Subject: SMML VOL 1110 Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2001 06:47:02 +1100 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: USS Constitution 2: Re: Warship identification 3: Book Review - Advanced Ship Modeling by Brian King 4: Re: Don't throw away that old warship! 5: HMS Cardiff 6: Re: Combat Fleets 7: Re: Charles De Gaulle 8: Bill Gruner Senior 9: 1200/1250 WW1 ships 10: PFH and EJ King 11: Samson 12: IJN Kaitens and Paul Kemp 13: Belgian Minesweepers at Work 14: Naval ship identification etc 15: Warship Identification 16: USS Maine 17: GMM 1/700 Cable Reel PE Set: A Proposition for IJN/Kriegsmarine Fans 18: Re: Warship Identification 19: 1/1250? 20: Manufacturers/retailers wanted - 1:1200/1250 21: Calypso & HMS Sirius 22: Re: Pyro U.S.S. Maine 23: Re: Warship Identifcation -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Infomation 1: USS Ward? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: ships FS 2: Book for Sale -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS Hi all, Happy New Year to one & all. May 2001 be far better than 2001 Shane & Lorna Drinking OT stuff at the moment - rum folllowed by port ;-) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Jim Roberts" Subject: Re: USS Constitution >> Oh yes, she's still there, and still in commision. Last summer, she completed an extnded yard period, had a good going over her hull to clean up rotted wood etc. I think this was only the second time in her 200+ year career she was in the drydock, but I'm not sure. She was taken out on the water for a brief cruise, but little or no wind that day did her no good. There are photos floating around on the net of the Constitutiuon saling with an Arleigh Burke class destoyer << Actually CONSTITUTION has been dry-docked/overhauled a number of times IIRC, major re-building and dry-docking were accomplished in 1833-35, 1854-55, 1927-31, 1973-74 and 1994-97. There were lesser overhauls/repairs conducted in Naples, 1804 or 1805 after a collision in which she lost her original Hercules figurehead, again in 1811 or 12 and also I believe around 1820. The 1994-97 rebuild re-installed diagonal riders in the hold which had been given to her when she was built, but which had been removed during the 1833 rebuild and not re-installed until 1994. The re-installation of these riders was one of the factors that allowed her to sail under her own power in 1998 for the first time in 100 years, though it is doubtful that she will do much more. Jim Roberts Budd Lake, NJ Member: Nautical Research Guild Ship Model Society of Northern New Jersey -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "J. London" Subject: Re: Warship identification The model in question would appear to be either BARHAM or MALAYA, sister ships of WARSPITE which is the first ship shown on this site. WARSPITE had undergone extensive modifications including the replacement of the trunked funnel found on the other two. Michael London -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: SeaPhoto@aol.com Subject: Book Review - Advanced Ship Modeling by Brian King Once in a while, a book comes along that provides not only information, but inspiration. For warship modelers, Building Model Warships, by PC Coker, was such a title when it was published a quarter century ago. The combination of solid information along with many, many photographs of top quality models makes that volume popular to this day with those who build scale model warships. Once again, we are lucky enough to see a new book from a master modeler, this time noted British craftsman Brian King. "Advance Ship Modeling" gives both guidance and a goal; to build top quality models. Mr. King is widely known to readers of Model Boats and Marine Modelling, two publications from the United Kingdom, because of the fantastic ship models he builds - exquisite miniatures of fairly common subjects, such as the King George V class of Battleships, and the more obscure, as in a series of Victorian Era capital ships. These large scale models (1/192 and larger) have won high awards at some of the most prestigious shows, such as England's Model Engineer Exhibition. The book covers the basics of ship modeling; choosing a subject, research, tools and materials, painting, rigging, and then goes on to more advance techniques. The use of machine tools in ship modeling is discussed, as are the preparation of photoetching artwork, making fiberglass hulls, casting of parts, and thermo forming with sheet plastic. At the end is a short chapter covering the construction of display cases. All of these subjects are more than adequately covered and illustrated through the use of line drawings and black and white photographs. For the most part these are excellent, but inexplicably a few have the telltale lack of resolution resulting from a computer scanned photograph of insufficient file size. This does not detract from the value of the book though, in my opinion. Certainly, the invaluable construction information would justify the price of this book, but Brian King did not stop there. 16 pages of color plates show both overall and detail views of completed models, tools and processes. A lot can be learned from careful study of these pictures, particularly those of semifinished components. I wish this book was longer, but at 118 pages it does do justice to the subject. It is a large format paperbound volume, so that many pages have multiple illustrations of adequate size, particularly in the color section. Certainly, I would have enjoyed many more views of Mr. King's finished works I would highly recommend this book to all ship modelers who have a yearning to see and undertake work of very high quality. Modelers of late 19th through mid 20th century warships will find even more to appreciate in it's pages. Availability is spotty, but I purchased my copy through Wise Owl Publications, who also distribute some of the English model magazines. Their web site is: www.wiseowlmagazines.com Advanced Ship Modeling By Brian King Swanley, Nexus Special Interests 2000 ISBN 1-85486-197-2 Kurt Greiner SeaPhoto Maritime Photography http://warshipphotos.com Warship Models Underway http://members.aol.com/wmunderway/home.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: NAVYDAZE@aol.com Subject: Re: Don't throw away that old warship! One of the ships, and I do not know which one, is tied up to some of the other mothballed ships in Susuin (sp) just a hull and two stacks that is about it. Maybe the 01 level too can't tell from the bridge. Actually I have photos of all of them when they were at Hunters Point and they had just cut the bridge, mast and ASROC off the first one and they were all sitting on the pier. Strange feeling to look inside a ships bridge and see asphalt for a floor (pier). Michael Donegan Navydaze Naval & Aviation Artist. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Tom Eisenhour" Subject: HMS Cardiff The HMS Cardiff was at NS Mayport, Florida last month. Does anyone know why? What class is she? Best wishes for a Happy New Year to all my SMML shipmates! Tom Eisenhour In cold and sunny Austin, Texas -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: TerrYBettYS@webtv.net (Terry Sandin) Subject: Re: Combat Fleets 1. I've received a couple of messages "off list" regarding my posting the other day about "The Naval Institute Guide To Combat Fleets Of The World" being available at Barnes and Noble for $24.95 (1998-1999 edition). Evidently it's not available at all stores so here's the phone # for the Pleasant Hill/Concord, California store where I found it (as of noon today, Saturday, they had a few copies remaining): 925-609-7060 2. While the topic has been run into the ground, I wish to second all the positive comments regarding Bill Gruner and Pacific Front. Having forwarded a portion of many payroll checks Bill's direction over the past few years, I can quote the old cliche that in this case you "get what you pay for" and a whole lot more. 3. A sincere wish to each of you and your families for a most joyous New Year/New Century and great 2001. TerryS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "Tim Brooks" Subject: Re: Charles De Gaulle Merci' John-Paul Interesting site. I was a bit surprised at the (relatively) small size of the screws. They don't appear to be much larger (judged by the people on them, maybe French mateys are big guys) than what we put on our modern destroyers (Burke, Spruance). Very interesting, indeed. I would guess that that broken tip coupled with a relatively high-speed screw probably vibrated the ship somewhat more than the washing machines. Joke? You're kidding, right? You take ribbing from a county that can't manage to elect a president all by itself? Tim Brooks -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "Quinn Bracken" Subject: Bill Gruner Senior >> I ordered from Bill Gruner just a week and a half ago. Someone had mentioned on this list about a kit of a fleet sub, so I called to get one for my dad. He was pleasant on the phone, and in talking found out his dad had skippered a fleet boat in WW2, the SKATE. Here was the owner of the company being helpful and taking a minute to chat a little. In this day and age, a little warmth and personableness(is this a word?) from a mail-order company is nice, and worth a penny or two if you ask me. I'll be ordering again! << Not only that, but despite Bill Gruner Senior's age, he is still a very feisty and active character. He was a major contributor in the production of SSI's awesome submarine simulation game, "Silent Hunter". SSI put quite a few of "Bud" Gruner's audio interviews on the game disk, and had alot to do with how the game was played and layed out, and you can listen to him re-count his many wartime experiences, from routine sub operations to the sinking of the Japanese light cruiser Agano around Truk and the destruction of IJN Merchantmen in the frigid Sea of Ohtohsk. Happy New Year! Quinn Bracken -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "wblad" Subject: 1200/1250 WW1 ships Irregular miniatures has WW1 Brit DDs of the K, L, and M classes plus the Lightfoot leaders, at reasonably cheap prices. They also have the monitor Glatton and CL Boadicea, plus the German BBs Kaiser and Helgoland. Most of the rest of their Trafalgar 1200 line are WW2 warships or merchantmen. Their web address is: www.irregularminiatures.co.uk -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: GKingzett@aol.com Subject: PFH and EJ King You know, this is a funny hobby. We want and need information of all kinds for our own enjoyment. We spend endless hours gathering, evaluating and disseminating that information. As hobbyists, we put no monetary value on our time, we do it for the enjoyment. But, we are very dependent upon professionals who do this same thing for money; even with communication tools such as SMML, we still depend very much on professionals to GIVE US information at a price very much below its cost or value. Then, after receiving this information, we like to complain about the high cost of the hobby. That seems very hypocritical to me. The value is in the information, not in the plastic. We trust Bill Gruner, because we have learned we can. We trust John Snyder, because we have learned we can. We trust Shane and Lorna for the same reasons. What do you think the monetary return is for any of these people? None of us would work at our professions for the miserable monetary return these endeavors give to them, and there are many more examples. But not enough. If we are looking for a New Year's resolution, how about everybody, lurkers and shirkers, as well as the regulars, resolve to put something INTO the hobby this year, and share it? Now climbing down from the soapbox. Can anyone direct me to a good biography of Admiral EJ King, or an accurate history of the US Joint Chiefs of Staff during WW 2? I have read enough negative comments both from US and British sources to indicate that the Allies may have won the war in spite of King, rather than because of him. His anti-British prejudice is well known, but he seems to be blamed for EVERTYHING, including Pearl Harbor, the U-Boat Happy Time and the foul up at Guadalcanal. How could one person find time to screw up so many things, and still keep his job? Are there any accurate discussions of this, either US or British? Thanks for listening. Gary -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: melee Subject: Samson Hello, For a dog to decide that it is time to depart from his adopted human, is a sad thing. I once was lucky enough to have a cat adopt me (I say it this way, since she chose to return home every night.) I still remember her. Bill, despite what you might think, my sympathy goes out over this loss. Happy New Year to all Sincerely, Lee Errin Shackelford -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: Ismail Hassenpflug Subject: IJN Kaitens and Paul Kemp Good day, First of all, a Happy New Year to all the SMML list members. May 2001 be a fruitful year for ship modeling. I have a question for anyone knowledgable about the kaiten manned torpedos used by the IJN late in WW2. I have been researching these for over a year now, and have photographs of several, both from my own camera and from various books. I have been referred to a Mr. Paul Kemp of London, as a knoweldgable person on underwater assault craft, but do not have a contact address (mail or snail) for him. Could someone help? Lastly, if any of the list members have documents, photographs or books on kaiten which do not occur in the list below, please let me know. I would be interested in acquiring such further reference materials, or copies thereof. I am building a series of kaiten Mk.1s from the lovely EuII (Fine Molds) kits. Books and magazines I possess: (Kaijinsha) Ships of the World 569 - History of IJN Submarines (Kaijinsha) Ships of the World 576 - December 2000 Watts, IJN Warships (not useful) Fukui, IJN Vessels at the end of WW2 (not useful) The above materials are enough to build kaiten test example No.10 fairly accurately. I know of but do not possess: (Kojinsha) IJN Warships Series, Volume on IJN Submarines Boyd & Yoshida,"The japanese submarine Force and WW2" Norman Polmar, "Submarines of the IJN" If someone could comment on the usefulness from a modeling point of view, and interest from a historical/research point of view, of the latter two works above, I would be most grateful. Photos I have taken: kaiten Mk.1 at Yasukuni shrine, Tokyo (small conning tower, original configuration) kaiten Mk.1 near Tenryuji temple, Kyoto (large conning tower, maybe not all original) Photos I am expecting: kaiten Mk.1 at Naval Undersea Museum, Keyport, Washington (this is put together from various...) If anyone knows of further information I would be grateful....I intend to put a compilation on my website after completing research to my satisfaction. In Japan, there is a kaiten association, does anyone know of this? Best regards, Ismail -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "Robert Mosher" Subject: Belgian Minesweepers at Work Picked up a small article recently from the Brussels LE SOIR regarding Belgian minesweepers at work (yes at work) off of the Baltic coast of Latvia. The most recent reported operation ran from October 24 to November 17 and involved the Tripartite class minesweeper NARCIS on its third mission. According to the story there are still some 85,000 German and Soviet mines, bombs, and torpedoes along the Baltic coasts. The operation uses surviving German records to identify areas to work, nothing was said about information on Soviet mines. The first such operation reportedly took place in 1998 and eight countries have since participated - Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Belgium, Sweden, Norway, the UK, and the Netherlands. Working in a gridplan, the ships use sonar and remote control submarines (and sometimes divers) and video equipment to identify mines and other ordnance. The NARCIS this time located four mines and four torpedoes. These are usually destroyed in place with a small explosive charge. Altogether, this latest operation cleared around 60 mines, torpedoes, and bombs. I have heard a lot about clearing antipersonnel landmines, but little is heard about the continuing threat of seamines. I think a salute is in order to all those countries and the ships they send to carry out this effort. According to JANE'S, NARCIS was laid down of Feb 25 1988, launched on June 20, 1989, and in service Sep 27, 1990. Displ: 511 tons; Speed: 15 kts; DIM: 51.6 X 8.96 X 2.49 (hull) meters. Armament: 1 20mm AA RANGE: 3,000km / 12 kts -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "sell4853" Subject: Naval ship identification etc Regret cannot make a positive ID on the photo but looks similar to HMS Royal Sovereign/ HMS Queen Elizabeth HMS Ramilies. See http://www.hmsramillies.org.uk/ and also............. http://www.ukans.edu/~kansite/ww_one/naval/n0000000.htm which has a great deal of information for SMMilers Happy & Prosperous New Year Norman SELLS in snow bound Kent UK -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "Simon Wolff" Subject: Warship Identification Hi you all... It looks like a RN Battleship, possibly Royal Sovereign/Oak????????????? very nicely done... (can say it definitely is a battleship - lots of 'bigguns') It is a pity that there is no modellers name and subject to each photo, as there are some lovely looking models. Well it is midday here in Sydney, twelve hours left to the end of the 20th Century and the year 2000... happy new year to all.. Down to the city to celebrate and watch the fireworks... Simon Wolff -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: RhinoBones@aol.com Subject: USS Maine >> It is highly inaccurate, IPOF as I recall they even managed to mis-place the main turrets which should be off centerline, one on each side! If you want a Maine, Go to the Commanders/IronShipwright resin kit << I do happen to have a USS Maine (Commander Series) and it is the number two on my 2001 "Warship" build list. I intend to take some pictures along the way and offer them to interested parties. Earlier this summer I was at a local model fair, courtesy of an invitation by another SMML aficionado. This person fronted $40 to buy a (very slightly) built USS Maine and I thank this person very much. Thank you Mr. K. I have been trying to sharpen the few skills I have with some plastic (and one NNT resin destroyer) to the point where I can do the Commander's Maine justice. Certainly not up to the standards of the pros, but I think that by the middle of the year my USS Maine will be on the stands and looking good in my eyes. Earlier today I looked at the e-Bay Pyro Maine auction and found that the kit was going for about $45. This seems to be an absurd price for a person who might want to actually build the kit . . . but maybe for the people into speculation this is a good price. My interest in this kit is solely for the purpose of building a fun kit. Much the same as building a Jules Verne Nautilus submarine. Pure fiction, but nice to have on the shelf. Thanks to you and to ALROSS2@aol.com for the good information and responses. Regards, RhinoBones -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: maeisen@erols.com Subject: GMM 1/700 Cable Reel PE Set: A Proposition for IJN/Kriegsmarine Fans Folks: I was wondering if there are any IJN or Kriegsmarine modelers in the US who have purchased the GMM 1/700 Cable Reel PE Set (700-28)and who don't need the USN and/or RN reels on the fret. I build RN and USN subjects exclusively, and am reluctant to plop down the $5 for the entire fret, when I would be using only a small fraction of the reels. Will gladly pay "fair market value" (whatever that might be!) for the RN/US reels plus shipping costs. I'd like to buy several frets if possible, but would be glad to hear from you even if you have only one to sell! Please reply off-line and thanks for your help! Yours truly, Mike Eisenstadt -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: Subject: Re: Warship Identification Hello: RhinoBones As best as I can guess I belive that it is a BB of WWI vintage and most likely British. So you were not too far off in your guess in my estimate any way. That is as good a guess as I can give with out looking at any other angels of the model. Hope that helps: Matthew Greer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: Ned Barnett Subject: 1/1250? I've read a number of posts about kits or ships of this size; I've seen nothing, though, in my local hobby shops. Any suggestions on a kit I could get to try out this scale? And if so, where? Thanks Ned -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: Minadmiral@aol.com Subject: Manufacturers/retailers wanted - 1:1200/1250 Hi Guys; I want to expand on yesterdays post. I can find all the German manufacturers and Alnavco. What other sources are there for new and used ship models in the above scales? I am currently looking for WWI German and British CL and smaller, in wargame quantities. Also Spanish-American war ships. That is full classes for cruisers and larger and 8 or so for destroyers. At other times I may / will have need of anything from ancient through modern. Do list members have any surplus ships to sell? Thanks Chuck Duggie WoodenWalls Listmeister Naval wargamer, amateur naval historian, and ship modeler -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: "Robert Burgerhout" Subject: Calypso & HMS Sirius Dear all, First my best wishes to all SMMLies for 2001. Re. Calypso. The Calypso was built by Ballard Marine Railway Co, Inc., in Seattle as the BYMS 2026. Laid down 12 Aug. 1941, launched 21 March 1942, and completed on 22 Aug. 1942. Served in the Royal Navy in the 153rd Flottila from 1943 to 1946. Returned to the USN on 01 Aug. 1947. and sold. Pennant number: J-826 Source: History of the BYMS by Patrick Griffiths, with plans by John Lambert, published in Warship International No. 1 & 2, 1997. Re. HMS Sirius. I think that I can give you the complete picture of the deployment of the Leanders during the Falkland War and its follow-up. Deployment during the war (till 15-06-82) ANDROMEDA F57 10-05-82 dep. from Devonport (Bristol Group) 10-09-82 ret. at Devonport ARGONAUT F56 19-04-82 dep. from Devonport (Canberra Group) 26-06-82 ret. at Devonport MINERVA F45 10-05-82 dep. from Devonport (Bristol Group) 10-09-82 ret. at Devonport PENELOPE F127 10-05-82 dep. from Devonport (Bristol Group) 10-09-82 ret. at Devonport Deployment after the war. BACCHANTE F69 17-05-82 dep. from Portsmouth 07-07-82 arr.South Atlantic 30-08-82 ret. at Portsmouth CHARYBDIS F75 06-08-82 recommissioned 08-11-82 dep. from Devonport 25-03-83 ret. at Devonport DANAE F47 18-06-82 dep. from Devonport 17-10-82 ret. at Devonport DIOMEDE F16 22-06-82 dep. from Portsmouth 17-10-82 ret. at Portsmouth MINERVA F45 29-11-82 dep. from Devonport (2nd Tour !!) 24-03-83 ret. at Devonport PHOEBE F42 06-09-82 dep. from Devonport 19-12-82 ret. at Devonport SIRIUS F40 06-09-82 dep. from devonport Hit a whale in the Bay of Biscay, 2 days repair at Gibraltar. 19-12-82 ret. at Devonport. I hope this will be sufficient. For more details, you can contact me off list. Greetings, Robert -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: Peter Webster Subject: Re: Pyro U.S.S. Maine I am curious about the configuration of the main armament on the said sighted model; are the gun housings centreline fore and aft, or, on either beam fore and aft?? Peter Webster -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: "Russell Smith" Subject: Re: Warship Identifcation RhinoBones, I don't know who built the model but it sure looks like the WWII version of H.M.S. Barham a Queen Elizabeth Class Battleship. I have one in 1/700 scale by Waveline. I got mine from Bill Gruner at Pacific Front Hobbies. Russ Smith Buried in snow and cold in rural upstate New York state. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Infomation -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Ned Barnett Subject: USS Ward? Does anyone have a photo of the USS Ward (Pearl Harbor era) that I could borrow for reproduction in an upcoming IPMS/USA Journal? We're including a kit review, as well as an excellent sidebar on the Ward's history ... I'd like to illustrate that sidebar with a photo. Full credit will be given and the photo will be returned. Thanks Ned -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Ray8017@aol.com Subject: ships FS I have a variety of plank on frame kits WW11 and later destroyers,frigates, sub chaser, LST and a Gato Sub. made by BaD ship models ..ask for free list email your mailing address. ray8017@aol.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Graham Holmes" Subject: Book for Sale In my local second hand book shop (no website), I have found a copy of Norman Friedman's US Cruisers, for US$35. Retail price new is about $55. It is in perfect condition, and has a loose plastic cover over the dust jacket. It is an excellent book if you are into US Warships. I already have a copy, but if anyone is interested, I will buy it for them and ship it. Let me know Offline. Alternatively I would swap for a Raven & Roberts British Cruisers Graham Holmes Columbus OH USA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://www.smml.org.uk Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://www.tac.com.au/~sljenkins/apma.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume