the Atlantic. Having no photos of this particular ship, I am particularly interested to know whether she carried her pennant number on her hull and what camouflage schemes she may have appeared in. Any assistance that anyone can provide would be gratefully received. John -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 27) From: Roland Mar Subject: Re: Russians "buzz" KITTY HAWK In discussing this incident, it came out that the photos the Russians e-mailed to the KITTY HAWK and to the Brit press were ...... annotated, in Russian. If anyone has a copy they can post or forward to me with the Russian text available, I would appreciate it. If I can get a translation made, I will post the results. Thanks. Roland Mar -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 28) From: "Chant, Peter" Subject: Re: Artitec For anyone trying to get hold of them, the distributor for the Dutch Artitec models in the UK (and Poland) is: www.mdrdirect.com Peter Chant Plymouth UK -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 29) From: "Bonini S.r.l." Subject: Cabot Hi everybody and best Christmas Wishes from Italy ! As far as I know, the name of Cabot during the service in the Spanish Navy was DEDALO, not Diablo. Giusto Gallas -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "David Mullins" Subject: Books for Sale Hi, All! I have several issues of Steamboat Bill, Ships Monthly (UK), misc. books on ships & shipping. Also in the lot: On A Destroyer's Bridge (Holloway H. Frost, Cdr., USN) 1930 and A Layman's Guide to Naval Strategy (Bernard Brodie) 1943. Both books stamped US Gov't. Property from WW II. Best offer on the above. Email me off list for a listing. Also, anyone remember Staubitz of Buffalo & Super Scale ship kits from the '80s? Any still around? Thanks!!! David Mullins Amarillo, TX -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://www.smml.org.uk Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://www.tac.com.au/~sljenkins/apma.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume