Subject: SMML VOL 1107 Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 07:29:22 +1100 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: Moskva photo etch 2: Re: Pacific Front 3: Trumpeter ships 4: Deck camber In 1/192 Scale 5: Only remotely on topic 6: Floating Drydock Plans 7: Large Bismarck Kit 8: Re: Pacific Front 9: Morskaya Kollektsiya 10: USS Brooklyn 11: Aircraft Carriers 12: Wanted: Warspite in 1915/1916 13: FD & Wiswesser plans 14: Help ------------------------- Calypso 15: Bogue Class Escort Carriers 16: Letters of Marque 17: Re: Pacific Front -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: trade -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Pieter Cornelissen Subject: Re: Moskva photo etch >> As a photo etch designer and manufacturer, I recommend this set highly. Well done! << As a Russian/Soviet navy fan who usually builds in 1/700 I sincerely hope that Peter Hall and WEM would think of us poor 1/700 builders. After all, there are a number of kits available on which these sets can be used. First there is the Aoshima Kiev and the (ex) Skywave Sovremenny and Udaloy, second -in resin- HP's Kirov, Waveline's Grozny (Kynda) and the new Kombrig kits (one of which is Moskva). While there is a good GMM set available it is one of the older sets. It has rather thick railings and no Voschod (Head Lights) radar. I had to stop a project 1154 (Kresta 2) conversion of Skywave's Sovremenny as I lack the skill to scratchbuild 4 parabolic antana's (yes I have tried to do so) I think there is a -small- market for a new 1/700 photo-set for soviet vessels. And as I also have this old Airfix kit somewhere I just might dig it out and order a WEM set. Pity they lost count of the number of Side Globe jammers though... Pieter Cornelissen Delft The Netherlands Where we finally had a White Christmas again.. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: SteveWiper@aol.com Subject: Re: Pacific Front I feel the post made by Lee Shackelford needs the following response. It is quite obvious that this person cant see the "Big Picture"! There may be a few items for sale at Pacific Front Hobbies that are more expensive than they may be at other dealers, but Pacific Front also has some items less expensive than found at others. It all comes out in the wash. The "Big Picture" is, Pacific Front Hobbies has damn near everything in one place, and has been doing this longer and better than anyone else in the USA. If everyone were to stop buying from him because of what "Lee" stated, we would lose the ability to find quite a few items he carries. That is because no one else brings them into this country. It takes a lot of time to hunt down all the esoteric items carried at Pacific Front, let alone bring them into the country, deal with customs, shipping fee's, etc. That would be a great loss! Sometimes we have to pay just a little more to have the convenience that Pacific Front Hobbies offers. I personally believe that Pacific Front Hobbies has been a driving force that has been a major contributor to the growth of the ship modeling hobby as a whole. If that bothers you, fine, do what you think you need to do to be satisfied, but dont "Bad Mouth" a valuable institution who has provided a great service for many years now. Lee, it just makes you look bad and narrow minded when you make a statement like you did, especially when it is done in a public forum, like the SMML. I dont ever want to try to belittle any person, and I am not trying to here, but when I see such a statement as Lee has made, I feel that I have to let others know the "Big Picture". There are always two sides to every story. Steve Wiper -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: James Corley Subject: Trumpeter ships I'm thinking about building the Chin'en, an early IJN battleship. She was a captured Chinese battleship Chen Yuen ... Isn't this done by Trumpter? I also have a copy of the old Lindberg Olympia which I have considered building as the IJN Training hulk Fuji, the hull looks close enough for my satisfaction. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Victor M. Baca" Subject: Deck camber In 1/192 Scale Dave Lueck asked if deck camber is necessary on a 1/192 scale destroyer model. I would definitely want to camber the decks in this scale. It's easy enough to do, depending on your model's type of construction (hollow hull or solid). Building deck camber into a model adds a subtle finishing touch that brings realism for the viewer and is a very important part of the ship's design. The most noticeable parts of the cambered deck on a Fletcher DD are the extreme stern where camber shows in the athwartships sheer of the transom and at the foc'sle deck where the slight curve is evident. So I'd say--go ahead and camber those decks, Dave--good luck on your project. Victor Baca -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Tom Kremer" Subject: Only remotely on topic Ned writes: >> Also, without notable skills, you'll be competing with the huge crop of immigrants who flock to SF - people for whom minimum wage is wealth beyond imagining - and with the recent rash of dot.com crashes, there are lots of little high-skilled dot.commies looking for work (any work).> I don't want to paint a grim picture.... << Whoo, that sounds rough! After reading that I was ready to move away myself until I looked out my window (corner office on the Embarcadero, floor-to-ceiling glass walls, 2 blocks south of the Ferry Terminal)and saw that the US Navy was again providing the scenery, USS Yukon headed to sea... and I thought "aw, heck... maybe it's not all bad here". Tom K. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Victor M. Baca" Subject: Floating Drydock Plans I have checked out Tom Walkowiak's new plans offered through his Floating Drydock company and they are about as accurate as current resaerch will allow. I also applaud Tom for taking a chance and spending the effort to do a minesweeper drawing (I believe a similar ship is a preserved museum vessel in the Midwest). These ships are often forgotten and overshadowed by their larger bretheren. It should be noted that Tom provides a huge annually updated catalog of plans that helped shape the types of military ship models built in the United States. These are his general arrangement and hull line copies which are official plans and usually there is no question as to accuracy. I've been a Floating Drydock customer for about two decades and am amazed at the depth of his offerings. Without this source of plans, many of us would not have been exposed to this material and we'd still be searching museums and private collections at great cost in time and effort. Keep 'em coming, Tom! Victor Baca -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: URUDOFSKY@aol.com Subject: Large Bismarck Kit Although I am heavily into 1:1250/1200 ship model collecting, I have lately felt the urge to get passed these little 1:1250/1200 or 1:700 toys. Does anyone have a suggestion about a big kit model of the BISMARCK that actually swims under power and is at least about 1 meter long? What about the Areo-Naut model? Ulrich H. Rudofsky -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: melee Subject: Re: Pacific Front (Re: Steve Wiper's post above: Shane) Hello, I have told noone not to buy from Pacific Front. I have just stated that for 160 DM, about 80 USD, I bought the Akagi, whereas, Pacific Front has the same ship at 100USD. I am only comparing Neptun ships,--all but one Neptun listed by Pacific Front is more expensive than the same ship from a German supplier (including sea shipping costs) or East Coast. I have been putting together a document, comparing the prices from a number of distributors. I am sure that they must do something well, but I have not seen it. I asked to buy a number of ships, and for him to quote the shipping cost. He sent me a list with a couple of ships missing and the shipping cost. I figured that a couple had been sold. The next update came and I saw a couple more ships I wanted. I asked what the extra shipping costs would be with the new ships added. He told me. I told him that I was going to the bank for a bank draft. I went to the bank for a bank draft and sent it. He then complained that I should have waited, for the shipping costs were actually higher. I asked for the shipping costs, he told me, then he says I should have waited--bloody joke. All he had to do was weigh the package and call the post office for the shipping cost. In the current update(that time) and the next one, ships which I had wanted, but he said were unavailable, were listed. I sent a letter asking why ships I originally wanted were not included in my package, but were still listed in the new update and the next. No reply to that question. This happened a while ago. I defend my position with high prices and poor service. I have nothing to hide. Send a letter to him, ask him about this case. Ask him the time it took place and ask him to send you the updates for that time period. I was buying Superior ships, for my students to play with before class and after class, while waiting for their parents. My serious question is why the name calling and such by you, directed at me? What is your connection to Pacific Front? I make a perfect point on extremely high prices and you come down on ME like a ton of bricks, instead of saying, "Yeah, the prices, when compared to other companies are high.", why don't they lower the prices a little. You cannot tell me that he spent 20USD getting that one ship into the US, so why such a huge difference in price? Have a good day. Lee Errin Shackelford I was a bit hurried earlier. Here is the document, nowhere near complete, but it gives you the idea. You figure the German retailer's price is cost from Neptun, plus their own markup---so the Akagi is 160 DM (80USD). You figure Bill Gruner's price is cost from Neptun, plus his own markup--and his Akagi is 105USD. Look at the price from East Coast, another company in the US, after markup. Why the big difference between the 2 US companies, then ask yourself why get angry with me? I also forgot to mention, one of the ships described as "damaged masts", was actually missing a funnel. Be Happy Lee Hi, Please email Lee for his excel file, since I don't use that spreadsheet program (ms excel) I can't open it. As for Pacific Front (seeing as I was one who recoomended them in the past few days) - while I have never dealt with them (the Aussie peso gets in the way :-( ), I would not hesitate to do so in the future. This is based on experiences from people I know & trust who have used Pacific Front & highly recommend them. You can take that for what's it worth. Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "Mike Leonard" Subject: Morskaya Kollektsiya Pacific Front Hobbies has a limited supply of a Russian periodical called "Morskaya Kollektsiya" (Naval Collection). These are 32 pages each and are loaded with information of interest to ship modelers. One title (#3/1996) is on the German fleet of WW1 and features line drawings (most profile but some overhead) of every class of ship from dreadnoughts to torpedo boats. Color art on the front and back cover includes pre-war and wartime paint schemes. Another title in the series (#2/1999) is on WW2 German Schellbootes. The S-boat magazine is packed with photos, line drawings, schematics, and six color profiles. Both of these are 99% written in Russian, but are worthwhile for the illustrations alone. MWL -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "Mike Leonard" Subject: USS Brooklyn I recently obtained a new 1/700 ship model by a Polish company called Martola. It's the 1893 armored cruiser USS Brooklyn. Very reminiscent of the Modlekrak kits. Molded in a dark yellowish resin, it contains about 60 parts (some extra boats and gun barrels were thrown in) and fine wire for making masts and spars. On initial inspection, the seven-inch long, one-piece hull looked very good -- no pitting or bubbles or other flaws -- but a closer look (using the much-reviled Wiswesser plans and a comparison to a picture of the yet-to-be-released USS Brooklyn kit by Iron Shipwright) showed that there seems to be a very serious discrepancy in this model. Both the Wiswesser plans and ISW kit both show a hollowed-out area around the stacks, surrounded by bulkheads. The Martola kit shows this all as a solid piece; no bulkhead. This is the same sort of problem that occurred with the old Glencoe USS Oregon model. Not exactly an easy task to correct -- several hours of cutting and careful reconstructing, at a minimum, plus lengthening the stack height. Anybody interested in this subject may just want to wait until the ISW kit comes out, hopefully early in the new year. The kit does come with an English-language instruction sheet with technical data on the ship and some photos of the assembled kit (gun barrels on the turrets are way too long in the photos). A web site is advertised -- http://www.martola.polbox.com -- but I don't know of anybody who's been able to get to it yet. Mike Alexandria, VA USA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: Eddie A Subject: Aircraft Carriers I would like information on building a model of the aircraft carrier, USS Dwight D. Eisenhower (CVN69). Please forward to SNCadams@relex.com Thank you, Eddie Adams -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: SolidStump@aol.com Subject: Wanted: Warspite in 1915/1916 I know that Waveline did a resin 1/700 but it is out of production and I have not been able to locate a supplier. White Ensign lists one but I do not know if it was ever produced. Ms. Carter only stated the 1938 fit would be available when I inquired. Anyone have one they would sell? Anyone know where I can get one. Also wish someone would do a Jutland Warspite in 1/350 to sit with my ICM battleships (when I build them) Thanks, Simon Scheuer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "Mike C" Subject: FD & Wiswesser plans Hi group, I've traded mail with Tom Walkowiak at Floating Drydock and I can attest that he does, in fact, trace them from the official Navy or Bureau of Ships plan sets (I've compared some of them). There is one caveat, however. He only traces the external features of the ship that a modeler would normally need and deletes all the interior compartments. A number of the plan sets that he currently sells were redrawn from sets that he had previously copied directly from the surviving plan sets. Anyone who has collected those can tell you that quality of the blue prints varies greatly; they are often illegible since the originals were often drawn in pencil and many have faded over time. Tom's redrawn copies not only preserve the original plan sets from undue handling, but put them in a form that anyone can use. In addition, Tom often adds scrap drawings of weapons, boats, and fittings not found on the original plans. Unless you are looking for the interior guts of a particular ship, I would recommend Floating Drydock sets without reservation. The Wiswesser plans, on the other hand, are as Steve and Rusty have said...generally useless as the basis for accurate ship models. Their (his?) plans are for people who want a general idea of what a particular ship looked like and prefer to keep their plan sets in the same small, simplified, inexpensive size. I consider them to be the equivalent of a coffee table illustration book...quantity, not quality. If you take that into consideration, they're a great, inexpensive way to satisfy a child's curiosity as a starting point for more in-depth study. They can work up to the $30 plan sets later. That's by two bits. Have fun. Mike Czibovic -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "Shaya Novak" Subject: Help ------------------------- Calypso The Calypso ---- Jaques Costeau was this ship originally an American Minesweeper if so which ship and class? Shaya Novak Naval Base Hobbies The Store for The Model Ship Builder www.modelshipbuilding.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "phil long" Subject: Bogue Class Escort Carriers Hello everyone On a previous list someone discussed the topic of card models and directed us to a website with a fine article on modelling the CVE11 USS Card (Great work and well written who ever it was my memory is not that good and I can't remember who did it) so inspired i decided to give it a go on the same model only making the hull from MDF sheathed in thin plastic sheet and the deck from thicker plastic.I am now at the stage where the basic shape is builtand have to decide which ship to build and was wondering if all ships in the class were vaguely similar in layout including the ones used by the Royal Navy (I heard that the RN rebuilt theirs before use). Can anyone point to good references to these vessels with thanks and a Happy New Year to you all Phil -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: Fkbrown90@aol.com Subject: Letters of Marque This information is not, strictly speaking, about ship models per se, but may be of interest to some SMML people. I have found a website which contains interesting information about those infamous licenses to steal known as "Letters of Marque". It contains a definition, some history, some examples, and much more. If you are interested, then 1) Go to www.geocities.com/tokyo/garden/5213/marque.htm 2) Click on "Letters of Marque". 3) After reading the text, click on "Examples". 4) Click on any of 28 examples of Letters of Marque, from an English Letter of 1205 to an American Letter of 1814, including those of some eight different maritime authorities of the times. 5) Enjoy. You can print out any examples you care to. I would like to make a print out, but using antique style font to emulate an original document, and leaving blank spaces of specific names to be filled in by hand with names such as your own as captain, and with others meaningful to yourself in the blanks for ships, ship's owners, etc. But being new to cyberspace, I sadly lack the ability to so do. If someone figures out how to make such a non-specific print-out, I beseech thee to let me know, off-list if you prefer, how it is done. My server is AOL, which may limit the font styles available. I did not see any copyright notices, although that doesn't mean there aren't any, only that I didn't see any. Franklyn -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: Ives100@aol.com Subject: Re: Pacific Front >> Why would anyone order from Pacific Front, their prices are the highest. << Uhhh, great service, fabulous inventory of ship models, one of the BEST sources for ship models? Tom Dougherty "There are those who know the cost of everything and the value of nothing" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: dm Subject: trade Hi all, I have a 1/800 Nimitz full hull (ARII) kit #A124-1800 that was given to me but I do not build that scale or full hull ships. I was wondering if anyone wanted to trade anything 1/700 for it? ALL pieces are still in wrap and there are 60+ aircraft in the kit along with some awesome decals for both aircraft and ship. I will also include GMM photo etch designed for either 1/720 Revel Enterprise or Testors/Italeria Nimitz. As I have lost my entire 1/700 collection of over 100+ ships, any in that scale would be great, especially BB or CV. Email me off list please. Thanks Douglas -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://www.smml.org.uk Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://www.tac.com.au/~sljenkins/apma.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume