Subject: SMML VOL 1117 Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 23:17:41 -0800 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Nelson/Rodney scans 2: Re: Chicago Blue, etc 3: Charles de Gaulle: even more 4: Re: portholes 5: Re: 6 months in the UK 6: Help! 7: Portuguese invasion...... 8: submarine book 9: Re: G/ Averoff 10: Re: Virginia class SSN 11: Going to UK...to see the sights 12: Silent Service 13: Re: Modern RN Colours 14: Hasegawa's Tenryu and Tatsuta 15: Flower Class Gunshield Artwork -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: New Books Coming Classic Warships -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Jean-Paul Binot" Subject: Nelson/Rodney scans Hi all, There have been recently in SMML several mentions of articles (Airfix magazine etc. ) regarding conversions of Nelson/Rodney. I would be most grateful to receive scans of these. Also scans of the camouflage layouts that were published in a long out-of-print book (in the Ensign range, or was it Man of War?) of both battleships would be very useful. Many thanks in advance. Jean-Paul Binot -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: John Snyder Subject: Re: Chicago Blue, etc Fascinating stuff from Michael Brown! >> Professor Dakin who was in charge of camouflage in Australia in WW2 has left an interesting set of notes including: SNIP His experiments used various shades of grey from Dark Green to Dark Blue Grey. As he started late 1940, he must have arrived at this conclusion before studying US ships. << Concur. >> * In a letter in October 1941, he had handed over a painted model of Perth and one plan with instructions for the experimental colour scheme to be painted. The colours were Starboard Side disruptive, half light grey, half olive green. Port side, half blue grey, half dark grey. Deck same dark grey as hull. << And this dary grey was not 507A? >> Bow wave & stern bow wave > white, patches on deck at bow & stern white. Blue Grey and Green was as on HMAS Kyabra, Light Grey (the standard light grey)for the disruptive side and Dark Green Grey for the disruptive side. None of the colours except 507C were standard British colours. They were mixed at Garden Island following experiments. This dark blue grey was not Chicago Blue. He received a report on the usefulness of her colour scheme in April 1942 after she was sunk, ie she must have been still wearing this colour scheme when sunk. << I have read in several sources in the past that she was in a disruptive scheme when lost, but this is the first definitive description I've seen of it. No extant photos, I suppost.... >> * HMNZS Achilles came in with disruptive camouflage but had mixed her own paint to what they thought was the right colour and matched to a coloured sketch, which was forwarded to the ship. * In May 1941, Perth, Australia & Adelaide returned home bearing differing camouflage patterns whose designs had been left to the Captains of the ships and Perth's was that from a competition that a rating had won. << And no photos of these, either? [sigh] >> * A 1943 comment that the painter at Garden Island was busy matching samples of paint sent by visiting warships awaiting painting including HM & US ships ie in 1943 they did not have stocks of US paint. They matched to the colour the ship was wearing using the Mk1 eyeball! * In 1944 said that Australian ships have adopted "the single colour and rather dark tone generally accepted by the Americans as most satisfactory for Tropical Pacific waters". Comment that " curiously the colour now chosen is almost exactly what we had on the port side of H.M.A.S. Perth." << So in 1943 they're eyeball matching to USN colours, and by 1944 had adopted a single dark tone. Thus, while there is ample evidence that the earlier dark blue grey developed by Prof. Dakin was not derived from any USN colour, the 1943 "Chicago Blue" certainly COULD have been. My questions then are: in your opinion, was Chicago Blue a RAN match to Navy Blue 5-N, and was this the single dark tone adopted by the RAN? >> * Ships left Sydney in patterned camouflage & were repainted when they joined up with US ships on American orders. (Presumably the USN supplied the paint for this as the RAN ships had only small touch up pots of the colours they left their home port in) << Again, fascinating stuff. >> * Instructions were issued to one cruiser to repaint per the cardboard model and watercolour sent to her. Colours Dark Blue grey hull & upperworks, deck dark grey or black & masts light blue grey. << Any idea which cruiser this was? Thanks, Michael, for sharing the fruits of your research. John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises The Paint Guys http://www.shipcamouflage.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Nuno Andresen Portela" Subject: Charles de Gaulle: even more Hello fellow modellers, Perhaps many of you already know but for those with interest in the Aircraft Carrier Charles de Gaulle, check the last issue of "Bateux Modele" - Hors Serie, nš 3. It costs 39FF (aprox. USD 7.00). You will find inside a 25 page article about the ship, with giant size aerial color shots, detail shots and a large scale scrathbuilt model. Also inside there is an advert from the publishers of 1/200 scale plans for sale. This magazine is printed in high quality gloss paper, and for what you get it is a very good value for money. Also inside there is an advert of 1/200 scale plans for sale. As this magazine is also aimed for the RC model buidel, you will find stuff about eletronics home machined tools and even an article on a home machined scale steam engine (that works). Check http://www.bateau-modele.com , mais si vous ne parle pas le Francais... anyway a sharp shot is worth a thousand words! Wish you all a Happy New Century Nuno Andresen Portela Portugal -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: SteveWiper@aol.com Subject: Re: portholes >> I have Hoyt's book, "Blue Skies and Blood", on the battle of the Coral Sea. In his book, he says that pieces of metal were welded over the portholes. This was done, so people could not inadvertantly violate blackout orders at night. << Actually, this was one of the lessons learned from the Pearl Harbor attack. The portholes had plates welded over them to keep out the water. California might not have sunk, had it not been for the water leaking in from various portholes. The blackout reason is a secondary reason/benifit. With those ships who retained some open portholes for ventilation, the glass was simply painted over. Steve Wiper -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Erwin Van Deynze Subject: Re: 6 months in the UK >> I would like at least to visit some museums, shops and places related to warships. So if you guys have any suggestion to me such as for the London Area??? << You lucky bastard... 6 months in museum paradise... Well, I can only speak for the London area, haven't been able to visit anything else on my (too few) trips across the Channel. First off all, near Tower Bridge, across the Tower is HMS Belfast, no introduction needed... Not far from her, and a combined ticket is available, is the Imperial War Museum, who has also a nice collection on naval matters. Haven't been there myself, is on my to-do list. BTW on the entrance of HMS Belfast is a nice shop with good books, lousy souvenirs, and fine videos, just look out for 'The Cruel Sea' on video. I saw it, didn't bought it and I'm still kicking my ass for not doing so... Off course you have the National Maritime Museum (NMM) in Greenwich. Easy to get there, you can take the ferries who sail up and down the Thames, giving you a good view of the banks. I don't know if they sail during the winter. Another option is to take the Light Docklands Railway, this gives you a fine view on Canary Wharf and all its modern buildings. On the endstation you just go down for the tunnel across the Thames, it is a pedestrians tunnel, probably from the Victorian period, from the looks of it, I just loved it... When coming to the surface again, the first thing you see is the Cutty Sark, more than a visit worth, again tickets are combined with the NMM, the NMM itself is only a short stroll away, on the passage to it used to be a nice ship modelling shop, but it closed in recent years, so I've read on this list. Another notable museum is the Science Museum. It has a wonderful collection of ship models. Be warned though, if you want to see the rest of the museum than you better take a day of two off, they have a huge collection. Modelling Shops in London are rather scarse I'm afraid, there's Hannants not far from the RAF Museum, but they mainly stock mainstream (ie planes & armour) kits and associated items. For books I would suggest Motor Books or Foyle's. BTW This neighboorhood is stacked with new and second-hand bookshops. If you have any transport then a visit to the FAA museum model show (feb 17th, Yeovilton) is a nice tip. WEM will be there for sure, so shopping can't be much of a problem. BTW I guess Caroline can give you plenty of other tips, so why not get them firsthand. Erwin Deadly jealous! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Sean Pritchard" Subject: Help! Happy new year fellow Smellies, Can any of the UK list members help-some months ago Discovery channel broadcast "Firepower 2000-Modern Warships" Which I duly taped,twice. I've somehow managed to erase both copies and am now stuck, as I know there are some shots on the programme I need to finish a project. If anyone out there can help please e-mail me off list-I'll happily pay postage and can return the tape pretty quickly. I'm not certain about the title, other than the Firepower 2000 bit,and I know they did a couple of others on AFV's and aircraft, but it is the ship edition I need. Also it'll have to be UK sourced due to the different broadcast system the US and a lot of others use. Thanks in anticipation. Regards Sean -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "Chris Drage" Subject: Portuguese invasion...... HI Filipe, >> So if you guys have any suggestion to me such as for the London Area??? It also would be nice to met with some SMMlies in the UK. Is there any meeting programmed? << The next meeting of SMMLies will be next month down in Yeovilton at the F.F.A. Museum. Kill two birds with one stone! Visit one of the best naval museums and meet all the SMMLies who congregate on the WEM stand. I haven't the exact date but its towards the middle of the month. Regards Chris He tao rakau e taea te karo kupu kaore e taea te karo (Te reo Maori) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "denis keegan" Subject: submarine book I don't have any books to recommend but the following Web Sites should be good places to start; Royal Navy Submarine Museum www.rnsubmuseum.co.uk Britsub www.charabanc.demon.co.uk British Royal Navy History www.ships.co.uk Naval Technology www.naval-technology.com Royal Navy www.royal-navy.mod.uk If this a duplication of everyone's Favourites List, please accept my appologies for wasting space on the List Vanwell Publishing in St Catharines Ontario Canada probably have the best selection of Naval Literature including a Very recent publication on the RCN Submarine Service--Sorry, I cant remember the name E mail them at simon.kooter@vanwell.com Denis K -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "Graham Walker" Subject: Re: G/ Averoff Yes there is such a kit in resin I fondeled it at Scalemodel world 2000, last year and it was one hell of a kit:) Below for us 1/700 modellers is a quote from Yiannis Sagiadinos who made the 1/350 kit. "I started working on the model of Averoff in 1/700 as i told you." Don`t life get better:) best wishes Graham.(who has now had his fix of 4 smmls in one night:) I was starting to shake a little with out smml every night) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Ives100@aol.com Subject: Re: Virginia class SSN >> Rumor has it that it doesn't even have a periscope (in the usual sense) - just a TV camera on a pole. << No, it's a lot more sophisticated than that. It is a very high resolution CCD system that also works in low light. The idea is not to have as many hull penetrations, so having a system like this means you don't have to have a rather large hole in the pressure hull with a sliding tube, and the glands & packing to keep it from leaking. I have to agree with you "Seawolf lite", though. It will carry less weapons, run slower and dive shallower than a Seawolf class. And in line with most things military these days, it has a multitiude of interchangeable roles and "modules", to perform a multitude of missions.... Tom Dougherty -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Doug Wilde" Subject: Going to UK...to see the sights Fhilipe, Portsmith. A nice day trip outside London by train. I think you'd need about...oh...I'd say two weeks to see all that they had there. Right outside the train station (literally on the water's edge) is the wonderfully restored Warrior, Britain's ironclad. They have so many artifacts at Portsmith they have to leave them outside the building. I was wandering around and came across a medium-size two-blade (if memory serves) propeller. The little plaque identified it as the one used to demonstrate screw propeller superiority over the paddlewheel. The Brits had two sister ships built in 1843, one with paddlewheels (Alecto) and the other this screw propeller (Rattler). To quote "The Engine Powered Vessel"..."The two vessels were secured stern to stern and Rattler towed Alecto astern at 2.8 knots." From this artifact flows all our screw-powered ships. I'd also visit Turbinia. Although a bit modified from her dash at Queen Victoria's Diamond Jubilee at Spithead on June 26th, 1897, she resides at the Discovery Museum, Blandford Square, Newcastle upon Tyne. I have no idea where NuT is in relation to London, but this small boat is incredibly important. And why we don't have a nice 1/72 scale model of it I'll never know. But I have the offsets for her and as soon as I finish with Wolverine and Sable I'll draw her up. You lucky dog. Have fun and wear comfortable shoes. Doug (stuck in NW Arkansas) Wilde -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "Mike Leonard" Subject: Silent Service A bit of a late mention, but the History Channel in the US is running a series all this week (Monday-Friday 9 PM to 10 PM EST) called "The Silent Service" about the USN submarine force in WW2. Mike -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "M & R Brown" Subject: Re: Modern RN Colours Re Fernando's request, The colours vary depending upon the year. Basically from 1960, they are/were: COLOURS WEATHERWORKS & HULLS 1961 Light Admiralty Grey BS381C Number 697. 1966/9 > Light Weatherwork Grey BS381C Number 676 ALL DECKS EXCLUDING FLIGHT DECKS 1961 BS 4800 colour 14C39. This shade of green does not have a name. 1978/81 Dark Admiralty Grey BS381C Number 632 (usual colour) or Dark Sea Grey BS381C Number 638 199? > Dark Admiralty Grey BS381C Number 632 or Charcoal This is the same deck paint as the US Navy. Per Randy Short, this could be either FS36076 or FS26008 FLIGHT DECKS 1960 > Dark Admiralty Grey BS381C Number 632 199? > see above ANTI-FOULING 1947>1993 Red Oxide BS381C Number 446 The latest self-polishing anti-fouling comes in different colours. Several layers are applied to a ship and as a layer wears off, a new colour shade appears. They know when to repaint by the colour showing. Basically just pick a car primer paint in light Red Oxide colour and you wont be too far wrong! WHERE DO YOU GET IT! Dark Admiralty Grey is Humbrol Gloss #5 FS36076 is ModelMaster/Testors Engine Grey FS26008, Testors/ModelMaster has an armour colour called RAL7021 that works for this. The other colours are available from a model paint company in Australia called TLB Paints. They are gloss enamel and come in glass bottles starting at 15ml, up to plastic ones of 200mls. Contact Tracey Baker on bakerss@ozdocs.net.au By the way, Humbrol #88 Deck Green is not RN Deck Green. Chris Rogers posted some info on how to mix up some of the colours using Humbrol Paints some time ago. Hope this helps. The info comes via the Department of Defence in the U.K. Michael Brown Task Force 72 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "John Sutherland" Subject: Hasegawa's Tenryu and Tatsuta The model of the Tatsuta approximates the configuration between 1936 and 1941 during which both were mainly in 3rd level reserve pending rebuilding as AA cruisers - which never happened. However, the model is missing the two single 7.7mm machine gun mounts which should be mounted where the foremost twin 25mm is on the Tenryu model. The very roughly Tenryu reflects the refit in February 1942 both ships had (to fit the second, rear, pair of 25mm twins). However, it is doubtful that the 8cm gun aft should be present (Jentschura states it was removed when ship recommissioned in 1941 and the first twin 25mm guns replaced the 7.7mm). It is also doubtful that she had depthcharge chutes mounted over the mine rails. It is more likely the mine rails were removed, the chutes added plus two depthcharge racks with twin throwers mid quarterdeck. These cruisers were used as destroyer leaders. In 1943 Tatsuta alone (Tenryu was sunk Dec 42) had a fifth twin 25mm mounted where the 8cm is on the Tenryu model, plus a type 22 radar replacing the searchlight on top of the bridge and a type 13 radar on the mainmast. Both models seem reasonably accurate in outline but the small parts are moulded terribly and wholesale replacement by parts from Skywave kit E-2 (including main guns) is recommended - it will really spruce up the model. Regards John Sutherland Wellington, New Zealand -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "Bob Pearson" Subject: Flower Class Gunshield Artwork Greetings all, I am working on a series (very much long term) of illustrations of the various Flower Class corvettes. To this end I am wondering if there is a collection of the artwork worn by the RCN corvettes on their gunshields. In his book Canada's Flowers, Thomas Lynch mentions that there would be a forthcoming volume of such, however I have never heard of it since. Regarding photos, the RCN corvettes seem well covered in various volumes. Are there similiar collections of RN and those used by any other navies? Regards, Bob Pearson Managing Editor / Internet Modeler http://www.internetmodeler.com Hi Bob, RT (IPMS Canada) did an ongoing series on the RCN Flowers. Check out the shiplist on the APMA site (URL at the bottom of SMML) for more info. Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: SteveWiper@aol.com Subject: New Books Coming Classic Warships I am currently working on three new titles, and hope to print two, maybe three, by April/May, this year. The titles are as follows; Warship Pictorial #11 - Lexington Class Carriers Warship Pictorial #12 - Benson/Gleaves Class Destroyers Warship Pictorial #13 - IJN Kongo Class Battleships The Lexington class book, a photo album, has been completely laid out, and I am in the process of writing the captions for the 112 photos in that book. The Benson/Gleaves is turning into a real monster. I have attained over 250 photos of the Bensons alone, which comprise 1/3 of the entire number of destroyers in this split class of ships. This one will take some work to whittle it done to a 64 page book! This is also a photo album. The Kongo class book will have numerous plan and profile drawings of the four ships of this class among the 94+ photos. There is a chance this book will go to 72 pages, if I can get a large number of the photos taken after W.W.II of the Haruna. The drawings are great. They will show most of the refits over the years of each ship in the class. I have laid out 90% of the photos and am about 1/3 finished with the drawings. Next on the list is more battleships, cruisers, and destroyers. Steve Wiper Classic Warships Publishing -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://www.smml.org.uk Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://www.tac.com.au/~sljenkins/apma.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume