Subject: SMML VOL 1131 Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 00:08:39 -0800 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Scientists To Enter Confederate Sub 2: Atlantis Kit 3: CVAN 65 Enterprise Book 4: Italian navy Photoetch set 5: Gato Class 6: Gato subs 7: Re: Yorktown 8: Re: Gato class 9: Re: USS Phoenix a/c 10: Fiume Colours 11: Re: 1/700 USS Yorktown 12: Pennant number R16 13: WW1 USN naval signal device 14: Re: Dreadnought Color Scheme 15: Flight IIA DDG 16: Steamer & Sub 17: Re: Pennant number R16 18: HMS Black Prince, minesweeper 19: Re: The Search For ATLANTIS 20: Re: 1/700 USS Yorktown CV-5 21: HMAS Vampire & Vendetta - Ozmods 1/700 scale -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: SMML Kit Specials 2: 1/350 scale kirishima japanese battleship 3: Adjusted (hopefully) links for poster and Warship International offer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Matthew Prager Subject: Scientists To Enter Confederate Sub Top Headlines from AP Scientists To Enter Confederate Sub Jan 22 07:33AM 2001 CHARLESTON, S.C. (AP) - More than five months after the Confederate submarine H.L. Hunley was lifted from the bottom of the Atlantic, scientists will begin excavating the inside of the silt-filled sub. They planned to enter the Hunley Monday through a 3-foot hole in the rear starboard quarter of the submarine, said Bob Neyland, manager of the Hunley Project. The Hunley, the first submarine to sink an enemy warship, rammed a black-powder charge at the end of a spar into the Union blockade ship Housatonic off nearby Sullivans Island on Feb. 17, 1864. The Housatonic sank but the hand-cranked Hunley, fashioned from locomotive boilers, also went down with its nine-man crew. The submarine was raised last summer and brought to a conservation laboratory at the old Charleston Navy Base. The sub has been immersed in a tank of cold water while scientists mapped the hull and determined the best way to enter it. Sunday, about 250 people, many of them wearing Confederate uniforms, gathered for a memorial service for the crew. The invitation-only service was for the volunteers who have given tours of the lab and done other volunteer work for the Hunley recovery. The crew's remains are expected to be buried this year in the Hunley plot in Charleston's Magnolia Cemetery, next to members of two other ill-fated crews. The submarine sank twice before the Housatonic attack - once while moored at a dock and once on a training mission. After the excavation, conservation of the hull is expected to take several years. The Hunley will then go on display at the Charleston Museum. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Matthew Prager Subject: Atlantis Kit For those who were interested in a kit of the Searaider Atlantis, there is one available on E-bay: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=546994130 Matt Prager -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Nuno Andresen Portela" Subject: CVAN 65 Enterprise Book Hello everybody, Can anyone make a review about the following book (pictorial content, quality...): USS Enterprise CVAN 65 Commander Naval Air Force Pacific Fleet 1967, by JL Holloway III, published by Boston, MABurdette & Co, first edition 1967 Any coments would be great, as a dealer is asking $242 for this book Thanks in advance. Nuno Andresen Portela Porto, Portugal -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: SAMI ARIM Subject: Italian navy Photoetch set >> The Regia Marina photoetch also look great and will serve to complement the resin kits for the Italian Navy from Regia Marina and Delphis which are generally some of the highest quality resin kits on the market and what's more have a very extensive range. << Personally I found this set as a dissapointment. For the price of 18$ what you get is a medium size stainless steel set, contains mostly railings, ladders, stairs and anchor chains. There are some more details, but there is no cranes, catapults or any radar. There is a void in 1/700 for the Italian navy and this set definitely does not satisfy this void. Regards Sami Arim -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Kurt Van Dahm Subject: Gato Class From: "Christian Griesser" >> And therefore I would like to receive any information about plans, pictures, books, painting, modifikations, uniforms, daily life on those subs, etc... << A very good source of information on Gato's is from Floating Drydock. They have an excellent plan book with photographs, drawings, etc. that is first class as well as plans for building Gato subs. Look them up at http://floatingdrydock.com Take care, Kurt Van Dahm Westmont, IL NRG member -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: Sean and Mary Obrien Subject: Gato subs I sent out this letter to Christian Griesser. Any one else interested could also contact my dad. >> Christian, Check out the book "United States Submarine Operations in World War II" by Theodore Roscoe. Mine is my dad's original 1947 copy. He has a newer reprint. It is a great book( big too) that has wartime photos, maps, drawings, and covers the whole sub story very well. It was written back when things were still fresh in everyone's memory. Another great book is Norman Friedman's "U.S. Submarines Through 1945." Both books are/were printed by the Naval Institute. If you want to talk to a submariner, my dad would be glad to talk to you about his wartime experience. He did 8 war patrols on the Albacore, SS-218, as a young officer. He joined her while she was still "as commissioned" through several refits. He has a few tales to tell. He is CMDR Clement E. O'Brien, USN ret. Contact him at FYTN6@aol.com There was a good 4 part series on the US sub operations in WW II on the History channel that you should try to see. Great wartime films plus interior shots from some of the current fleet sub museam boats. My dad said there were some discrepancies but overall very good. I would check online to see if any of the fleet subs are within travelling distance. It will give a better perspective on what the submariner experienced. << Good luck, Sean O'Brien -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: Craig R Bennett Subject: Re: Yorktown Hi Guys Making the Yorktown CV-5 1942(?) out of the 1944 Enterprise could be diffucult. What you could do is get a Hornet kit as well. Hornet was in 1942 configuration. Because the Enterprise is equipped with 40mm guns and Yorktown never carried these. Starting at the bow you need the 20mm gun platform for two single 20mm guns. Hornet and Yorktown carried as best as I tell carried the same number of 20mm guns. Except that the Yorktown never had them at the stern edge of the flight deck as the Enterprise kit did. Her camouflage was measure 12. With small white numbers "5" near the anchors at the bow and parrallel near the stern. The superstruture had a what looks like a I-beam put the bridge to act as splinter protection. The Enterprise kit superstruture is a 1942 version but on the smokestack both Enterprise and Hornet kits have only platforms for one searchlight per side of the smoke stack. The Yorktown was equiped with 2 searchlights per side of the smoke stack so a larger platform would have to be put in place for them. Her air group consisted of F4F Wildcats, SBD Dauntless's, and TBD Devastators. To get these do you have Saratoga from Fujimi available to you? It has the Wildcats and Dauntless's, but to get Devastators you can try Pit-road/Skywave for a set of 5 for $13.00 and I think that White Ensign may make them as well. Not sure of the cost. Tom's Model works once use to make them but today I don't know. I got their's they look good on my Hornet. Well Henry I hope this is of help to you. Craig -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Ives100@aol.com Subject: Re: Gato class >>I think about to build a model from a GATO-class submarine in scale 1/35. And therefore I would like to receive any information about plans, pictures, books, painting, modifikations, uniforms, daily life on those subs, etc... << Uhhh, you are aware that Gato class boats ran about 311 feet, and a 1/35 scale model will be over 9 feet in length?? There is a guy in the SubCommittee who has such a scale Gato, and this R/C boat has a dive horn, rotating radar, dives, shoots torpedoes, etc, and is worth $8000-10,000. If you want to build something that big, you will be laying out very big $$$, even for a display model. This will be a basicfiberglass hull and require extensive fittings and scribing. You need to have considerable scratchbuilding skills as well. Books, well here we go: for building plans & photos, Floating Drydock's "Gato & Balao Class Fleet Submarine" plans, Alden's "Fleet Submarine in the US Navy", Friedman's "US Submarines through 1945", Walkowiak's "Fleet Submarines of World War II". For patrol coverage & life on the boats during WWII, get the OOP Clay Blair "Silent Victory" (copies frequently on Ebay), Fluckey's "Thunder Below", Calvert's "Silent Running", McCan't's "War Patrols of the Flasher", Mendenhall's "Submarine Diary", O'Kane's "Wahoo" and "Clear the Bridge" and the timeless novel by Edward L. Beach "Run Silent, Run Deep". The last is required reading. Join the SubCommittee; you're gonna need it!!! Tom Dougherty -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: Marc Flake Subject: Re: USS Phoenix a/c I hope there are some good pictures of the Phoenix at Pearl Harbor that show its aircraft because this was a period of change as far as aircraft painting is concerned. In 1940, the Navy decreed that all aircraft be painted light gray overall, except patrol craft. They additionally had all surfaces viewed from above painted blue gray. In the summer of 1941, the Navy further decreed that all aircraft carried on aircraft carriers be painted in the two-tone light gray/blue gray scheme. Finally, in February 1942, the two-tone scheme was applied to ALL USN aircraft. (All this from the Monogram Color guide.) Marc (Hoping there is a photo out there you can use.) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "John Rule" Subject: Fiume Colours >> Can anyone help with the colour scheme that RN Fiume was wearing at the time of her sinking? << From what I understand the camouflage of Fiume is not known. It apparently was an experimental scheme, but only one indistinct photo is known showing the starboard side. The scheme appears to comprise 3 or 4 colours or tones and is disruptive. Other than that it is hard to be definitive. (Source: Orizzonte Mare 5/ii Incrociatore Pesanti classe Zara by Elio Ando) John Rule -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Devin J. Poore" Subject: Re: 1/700 USS Yorktown >> I'm thinking about building USS Yorktown using Tamiya's Enterprise kit. << I have the Tamiya Enterprise that I also intend to convert to Yorktown; plan on doing it at the same time I build the BWN Yorktown kit. I haven't compared a lot yet, but I do know the AA fit is totally wrong (heck, it's even wrong for Enterprise), I think that "may" be the only major problems, though. I'm sure there are others on the list who have a better idea on this than I. Devin -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: brian selzler Subject: Pennant number R16 According to "The Ships of Canada's Naval Forces 1910-1981" by Macpherson & Burgess that would be HMCS Crescent. Algonquin was R17, Crusader was R20 and Sioux was R64 Brian Selzler -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Fkbrown90@aol.com Subject: WW1 USN naval signal device In photo research related to a WW1 U.S.Naval vessel, I came across a few pictures showing a cone (called a "shape") hoisted, pointy end up,"to block" on a bridge signal halyard. It is a three dimensional device, not a flag. I understand there were other shapes used as well. The photos are B/W, so I do not know if different colored shapes were used. Can any SMML people advise the message code these various shapes transmitted? This may be a toughie, but I would like to know the code as of the WW1 era, although any period will be of interest. Thank you. Franklyn -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: GKingzett@aol.com Subject: Re: Dreadnought Color Scheme Lacking primary proof, I have a book entitled "the Complete Encyclopedia of Battleships" by Tony Gibbons published in 1983 which shows Dreadnought in a medium gray with black boottopping and red underbody. This is a color painting purporting to be of her as of 1906. He appears to have tracked the advent of boottopping fairly well, showing British WW1 ships with it, German without, and Yamato without it in Dec 1941. Gibbons generally shows his renderings with more weathering than one would expect in the "pride of the fleet", but he does try to be realistic. I can't find any other pictures which show Dreadnought's underbody at all, except one shot in dry dock in Anatomy of the Ship, which looks to be all one color, but which also shows her being painted, so no firm conclusion can be drawn. Gary -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "Mike Leonard" Subject: Flight IIA DDG The new issue of Warship International (Vol. XXXVII, No. 3) features very good color photos of DDG-80 ROOSEVELT on the inside of the front and back covers. Front inner cover is of the port bow; back cover of the port quarter and helo hangars. Caption states that the aft-facing SPY-1 radar arrays were raised by 2.44 meters to clear the height of the dual hangar. Mike -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: JVT7532@aol.com Subject: Steamer & Sub Greetings to everyone on the list. I wanted to ask if anyone knows of a small WWll era freighter in 1/350 scale that I could use with a couple of I.S.Corvettes I have. I wanted to do a diorama of a sinking freighter with a corvette standing by taking up the survivors from the water. I would like to keep it as small as possible so if anyone has any ideas about an available model please let me know. I'm also looking for a good accurate WWll German sub in 1/350. Thanks again for the help. Best regards, Jon -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: "Chris Preston" Subject: Re: Pennant number R16 To Bob Pearson, Hull pennant number R16 belonged to HMCS CRESCENT as she was commissioned into the RCN, in 1945. Later, when the RCN adopted USN style pennant numbers, this was changed to 226. HMCS CRUSADER's hull pennant number (as commissioned) was R20 (later 228). HMCS SIOUX was R64 (later 225). HMCS ALGONQUIN was R17 (later 224). Hope this helps. Cheers, Chris Preston Victoria, B.C. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: "John Sutherland" Subject: HMS Black Prince, minesweeper Hi, I am looking for information on the possible camouflage of the Black Prince in 1943 (late). Found plenty of info re her armament but not her paint job. Same applies to HMS Bangor circa 1942 and HMS Albacore (Algerine class) late war. Any help appreciated. John Sutherland Wellington New Zealand -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: "michael thrupp" Subject: Re: The Search For ATLANTIS I agree with Falk Pletschers' comments (SMML 1130,21) on the Aurora model - it may be a good investment from a collectors viewpoint, and a reminder of sunny days of yore, but in this case (and I have seen the Aurora kit and as a kid built the Aurora Graf Spee and H.M.S. KGV ) as a serious model, nostalgia ain't what it used to be However hope springs eternal. Thomas Randrup, Revell AG Product Manager, said yesterday that he would raise proposal for a new 1:350 scale kit of the Atlantis at the next Future Product meeting in 6 weeks time. All is possible, especially as they have just announced a new 1:72 scale model of the 105 ton, 115 ft later S-Boat (not the same as the 1:72 scale Airfix 78 ton , 106 ft early S- (or E-) Boat Living in hope Mike Thrupp -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: Cataldo Torelli Subject: Re: 1/700 USS Yorktown CV-5 >> I'm thinking about building USS Yorktown using Tamiya's Enterprise kit. I know they are in the same class, but I wonder if any modifications should be made? Can anyone give me some clues. Thanks in advance. << Henry, Tamiya Enterprise is in early war fit, so she is a good point to make the Yorktown. I'm not a Yorktown herself expert, but you probably need to modify the deck galleries and AA fit (not much difficult). Maybe the island needs some care? Try the new Classic Warships book about Yorktown class carriers. Sure it has all the details required. Best wishes and keep in touch, Cataldo Torelli. Madrid, Spain. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: "Chant, Peter" Subject: HMAS Vampire & Vendetta - Ozmods 1/700 scale I have just finished making up my Ozmods Vampire and so thought I would add a quick review. I see Shane did write about the kit in the August 1999 Internet Modeller but that was before he constructed it and I cannot find anything since. The Vampire and Vendetta are basically the same kit except that Vendetta has the Limbo mortar moulded aft and Vampire the classroom that was added in its place in 1981. The brass, decals and parts sprue are common. First the bad points. 1 By my measurement they are about 3mm short in the forecastle, making the bridge come too close to B turret. This is fairly easily solved by cutting the hull in two at the forecastle break and adding some card. Take the opportunity to replace the hull plating at the break that is far too thick and the wrong shape. 2 The shape of the turrets is a bit too square and the barrels way oversize. Again easy to correct with a file and some thinner rod. 3 The 40mm mounts, single and twin, are weird, nothing remotely like the real thing. Best binned and replaced with ones from the WEM Professional range. Then the good. 1 The brass masts and radar and the reshaped funnels are excellent and really capture the unique flavour of the rebuilt ships 2 The pictures and plan in the instruction sheet, along with the decals are good. They allow you to end up with a nice looking ship. Overall the turret shape, the forecastle deck details and the curve of the hull plating all strongly suggest that the hull has been reduced from the old Airfix Daring. But the funnels and superstructure have then been added with a much higher level of quality. An odd mixture, but good value for money and can be made up to a very nice model. Definitely Recommended. Peter Chant Plymouth UK Hi Peter, Excellent review - now all we need are some pictures for the SMML site (Mistress Lorna says "YES" in the background, she loves to see model pictures). I concur on the plus points, the instructions, PE & decals are very nice. On the forecastle being too short - did you place the bridge part right up against the funnel?? I found that it needs to go virtually slap bang up to the funnel (based on walking over the "Bat") which would take care of that 3mm differential to B turret. Or is it based on actual measurements of the entire hull? But no, I've yet to get going on this kit apart from some minor prep work. I was waiting until I went down to HMAS Vampire to get photos to really start on it. Now that's happened, I hope to start on it again next month ;-). There'll be a walkaround on both the APMA & SMML sites in the near future, plus my old inbox review of Vampire will also be going up on the SMML site. Regards, Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Christopher Decker" Subject: SMML Kit Specials Nauticus Models would like to announce the following specials for SMML mail list members: All Prices in US dollars, plus shipping at cost. Tamiya's new USS Indianapolis. Retail price is $33, for SMML members $23.00 ICM KONIG and GroBer Kurfurst, Retail price $89.98, for SMML Members $49.00 Pitroad/Skywave SWW03 HMS Tracker, hard to find out of production escort Carrier. Retail 33.50, for SMML members, $20. email orders@nauticusmodels.com if you are interested. regards cdecker president Nauticus Models -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Billgior@aol.com Subject: 1/350 scale kirishima japanese battleship dear smml: my name is bill giordano and im looking for a model of the 1/350 scale kirishima japanese battleship, anyone willing to sell one or trade even up for an original issue aurora atlantis kit i have one from 1957 issue.if not i will be glad to pay also. sincerely bill giordano -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "J. Ed Low" Subject: Adjusted (hopefully) links for poster and Warship International offer Sorry to repeat these two announcements but from the e-mails I have been getting, there appears to have been problems associated with the links which I post on my e-mails to SMML. Both the poster and warship international offers can be access via the front page of my link which is at: URL http://www.ijn.dreamhost.com Please click on "WHAT'S NEW", and click on items of interest. My apologies Ed. p.s. for those which missed the original messages this is the message regarding the poster: >> In response to a request for a high resolution rendering of my 3-D digital model of the Akizuki Class destroyer Fuyutsuki, I have made a poster of this ship. The statistics associated with the generation of this model and poster are as follows: * Digital model has 460,662 vertices and 312,433 polygons * Size of digital model file is 30.8 Mb. * Time required to build model by author - 14 months. * Image for poster was rendered at a resolution of 6,400 by 4,800 pixels. * Size of image file for poster is 87.9 Mb. * Poster is printed on A3 size paper (11.7"x16.5" or 297mm x 420 mm). * Paper is Professional media - Premium glossy photo paper. * Poster printed at a resolution of 1,440 by 720 dpi. * Posters are signed and dated by author. If you are interested in obtaining a copy of this poster, please visit URL: http://www.ijn.dreamhost.com/Poster/Poster.htm for additional information << And this is the Warship International message: >> I am selling a number of my Warship International magazines. There are 38 volumes spanning 1977-1992. They include most of the key volume relating to the IJN. For details of the magazine available, please go to URL http://www.ijn.dreamhost.com/Reference/Reference%20-%20Warship%20International.htm and look for magazines with AV on extreme right column. The magazines are all in good condition and will be sold as a package for $250 with postage being extra. << -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://www.smml.org.uk Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://www.tac.com.au/~sljenkins/apma.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume