Subject: SMML Vol 1116 Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 01:20:40 -0800 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: Carrier Booms 2: Re: Sailing Ships 3: Re: Sailing Ships 4: Re: Submarine references 5: Re: Ironclads book 6: Searched the archives, but ... 7: Modern RN colours 8: Going to the United Kingdom 9: British Carrier Plans 10: Delphis 1/700 Aquila 11: Scratchbuild question 12: Chicago Blue etc 13: Radio Aerials 14: Virginia Class SSN 15: Undercoats 16: Ironclad book 17: Navy Inquiry on Cole Urges No Punishment of Captain or Crew 18: A New Destroyer May Force Choice on the Bush Team -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Infomation 1: SMML Hornet Con 2001 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: DDunn@aol.com Subject: Re: Carrier Booms >> In many pictures of aircraft carriers one can see what appear to be several long, thin, booms at the edges of the foreward flight deck, and at the foreward part of the angle deck. Sometimes they are in the vertical position, and sometimes they are horizongal, protruding out from the edge of the deck. In one picture, there appeared to be eight of these booms on ech side of the foreward flight deck. I built a plastic model of the Kittyhawk last year, but the instructions did not identify these booms. I am scratchbuilding a model of the Coral Sea, and it would help to know the function of these booms. << They're whip antennas for radio communication with aircraft. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Mike Settle Subject: Re: Sailing Ships >> 1) Some of the instructions I've read state that the threaded rigging should be waxed prior to installation. I would suppose that this would give the thread a bit more body and possibly make for tighter knots, but are there other reasons which are not obvious? Are there drawbacks? << Waxing the thread is done primarily to eliminate the "fuzziness" of the thread. >> 2) Need some suggestions for making the plastic cut out sails come alive. My current plan is to spray them with a flat white and then apply a light beige wash. Hopefully this will give them the look of worn canvas. Maybe a little darker wash along the lower edges of the sails for dramatic lighting effects. All suggestions would be appreciated. << Sounds good to me, although effective weathering is an area where I still have problems. Mike Settle I am not agent #1908 of the non-existent Lumber Cartel (tinlc)tm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Felix Bustelo Subject: Re: Sailing Ships Hi Rhinobones, The idea is to run rigging thread through beeswax and then carefully pass the thread over a candle flame to seal in the wax and burn off the frizzies. The wax will preserve the thread and make it easier to handle. This old trick, along with how to weather plastic sails, is covered in the book "Building Plastic Ship Models" by Les Wilkins and published by Kalmbach Publishing. This was reviewed on my site, International Maritime Modeling. If you contact me off-line, I can photocopy the relevant pages and mail them to you. Regards, Felix Bustelo International Maritime Modeling URL: http://members.tripod.com/~Febus65/imm.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Ives100@aol.com Subject: Re: Submarine references >> I thought I could avoid getting the sub bug, but now I've got it. As is usual, I'm looking for some good reference material for my library. Primarily, I'm looking something with a good overview of the submarine, with some good pictures (drawings and/or photos) of subs, a rundown of subs through history and in the different navies and maybe some cutaway interior shots. I'm looking for your basic one-volume submarine reference. Reality or fantasy? << Ahaaahahaha! Welcome to Fantasy Island! I have about 9 linear feet of submarine books on my library shelves, and that's still not enough to answer a lot of questions. Unfortunately, to this day, many details of submarine construction are closely held, due to sensitive design issues around silencing (particularly the propellers). Here's some starters: as far as an accurate, one volume book; I haven't seen any such beast. It also depends greatly on what time period (modern, WWII) and whose submarines (British, Japanese, German, Soviet, US, etc.) you have interest in modeling. here are several books out there (Miller & Jordan' s "Modern Submarine Warfare") that would seem to be what you want. Key word is "seem". Each page has a nice, large, color drawing of a modern submarine, and a broad range of countries are represented. The problem is, many of the details are fantasy. For example, this is one of the earliest books to show the Los Angeles class with end plates on the stern planes. This error was propagated throughout a large number of books and into the DML sub kits. It's wrong! The latest DML kit, USS Hampton, now allows one (with some work) to correct the stern. There's also a new little handbook size volume on submarine of the world out in the local Barnes & Noble (Don't recall it's name). I didn't even buy it at $12 because it is SO wrong! As far as modern US subs, an inexpensive and rather good book is Genat & Genat's "Modern US Navy Submarines". If you want to do a WWII fleet submarine, get the Floating Drydock plan book. This is an excellent source of information. Also of great use is the OOP Alden "The Fleet Submarine in the US Navy", which also covers the postwar GUPPY conversion program. Two overall excellent books are Friedman's two volume set "US Submarines through 1945" and "US Submarines since 1945". Not cheap though. But very good photos (caution: a few are reverse printed, and these are stern shots in drydock, so the propeller pitches are reversed!) and excellent line drawings. I have a couple of very detailed books on the German WWII Type VII and Type XXI submarines; outstanding model references. Bill McCant's book on the USS Flasher has an outstanding 4 page cutaway drawing of a Gato class fleet boat and the best drawings of Gato class conning tower cut down drawings s I've seen. I also have a number of line drawings of submarines from pages of the SubCommittee Report (some of which I STILL owe to John Sheridan...), so if you plan to build something, drop me a line, and if I am not working on a massive patent application on genomics as I was when John Sheridan wrote me, I will try to see if I have material I can send you. If you have a specific submarine project in mind, contact me and I can recommend resources. Sorry, but there really isn't a "one size fits all" submarine book out there; maybe I'll write one in retirement (yeah, right!). Speaking of the SubCommittee, if you really are bitten hard by the submarine bug, for $26 a year you get 4 really nice issues of The SubCommittee Report magazine. A lot of this is devoted to R/C submarines, but also has lots of general information. Besides, the R/C subs are first and foremost beautiful large scale models that happen to work. Also, the President of the SubCommittee, Jim Wheeler, semi-browbeat a member of the SubCommittee at the last SubRegatta in Groton into writing a new column on display models for the Report. The individual is a display (AKA "Static") modeler ......and this person is a member of SMML also....and was up until 12:30 last night finishing an article on the new Combat Subs resin line of submarine. There is also a SubCommittee web site open to all, members and non-members at: http://www.subcommittee.com/ Tom Dougherty -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Marc Flake Subject: Re: Ironclads book The book is "War At Sea In The Ironclad Age" by Richard Hill (ISBN: 0-304-35273-X). It's part of the Cassell's History of Warfare series edited by John Keegan. The narrative doesn't provide much new information compared to what's been published in previous books devoted to this era (which includes the pre-dreadnaughts). However, the illusrations, maps, drawings, etc. make this a stand-out. Definitely a keeper. Marc -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: Marc Flake Subject: Searched the archives, but ... Not too long ago there was some discussion about mounting full hull models on wooden bases with finials. The search feature on the site hasn't worked when I tried to use it over the past two days. Could anyone who contributed to this discussion give me an approximate date wherein this was discussed? Marc (Who's going finial hunting soon) Hi Marc, The archive's search facility was down for a couple of days, but it's back up now. Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "Fernando Espinoza" Subject: Modern RN colours HELLO smmlies: I am looking for help in getting the right Humbrol color for british ships like Amazon and Leander frigates and also the carrier Invincible. Any help would be really apprecciated. Thanks folks FEED -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "FCR" Subject: Going to the United Kingdom Hello list I am back in business but not for long. I will depart to the United Kingdom on the 13th of January and I will stay there until the end of June. I am going to study at some courses in the University of Essex, Colchester to improve my post graduation in Modern and Contemporary History. Still, since life it isn't only work and since I am going to be out of naval modelism for six months I would like at least to visit some museums, shops and places related to warships. So if you guys have any suggestion to me such as for the London Area??? It also would be nice to met with some SMMlies in the UK. Is there any meeting programmed? By the way, this e-mail is going to stay operational but I will not have access to it in my journey in the UK. I will probably have another e-mail at the University and I will sign up the SMML until I came back to Portugal. Thanks in advance Filipe C. Ramires Lisboa, PORTUGAL -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "Russell Smith" Subject: British Carrier Plans Does anyone know where I can get a set of plans for the British interwar carriers; Courageous, Glorious, Furious, Hermes and Eagle? Any scale will do as I can scale it up or down to 1/700. If plans aren't available, does anyone know of models of the Courageous, Glorious and Furious in any scale. I will buy them and make a 1/700 scale useing them as plans. I am looking for the plans to cover any time period between 1935 to 1942. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Sanartjam@aol.com Subject: Delphis 1/700 Aquila Hi SMML, Has anyone seen the Delphis 1/700 kit of the aircraft carrier Aquila? I'd like to know how good it is, and would especially like to know if the packaging managed to protect the small parts from damage. Thanks, Art Nicholson -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Phil Lord and Gayle Fink" Subject: Scratchbuild question Could an experienced scratchbuilder please post or forward some basic suggestions about making a 3" 23 cal Poole Gun in 1/72 scale for a World War I Subchaser. Al Ross has provided a fine drawing (different scale) in both AOS Campbeltown and Allied Coastal Forces Vol. One, but I'm not quite sure how to proceed. I'd especially welcome suggestions on how to fabricate the base and the breech of the gun. Not looking for superdetails or complicated techniques. Any assistance greatly appreciated! Phil Also, can anyone provide a photocopy or a scan of these two articles--- I will gladly prepay photocopying and postage charges for the former!! HMS Rodney 1944 conversion Airfix Annual 5 pp 70 Airfix 1/600 Four stacker DD conversions RN/USN? Airfix Magazine June 1966 pp 310 Hi Phil, Hmm those entries look familiar ;-). I've sent you a scan of the Rodney article. Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "M & R Brown" Subject: Chicago Blue etc Re John's posting today: A short summary of various information I have been able to gather recently on the subject is below: Professor Dakin who was in charge of camouflage in Australia in WW2 has left an interesting set of notes including: * Tests were carried out on Dakin's yacht in 1940 (no US Navy in the war then) and the best colour was a "dirty dark blue". He was lent 2 ships (one the cruiser Perth) to experiment with colour schemes. H.M.A.S. Kybra was lent by the navy and was repainted 4 times in 3 weeks. Dirty dark blue grey was the best. This was in 1940. His experiments used various shades of grey from Dark Green to Dark Blue Grey. As he started late 1940, he must have arrived at this conclusion before studying US ships. * In a letter in October 1941, he had handed over a painted model of Perth and one plan with instructions for the experimental colour scheme to be painted. The colours were Starboard Side disruptive, half light grey, half olive green. Port side, half blue grey, half dark grey. Deck same dark grey as hull. Bow wave & stern bow wave > white, patches on deck at bow & stern white. Blue Grey and Green was as on HMAS Kyabra, Light Grey (the standard light grey)for the disruptive side and Dark Green Grey for the disruptive side. None of the colours except 507C were standard British colours. They were mixed at Garden Island following experiments. This dark blue grey was not Chicago Blue. He received a report on the usefulness of her colour scheme in April 1942 after she was sunk, ie she must have been still wearing this colour scheme when sunk. * HMNZS Achilles came in with disruptive camouflage but had mixed her own paint to what they thought was the right colour and matched to a coloured sketch, which was forwarded to the ship. * In May 1941, Perth, Australia & Adelaide returned home bearing differing camouflage patterns whose designs had been left to the Captains of the ships and Perth's was that from a competition that a rating had won. * Comment on the colours for a survey ship that "MS3b indicates a darker tone of original English MS3." * A 1943 comment that the painter at Garden Island was busy matching samples of paint sent by visiting warships awaiting painting including HM & US ships ie in 1943 they did not have stocks of US paint. They matched to the colour the ship was wearing using the Mk1 eyeball! * In 1944 said that Australian ships have adopted "the single colour and rather dark tone generally accepted by the Americans as most satisfactory for Tropical Pacific waters". Comment that " curiously the colour now chosen is almost exactly what we had on the port side of H.M.A.S. Perth." * Ships left Sydney in patterned camouflage & were repainted when they joined up with US ships on American orders.(Presumably the USN supplied the paint for this as the RAN ships had only small touch up pots of the colours they left their home port in) * Instructions were issued to one cruiser to repaint per the cardboard model and watercolour sent to her. Colours Dark Blue grey hull & upperworks, deck dark grey or black & masts light blue grey. MS, B5 etc. codes not used just paint descriptions. * States that MS1, MS3, B5 & 507A only are available at Garden Island. Michael Brown -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Ned Barnett Subject: Radio Aerials >> I am scratchbuilding a model of the Coral Sea, and it would help to know the function of these booms. << Dave, I was reading in Floating Drydock's book on the Intrepid (breakfast reading of champions! ) that these are radio aerials - and they are hinged to be swung out during flight ops. This was on a WW-II Essex carrier, but I believe that those on the Kittyhawk are modern versions - whip antennae for radio telecommunications. Ned -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: Ned Barnett Subject: Virginia Class SSN >> Is this a Seawolf class or improved Los Angeles? << Some would say this is a dis-improved Seawolf - (Seawolf Lite?) - it's a less expensive version of the 'wolf, but definitely a generation later than Los Angeles. Rumor has it that it doesn't even have a periscope (in the usual sense) - just a TV camera on a pole. I understand that it's supposedly "optimized" for littoral warfare - although it seems a tad big for playing in the shallows ... Ned -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: Ned Barnett Subject: Undercoats Mike Connelley wrote about white paint: >> They all seem to be quite translucent and not that opaque (similarly for yellows and light grays). To help the white be more opaque, try painting the area with a light gray first, then go over with the white. << Ned offers ... An alternative that I recall from about 25 years ago (there I go dating myself - which can be damned lonely ) was to put down a base coat of Testors Silver - this tends to reflect colors, and is very effective (not particularly useful for ships, but still ...) for bringing out blues and reds, as I recall. White, too, works well with a Testors Silver undercoat. I'd forgotten that lost piece of modeling lore until I saw Mike's comments - as a rule, I use a light/medium gray undercoat - about the color of auto body primer - for most all of my models. It works fine with white. Ned -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: Ned Barnett Subject: Ironclad book >> A few months ago there was talk about a book on warships of the latter 19th century that had ironclad in the title. Someone had run across it at a book store and said it was a keeper. Any one remember what it was? << War at Sea in the Ironclad Age - Richard Hill (John Keegan, editor) - published by Cassell's, bought at Borders, read with relish and well worth the money. Ned -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: JRKutina@webtv.net (John Kutina) Subject: Navy Inquiry on Cole Urges No Punishment of Captain or Crew http://www.nytimes.com/2001/01/08/world/08COLE.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: JRKutina@webtv.net (John Kutina) Subject: A New Destroyer May Force Choice on the Bush Team http://www.nytimes.com/2001/01/08/politics/08SHIP.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Infomation -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Duane Fowler Subject: SMML Hornet Con 2001 Hello All, We are steaming ahead on the SMML Conference 2001 aboard the USS Hornet, CV/CVA12 April 20, 21, and 22. We have several events scheduled including a tour of the maritime exhibits at Fisherman's Wharf. I am also pursuing an option for a tour of the Suisun Bay Maritime Administration Ship Storage Facility (Mothball Fleet) featured in the February 2001 issue of Sea Classics Magazine. Check the SMML Web page for the latest announcements and news. A list of hotels will appear soon. Contact Sami Arim or Duane Fowler for details. Best regards, Duane Fowler -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://www.smml.org.uk Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://www.tac.com.au/~sljenkins/apma.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume