Subject: SMML VOL 1126 Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 02:20:59 -0800 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Books: Modelli Navali and Historische Schiffsmodelle 2: NNT 3: Americans as Educated (and Tiddly as the mark of erudition) 4: shiprelated aircraft questions 5: wooden-walled ship modeling questions 6: "TIDDLY" 7: It's been reprinted 8: Re: Swift 1805 hull question 9: Re: Marsh's British Destroyers book 10: Left side? 11: Re: IJN Kaga Flight Deck Accessories 12: Tall stories 13: Re: USN Ops in the Philippines 14: Montreal Canadiens, eah? 15: Re: Photo Etch 16: Nautical Terms 17: Re: swift Hull 18: Swift 1805 hull question 19: Recovery of the USS Cole 20: NEW BOOK ON THE BATTLE OF THE RIVER PLATE. 1939 21: Re: Chinese/Soviet DDs -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Re: Steichen Photographs 2: Rereleases 1/400 scale ships, Bon Homme Richard/ Lexington -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Friedrich Kappes Subject: Books: Modelli Navali and Historische Schiffsmodelle Some ship drawings I have in Orazio Curti´s Modelli Navali and Wolfram zu Mondfeld´s Historische Schiffsmodelle, I can´t identify. Any ideas? - 120 gun ships, launched between 1760-1810, 3 galeries: names and figureheads please. - were Marlborough and Wellington sisterships? What were there figureheads? - 106 gun ports, figurehead: rider on a horse, 3 galeries - 92 guns, female? angel, 3 galeries - 70 guns, crowned animal, 2 galeries Or were they just illustrations by the author, not based on historic ships? Friedrich The FriedrichFiles http://sites.netscape.net/friedkappes -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Donald Bridge Subject: NNT Hi Ned Sorry but NNT is in Germany not Poland. I think the Polish firm with the 45 Dollar Grosser Kurfurst was Pelta. Don Bridge -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Ned Barnett Subject: Americans as Educated (and Tiddly as the mark of erudition) >> Oh Ned, Ned... it's been SO difficult convincing my Brit fiancée, family-to-be, and friends that we Yanks are an educated lot, and then you go and, well.... ;^) << Admittedly a bit off-topic, but John apparently feels that understanding "Tiddly" in a kit review is the mark of erudition ... my failure to appreciate that literate, technical term apparently has set his effort to elevate the image of Americans in the eyes of his new family back at least two centuries - John, I'm sorry ... () -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Friedrich Kappes Subject: shiprelated aircraft questions This time I ask about aircraft, that served aboard ships in the early stages of aviation. If somebody can help... CAMS 55: line drawing, armament (aboard Commandant Teste) CAMS 371: line drawing, armament (aboard Commandant Teste) Levasseur PL 14: line drawing, armament (aboard Commandant Teste) Macchi M.9: used aboard ships? Short 38: line drawing - 74: entry into service, line drawing, armament (p.e. aboard Ark Royal) - 135: entry into service, line drawing, armament (p.e. aboard Ark Royal) - Folder: line drawing, armament (p.e. aboard Hermes of 1913) Sopwith 807: line drawing, armament (p.e. aboard Ark Royal) Wright Pusher: line drawing, armament (p.e. aboard Ark Royal) Thank you in advance Friedrich The FriedrichFiles http://sites.netscape.net/friedkappes -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Douglas Simpkin Subject: wooden-walled ship modeling questions Edward Sumerfield wrote: >> Subject: Swift 1805 hull question I have the hull strakes in place with pins and glue. Now I am trying to >overlay that with the darker thinner wood but, because of the pin heads, the strips don't lay flat on the strakes. Is there something I could do to make this fit better. << Not to suppress the free interchange of information, I suggest you subscribe to the seaways-shipmodeling-list at: http://www.egroups.com/group/SeawaysShipmodelingList to get your wooden-walled ship modeling questions answered. Typically I find SMMLies to be steel-hulled folks. Doug Hi Doug, Right you are, but questions of that manner will never be turned away ;-) Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: tom dean Subject: "TIDDLY" Hi Gang: Just to add a bit to what Ian said about the word Tiddly. As he said it was a word adopted in the Royal Navies from the "Andrew". It was one of those words used as a noun, verb, adjective etc. It indeed meant attractive and pretty. You often considered your girl "Tiddly". After a few drinks, she often became "Tiddlier". If you drank enough, even the "Midnight Marys" on Barrington St looked "Bloody Tiddly"! You "Tiddlied Up" your locker or mess deck for Capts. rounds. The Buffer insisted on the upper decks being "Tiddly" at all times. In the days when the RCN wore uniforms similar to the RN, the dress of the day would be piped over the ships speakers in numbers as duties changed over the course of the day. For example Dress of the Day was normally number 5's (work dress). Dress uniforms for ceremonial occassions or stepping out were your #1's. Same as #2 or #3's (everyday uniform for going ashore, leaving harbour etc.) but with fancy gold badges instead of red ones. Long timers usually had a set of #1's tailor made, often in England, for special occassions. They usually bent the rules a bit on what was regulation, being skin tight, bell bottoms a bit bigger around, tapes for tying the scarf a bit longer etc. These were your "Tiddlies" If you owned them, they were a sailors pride and joy and well guarded. You will notice I slipped the word "Buffer" in there. Have fun with that one. Tom Dean Hamilton, Ontario Canada -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: Ned Barnett Subject: It's been reprinted Submarines of World War Two by Erminio Bagnasco is now published in English in a trade paperback version and is in print. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: ALROSS2@aol.com Subject: Re: Swift 1805 hull question >> I have the hull strakes in place with pins and glue. Now I am trying to overlay that with the darker thinner wood but, because of the pin heads, the strips don't lay flat on the strakes. Is there something I could do to make this fit better. I have filed some of the heads down but I am concerned that if I file to much the strakes may pop off the pins. << I missed what led up to this, so I apologize if my comments are duplicative. I'm not sure why metal pins were used, as they will obviously prevent the outer layer of planks from laying directly on the inner planks. The pins will either have to have their heads removed completely or be pulled as a unit if a flush fit is to be had. Leaving a gap between the layers of planking will cause all sorts of problems with the hull, especially when completed. Usually, folks who plank models use treenails (or trunnels) to peg the planks to the bulkheads. For anyone unfamiliar with this term, a treenail (trunnel) is simply a wooden peg (usually tapered on the full size ship) which is driven into a hole bored in the plank and the supporting frame, then trimmed flush with the outer face of the plank. Depending on the scale, wooden ship modelers typically use dowels, round toothpicks, or bamboo skewers which are dipped in glue, driven into predrilled holes, and trimmed/sanded flush when dry. There are a number of books on planking available. Go to the Nautical Research Guild site (http://www.naut-res-guild.org) and see what they list. Al Ross -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: Richa5011@aol.com Subject: Re: Marsh's British Destroyers book >> I ought perhaps to have said 'tender' instead of 'crank'." In either case, I have no idea what he said. Any takers? << The term tender in fact describes the ships tendency to roll, specifcally, "She rolls too easily". Crank means that the vessel does not steer (turn) well, or in some cases has a problem holding a straight course. Both terms date back to the age of sail. Nat Richards -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Björn Bäcklundx1bmQ= Subject: Left side? Tell me: If you're driving on the left side in Australia, are you driving on the right side? Björn Bäcklund Hi Bjorn Yup, you betcha - the only side to drive ;-) Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Fernando, Yohan" Subject: Re: IJN Kaga Flight Deck Accessories I think I know of the piece of footage you are referring to and I think that the structure on the flight deck is the crash barrier for landing aircraft in the raised position. A simple description of the barrier is it being comprised of 2 veritical pillars with a cross-beam stretching across the width of the flight deck. A heavy net-like barrier is hung from this frame (kind of like a giant flat football (soccer) goal). The frame is set flush into the flight deck and can be raised in the verticle postion when needed. That's my guess at least... Yohan Fernando -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) Reply-To: "D.Przezdziecki" Subject: Tall stories Checking for painting references for Chin Yuan I have come across the stories how the demoralised Chinese crew treated their ships before the Chinese-Japanese war. It appears that main guns were never cleaned,and that some of the ships supplies were kept stored in their barrels. It was also alleged that some of the main calibre ammunition was sold off to suplement the captain pay!!! Who in a name of Godess would want to buy 305mm shell?? You naval types out there -did you hear any good stories of this sort during your career? Regards D.P. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: James Corley Subject: Re: USN Ops in the Philippines John Snyder wrote - >> For information on early war operations in the Philippines: Winslow, W.G. "The Fleet the Gods Forgot: The U.S. Asiatic Fleet in World War II." Annapolis: USNI Press, 1982. Out of print, but worth finding. << I seem to remember seeing this advertised recently in a USNI flyer. This would indicate the book is back in print. check it out before you pay big $$ from an overpriced vendor. JZ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: MDDoremus@aol.com Subject: Montreal Canadiens, eah? Now dat's a uniquely Canadian idea, eah, baseball on ice skates, eah? 8^) I assume you really meant the Montreal Expos. Now about this running water thing, is that only during the summer or what? LOL Mark Doremus Eden Prairie, MN (a southern suburb of Canada) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "megden" Subject: Re: Photo Etch To all those who have responded to my request for information on these items,my DEEPEST thanks. My computer has been down since about 30 seconds after I sent that posting and I apologise for the delay in responding. (I got back on line about 2 hours ago) Having read the many responses and the direct e-mails I now know that I can get written advice to help me properly use this wonderful medium. Most of you confirmed my initial impressions, formed when I had the good fortune to watch David Parkins assemble a 120mm Vickers Machine Gun while he was visiting me in Canada in 1998 for World Model Expo; these items CAN be assembled with care and some very basic tools. Having watched David assemble that M/G in just 3 hours and making such a beautiful job of it, I was encouraged to make my first stumbling attempts. During these last few "Computerless" days I have spent some time, with Davids encouragement by phone, in starting some of his excellent detail sets and small vehicles. No, they (my results) are not perfect, but I have learned to enjoy the range and variety of products he makes and expect to become sufficiently familiar with this medium to enjoy modeling in a wholly different way. If a 60 year Old Fart like me can make something in this way, I would expect you young guys to be absolutely marvelous at it. Thanks again for all your advice and assistance Denis K -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "Mike Leonard" Subject: Nautical Terms John stated - >> Marsh quotes the captain ". . .and I submit the it would appear that the ship is extremely crank." << My dictionary identified CRANK as a nautical term meaning "liable to capsize; unstable" and TENDER as "likely to heel easily under sail". MWL -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: Bradford Chaucer Subject: Re: swift Hull >> I have the hull strakes in place with pins and glue. Now I am trying to overlay that with the darker thinner wood but, because of the pin heads, the strips don't lay flat on the strakes. Is there something I could do to make this fit better. I have filed some of the heads down but I am concerned that if I file to much the strakes may pop off the pins. << I hope Shane won't think I'm poaching members, but you really ought to sign up on Clay Feldman's SMF List :-) See below for info. Delivered-To: mailing list ShipModelers-Forum@egroups.com List-Unsubscribe: From: ShipModelers-Forum@egroups.com Reply-To: ShipModelers-Forum@egroups.com Just change "UNsubscribe to Subscribe in the above address, or sign on directly from the Egroups list. SMF is the Premier stick and string modeler's forum. BTW, why did you leave pins in the planks if you were going to double plank?? Pins are only used to clamp the planks till the glue dries. In that era hulls weren't fastened with metal nails; Trenails (wood pegs) were use. and would be nearly invisible in small scales. Most modelers use either super-glue or carpenter's glue to secure the planks. The planks are pre-formed and bent, so there isn't really much stress on the glue joint. Regards, Bradford Chaucer Hi Bradford, Where's my shotgun when I need it ;-) Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: "Doug Wilde" Subject: Swift 1805 hull question Ed, What are your scantlings? What is the siding on the frames? Plank thickness and width? Thickness of second layer of planking? If you have effected a good glue joint you likely can remove pins except for the hood ends of the planks. The second layer of planking basically will form a lamination that tends to hold its shape and everything together. For future reference you may want to countersink your heads and/or use plastic or nylon pins,or honest to god trunnels. I build wood boats, but strictly 1:1 scale. Doug Wilde -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: "JAmes McCormick" Subject: Recovery of the USS Cole http://pulido2000.com/USS-Cole/index.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: "NICK & JOY ROGERS" Subject: NEW BOOK ON THE BATTLE OF THE RIVER PLATE. 1939 Best Wishes for 2001 to you all on the SMML, www.amazon.co.uk list the following new book on the pocket battleship Admiral Graf Spee's last battle. This book was published in October 2000.It is called "The Price of Disobedience". Written by Eric J. Grove.188 pages. The synopsis is as follows, This work is a major re-examination of the Battle of the River Plate in 1939, bringing in the German perspective that has hitherto been largely ignored by historians and film. The author draws on German and British records uncovering fresh evidence and providing new insights. Price given as 15.99 pounds (sterling) QUESTION:- has anyone read this book yet and can offer a brief review ?? I have very much enjoyed my copy of Eric Grove's "Vanguard to Trident"- British Naval Policy since WWII. (1987) Mainly for the few delicious snippets of the twilight of the Royal Navy's last battleships.So my guess is that Mr. Grove will have done a good job. Regards, Nick Rogers, New Zealand -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: "Steve Sobieralski" Subject: Re: Chinese/Soviet DDs Mike Leonnard wrote: >> Apparently Lee Models makes a 1/300 kit (see www.gofigures.com) that's listed as the Chinese guided missile destroyer FUSHUN, but the photo doesn't show any obvious missiles; it looks very much like the other WW2 Russian GORDI-class DDs. Don't know how it compares to the Trumpeter kit aside from being smaller, but the other Lee ship models I've seen are quite nice. << Trumpeter also sells the 1/200 Soviet Destroyer as the Chinese "Anshan" with the missile launchers in place of the torpedo tubes. The missle launchers are quite obvious, being large inclined Soviet-style cannisters. Steve Sobieralski -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: SteveWiper@aol.com Subject: Re: Steichen Photographs There are large amounts of the Steichen photos in the US Nat. Archives, in Washington DC, and at the US Naval Historical Center @ the Washington Navy Yard. I have seen a few of them each time I visit one of those places a couple times a year. There are also lots of other great photos, many of which I use in my books. So if anyone wants a cheap thrill, buy one of my books, and find anywhere from 50 to 100+ great photos of USN warships during W.W.II. There only $12 each! Thanks, Steve Wiper www.classicwarships.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Shaya Novak" Subject: Rereleases 1/400 scale ships, Bon Homme Richard/ Lexington Back in stock: Heller -------------- Scharnhorst and Richilieu Model Russia ------- Aroura and Potemkin We have the Revell Angled Deck Lexington plus decals to turn it into the the "Bonne" ---- Ship & Decals 25.95 Shaya Novak Naval Base Hobbies The Store for The Model Ship Builder www.modelshipbuilding.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://www.smml.org.uk Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://www.tac.com.au/~sljenkins/apma.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume