Subject: SMML VOL 1103 Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 23:47:49 +1100 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: PSM and other matters 2: Seasons Greetings 3: Re: Charles de Gaulle 4: U.S.S. Olympia - Gun Mountings for 5" Battery 5: Re: Finding used books 6: Re: Help identify painter 7: Re: painting 8: what colours 9: Re: French Carrier 10: Re: Help ID this painting 11: Karlsruhe 12: Floating Drydock Plans 13: BISMARCK & TIRPITZ SAILING TOGETHER + MARMITE DIORAMAS 14: Open lettert to Jacques Druel 15: Revell Snowberry 16: Painting Identification 17: Merry Christmas and a happy new year!! 18: Help identify this painting 19: Help identify this painting 20: Re: Chuck Duggie's toys -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS Hi gang, We'd like to wish all SMMLies a very happy Christmas/Hogswatch ;-). We hope that your modelling needs are satisfied on the day ;-). We'd particularly like to thank all those who lent us their support at a most difficult time earlier in the year. Also a big thank you to Mike & Lynn (who also puts up with this crazy list) Dunn for their continued efforts on the SMML site. Regards, Shane & Lorna In sunny (38C) Australia where the beer, wine & spirits are running free ;-) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Cooper, Mike" Subject: PSM and other matters Dear SMMLies Waes hal! Well, 1200 subscribers...I'm glad I didn't know that...I can't model with people watching!! Yep - congrats to Shane on a great list. I've found that it gives me just what I need - this year thanks to SMML I've found out new stuff on Swedish colours and Jap aircraft, which I wouldn't have got elsewhere, and got sucked into some fascinating research on RN?RAN colours. Oh...and there was that stuff about Marmite. Look guys, it was what toast was invented for! Vegimite - pah!! Never trust an Aussie if you want something sticky brown and foul tasting!! Plenty of chance for the real thing to be sampled as we comiserate over this Summer's cricket! PSM - Can I thank those of you who said nice things about my HMS Aristocrat article. If I can help with any of the references cited, would you like to mail me off list. It may mean putting up with a photocopy... Best wishes to one and all Mike Cooper Reading UK - where, hey, guess what? It's wet and horrible! But at least there's plenty of marmite. By the way, the fact that Wolverhampton et al got city status doesn't mean I'm moving! Sore losers, us? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Chris Drage" Subject: Seasons Greetings To all hands: I just want to wish all SMMLies everywhere my very best wishes for Christmas and the New Year. A special mention must go to Shane and the long suffering Lorna without whom we lucky folk would not be able to enjoy the banter, the news, views, gossip and those incrediably useful modelling tips from the fraternity. To Shane and Lorna may you prosper and flourish and I implore every SMMLie on the planet to raise a glass would join me in a vote of thanks for all your efforts during the past year. Long may SMML reign! Regards Chris He tao rakau e taea te karo kupu kaore e taea te karo (Te reo Maori) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: James Corley Subject: Re: Charles de Gaulle >> Speaking of irony, I remember well a self jamming B-1 bomber that gave some embarrassement to the USAF and costed far more to the US taxpayer than the problems of the CDG will cost to the French one! << But like the CDG, the US politicos wanted to save $$ and eliminated the designed DECM capabilities, since the B-1 was no longer expected to penetrate Soviet airspace. Now they howl loudly because it will cost more to add this equipment now (in current money, but about the same when indexed to 1984) so it can penetrate Serbia, Iraq and many other places with Soviet built defenses. Next thing you know, the CVX will be little more than an Essex sized platform - to save $$ of course - and they will complain that it won't be able to do the job of a Nimitz hull. Duh! Let the politicians raise the money, but let the generals and admirals decide how to spend it - within reason. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Peter Webster Subject: U.S.S. Olympia - Gun Mountings for 5" Battery Just need confirmation. The U.S.S. Brooklyn had Vavasseur mountings for the 5" battery, and was built a few years after the Olmypia. I know that when the Olympia was refitted between 1898 and 1914 a new 5" battery was installed on pedestal type mountings - and these are what are on the ship now. What I need to know is, did the Olympia have its 5" battery on Vavasseur mountings when first built?? Thanks, Peter Webster Sydney, Australia. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Ives100@aol.com Subject: Re: Finding used books >> I have a suggestion for those looking for used books online. Try typing in the authors name only, on any of the search engines that are on the net. I have found much better results with this method. << A great source is an outift called "Torpedo Junction", run by Mr. Rick Savel. A great collection of military books (specializing in submarines- what did you guys expect from me?) with an online and separate downloading catalog. He has naval and military aircraft books in addition to his specialty. I have bought from Rick on several occasions; very reputable dealer. Torpedo Junction is at: http://www.sonic.net/~books/ Tom Dougherty -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "J. London" Subject: Re: Help identify painter This same picture appears in David Shermer's book "WORLD WAR I" and, yes, it is identified as the 'Grand Fleet moving into line for the first barrage'. The Grand Fleet it is definitely NOT. The closest battleship has triple turrets and the only triples in those days were on Italian and Austro-Hungarian battleships. It is almost certainly a picture of Austro-Hungarian ships as the three funnel cruisers in the middle distance would appear to be ships of the SANKT GEORGE Class and I would guess the leading battleship is VIRIBUS UNITIS. It is also highly questionable whether the ships are moving into line for their first or any barrage considering the proximity of the cruisers on their port beam. The picture is either apocryphal or represents A-H ships at a review. I am sorry but I do not know the painter. Merry Christmas to all, Michael London -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: Pieter Cornelissen Subject: Re: painting >> I've had this jpg on my computer forever and have had no luck identifying the painter or where it is displayed. It is ostensibly the Grand Fleet steaming toward action at Jutland. << It's not, it is the Austro-Hungarian navy. It is the painting that is used on the cover of K.u.K. Flotte 1900-1919, by Wladimir Aichelberg. According to Aichelberg the painting is called "K.u.k.Eskadre in der Adria". It was painted in 1913 by August Freiherr von Ramberg and it is owned by the Vienna museum of War. The ship in the foreground is Viribus Unitis. I heve seen it miscaptioned as the Grand Fleet in a number of publications, which is really strange as the Viribus Unitis class was rather unique when seen from the front and the Erzherzog Karl class battleships in the background do not match any Grand Fleet silhouette that I know of. And Viribus Unitis flies the Austrian naval ensign..... I don't know of any way of getteing a repro. I do have the adress of the publisher of the book, maybe they can be of some help. Östereichische Staatsdruckerei, Verlag Österreich Rennweg 12 A A-1037 Wien Austria tel.: (++43 1)79789 333 fax: (++43 1)79789 502 While you're at it you might also try to get the book that is the source of this information. It is crammed with photographs and drawings of the Austro-Hungarian navy and it is a very good resource when building the new NNT or WSW kits of Austrian subjects. Pieter Cornelissen Delft, The Netherlands -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Taylor/tenVaanholt Subject: what colours I am building a 1/72 scale Flower class Corvette. [Revell]. I would like to know what colour the camoflage {green oblique triangle shapes} on the hull would be? Also do you have any colour pictures of the Corvette, other than the HMCS Sackville. Which has been helpful. I have about 32 yrs exp. Mostly aviation models, this will be my first attempt at building a ship model. I have already put about 650 hrs into the the major construction,ie. the hull, superstructure, I wood planked the entire deck, made my own railings and stanchons with brass, painted all the upper decks, and the wheelhouse, complete with helm,chart-table and a bed. walls finished in basswood I use mostly Model Master paints and I`m having a difficult time matching those two shades of pale green and a blueish green. Do you have any ideas what FS colours would work? Also, Should you clear coat all the painted surfaces before applying any washes for weathering effects and then seal it all with a dullcoat? I am building this ship for my Father-in-law, he works as a Naval Consultant for the DND in Hull Quebec. The ship will be in a drydock diarama under glass, in his office. Due to surgery on my neck which has left me unable to work, I have alot of time on my hands. To do an exellent job on this ship, and get some help to do an even better job. I started this ship in September 2000, and have been keeping a photo journal of the progess if you are interested I can send you a few pictures and you could maybe pass along any other tips that might help me out. I can say one thing, this will NOT be the last ship that I ever build. Are there any plans avaiilable for a 1/72 scale Canadian Frigate Class Destroyer, HMCS CALGARY -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: CapnAgee@aol.com Subject: Re: French Carrier Put Al Gore down for Public Affairs Officer (he can come up with many excuses, etc.) and Jesse Jackson as Human Relations Officer. Ray Agee aka CapnAgee@aol.com Confederate Territory of Arizona -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "Paul Jacobs" Subject: Re: Help ID this painting This is clearly not the Grand Fleet, but rather the German High Seas Fleet. Presumably this depicts one of the annual fleet reviews just prior to WW I, as the Kaiser's yacht HOHENZOLLERN, can be discerned, (as asmall white blob) towards the rear of the main column of ships. Paul Jacobs -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: JRuotsala@aol.com Subject: Karlsruhe Is there anyone out there that can give me a bit on the cruise history of the Karlsruhe..lf so please contact me at my e-mail address: jruotsala@aol.com. Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all. Thanks Jim -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: Ned Barnett Subject: Floating Drydock Plans >> Ned writes: >> Last night, I was writing a review of some new Floating Drydock plans for my new IPMS/USA ship column... - these plans are beyond superb! << Sounds interesting, but on what basis did you evaluate these plans? Floating Drydock usually does produce first-rate work but did you check their accuracy against specifications and photos? << Ned Replies Good Question. I made some comparisons of USS Atlanta with photos and other resources in Friedman's cruiser book and in the S/S Light Cruiser photo-book. I'm currently researching Guadalcanal for a novel, and I've been immersed in about 37 (and counting) resources for that book - while I didn't check all of them, I could find no errors in the Floating Drydock plans. Remember, these are eyeball comparisons; I don't have the tools or tech-skills (or BU plans) to make more metric comparisons. I followed a similar procedure with the sub; also, I make it a habit of visiting every museum sub I can find, and I was able to compare these plans to my notes and photos of subs tied up in San Francisco, Baltimore and Philadelphia. Again, based on my Mk 1 Mod. 1 eyeball scan, these looked very good. I don't have a clue on the minesweeper - I'm going on reputation and on the look/feel of the plans (which include a couple of photos for comparison purposes, as well as on my comparisons with the other two plan-sets. BTW - I think I wrote these were 1/92 - obviously, these plans are 1/96 - and I stand by my guns; these are great, first-rate plans and wonderful (if a bit large) reference sources for modelers who build these subjects. As always, my hat is off to Tom and Floating Drydock. Ned -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "NICK & JOY ROGERS" Subject: BISMARCK & TIRPITZ SAILING TOGETHER + MARMITE DIORAMAS Xmas Greetings from New Zealand, The Land of the Long Black Marmite Diorama, Something new from this fine website,called "The History of Bismarck and Tirpitz". http://home1.inet.tele.dk/asmussen/ An image I have never seen before. The caption = 18 May 1941. As the sun goes down in the west on the eve of her final sortie, Bismarck (foreground) and Tirpitz made exercise together. It was the only time she and her sister had been out for common trials in the Baltic Sea. They were never going to meet again... On the above website menu find the General Information button and explore the Latest Site Updates. MARMITE DIORAMAS. Marmite and Vegemite are nationally favourite tasty spreads for bread and toast in N.Z..They are smooth, easily applied but their colour is akin to the inside of a coal mine with the lights turned off. This brings me easily to the conclusion that a Marmite seascape for waterline models would only be suitable for a wreck scene of a ruptured supertanker,surrounded by oil slicks. Meanwhile back to the Bismarck/Tirpitz image.What a fine diorama that would make,though perhaps not in marmite. Cheers, Nick Rogers -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: SteveWiper@aol.com Subject: Open lettert to Jacques Druel Jacques, I hope that you have not taken these off the cuff jokes about the Charles de Gaulle as offensive. I would have made the same jokes about any nations ship, including my own, after hearing the line about the washing machines making the ship vibrate, its just too funny. I think we all know that there is no way that could be reality. Speaking of vibrating, or excessively vibrating ships, we built a few very large ones with that problem. Both the North Carolina's and all the South Dakota's had very serious vibration problems, which were very well explained in the book by Musicant, "Battleship at War". If I remember correctly, the chief engineer aboard the Washington explained the situation best. All of the above ships had a severe vibration as they approached top speed. The USN tried swapping out different propellors, even cutting down some of them to alleviate the problem. This never really worked. The above mentioned person stated that the internal bracing on the propulsion machinery was too light weight, and would have to be strengthened, at great cost. The USN chose not to, and recommended that the ships only steam at high speed when absolutely necessary. All of those ships were put into reserve very soon after the wars end. I hope that I have gotten the above close to being correct, but it only goes to show that we all have Navies that are not perfect. I think the common denominator in the case of the Charles de Gaulle and the above are the politicians. What should we do about THAT? Steve Wiper -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: peter samolinski Subject: Revell Snowberry Merry Christmas to all - I truly hope you all have a wonderful holiday all throughout the world! Now a question: I thought I had a line on the Revell-Germany 1:72 Snowberry for a friend for Christmas, but alas it fell through. Anyone know where I can procur one? Or, does anyone have one in their collection of unbuilts that they'd part with until the next batch hits these shores? Hi Peter, Try White Ensign or Pacific Front - they should be able to help you out. Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "sell4853" Subject: Painting Identification David Sorry but so far I am unable to find details of the painting is I suggest you contact either the Maritime Museum at Greenwich, The Imperial War Museum at Lambeth or perhaps the Royal Navy Museum at Portsmouth However if you have a look at the following site some of those items may be of interest not only to naval enthusiasts but also anyone keen on the American Civil War http://www.military-art.com/_vti_bin/shtml.exe/search1.htm Best Wishes for the Season and New Year Norman SELLS from Tenterden in cold damp and foggy Kent UK -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: FrederKappes@netscape.net Subject: Merry Christmas and a happy new year!! Hi groupies! Thank you for your cooperation concerning my enquieries. Hopefully you have as much info for me in 2001 as this year. Please feel free to advertise my homepage wherever you want! My homepage is always up to date, there are no questions that are already answered! Let me wish you a MERRY CHRISTMAS and a HAPPY NEW YEAR !! Friedrich The FriedrichFiles http://sites.netscape.net/friedkappes -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: "Norman C. Samish" Subject: Help identify this painting >> I've had this jpg on my computer forever and have had no luck identifying the painter or where it is displayed. It is ostensibly the Grand Fleet steaming toward action at Jutland. http://www.med.unc.edu/wrkunits/2depts/pharm/jutland.jpg I really like the painting and would love to find a repro. Anybody recognize it? << According to http://www.worldwar1.com/arm004.htm, this painting is "The Austro-Hungarian Fleet, K.u.K. Squadron in the Adriatic, by August von Ramberg". This WW1 site has a lot of interesting pictures and information. Norm Samish -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: "wblad" Subject: Help identify this painting This painting by August Ramberg shows VIRIBUS UNITUS at the head of the Austrian Fleet in 1912. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: Minadmiral@aol.com Subject: Re: Chuck Duggie's toys "john" wrote: >> I think its about time Chuck Duggie sells off his Russo/Japanese fleets to someone more deserving----ME << When ya pry em from my cold dead hands, bubba!!! I have Houston 1:1000 RJW destroyers and torpedo boats to use with the RJW ships. Cast white metal, sorta rough, but usable. Then it's time to work on the WWI stuff. You can help. Wanna help me scratch build 1:1200 German WWI CL's to finish up the North Sea?? I shudder to contemplate scratch building all those DD's once the cruisers are finished! Houston ain't got those and the 1:1250 stuff from Europe is pricey!! Maybe we build 1 of each class and try drop molding in RTV. Chuck Duggie WoodenWalls Listmeister Naval wargamer, amateur naval historian, and ship modeler -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://www.smml.org.uk Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://www.tac.com.au/~sljenkins/apma.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume