Subject: SMML VOL 1098 Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 22:48:52 +1100 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: HMS Cochrane? 2: More on Clermont 3: Re: Samek Tashkent 4: Re: MONKSHOOD 5: Paint Types 6: acrylics vs. enamels 7: Re: CV-8 Hornet deck 8: Re: Hornet CV-8 Flight Deck 9: What's the difference? 10: Samek 1/700 Taschkent 11: Re: French Carrier an (almost) floating disaster ... 12: Re: Paints 13: Re: marmite 14: Battleship row... 15: white glue 16: Vosper Triple Hulled Warship Demonstrator 17: brush painting 18: Re: CW Books 19: Re: airbrush hose adapter 20: Re: 1/350 H-46 21: Re: Dedalo 22: The Two Auroras 23: Re: Paints 24: Re: Aurora 25: Naval Enthusiasts of the World (NEWS) 26: Re: HORNET CV-8 27: HMAS Yarra III -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Pletscher-Lenz-Schneider" Subject: HMS Cochrane? A friend of mine who is still off-line got a badge of HMS Cochrane. He got it from the inheritance of a German minesweeper squadron which was activated in the late 1950s and saw last active service in 1997. He - and me too - would like to know from which ship this badge might be. I couldn't find any HMS Cochrane in the fleet lists except of the Warrior-Class armoured cruiser of 1907. But I don't think that a badge of this ship was given to a German minesweeper. Has anybody any idea where this badge probably came from? Falk Pletscher -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "J.Pasquill" Subject: More on Clermont Had a chance to see the Ideal Toy Company plastic Clermont kit and it is definitely not the same kit as the Lindberg version. The ITC kit is smaller. I'd guess it to be about 1/110 scale though some others that responded said 1/125. JP -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Sanartjam@aol.com Subject: Re: Samek Tashkent Hi, I'm not familiar with the Samek Saar, but I have, and have done some work on, the Samek Tashkent. I think the Tashkent has been reviewed in Plastic Ship Modeler and in Internet Modeler. My personal feeling is that the Samek Tashkent is a very nice kit; it is very well molded, and seems to capture the lines of the Tashkent very well. It is not a very complicated kit, so would be a good first resin kit in that way, but it has a couple of drawbacks. First, the 5.1" barrels are supposed to be made out of rod that is supplied, but you would do better to find suitable barrels from your own stock. The light AA guns are also supposed to be fabricated out of rod and other parts that are supplied, but it would, again, be better to find something from your parts box. Also, some of the detail is engraved when it would have been better raised; a good example would be the hatches. If you do want to do the Tashkent, there is a new Polish book that deals with her; I would tell you about it, but I'm still waiting for Bill Gruner to get it to me! Perhaps a better first 1/700 kit would be the WSW Le Triomphant; it is really beautiful, and doesn't suffer from the drawbacks of the Tashkent kit. I think it was reviewed in the latest Plastic Ship Modeler. Hope this helps! Art Nicholson -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Les Pickstock Subject: Re: MONKSHOOD I've just looked up MONKSHOOD in my copy of John Lambert's excellent"Flower Class corvettes in WWII" There don't seem to be any pics of this particular ship but there is a mention that in august 1942 she was wearing a Red Funnel top from the band to the clinker screen designating her as a group leader. This book is written by, arguably, the leading authority on "Flowers" and can be taken as gospel. If your not familiar with the book its an indispensable aid to modelling the class. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Poore, Devin" Subject: Paint Types I, like Jim Johnson stated in his post yesterday, use all sorts of paints in my hobbies; acrylics, enamels, lacquer, oil and even nail polish (don't laugh, the pearlescent (sp?) colors are great for Sci-fi subjects!). I will pick up the WEM enamels when they come out, but my true hope is that they become so successful that they also branch out into the realm of acrylics in the future. I live in an apartment, so using any paint besides water based ones has to be regulated to small brush painting and touch up. I do 90% of my painting with an airbrush, and in my environment I just can't deal with the thinners needed to clean and thin the petroleum based paints. I guess it comes down to the fact that people will use what they are used to. I used to be a die hard lacquer fan, but had to change due to the reasons listed above; fortunately for me I found the new Badger acrylic lines that airbrush even better than the lacquers. Devin -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Ken Goldman" Subject: acrylics vs. enamels >> ...ships need to be brush painted - just as they are in reality! << Nonsense! There are various reasons to either airbrush or brush paint a given area of a ship model, but scale brush stroke?! In 1:700 scale, or even 1:350, airbrushing will give a better representation of the paint job even if the intricacies of the model require one to use a brush. >> Once acrylics dry in the airbrush it's a major pain in the rear to clean it up. << If acrylics dry in my airbrush, a brief soak in acetone, then some run through the brush cleans it right out. Ken Goldman THE WALRUS AND THE CARPENTER unique wood sculpture and fine scale models www.walruscarpenter.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "Mark Shannon" Subject: Re: CV-8 Hornet deck Keith Bender asked: >> How about a Hornet question for you, CV 8 that is. Was her flightdeck stained during the Doolittle raid or was it still natural wood. How about the two stripes painted on it for the B 25s, white or yellow and did they go all the way aft? << There is some controversy on this, as far as the stain is concerned. I have one reference that says the decks were stained blue by this point, several that have said not yet. The problems are: 1. There were two blue stains being introduced, one the experimental Atlantic (Norfolk Blue 250-N) the other a Pacific mix. Hornet was intended to be an Atlantic Fleet ship and brand new, but her transfer to the Pacific was at a time of rapid change and confusion and the flight deck camouflage stains were just ready to be introduced in December of '41. 2. Mahogany stain, prewar, and Norfolk Blue (250-N) stain aren't that different in B&W photography, so you have to look for other clues, but, 3. In the early days of the blue stained flight decks, the stain was slopped over the decks at a regular basis to keep them blue, and the painted lines were allowed to deteriorate, so they may not be very visible, so, My read of the Doolittle Raid photos is that the deck had been stained blue over the original mahogany color, which, since it had been put down first, had a habit of reappearing. By the time of Midway, the Hornet had a virtually solid blue deck, with the yellow stripes nearly obliterated by overstaining and wear. I seem to remember one photo, at least, that showed that the yellow lines had been broken up by painting every other fir timber frame with background stain by April, '42. By June, this was reduced to only one in every four frames left with yellow lines. By October, the lines were Deck Marking stain (251-N) in solid lines (?) from what we can see in the photos. The descriptions given for the B-25 take-off guide lines in '30 Seconds over Tokyo' were that they were white. I have also seen depictions of the mainwheel line in yellow and the nosewheel line in white. They were not both yellow. Traces of the standard lines were visible, but more obscure. Not a lot of help, I'm afraid. I interpret the evidence as pointing toward Norfolk Blue decks with faint chrome yellow dashed lines and fresh white solid lines for the B-25 guides. The blue would be modified by the mahogany reddish brown underneath it, with fresh and faded patches as the camouflage was 'refreshed', but this would not be too prominent, yet, because of relatively short in-service time. I am not sure about the length of the guidelines, but I do not believe they were full length. I think I remember reading that they would have ended somewhere around the level of the deck crane or the aft bridge area 1.1" gun tub. Mark -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "Edward F Grune" Subject: Re: Hornet CV-8 Flight Deck Keith asked whether the Hornet's flight deck was stained at the time of the Dolittle Raid. I just happen to have Steve Wiper's new photo history of the Yorktown class sitting next to me as I read this morning's mailing. On page 44 is a picture of the Hornet taken October 13, 1941 showing her being fitted out at Newport News. The deck looks light (unstained) and there are broad light deck markings in a dash-dot-dash sequence. There is also a narrower solid white {?} line down the middle of the deck. On page 52 there is a photo of the flight deck crowded with F4 Wildcats and SBC Helldivers. The photo date is Feb 28, 1942. The deck looks darker than before. On pages 54 and 55 are pages that show the Dolittle Strike enroute. The decks are packed with B-25s - and 5 F4 Wildcats on the bow, ahead of the bow elevator. The decks are dark and there are few noticeable markings applied to the deck. On page 54 you can see the whole deck width and there are no light markings. On page 55 there is a narrow, dark mid-deck line between the bow and the elevator. I've heard that there was a line that the Army pilots were to follow on their takeoff roll. The placement would ensure that the starboard wing had sufficient space to clear the superstructure. Ed Mansfield, TX -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: Keith Butterley Subject: What's the difference? Fellow SMMLies, I have no idea what the difference is between the following. I always thought they were just the small floaty things attached to the big floaty things. Pinnace Whaler Cutter Gig Launch Could somebody please enlighten me? Yesterday Chris Drage mentioned that: >> I am personally delighted that the range will be lauched in enamels as you can't really beat them for brush painting and ships need to be brush painted - just as they are in reality! << A few posts later Rusty White stated: >> I have always preferred to use enamels above acrylics. Mostly because the cleanup of the airbrush is still an easy thing to do if the enamels dry in the airbrush. Once acrylics dry in the airbrush it's a major pain in the rear to clean it up. << Does this mean our resident judge would pick the airbrushed model over the hand painted model, if there was no other criteria left that made a difference to two equally done models? Just asking, not trying to start a fight. We are all to gentlemanly for that Jim Johnson says, >> Every big government, statist, anti-liberty idea gets it's start in California. << This may explain why WRPress considers it the land of "fruit and nuts". Happy modeling Keith Butterley http://www.warshipbooks.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "Jana & Pavel" Subject: Samek 1/700 Taschkent Dear Sean, It has been a few days since your inquiry about the Samek models. The Saar question has been answered but not the Taschkent. I have both the model and the Profile Morskie. The Samek Taschkent is one of the early models produced by this company, and as such does not contain any photo-etch. The casting is of the same type of resin that Samek uses today. Casting is fair and crisp. The Kit contains the Hull, with the first level on the aft hull. Forward superstructure including forward funnel Aft funnel Main guns (x3) Torpedo tubes (x3) Number of detail parts on a thin carrier film Looking at the Profile Morskie, the general shape and arrangement of the model is correct. The length is 1mm too short, the beam is 0.27mm over. I do not think that this in any way makes a difference. All in all this is not a bad model, a little lacking in detail, perhaps, but accurate and an obscure subject. I would recommend the Profile Morskie # 29 "Taschkent" if you plan to build this kit as the plans are invaluable to the detailing. The torpedo tubes and AA guns are sadly lacking in any detail, and you probably should replace them. I must mention one thing. In looking at the plans and photos in the Profile Morskie, there seems to be a raised structure almost like a louve on the forward side of the superstructure, under the bridge. This is scribed on the Samek Model, but this needs to be raised. Hope this helps. Happy modeling! Regards Pavel -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: SteveWiper@aol.com Subject: Re: French Carrier an (almost) floating disaster ... >> -- then even the ship's laundry washing machines caused problems. As originally bolted together - when used simultaneously - the vibrations were so powerful that the entire 40,000-ton ship shivered. << Now this has some serious comedy potential! Question: How do you stop a French Aircraft Carrier from shaking? Answer: Use water softener in their onboard washing machines! Just humor, Steve Wiper -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "John Snyder" Subject: Re: Paints Hi All, and Merry Christmas from England! Ken Hoolihan nicely summed up why Caroline and I selected enamels for the new line of WEM/S&S paints. The choice was a conscious one, and not due to the lack of availability of acrylics. Enamels simply perform better for both airbrushing and brushing. As far as the banning of paints containing VOCs (Volatile Organic Compounds) from California goes, as a former environmental planner I can tell you that that bugbear has been kicking around in the background for years. Any such ban will not extend to 14ml containers of hobby paints; the real concern is large-quantity uses. John Snyder Caroline's fiancee and WEM-helper Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys http://www.shipcamouflage.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: SteveWiper@aol.com Subject: Re: marmite While visiting Ken Hoolihan, in Wellington, New Zealand, I also noticed he used Marmite, dyed blue to simulate rough seas for his ship model displays. Steve Wiper -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: Burl Burlingame / Pacific Monograph Subject: Battleship row... There simply wasn't time or the proper angle for the Kido Butai aviators to leisurely pick their targets. What folks need to understand is that individual ships weren't targeted at Pearl Harbor, berthing areas were. The only ship that became a target of opportunity was Nevada, after she got underway. Ships that left the harbor were to be attacked by the submarines waiting outside, and I don't mean the midgets. There were 20 fleet-sized boats around Oahu. Burl Pacific Monograph, 1124 Kahili Street, Kailua HI 96734 808-263-6087 buzz@aloha.net A historical interpretation company. Visit our web sites at http://www.PacificHistory.com/ and http://www.PacificHistory.net "Without William Jefferson Clinton, radio talk shows will be like deer ticks without deer." -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "Fredrycca Cerussi-Muntz" Subject: white glue Mike Ashey states in his excellent book "Basics of Ship Modeling" that he uses white glue to fill voids between superstructures and decks. What is meant by "white glue"? Any type of wood glue?? Jan Hi Jan, As a rule, any "white" wood glue should do. Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "nickbalmer" Subject: Vosper Triple Hulled Warship Demonstrator I recently saw a picture of the new trials vessel built by Vosper and DERA to test designs for a triple hulled warship. Does anybody know of any articles, web sites or other sources of information on this vessel? Regards Nick Balmer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: Gruffydd3@aol.com Subject: brush painting A question for Chris Drage: You said that ship models should be brush painted like the originals. Does this mean that you don't use an airbrush at all, or do you just brush paint small areas and details? Rick Morgan -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: Charlie Jarvis Subject: Re: CW Books >> As to books, so many good subjects to do! I am working towards a book on Japanese battleships, German W.W.I battlecruisers, American battleships, American cruisers, American destroyers, American carriers, Modern US, and would like to do something on the Australian cruisers HMAS Australia & Canberra. So which do I do, and in which order? << So much fun, so little time. I cast my vote for pre-WWII USN Destroyers, and maybe even WWI-era destroyers. Then after that, Essex class carriers, maybe? Pleeeeeease?????? (I'm sounding just like my kids, since it's just before Christmas. Ho ho ho!) Best Regards: Charlie -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: airbrush hose adapter Check out your local air compressor supply shop. It's in the automotive section of the phone book. You can get the parts you need there very cheap. Rusty White Flagship Models - Photo Etched Details for Warships http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ We now accept Visa & MasterCard world wide via Pay Pal "Yeah I want Cheesy Poofs" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: "Poutre, Joseph A" Subject: Re: 1/350 H-46 I am doing the same for my 1/350 AOEN (modified Glencoe NS Savannah). You will also need to trim down the side projections, as the H-46 has very short ones, just big enough for the wheel wells for the after landing gear. Also, you'll have to move the windows, since the H-47 and H-46 have different side windows in different places. Find a few photos - there are many different sites with photos of H-46s. Hope this helps. Joe Poutre -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: Craig R Bennett Subject: Re: Dedalo Hi In regards to the spelling of the Dedalo that I misspelled as Diablo there was no offense intended. Craig -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: "Mike Leonard" Subject: The Two Auroras As Steve Wiper stated, there were two cruisers named AURORA in the 20th century: the Russian WW1 vessel that is preserved at St Petersburg, originally released as a kit by Heller in 1/400 scale, and the RN warship of WW2, kit recently issued by Lee in 1/300. These are popping up on eBay quite regularly now, so there must be a steady flow coming from China. MWL -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: "Graham Walker" Subject: Re: Paints Hi Craig I am sure WEM don`t mind your comments, they happen to like to have input from modellers. You never know if the enamels take off they might just bring out the range in Acrylics if there is enough call for them, maybe you should get in touch with them and get the gen from Caroline. Best wishes Graham -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24) From: SolidStump@aol.com Subject: Re: Aurora >> I do believe you have boarded the wrong ship! You have found the old Heller Russian cruiser Aurora, in 1/400 scale, I think now made by Smer? Wrong ship, wrong era, wrong war, and wrong kit. Sorry. We others are looking for a kit made by Lee of China of the ship formally known as HMS Aurora, a British Arthusa class light cruiser, same class as the famous HMS Penelope. << There's one on (dare I say it) e-bay now. I bought one a while back. Haven't built it but the moldings look good. The hull looks wrong as the knuckle/bow flare is not well represented. The stem looks too thick also. Otherwise have not compared it to good plans. Simon Scheuer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 25) From: stillmo@mb.sympatico.ca Subject: Naval Enthusiasts of the World (NEWS) Hi Craig. Regarding your posting regarding enamel paints and relationship to NEWS or Naval Enthusiasts of the World that was birthed by Larry Gertner (where is that guy anyway), it was a case of a different time and a different place and not the right time or opportunity for an individual or individuals to come forth and bring a phoenix from the ashes of a good thing. S and S tried to carry the ball with all the support I could give them, and I commended them for their efforts. Good people like them have lives and families and it took a lot of their time and energies to start up not just a newsletter but a burgeioning magasine, on a shoe string budget. Remember this, out of this, PSM, Plastic Ship Modeller was born. NAVINFOTEL is a prime carryover from that, and I asked Dan Jones if I could carry on the logo into PSM as a small link. For whatever its worth, its a one or two man show, and no office staff of techs, but the magasine does get out. End of that. Further to the new enamel paints. The more choices of types, hues and shades we have the better. Im tired of all the airplane and tank folks having their plethoras of available paints, its our turn, right? To WEM et al, I hope you market your paint product line with accuracy and affordability in mind as I am sure you will. The more the merrier. Speaking of merrier, Seasons Greetings to everyone out there, safe and happy Christmas and may your tree be bedecked with boxes of resin and plastic ships......and lotsa paints. Ray D. Bean -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 26) From: Roland Mar Subject: Re: HORNET CV-8 Mr. Bender: I have a friend who is probably one of the greatest HORNET afficionados in the world. He has been a student of the HORNET since hearing the stories of his uncle who served aboard her until the end. Here is what he had to say: 1) The Hornet was fitted out and commissioned in measure 12 camoflage*. Post commissioning measure 12 modified was applied at Norfolk sometime before late February. All documentation and photographs (color and otherwise) indicate strongly that she always wore Deck Blue 20-B. 2) Deck stripes were applied at sea after leaving San Fransico. Everything I have seen indicates that the stripes were white. The possibility of their being yellow isn't very high given the brightness of the stripes in all photos, including the very poor light and dark weather conditions during the raid launch. Present on deck as Hornet left San Fransico were five F4F Wildcats at the bow with wings folded. Before stripes were applied the Wildcats were apparently moved to the hanger deck. 3) Several points that I have noted many folks missing while modeling or showing in their research regards the width of the stripes. Deck stripes did not extend all the way aft. They stopped aft of the amidships elevator at a point even with the aft end of the aft 1.1 AA gun tub. Most people correctly place a wider stripe outboard. A few miss that the thinner inboard stripe stops short of the bow, approximately 60 aft off the bow. One point that I've never seen anyone get is that the broad stripe is thin (identical width to thin stripe) from even with the aft of the amidships elevator to aft. I believe that the broad stripe was an actual width of 1 foot, and the thin stripe was 4 to 6 inches wide. Studying the photos and comparing the stripes to feet standing next to them and the deck fittings indicate this. *There were large white deck stripes on deck at commissioning, painted out around the time the modified scheme was applied. I hope this helps, and if anyone has additional information, please feel free to add it. Roland Mar -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 27) From: StewartGCook@aol.com Subject: HMAS Yarra III I need reference material for HMAS YARRA III. plans or photo`s i am finding very hard to source, can you help me. Regards Stewart -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://www.smml.org.uk Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://www.tac.com.au/~sljenkins/apma.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume