Subject: SMML VOL 1108 Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 03:09:08 +1100 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: Pacific Front and Current New Ship Model rumors 2: Arktika kit 3: insignia 4: Chen Yuen 5: Calypso and USS Constitution 6: Pacific Front Hobbies 7: USS Enterprise 8: Ribbons and awards 9: Pacific Front 10: More on PacFront 11: Re: Calypso 12: Re: Calypso questions 13: Re: Pacific Front Hobbies 14: Comparison Shopping is Good :-) 15: Pacific Front 16: Don't throw away that old warship! 17: Re: PF 18: Pacific Front 19: Gifts, Pyro Maine, EAGLE & Bachman 20: Combat Fleets 21: Re: Pacific Front 22: Re: Pacific Front Hobbies 23: Re: Steve Wiper/Pacific Front 24: Re: Pacific Front 25: Re: Pacific Front 26: Calypso 27: Pacific Front 28: Calypso 29: Pacific Front Hobbies 30: Dunkerque's Screws 31: Service history of HMS Sirius (F40, Leander Class Frigate) 32: It is not fair to make such statement about Pacific Front 33: USS Pringle Awards 34: Chun San 35: Re: Martola Kits -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: ICM models ships - SMML Special 2: FS: Ships -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Joseph W. Reyna" Subject: Re: Pacific Front and Current New Ship Model rumors >> Uhhh, great service, fabulous inventory of ship models, one of the BEST sources for ship models? << Regarding Tom's response to the post on Pacific Front: Darn straight, Tom! Not to mention the fact that Bill Gruner is a consummate gentleman to deal with who operates quickly and fairly, and, to second your comment, has one of the BEST selections of current and COLLECTIBLE kits in the country! There are so many rip-off dealers who promise the moon and deliver moldy cheese (not even "cheesy poofs"!), that someone of the quality of Bill's Pacific Front Hobbies is rare indeed! On another topic, I have ordered 1/400 scale ARII NEW JERSEY and MISSOURI model kits from an associate in Japan - has anyone taken a look at these kits? I also understand that Dragon/Shanghai models has released a 1/350 ARLEIGH BURKE - any confirmation of this, and if so, any early take on its quality? Best wishes to all SMML-lies for a Happy New Year! Joe Reyna -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Steven Sliwka" Subject: Arktika kit SMMLies I've recently heard of a Russian-cast kit of the nuclear Icebreaker Arktika (c or k, whichever you prefer). Does anyone know about this kit regarding its construction, # of parts, detailing, etc.? I understand it is appox. 40cm/15" long. I've been doing some research on Soviet/Finnish and Canadian Icebreakers and if this kit is worth it, I will buy it. I just want to know some of the specs before I invest in it. Thanks to anyone that can help!! Steve -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Lamar Jones Subject: insignia Puzzled, in fact frustrated, by an inability to find rondels for the Walrus a/c on my WEM 1:350 Sheffield I used a Waldron Punch Set and colored pages from a recent copy of Fine Scale Modeler, which had the correct red and blue I needed. It worked, really worked well. I simply put the punched discs into a bed of Future and then topped that off with more coats of Future. The results are quite decent, and in truth the punch left a bit of white on parts of the blue circle that give it a worn appearance. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Kerry Jang Subject: Chen Yuen Hi James, The "Chin'en" is the "Chen Yuan"/Chen Yuen. Chin'en is the Japanese pronunciation of "Chen Yuan". The kit is by Zhengdefu, and brought out with the Ding Yuan/Ting Yuen and a few other kits to commemorate the 100th anniversery of the Battle of the Yalu River anhd founding he of the "modern" Chinese Navy. The kit was originally issued with an enammelled stick pin celebrating this event. Comparison of the kit to the photos I have of these ships in Chinese service show that a lot of work needs to be done to make them anywhere near scale looking. The Japanese modifications to the Chen Yuen after her capture and introduction into Japanese service as the Chin'en needs even more work! I have been researching these ships for several years and the ship's appearances in Chinese service vary quite dramatically. Her looks at delivery to China, her training and goodwill visits throughout Asia, the Battle of the Yalu periods all look quite different, from paintwork to structural details. Many of the drawings of the ships are quite sketchy, and conflict in details. Hopefully this year we will have finished a set of drawings we ahve been working on over the past few years that show her in these different time periods. They are based on palns of her sister ship, the German Saschen, contemporary drawings and a bunch of new photos we have found. One more set of revisions to go before we quit! Hope this helps, Kerry -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "larsenal" Subject: Calypso and USS Constitution Hello ! The Calypso was a former YMS and was bought by Jacques Cousteau in the immediate post war years when she was used as a ferry in the Mediteranean. I have another question regarding the USS Constitution in Boston. Some 25 years ago when I was a student I had the good chance to visit her in the Boston harbour. Is the ship still in commission with the US Navy as is the Victory in the Royal Navy ? All my best wishes to all for the New Year to come and good sailing to the Charles De Gaulle with a now working propeller !!! Best regards, Jacques Druel L'Arsenal -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Jeff & Laura Herne" Subject: Pacific Front Hobbies I've gotten the Pacific Front flyer in the mail, called Bill Gruner straight away, and found that the item I wanted had already been sold. Such is the nature of the beast. Bill runs a first rate operation, and where else in the world can you find that much ship model inventory at your beckon call? Point is, if you want something, Bill usually has it. If he doesn't, he'll try to find it for you. You're still talking to a single person (remember that, this is a one-man operation), and it's a person who has a genuine interest in our little minority faction of the hobby industry. If service is a bit slow, remember, it's the holidays, and I'm sure he does have a life outside of the shop. That being said, he's human just like the rest of us, so cut him some slack. From my point of view, if I want something bad enough, I'll pay any reasonable price for it. An extra $20 US amounts to 4 pints in a pub. If Bill's price is $20 more than list, and he's got it in stock and ready to ship, I'll buy it from him to save the aggrevation of trying to find it cheaper somewhere else. My time is worth money, too. I have no connection with Pacific Front aside from having ordered from him. Jeff -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: Schiefet@cs.com Subject: USS Enterprise Greetings, This is a link to the Naval Historical Center's web page. They are doing a presentation on Enterprise. Steve Singlar Pelham, NH http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/sh-usn/usnsh-e/cv6.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Schiefet@cs.com Subject: Ribbons and awards For those looking for Ribbons/awards for a ship, squadron or station, see the attached message from Bupers. Steve Singlar Pelham, NH >> From: Cruse, Bob BMCM [mailto:N09BU@BUPERS.Navy.Mil] Subject: RE: Ribbons/awards question Dear Senior Chief, I recommend that you call the SECNAV Awards Board at 202-685-6530/1/2/3/4/5/6. << -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: Ned Barnett Subject: Pacific Front I was frankly appalled by Lee's comments on PacFront hobbies - it was like he was personally insulted that a risk-taking entrepreneur was charging a fair market price for a given product. Lee, if you don't like PacFront, don't buy from them. However, I (for one) do not appreciate your vitriol on this list - and I feel that your slams were unwarranted and based on vastly insufficient information. This is a reputable merchant that I've used and liked - they have a great and extensive line, and provide prompt service. I'm bright enough to shop around, but I'm (I hope) smart enough to support vendors who support my hobby of choice. Ned -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Ned Barnett Subject: More on PacFront NOTE: I write reviews of kits and books; there are times when I speak out against the quality of some kit or book - but in those cases, it is never personal, and my comments (though subject to challenge) are based on the kit or the book in front of me. Lee Shackelford should not claim to be doing any kind of objective "review" - that's not what he's doing. He's getting personal, working out his anger at a vendor in public in a most inappropriate way. I want to draw this distinction (between a review and a vendetta) to make it clear why I might pan Armageddon's LCVP but object to Lee's comments about Pacific Front Hobbies. *** My post (moments ago as I write this) was in response to Lee Shackelford's original post on PacFront. I thought it was mean-spirited and over-the-top - and really the kind of letter one writes to a vendor one no longer plans to use - not a rant for a public forum of PacFront's customers. However, I just now read a further post from Lee. A more mean-spirited, one-sided, vicious attack on someone I have not read on this list. It was outrageous. If I owned PacFront (and if I could afford a lawyer), I think I'd sue Lee for slander (or is it libel?). This unwarranted attack, this detailed, self-serving swipe at a legitimate vendor has no place on this list. Lee, if you don't like their prices, shop elsewhere. It's a free market. If you find a cheaper source, you might even let us know (and you don't have to get nasty to do so). But this kind of cheap shot about a legitimate, supportive and effective vendor of modeling supplies just because you don't like the way he did business on an international shipping issue (for which there are, I am sure, two very different sides to the story) - it just had no place here. If you want to vent your bile, do so elsewhere. However, if you want to start getting ugly on this list, understand that there are those who will not listen to such crap laying down (so to speak). This is a list about modeling, not a place where you (or any one of us) can or should work out his anger at a vendor. There are other forums for that - use them. Really pissed off Ned ... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: Craig R Bennett Subject: Re: Calypso Hi Guys Concerning the Calypso I'm not sure of the hull number but I remember that the Calypso was a minesweeper built in Seattle WA in 1942. As part of series of lend leased minesweepers called BYMS's for the Royal Navy. After WW2 the RN sold the sweeper and it was used as a ferry I believe in Greece. He (Jacque Cousteau) bought it in 1950. Is it still inuse or has it been retired.? A good book about the Bogue Class escort carriers is Squadron's Escort Carriers(#4009) book it does cover the Bogue's and the lend leased versions of this class. Strangely their called BOUGE class in the book. It goes for $10.00. Curiously does any one know what paint scheme the Block Island CVE-21 was wearing at the time of her loss in 1944. I suspect measure 32/4a but i'm not sure. Craig -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: Preston L Hassler Subject: Re: Calypso questions With regard to your questions on Calypso. In the book, "Jacques Cousteau's Calypso", on page 8, in a caption under a picture, the following is stated, "1942-- Minesweeper J-826, built in the US, goes to war in the British navy". The picture is of a minesweeper with two stacks (that should be a helpful identifier). On page 16, it says that the minesweeper was about 140 feet long and 24 feet wide. In Fahey's "Ships and Aircraft of the US Fleet--Victory Edition" copyright 1945, on page 39, there is a picture which looks exactly like the picture in the Calypso book. The Fahey book says the class is USS YMS(1-134) and is 136 feet long and 24 feet wide and was built in 1941. I expect the number, J-826, was the British number and doesn't correspond with the US numbers 1 thru 134. I have no idea how you might get an actual corelation of the US numbered ship which became J-826. Also the Calypso book gives specifications, page 32, on the Calypso with a length of 139 feet. I would guess that's 136 feet plus some for the observation chamber on it's prow. The Calypso book was published by Harry N Abrams, Inc, Publishers, in New York, copyright 1983, and is possibly available from The Cousteau Society, 870 Greenbriar Circle, Suite 402, Chesapeake, VA, USA, 23320. The authors are Jacques Cousteau and Alexis Sivirine. A long answer to your question! Skip Hassler -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: SeaPhoto@aol.com Subject: Re: Pacific Front Hobbies Hello Everyone, Just wanted to throw my 2 cents worth in - I have been ordering from Pacific Front for years, and always enjoyed good service. Bill is a gentleman, and has always come through for me on orders. I would recommend Pacific Front without hesitation based on my experience as a customer. I have no connection with Pacific Front, other than as a satisfied customer. Kurt Greiner SeaPhoto Maritime Photography http://warshipphotos.com Warship Models Underway http://members.aol.com/wmunderway/home.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "Phil Linnik" Subject: Comparison Shopping is Good :-) Hi I am new here I signed up at the advice of a friend so that I could get tips on ship models including where to get stuff. I dont think anybody should jump on Lee because what he said. Me, I dont know why anybody would eat at McDonalds but saying that doesnt stop them selling a milion rubber hamburgers every day. Somebody might get on my case now especially if they are frends with Ronald McDonald oh well thats the price of freedom. :-) But seroiusly actually I never heard of Pacific Front until Lee mentiond it and I checked out their site and theres some interesting stuff there and some is expensive and some isnt to bad. I might buy some things. So you see the dialog works both ways. The important thing is to just keep a dialog going. If a guy thinks a place is selling something I want too expensinve i like to know about it and if theres a place to get it cheaper I really want to know about that too, but maybe thats just Me! Speaking of me if anybodys interested I am working on a model of the IOWA, (the OLD one!) Thanks P H I L -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "John Rule" Subject: Pacific Front >> Why would anyone order from Pacific Front, their prices are the highest. << Well I for one do buy from Pacific Front. I also buy from a lot of other companies too. I do have to agree with Steve Wiper when he says that Pacific Front has done more for the ship modelling fraternity than any other single player. They carry a very extensive range of ship related products. I agree that on some items their prices are high, but on the other hand they have a lot of items that no-one else does. I do buy from other sources in Germany, Poland, Canada, England and the USA, but still regularly send orders to Pacific Front. I think they are still providing a valuable service, and although I do not fault anyone for not buying from them if they can get a better deal elsewhere, I don't think it right to advocate that others should not. Happy shipbuilding and collecting. Sincerely, John Rule -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "Devin J. Poore" Subject: Don't throw away that old warship! Thought some of you might find this recycling trend of old warships interesting. I know I was surprised at the ingenuity: http://www.fra.org/navalaffairs/9603/na9603g.html Devin -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: melee Subject: Re: PF Hello, The quote used, "There are those who know the cost of everything and the value of nothing." is being used out of context. Let's use my Akagi for example. The Pacific Front ship is Neptun, the East Coast ship is Neptun and the ship from Christian Schmidt and Galerie Maritim are Neptun, so the value is the same. Now the cost. Pacific Front, over 100USD, East Coast (in the US) 89USD, Christian Schmidt, 160DM (about 80USD) plus 10DM shipping if shipped slowly, so 170 DM(about 85USD). For the same value, very different prices. The next time you feel like using a quote, at least make sure it is apropriate for the point you are trying to make. A good use for your quote would be the true story below. Before leaving the US to teach English overseas, I was in charge of the Purchasing Department for a small company. When we needed a new copier, I compared 5 companies on price and maintenance, then picked the best one. As you point out, the cheapest was not the best one, usually. Since the ships are the same, (new ships), then you compare price, and in this case, Pacific Front has no reasonable defense for it's high prices. I am not commenting on his finding hard to get items, just new Neptun ships, available form many distributors. Instead of receiving so much flak from people who are being fleeced, why doesn't Bill Gruner defend himself regarding his prices for new ships??? This might be a time to quote a famous children's story....""The emperor has no clothes on." -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: rweilach@mindspring.com Subject: Pacific Front >> Why would anyone order from Pacific Front, their prices are the highest. << My experience is that their prices are most competitive in the US for 1/700 plastic models, and about the same for 1/700 resin (if the resin ships can even be FOUND elsewhere). I must note I usually only do WWII USN subjects. Further, Bill Gruner is very knowledgable, carries a fantastic inventory, and is a one-stop shop for just about anything (naval) I need. I do not hesitate to say I use Pacific Front Hobbies for 95 percent of all my needs (yes, sorry I do armor sometimes as well). Satisfied customer without any interest/connection to PFH (except through my VISA bill), Rob Weilacher -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: "Bruce" Subject: C-span Anyone looking for a strange TV channel to view great information about the Navy's Carriers try: www.c-span.org then look for links about USS Nimitz as of this time-frame, west coast time at 18;34hrs, on program still on the air giving a great tour all around the Carrier Nimitz also showed a tour, showing a walk through the hanger bay and flight OPPS as well as talking calls from people all over the west coast this program was tapedin 1997 plezze check your local listings enjoy the show. Bruce -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: RhinoBones@aol.com Subject: Gifts, Pyro Maine, EAGLE & Bachman I have three topics of discussion . . . no, make that four topics of discussion. The first one is; what ship or modeling gift did you received for Christmas (please keep it clean and on topic)? My mother in law, of all people, gave me "The Encyclopedia of Ships" edited by Chris Marshall. This is not the kind of book you would ever scratch build from but it does contain a color profile and basic spec sheet on over 1200 ships of the world navies. From just a quick review, maybe 60% of the ships listed hail from the 1860 - 1900 time period. My absolute favorite period. There are a great many French, Austrian, Russian, Spanish and Italian ships which I have never seen before. Absolutely wonderful. Secondly, I have seen on e-Bay a number of 1950's Pyro kits for a pseudo USS Maine and I am curious whether anyone has built this kit. From the pictures on e-Bay the hull looks to be a USS Olympia clone with several gun casements just below the main deck. Obviously a hybrid kit . . . but looks to be a fun kit to build. Opinions. Third. Also on e-Bay are new listings for eleven EAGLE brand 1:1200 scale ships kits. All are listed at $15 and they are the most popular HMS and DKM ships from WWII. I have no idea who EAGLE is, but I do know that some interest has been shown recently on this forum and that these kits could possibly be a good value for a collector of this scale. Fourth. Also on e-Bay is a group of 5 WWII Mini-Ships manufactured by Bachman. Starting price was $25 for the entire group. I assume that these are also 1200/1250 scale ships but that is for the interested to decide. Have two bottles of bubbly chilling. One is for New Year's eve and the other is for New Years morning. Happy New Year to you and your families. Best wishes in the Year 2001 . . . may we enjoy a space odyssey. Regards, RhinoBones -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: TerrYBettYS@webtv.net (Terry Sandin) Subject: Combat Fleets I went by a Barnes and Noble bookstore here in the Bay Area this Thursday afternoon and found they had six copies of The Naval Institute Guide To Combat Fleets Of The World 1998-1999 (published 1998) by A.D. Baker III in their "Clearance" Section. I don't know if it's available via their internet site, or even at a great number of other stores, but at $24.95 the price was obviously "right." If interested, you may wish to check with a location in your area (I believe Barnes and Noble will ship it, but it weighs a "ton"). TerryS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: SJantscher@aol.com Subject: Re: Pacific Front Hi All, At the risk of beating a dead horse, I too want to stand up for Bill and Pacific Front. I'm very price sensitive in shopping for my hobby, and I've never felt ripped off when dealing with Bill and PF. Bill stocks a lot of popular as well as esoteric stuff. I don't know just how many Type 2 Japanese mini-subs by Fine Molds he stocks, but he had one when I ordered it. If you pay a little more for one kit this time, it may be to help cover the overhead for him sitting on these slow mover that you'll want next time (the sub is a great kit by the way). I'm not trying to beat up on anybody, just trying to let those other SMML readers out there know that Pacific Front does have loyal and satisfied customers too. Good Luck and Happy New Year, Steve Jantscher Ice bound in snowy Minnesota -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: "William Oreto" Subject: Re: Pacific Front Hobbies Steve and Tom Bravo for your remarks concerning PacFront. If it wasn't for people like Bill at Pacific Front we wouldn't have much of a hobby. I'm a Facilities/Purchasing Agent by profession and when I find a good source for goods and services I stick with it. Too much bidding and shopping around for low price means you lose creditability with the vendor. I may only be able to place an order three or four times a year with Pacific Front but Bill always treats my orders with importance, and me with patience and respect and that's why he gets my repeat business. Can't put price on that. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24) From: isublett@home.com Subject: Re: Steve Wiper/Pacific Front I'm afraid I can only say "amen", but this is not the first time that I have felt I must buy from different people with the same name that others on the list do. There was a similar comment about Squadron Shop a while ago which didn't seem to have anything to do with the organization I have dealt with for close to forty years. Possibly the reason Pacific Front seems to offer no bargains has to do with the amount of time Bill Gruner has spent with me. I'm hopefully one of his smallest customers (if I'm not he's near to staving to death), but I've never seen as much attention to my orders by anybody. Sometimes we just must accept that if we spend the least, we end by paying the highest price. (On a lighter note: my spellcheck just gave me "small" and "smell" for SMML - I guess we now know where we rate) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 25) From: "RON" Subject: Re: Pacific Front I may not be a world class model builder. My work may never grace the pages of the magazines or the internet. I'm not even sure that the finished model wouldn't make ISW or CW hide their faces and deny it was any of their products. But I do know that my hours of enjoyment are directly related to the efforts of Pacific Front and Bill Gruner. PFH has always delivered as promised. They have always taken the time to answer my amateur questions. They have always made me feel that I was welcome at PFH and the ship modeling community. I think that is worth a few pennies if not dollars more. Ron Schmitt -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 26) From: SteveWiper@aol.com Subject: Re: Pacific Front >> "There are those who know the cost of everything and the value of nothing" << Tom, You could not have said it better! Steve Wiper -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 27) From: "Victor M. Baca" Subject: Calypso Hi Shaya: The Calypso was indeed an ex-USN minesweeper of the YMS class. She was built in Seattle as the J-826 and lend-leased to Great Britain. She was purchased by Jacques Cousteau postwar (at the time, she was used as a coastal ferry in Malta). Calypso/J-826 was of the early YMS design with two stacks arranged down the centerline. Originally, she had a typical WWII style rounded bridge face which was modernized with outward facing bridge windows in 1958. Her name means "Water Nymph" and it is apt (I like to remember her as she appeared on TV, slicing through the ocean waves with porpoises playfully leading the way to new adventures). There was an excellent book titled, "Jacques Cousteau's Calypso" written by Jacques Cousteau and Alexis Sivirine in 1983, published by Harry N. Abrams of New York. It's a must-have in any ship enthusiast's library. Chock full of plans and photos with a full anatomy of the Calypso done as color artwork--beautiful. Victor Baca MODEL SHIP JOURNAL -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 28) From: "Victor M. Baca" Subject: Pacific Front I've had no problems with Pacific Front and recommend them to any ship modeler primarily interested in naval ships. My main interests run counter to the crowd and Pacific Front came through like a champ when I needed an offbeat book about the Japanese Coast Guard. The price was very reasonable. Admittedly I had to wait a bit to receive it, but when it arrived, I was more than happy and the book was exactly as advertised. Pricing and selling product is a hard beast to get a grip on. One company may sell higher than another simply because they are a small operation without the buying power of the "big boys." You would need to determine if they are buying at the dealer, distributor or master distributor level before you even begin to understand their pricing structure. The trade off is that you often get more knowledgable service from a small operation and are dealing with a person who may be "closer" to the hobby than some guy at corporate headquarters. Professionally speaking, I have dealt often with Pacific Front and am impressed with their attention to detail and have never had a problem on that level either. The bottom line? Every company has its customers who have problems no matter how careful the proprietor is. I guess it's one of those laws of business that if something goes wrong, trouble almost always seems to pick the one customer who you're trying hardest to satisfy. So far, I've seen far more positive SMML postings about PacFront and just wanted to show some support as well. Happy Modeling and may your New Year bring good things, Victor Baca MODEL SHIP JOURNAL -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 29) From: Dave Shirlaw Subject: Calypso Calypso was one of the YMS type wood hull minesweepers. They were built in three variants: 2 stack, 1 stack and no stack. Diesel propulsion. Other famous member of this class include: Gray Goose - John Wayne yacht Uchuk III - In service to this day as a passenger/freight vessel on the west coast of Vancouver Island. These ships were well suited to the North Pacific fishing industry. Post World War II many became fish packers in BC and Alaska. The last survivor in BC was the Western Express which is still laid up with a partially demolished sister in the Fraser River near Vancouver. Dave Shirlaw Editor, Seawaves Magazine www.seawaves.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 30) From: "Pletscher-Lenz-Schneider" Subject: Pacific Front Hobbies When I read Lee's first comment, I only shook my head, but when I read his response in SMML 1107, I really grew angry about his ignorance. Hi Lee, if you think you are so clever, why don't you go out and get your models directly from the manufactorers in Germany, Poland, Russia, Italy, France or Japan? This might be a healthy lesson for you. You may, for example, learn that getting a 80$ Neptun model from Germany will cost you some 15-20$ shipping rates. Than add the custom rates, and you will gladly come back to "Old Bill Gruner" who is trying to earn his and his family's living by providing as with all these goodies at reasonable prices and keeping the customers satisfied (even if they should be fools who don't deserve it) Falk Pletscher P.S.: I, who am living in Germany, even got sometimes Russian or Polish models earlier and less expensive from Pacific Front Hobbies than I could have got them here in Europe. Thanks for that, Bill! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 31) From: "Sean D. Hert" Subject: Dunkerque's Screws Hi Everyone- BTW- Thanks to all those who answered my questions about the Samek Models! Can anyone confirm how many blades the screws for the Dunkerque / Strasbourg had? Thx, Garzke Sean D. Hert -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 32) From: "Baumbach, Werner" Subject: Service history of HMS Sirius (F40, Leander Class Frigate) Hello all, With the amazing resources of this group, maybe there is someone who can fill my gaps on this one. I am still into my HMS Sirius (1991) project (thanks to all who have contributed to this so far, you have been a tremendous help) and I just getting some background information together to have the whole story. Does anyone have a service history on this boat, here is what I got so far. 1970. Assists in rescue in ferry disaster in Caribbean. March 1974. Exercise 'Safe Pass'. 1977. Exocet conversion, Lynx helicopter. 1978. Leader of 6th Frigate Squadron. 1983. Refit to included Towed Array Sonar submarine tracking system. July 1986. Visit to Providence, USA. 1998. In the care of DRSO at Pembroke Dock. 19th September 1998. Sunk as target, by torpedo in the Atlantic Also a couple of questions to these dates. What was the ferry disaster in the Carribean (I have learned that she was awarded the Wilkinson Sword of Peace). What was the Exercise Safe Pass. Also, I have vague information that she participated in an exercise with an american carrier (exercise teamwork) in 1992. Would anybody know what carrier that was? A similar exercise should have taken place in 1989/1990? Anybody? And finally, does anyone know of Sirius role during the Falklands war? Well, that is it for today. I wish everybody a great, healthy, peaceful and succesful Happy New Year. Cheers Werner -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 33) From: "melvin" Subject: It is not fair to make such statement about Pacific Front Dear Mr.Lee, I just read your statement on Smml. What you stated on the Smml is not always the truth. But I really can't take that you seem to ruin the fame of a store with good reputation. I am a super ship model fan. My collection including all kinds of ship models such as resin kits, 1/1250 metal ship models and books. Many of them were shipped by Bill Gruner of Pacific Front Hobbies. I know that the basic principle of ordering from internet hobbyshops. That is you should order the ship models from the store of manufacter's country. The 1/1250 metal ship models are almost 80% produced in Germany. Then You can order this deligate ship models in Germany. It all up to you to make the order from different internet shops in different conutry. according to price. Not only you but everyone will know this. And some specific items will only be found in Pacific Front Hobbies.So people have their right to order from Pacific Front Hobbies. When I confront the tough situation as your case,I will become anxious to get the positive replying like you.(Although even now, the tough situation never happened to me.) What I don't know is that if the situation is so bad and not negotiable for you to post a fierce criticism on Smml.And if the Service of Pacific front Hobbies is so bad. Then you are not the first one to make this kind of criticism. Bill Gruner's Pacific Front Hobbies have already been insulted to death with no survuving. I still believe that proper and polite  statement will earn good replying even applaud. Frankly speaking, I have never seen such drastically rebuke posted by you after I subscribed to Smml. And if I were you, I will wait for the cure of tough situation patiently, especially about the risk of internationl mail order. I think you don't build ship models but only have collection of metal ship models.Then you don't know what a hard situation to play ship models in Taiwan. Most resin kits, photoetch parts, accessory parts, books even many plastic ship models are not acquired in Taiwan easily. So I really cherish the source of professional ship model shop like Pacific Front Hobbies. And the purpose why we posted on Smml lies in exchanging information,making friends, and good advice or suggestion, not like this. I hope your case will be finally resolved. And my faithful opinion is that think over your statement not only on your side but also others's before posting. Thanks! Melvin Tung -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 34) From: "SINGLAR,STEVE (A-Andover,ex1)" Subject: USS Pringle Awards I received this message this morning regarding the awards for USS Pringle, plus an additional site for researching ship's histories. Hope this helps. Happy New Year to all! Steve Singlar Pelham, NH >> Sir, A quick look at the history file shows that PRINGLE should have earned the: American Campaign Medal Asiatic-Pacific Campaign Medal (w/ 10 Battle Stars) World War II Victory Medal Philippine Liberation Medal There may be others that are not that obvious without a closer examination of their history. The easiest way to ascertain these is to contact the Navy History Center and asked for a copies of historical documents that they have on the ship. Navy Historical Center Ship's History Building 57 Washington Navy Yard Washington DC 20374 v/r mahar << -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 35) From: Chris Crofoot Subject: Chun San I've seen a Chinese gunboat in the most recent Squadron flier. She is called the Chin San, 2 pipes, weapons for and aft with a high forecastle. The kit is sold by trumpeter.... it's unusual so attracts my attention...anybody know anything about her or the kit? Chris Crofoot "Quemadmoeum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est" A sword is never a killer, it is a tool in the killer's hands. -----Seneca, 45 AD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 36) From: "Melvin Burmaster" Subject: Re: Martola Kits I have accessed the Martola Model Store website twice since the posting by "Mike." There is no listing on the site for any kits produced under the Marttola brand. However, there is a complete listing of ModelKrak offerings (including some not seen in US distributor lists, hopefully these are not merely "projected" kits) and a company called NRC Resin kits, which does produce the Brooklyn. (In fact there are pictures one can access to view the resin model.) Unfortunately, the initial disclaimer states that minimum orders are 150 pounds sterling (the last true "pound sterling" I've seen is a Churchill commemorative pound sterling, but in any event a minimum order of over $300 US is a tad steep!) Hopefully this is a mistake on the part of the poor chap who interpreted the website for English readers. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Christopher Decker Subject: ICM models ships - SMML Special Hi all: I have a special offer for members of the SMML mailing list. For a limited time, SMML'ers can purchase either the ICM GroBer Kurfurst or the ICM Konig for $49.00, plus $5 shipping in the US. Oversea, email us for a price on shipping. Email Nauticus Models at mailto:orders@nauticusmodels.com if you are interested, be sure you reference the SMML special. Thanks! Chris Decker President Nauticus Models -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Ray8017@aol.com Subject: FS: Ships we have for sale Resin kits Civl War iron clads,,Bushnells Turtle, Palmetto State, Keokuk, Hundley, the Pioneer the Davis..Brochures available if interested ray8017@aol.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://www.smml.org.uk Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://www.tac.com.au/~sljenkins/apma.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume