Subject: SMML VOL 1129 Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2001 22:25:38 -0800 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Atlantis 2: ESSEX Camo 3: Re: Anyone seen these new books? 4: Re: Various 5: Sea Classics 6: Re: Atlantis model 7: Message to Guisto Gallas 8: Re: Battle of the Yalu 9: SS John W.Brown 10: Duane Fowler? 11: HMCS NABOB 12: LST gun 13: Essex 14: Re: Edsall Class Model 15: Re: Skywave LST -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Model Ship Journal Away From Office -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Tom Eisenhour" Subject: Atlantis "Duckman" was looking for a kit of the German commerce raider Atlantis. Yes, Aurora made one and you can read a kit review on Rajendra's (et al.) list of ship kits at: http://www.quuxuum.org/rajens_list/shiprevs.html#AuroraAtlantis Warning! IF you can find one be prepared to pay a hefty sum of money for it. It's considered highly desirable by kit collectors. Good luck, Tom -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "O'Connor" Subject: ESSEX Camo Puckhead I have copies of approved ESSEX camo schemes from the book ESSEX CLASS CARRIERS. Contact me offline and I'll copy and send them to you. Suffice it to say, MS 32/17-A, first and second designs: MS -33/10A, as well as others for the original short hulled ships are available. Are you looking for ESSEX specifically, or any of the sisters in the early schemes? congratulations on deciding to build a model of arguably the most durable and versatile carrier design in the history of Naval aviation ships. God bless the ESSEX class (i'm only a little bit taken with them!!). Bob O'Connor -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "WEM" Subject: Re: Anyone seen these new books? Hi Art, >> Warship 2000-2001 << Not yet out as far as I am aware.. >> British Warships of World War II by John Roberts << Date put back to May by Chatham. >> Churchill's Anchor by Broadhurst (a biography of Admiral Sir Dudley Pound, and the first one ever, as far as I know). << Can't help you here.. sorry! Caroline Carter White Ensign Models, Tel : 0870 757 2330 Fax: 0870 757 2331 Home Page for WEM http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: John Snyder Subject: Re: Various From: "Joao Andrade Guerra" Subject: Help with Skywave LST-2 kit >> I need some help with the Skywave LST-2 kit (1:700 scale). There is a large bandstand (larger than the others) at the stern for a stern gun. Unfortunately the gun which is provided with the kit is just a plastic blob. I want to use a gun from the Skywave detail set for the USN but which gun should it be? A 5"/38, a 3" perhaps? Can anyone help? << I think (emphasis on "think") that it is supposed to represent a single 40mm Bofors mount. These vessels also carried 40mm twin Bofors in this location and at the bow. From: Puckhead93@aol.com Subject: U.S.S. Essex >> hey everybody, I just ordered the u.s.s. essex and I was wondering paint schemes about 1942. I havent had much time to do any looking yet but any info would be helpful. Thanks << Well, ESSEX is the only ship of the class that you can depict in 1942: she commissioned on December 31, 1942; the rest of the class commissioned in 1943 and later. At the time of her commissioning, ESSEX wore Measure 21, Navy Blue 5-N on all vertical surfaces, Deck Blue 20-B on all horizontal surfaces, and Flight Deck Stain 21 (revised) on the flight deck. From: Craig R Bennett Subject: SS John W.Brown >> Does any one know how the SS John W.Brown a liberty ship was operated as a high school in the New York City public school system. I do know it was part of program for training high school students interested in the Merchant Marine as a career. Did they convert the actual ship to a school or keep it as a freighter for training ship duties with a short cruise to test students. I do know it was operated by the NYC school system from 1946 to 1984. Any one know? << Since the JOHN W. BROWN still exists as a museum ship, I suggest you contact the museum. They should have that information. Their URL is: http://www.liberty-ship.com/ Follow the links there on the home page and you'll find there is an alumni association of those who taught and attended the BROWN when she was a high school. They should have the info you seek. From: SteveWiper@aol.com Subject: Re: shotguns >> Very few of us Americans are "Game Keepers", thats what shotguns are for. A lot of us have pick up trucks to haul all kinds of stuff, kin folk, and what not, but we mostly haul ass! Yee Haa! Missy grab the youngen's, we's go'in fur a "Road Kill Picanic" << Yeah, lemme tell you about driving across the Southwest in Wiper's pickup... He has an old Bofors crosshair gunsight in the middle of the hood (bonnet, for my UK colleagues and family) so's he can aim at them there cows, pigs, chickens, duck, armadillos, and skunks.... Boy, we et good on that trip! From: "leigh crutchley" Subject: HMAS Sydney Colours >> Anyone have ideas on the humbrol colours for the WW II HMAS Sydney. The pictures I have seen show two patterns, one is a straight light grey while the other appears to be a mix of light and dark grey. << The straight light grey was the prewar Mediterranean grey, AP507C. According to Alan Raven in his first volume on RN camo, the two-colour scheme was one of the unofficial "Alexandria" schemes and consisted of light grey (which would have been AP507C) and medium grey. The latter was probably mixed by ship's company, and probably approximated AP507B. The good Professor Raven may chime in with clarification. As for the Humbrol mixes, I'll leave that to others, except to say that these colours will be among the WEM/S&S line of paints due out soon. John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises http://www.shipcamouflage.com White Ensign Models http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Lawman555@aol.com Subject: Sea Classics I was wondering if anyone reading this might have a copy of the magazine titled "Sea Classics". I was trying to find a copy of an article on Submarine Chasers that was listed on the title of the February 1999 issue. I contacted the publisher but that issue is not available. I would like to see exactly what the article contains before I shell out the bucks to have a Zerox copy of it. If anyone has it, please contact me. Thanks ahead of time Jim Myers USS SC1012 http://members.aol.com/lawman555/subchaser.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Russell Smith" Subject: Re: Atlantis model Check out the Steelnavy site. Formerly the warship site. Scroll down and click on NNT MODELLS only the German site works but click on it and then on ships in german. Then, click on 1/700 then, on the HP folder. Next click on Deutchland and scroll down. HP models list a number of the Merchant raiders including the Atlantis in 1941. It sells for about $42.00 US. I haven't bought one of their models yet so, I can't comment on their quality but, I've read some decent reveiws on the quality of their pourings on this site. I still wish I had kept my models from the 60's. To think what some of that stuff is worth now! Anybody know a good way to kick yourself? Russ Smith -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: TechnoInfidel@webtv.net (John Collins) Subject: Message to Guisto Gallas Guisto: My recent mail to you has been returned. Please contact me at your convenience. Thanks, John Collins Atlanta, GA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "Paul Jacobs" Subject: Re: Battle of the Yalu >> It all culminated in the Battle of the Yalu. Despite heroic acts and attempts to beat the Japanese, the lack of explosive shell caused Chinese to lose the battle. Actually, the battle itself was a draw, both sides retired, it wasn't until the Japanese torpedo boats got into the harbour the Chinese ships were using was the Ting Yuen sunk and the Chen Yuen taken. << The Battle of the Yalu was by no means a draw. In fact, it brought the defeat of the Chinese fleet, and loss of control of the sea to Japan. In the battle, although unable to sink either of the two Chinese battleships, the Japanese did a great deal of damage to them, sank four Chinese cruisers and a gunboat, (thus destroying 5 out of 12 ships in the Chinese squadron) and damaged all of the remaining Chinese ships to varying degrees. One of the remaining cruisers (Lai Yuen) was so badly damaged that she was never again effective. The Chinese fleet retreated to Port Arthur where repairs were made, then when it became clear that the port would soon fall to the Japanese, to Wei Hai Wei, where the Japanese fleet then blockaded them. The Japanese squadron, (also 12 ships) suffered serious damage to several ships, but the remainder were back in action very shortly, and the Japanese Navy thereafter completely controlled the Yellow Sea and the sea lanes between Japan and China. The Japanese blockaded the Chinese fleet, and so Japanese transports moved unimpeded thereafter. As a result the Japanese were able to convoy troops and supplies without loss, and eventually besieged Wei Hai Wei from both the land and sea. Trapped there, the remainder of the Chinese fleet was destroyed by artillery fire, torpedo boat attacks, or else scuttled. Paul Jacobs -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: cfrieden@calpoly.edu Subject: SS John W.Brown >> Does any one know how the SS John W.Brown a liberty ship was operated as a high school in the New York City public school system. I do know it was part of program for training high school students interested in the Merchant Marine as a career. Did they convert the actual ship to a school or keep it as a freighter for training ship duties with a short cruise to test students. I do know it was operated by the NYC school system from 1946 to 1984. Any one know? << Craig, As far as I can tell from the references I have on hand very little was done to convert the John Brown. Students would spend half of the school day ashore learning in conventional classrooms, and the other half would be spent aboard learning by hands-on training. Students operated the engine and cargo gear, but as far as I can tell the ship was operated in place at the pier. In 1982 the John Brown was replaced by a shoreside training facility. Hope this helps, Chris Friedenbach -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: JVT7532@aol.com Subject: Duane Fowler? Sorry to contact you here Duane but I'm not getting any replies to my email to you, I'm not sure you are getting them. Please contact me off list about the decals we talked about. Sorry list, I apologize for the intrusion. Best regards, Jon -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Chris Preston" Subject: HMCS NABOB A few days ago, Michael London asked for information on the colours worn by the escort carrier HMCS NABOB. I found a web site with information on the five carriers that Canada has operated over the years, at: www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Quarters/2230/index.html This site has photos of all five ships, including NABOB - both port and starboard, as well as before, and after her torpedoing. As far as I can tell, she was painted in a three colour Admiralty Disruptive scheme, which I'd be guessing at, consisted of the following colours: G45 - Light Grey, B6 - Blue, and B5 - Dark Blue-Grey. Hope this helps. Chris Preston, Victoria, B.C. Canada -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "Robert J. Morris" Subject: LST gun The stern gun mount is a 40mm twin. Robert Morris -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Ned Barnett Subject: Essex >> hey everybody, I just ordered the U.S.S. Essex and I was wondering paint schemes about 1942. I haven't had much time to do any looking yet but any info would be helpful. Thanks << Josh - Essex was commissioned on December 31, 1942 - so her colors for 1942 were her commissioning-day scheme - she didn't enter the combat arena until 1943. She was completed in Measure 21, and carried that until her San Francisco refit in April 1944 - at that time, she carried a Measure 32/6-10D scheme. After being hit by a kamikaze in November '44, she was returned to Measure 21 at Ulithi - all this according to The Essex Aircraft Carriers by Andrew Faltum (Nautical & Aviation Publishing, 1996, P. 182). Ned -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: Rick Heinbaugh Subject: Re: Edsall Class Model Ralph Batykefer wrote: >> A relative of mine served on the USS Vance DE387 which was an Edsall Class Destroyer. Does anyone make a model of this class of ship? What scales are there and what are the costs? Who sells them? He wants to build a model of his ship. Thanks ahead of time... << Ralph, One easy answer (with an asterisk) and a better answer. The Edsall Class (FMR group of Destroyer Escorts) was extrnally identical to the Cannon Class (DET type). The FMR and DET reference describe the propulsion arrangements - both diesel powered - different engines and gearing arrangements. In 1/700 scale, Skywave makes a Cannon class, with two in a box for around $25 (US). The kit is nicely detailed, with a major glaring weakness - the upper edge of the hull, instead of curving gracefully from more or less horizontal aft to a steeper sheer forward, is shaped with two lines, with a distinct angle at the transition point amidships. It's really offensive if you know to look there for it. The asterisk is that this kit is in the WWII configuration of the ship. Vance was converted to a Radar Picket ship (DER) in the mid 1950's. If your relative was aboard DER387, the WWII DE version won't look very familiar. The modification was considerable. There is good reference material in Squadron's "Destroyer Escorts in Action", by Al Adcock. It is one of their better ship books. It has good photos and nice drawings of the DER. The old Almark book "American Destroyer Escorts of World War 2" by Peter Elliott goes into much more depth, but was printed in 1974 and now hard to find. The better answer, if you want a kit larger than 1/700 scale, is the Revell Buckley DE kit (Type TE). It is a steam powered ship, with a stack that has trunking to multiple boiler rooms, otherwise identical to the WWII Edsall. You can reshape that stack pretty easily. The Revell kit is ~1/240 scale, ~12" long, and more attractive due to its size. The kit is around forty years old, but not horrible. GMM makes a photo-etch set suitable for it. Conversion to the DER is just as hard as for the 1/700 ship. Now, I want to know, was your relative onboard Vance during the Viet Nam era when the CO was CDR Marcus Arnheiter? A book was written about "The Arnheiter affair" by Neil Sheehan, portraying Vance under Arnheiter as a real-life Caine led bt Capt Queeg, and I've always wondered if there was another side to the story. Good luck, Rick Heinbaugh -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: Rick Heinbaugh Subject: Re: Skywave LST Joao Andrade Guerra wrote: >> I need some help with the Skywave LST-2 kit (1:700 scale). There is a large bandstand (larger than the others) at the stern for a stern gun. Unfortunately the gun which is provided with the kit is just a plastic blob. I want to use a gun from the Skywave detail set for the USN but which gun should it be? A 5"/38, a 3" perhaps? Can anyone help? << This question should get a number of different answers, as various ships of the early LST class (2-541) were armed differently. It appears they were built with either a 5"/38 on that bandstand, or a single 40mm. "Dictionary of Americam Naval Fighting Ships", Vol VII, on page 577, shows an outstanding overhead photo of an early LST. This one looks to me to have six single 20mms around the deck, and a single 40mm on that bandstand. Other photos show a 5"/38 there, and several single 40mms elsewhere. Good luck, Rick Heinbaugh -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Victor M. Baca" Subject: Model Ship Journal Away From Office Whew! The phone and e-mail traffic has been active to say the least lately, so I thought it would be prudent to advise you that we will be away from Sunday the 21st of January until Wednesday A.M. on the 24th. During that time, our assistant Mr. Phone Machine will handle the calls. We'll be underway with a NOAA research ship covering a story for Model Ship Journal and as soon as I get back, will begin replying toe-mails and phone messages ASAP. During our time aboard, I hope to get shots of naval ships around Puget Sound and off the coast; maybe get a few into MSJ in addition to the story we're working on. Until then, take care and thank you all for your support! Victor Baca Editor & Publisher MODEL SHIP JOURNAL -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://www.smml.org.uk Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://www.tac.com.au/~sljenkins/apma.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume