Subject: SMML VOL 1105 Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 00:40:01 +1100 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: Tosa/Amagi Colors 2: Queen Mary in War Paint 3: Re: Bismarck Site 4: Re: Juneau, Alaska in 1932 5: Re: A model ship christmas story 6: Re: Grey Ghost - Queen Mary in Warpaint (help) 7: Queen Mary 8: Thank you Alberto 9: Re: Chuck D's 1/1200 Christmas list 10: Re: John Sheridan Xmas Story 11: Re: Jerry Philips to Derek 12: Re: Acrylics versus enamels 13: Re: wartime Queen Mary 14: Re: Derek W. ...................No. Cal forget it!!! 15: Re: Bismarck Site (the best one is...) 16: help!! 17: Re: French Carrier 18: Ship's Awards & Campaign Ribbons -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "J. London" Subject: Re: Tosa/Amagi Colors In general Japanese warships were dark grey with a reddish-brown waterline. Snyder & Short color chips note that the exact shade of grey depended on the shipyard where they were built and give examples. Personally I find them all so similar it would take a very trained eye to tell them apart especially on a 1:1200 model. A good approximation would be HUMBROL #27 Matt Sea Grey for the hull. For the waterline the old HUMBROL HN5 was close but is no longer made. Try #113 Matt Rust with a touch of red added. Best wishes on a snowy Christmas morning, Michael London -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: maeisen@erols.com Subject: Queen Mary in War Paint Dear Ned: I've done some research on this topic, as I am building the GHQ 1:2400 scale Queen Mary in her wartime fit and appearance, and I will share with you and the rest of the list members my tentative conclusions. AA fit: as the war progressed, the AA fit carried by Queen Mary was gradually augmented, as time in port permitted. Wartime exigencies initially prevented significant AA upgrades. As far as I can tell from photos, during her initial wartime sortie out of Manhattan harbor in March 1940 in grey paint, she carried no fixed AA. (See photo in William H. Miller and David F. Hutchings, "Transatlantic Liners at War: the Story of the Queens.") A photo of Queen Mary in dry dock in Singapore in August 1940 shows her with her fantail mounted 6" gun. No other guns are in evidence at this time, but it is seems plausible that at least light AA (.50 cal) would be carried, even if they have not been fitted in permanent mounts. I have no evidence, however, that this was the case. (See photo of QM in dry dock in Singapore with her 6" gun, and troops manning pintle mounted .50 cal AA gun from May 1942 in Steve Harding, "Gray Ghost: The RMS Queen Mary at War.") By February 1942, Queen Mary had a substantial AA fit, consisting of her aforementioned fantail mounted 6" gun, maybe 8 tub-mounted twin water-cooled Browing .50 cals, associated observer tubs, but still no degaussing coil. This is based on my interpretation of photo 80G 187648 dated February 1942 from the US National Archives, and a photo on p. 25 of Harding's "Gray Ghost," among other sources. By mid-late 1942 (by the time of her collision with HMS Curacoa) she had her full-up wartime fit, including degaussing coil, .50 cal oerlikons, twin 40s, 3" and 6" guns, and UP projectors. For a beautiful detailed line drawing of Queen Mary in this fit, see Ross Watton, "Anatomy of the Ship: The Cunard Liner Queen Mary," (Annapolis: Naval Institute Press). It has all the info you will need to model Queen Mary in her full-up fit. As for colors, she wore a very matt grey throughout the war. I have no idea what kind of gray was used, but to my eyes, Floquil Gray Primer provides a very nice, very, very matt finish that looks "just right." It seems that the decks were kept their natural wood color (though in the photo in the aforementioned Miller and Hutchings book, her decks look like they might have originally been painted gray as well, though the photo is hard to interpret). In some photos, it also appears that the uppermost deck level was a darker color than the rest of the ship or the other decks. Lacking any definitive info, I would assume a dark gray. See photos of QM in Robert Maguglin, "The Queen Mary: The Official Pictorial History" (Long Beach, CA: Wrather Port Properties, Ltd., 1985), and in William J. Duncan, "RMS Queen Mary: Queen of the Queens" (Droke House Publishers, 1969). I'm sorry that some of the citations are incomplete, but I lack page numbers for some of the photos from the aforementioned books that are in my files. Poor notetaking on my part. Shame on me! As you see, you have lots of choices as to how to model your QM. If you were to buy one or two books to help you with this project, I would unreservedly recommend the Harding book and the Watton AOS. Hope this helps, and happy modeling! Yours truly, Michael Eisenstadt -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: URUDOFSKY@aol.com Subject: Re: Bismarck Site To update the availability of information on the Bismarck take a look at: http://idd007xs.eresmas.net/bismarck.html Under the Update you will find a translation of a section of the reconstructed war diary by the German Navy (July 1941) covering 14 May 1941, 1836 hours to 24 May 1941, 1200 hours, and other material pertaining to this ship. Ulrich H. Rudofsky -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: JRuotsala@aol.com Subject: Re: Juneau, Alaska in 1932 Steve, The one I am interested in was in Juneau, Alaska in 1932. Also need to know if it was in Alaskan water at any other time in the 1930's. Some believe it was in Sitka, Alaska as late as 1938 and that is what I need to know for a story I am doing. Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to you and yours. Thanks Jim Ruotsala -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Doug Wilde" Subject: Re: A model ship christmas story John, perhaps you should modify your .sig file: The only human to defeat a US airline at Christmas is behind me, you are in front of me. If you value your lives, be somewhere else. : Delenn Doug Wilde -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: Duane Fowler Subject: Re: Grey Ghost - Queen Mary in Warpaint (help) Try to get your hands on a copy of the "Anatomy of the Ship: The Queen Mary" if you can. There is an drawing of the ship showing the placement of wartime weapons. As for the weapons, try White Ensign Models. They have a large assortment of 1/600 parts. Regards, Duane Fowler -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "John Rule" Subject: Queen Mary For info on wartime fit check out Anatomy of the Ship book on Queen Mary. John -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "Ned Barnett" Subject: Thank you Alberto My thanks to Alberto Montes - the resource you gave me on the Queen Mary wartime plans (on a neat website for merchant ship modelers - the debris field) was very helpful. I tried to thank you directly, but the e-mail bounced. All the best, Alberto ... Ned -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: JohnVCP@aol.com Subject: Re: Chuck D's 1/1200 Christmas list As a collector of 1:1200 & 1:1250 ship models (collection equals 1650 plus models) I would be interested in purchasing 1:1200 scale ship models - when will examples be available? John Heasel -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: isublett@home.com Subject: Re: John Sheridan Xmas Story The only possible comment is: "Yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus". Well, one other point, I have been well advised to noever ship anything by American Airlines. Pirie Sublett -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: isublett@home.com Subject: Re: Jerry Philips to Derek I guess I'll jump in anyway. Derek, the rents are cheaper in London, consuderably, than in the Bay Area. Move to Albuquque and order from Pacific Front, something I'm certainly considering. As for San Diego, as I look out the window this lovely white Christmas, the bay is filled with ice, and the sea lions are screaming as the polar bears attack! For the humor impaired, the last sentence is probably false. Pirie Sublett -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "Kelvin Mok" Subject: Re: Acrylics versus enamels My original response to Mike via SMML seems to have disappeared into thin air. >> Great post about acrylic retarder! I will try it out myself as a result of your posting. Just a few quick questions: Which brand of paints do you use with the retarder? Polly Scale? Tamiya? Others? << I use Tamiya (and Gunze Sangyo because I was able to get a large selection cheap from a shop that went belly up.) Better still I also use artists' tube acrylics for Black, White, primary colours Red Green and Blue, and all the earth tones for weathering - Burnt Sienna, Yellow Ochre, Umber, take your pick. A 60ml tube (2 fluid ounce) of artists' acrylics costs around $7 and it lasts for ever. Tube acrylics' covering power and finish is superior to hobby acylics. Their paste-like thickness is also very suitable for dry brushing. Then there are those acyrlic paints (Anita's, Folk Art) from the craft shops that go for $1 per 60 ml bottle. Their selection of colours somehow seem to miss all the military colours we need but these cheapies (every dollar counts) are great for painting diaromas. The acrylic retarder mixes with all the acrylic type paints mentioned above and probably any brand of water based acrylics you have. And to clean your brushes just swirl them in the dish soap - vinegar mix mentioned earlier and rinse. The tint differences in military colours such as deep Yellow for German Armour and Desert Yellow for 8th Army are too subtle to try mixing your own so I air brush the original colour for the base coat to the appropriate tank. Then I weather the model using artists' acrylics, especially drybrushed white, then go over that with retarder thinned (base) colour as described in my first post. Go ahead and experiment with whatever comes to your mind. The retarder is a very forgiving medium. I had painting mistakes covered over by as much as seven coats and it came off looking just right for a scruffy battle worn tank, chipped markings from broken decals and all. One more tip. Apply your decals over a wet coat of retarder (thin it with a little bit of water to lengthen the working time) and follow that with a coat of retarder over the decal. The decal will look as if it is painted on with none of those sharp edges or white areas under the decal's clear carrier film. >> In what proportion do you mix retarder, paint, and thinner? Does the use of retarder necessitate additional thinner, since the retardent is a gel? What kind of thinner do you use? << This refers to brush painting. The retarder is a very forgiving medium and you can brush it on neat or together with as much paint as you want. The retarder is the only thing I use. No thinner, not even water. I leave a glob of retarder on the palette, pick up paint from the bottle with a brush, dip that into the retarder then apply to the model. No waste. And there is no contamination when dipping the paint brush back into the bottle to pick up more paint. A 265 ml (a mug-full) bottle of retarder costs me only $5.65 and again it seems to last for ever. >> And if the retarder slows the drying process, how can you handle the painted surface in 5 minutes? (I'm not playing skeptic here, just curious). << Probably a surface effect. As a glob the surface area is much smaller and therefore dries slower than a thin coat. After a few painting sessions you learn to put as much retarder you immediately need on the palette and the problem of the retarder drying up on you just doesn't happen anymore. >> Why don't you respond to SMML so everyone can benefit from your experience. Thanks so much again for sharing your experiences with us. Happy holidays. Mike Eisenstadt << You're welcome. Kelvin Mok -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: SantMin@aol.com Subject: Re: wartime Queen Mary >> First, I'd like to find a general arrangement drawing of the Queen in warpaint, one that shows the positioning of the various weapons (mostly AA). From the photo, I can see the de-gaussing cables, but except for a few mounts over the foc'sl, I can't see what's there. I have a book on her wartime service, but while there are photos, there are no plans << The ANATOMY of the SHIP book QUEEN MARY has all the info you need in it. Merry Christmas, Bob Santos -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: NAVYDAZE@aol.com Subject: Re: Derek W. ...................No. Cal forget it!!! Jerry, We always think about you guys down south and the water situation - we are more than happy to send it - Flush, Flush! However, I would say, think twice about moving to California in general - to many people aready!! Mike NAVYDAZE -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: Frank Allen Subject: Re: Bismarck Site (the best one is...) My input for best Bismarck site is "Battleship Bismarck" at: http://idd007xs.eresmas.net/bismarck.html Though it may not currently have the same flashy photos as the site previously mentioned, it is nonetheless better overall. This is because of the data and sources used. It is also more comprehensive/well rounded overall. The "Battleship Bismarck" site also possesses a Bismarck and Tirpitz archive...this archive when it is fully up and running will be unlike anything any other website currently possesses. A great deal of official documentation and first hand materials (first hand crew photos, letters, etc) will be available there. The latest acquisition is the first war diary of Bismarck (17-24 May 1941). Interesting reading. Drop by and check it out. Frank HMS Hood Association (http://hmshood.com) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "tomoyuki chuah" Subject: help!! hi guys, i need some help from those expert scratchbuilders out there!! does anyone know,how to scratchbuilt blast bags oon ww2 ijn battleships? yeah, i know..i know,that's stupid but hey, i'm still new in this scratchbuilding business!!!;{ and is there any p.e set for ijn triple 25mm MGs or anything close to it out there? need them a.s.a.p!! oh yeah,if there's anybody out there who has extra brass tube(3/32" or smaller) for sale, please tell me.i only need about 20". well,i think that's all for now. till then again, merry x'mas and a happy new year to all fellow modellers out there!!! ctw -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: "hugh1lottie2" Subject: Re: French Carrier Ray. You forgot the MWR Officer......Forrest W. Bush, no one can throw a party like the new Prez. Hugh -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: Schiefet@cs.com Subject: Ship's Awards & Campaign Ribbons >> Is there anyway to find out which campaign awards and decorations were received by particular ships? I'm building the USS Pringle, DD-477 and would like to display these ribbons, but where do I find them? << Hi Dave, You may have already tried these, but: - Destroyers on-line (http://www.plateau.net/usndd) - Go to the bottom of the first page and Search on Pringle. There are several Pringle crew members listed with phone numbers and e-mail addresses. - See if the Pringle has a web site or a ship's association. - Check the Dictionary of Naval Ships (http://www.hazegray.org/) - Tin Can Sailors (http://www.destroyers.org/) There is also a number in DC to call for this information. I called it about 7 years ago to get my ribbons up to date for retirement. If I can find the number I will send it to SMML. Good Luck, Steve Singlar Pelham, NH Where temps won't break above 10F today -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://www.smml.org.uk Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://www.tac.com.au/~sljenkins/apma.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume