Subject: SMML VOL 1133 Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 21:25:04 -0800 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: YORKTOWN 2: Historical vs. Memorial (was Hunley) 3: Fairmile D MTB 794 in box review 4: Re: USN Signal Device 5: The Other S-Boat (submarines - US)? 6: Sea Classics? 7: Re: New Revell 1:72 S-BOAT 8: Re: Yorktown conversion - air wings 9: Leaving the Hunley alone 10: Classic Warships new books: outstanding! 11: Fiume Camouflage Pattern 12: GATO: Thanks to all. (Give me more...) 13: Re: Hunley 14: ISW USS DETROIT help needed 15: War Grave? 16: Re: Yorktown CV-5 17: Mirage U-571 18: Re: Gato class reference 19: Model Boats Plans 20: Ships Boats & Davits 21: Re: Yorktown conversion 22: Testors paints and Lamp Finials 23: White Ensign Moskva PE -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Infomation 1: Northern California SMML 2001 Update -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Classic Warships help for Yorktown 2: Update from Classic Warships on resin kits -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Timothy Dike Subject: Re: YORKTOWN >> but to get Devastators you can try Pit-road/Skywave for a set of 5 for $13.00 and I think that White Ensign may make them as well. << The White Ensign ones are your best bet, they come three to a set and are very nicely molded. Check out the review of them in the January issue of ModelWarships.com (http://www.modelwarships.com/reviews/reviews.html). I have not seen the ones in the Skywave set, unless they are the same as the ONE included with their old Independence Class CV (and the DML/Dragon reissue). If it is then you will find that they are a little on the heavy side. I would like to add to the call to get a copy of the Classic Warships book on the Yorktown class CV's it has the photo's you will need for reference. Regards, Timothy Dike Webmaster and Editor ModelWarships.com http://www.modelwarships.com/index1.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: NedWriter@aol.com Subject: Historical vs. Memorial (was Hunley) >> Is it just me, or are there any others who feel the Hunley should have been left alone? I do agree the Hunley was a significant turning point is Naval combat, but after that, she became a grave. I don't feel there is just cause to open her up, I personally wish she (and her crew) would have been left in peace. How does everyone else feel? Maybe next somebody will see about raising the Arizona? << IMO - once the last living relatives of the sunken ship's victims has died (I'm talking about relatives who were alive and knew the victims) have died, the "sanctity of the grave" argument loses it's persuasive power. In civilian life, graveyards are moved (the remains respectfully disinterred and reinterred) to make way for Interstates, WalMarts and other modern necessities - in that light, isn't the historical knowledge to be gained from exhuming the Hunley more important than the sanctity of graves of men dead for nearly 140 years (i.e., long after the last living relative's last living relatives are gone)? The men buried in the Hunley are being reinterred with full military honors - they are not being treated shabbily. Also, the comparison between the Hunley (lost at sea) and the Arizona (preserved as a memorial) is not realistic or significant. No one could appreciate the Hunley nor study it - but the Arizona is visited by millions, and the Navy and Parks department permit scientific study (in fact, they conduct their own to monitor deterioration rates, etc.). There just isn't a comparison. I am not advocating callous disregard for the honored dead or the feelings of their living relatives - I am saying that society can have needs or interests that legitimately supercede those of the honored dead and their now-dead relatives - and as long as matters are handled with proper respect, I feel that history should be served. Ned -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Mithrand@aol.com Subject: Fairmile D MTB 794 in box review Hello SMMLies just received the new WEM kit 1/350 Fairmile D MTB 794, and after checking out the contents decided to let you all know my thoughts on this kit, so here goes. As usual the model arrives in a sturdy box well packed wrapped in loads of paper and well taped. Inside you will find all the parts sitting pretty in a sea of styrene foam. The kit comprises the one piece cast hull and superstructure.T/tubes18" x2,21"x2, dingy, binnacle, wheel mounting, 6pdrx2, c/floatsx2 all in a plastic bag connected to resin runners. Small brass and plastic rods different sizes in another. The kit also comes with 2 more t/tubes in a bag, these are not spares but replacements for the 21" tubes cast onto the runners. The PE fret is amazing, so much detail for such a small model will be hard to beat. As to the instructions,2pages of A4 both sides full of info. and a nice touch for all those who have considered attempting photo etch for the first time, they have given basic written help (BZ). go on give it a go. A little cleaning up of the superstructure is all that is required ten minutes tops and your ready to go. A very nice addition to any smmlies collection. TTFN Roy Allen -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: AandMBlevins@gateway.net Subject: Re: USN Signal Device I guess I did not scan the BM thoroughly enough! Al Blevins -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: NedWriter@aol.com Subject: The Other S-Boat (submarines - US)? Again - any references (books, websites, models) of US S-Boat class submarines? I've got the Friedman book; I've ordered Pig Boat 39; I've got Roscoe's Naval Institute book on order and have his abridged version (well-thumbed) - and Clay Blair's two-volume tome on US Sub-Ops. I've also picked up a few "I was there" books by WW-II US sub- commanders (though most made their reps on Fleet Boats) just to get a feel for sub-ops in the war. I've also joined the sub-committee (or I'm in the process, I think ... ). All based on recommendations here. But there has to be more out there - more that I'm not aware of or finding. Websites. Books. Magazines. Model kits? Thanks Ned -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: NedWriter@aol.com Subject: Sea Classics? I haven't seen that mag on newsstands for years - but I've seen a couple of recent references here. Anybody have contact/subscription information? I used to get this (and other Challenge publications) but don't see any of them anymore - not Scale Modeler or Sea Classics or ... Thanks Ned -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "michael thrupp" Subject: Re: New Revell 1:72 S-BOAT WRT New Revell 1:72 S-Boat kit (not Airfix variant) - No Bullsh*t, check out their (paper) catalog for 2001. I know we can all remember their Russian WW2 L Class Submarine kit which, though advertised several years back, did not materialise - but apparently for the investment they have made in this kit they could have produced several 1:48 aircraft kits. Mike (honest) Thrupp PS: Have just checked their website - revell-monogram.com - and it is not shown in their 1st 2 quarters production, but it is in their 2001 hard copy catalog. Hi Mike, You may need to check the Revell Germany site (can't remember the url :-( ). This kit seems more up their alley than RM. Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Cataldo Torelli Subject: Re: Yorktown conversion - air wings From: Rod Dauteuil >> As far as aircraft, Fujimi makes (or made) an aircraft set which consisted of F4F Wildcats, F4F's with separate wings for folding, and SBD Dauntlesses. << Two months ago I bought a couple of Fujimi sets from HLJ and they came in clear plastic!! Nice touch. And also included are Avengers. Mine are for a Enterprise. Regards, Cataldo Torelli. Madrid, Spain. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: Summers David Col 56 MDG/SGPMI Subject: Leaving the Hunley alone Accurate history is extremely important! Archeology (whether the Hunley or Egyptian tombs) is a major contributor to knowledge, especially for ages prior to mass media. History tells us humanity is capable of and points the way to the future. Knowing what the Hunley crew accomplished and how is the most significant memorial the rest of humanity can offer--made possible through archeology and museum displays. From another point of view, the earth has limited space--can't reserve it all in a fanatical reverence for the dead. The choice becomes placing the Hunley in a museum and the crew in a cemetary, or leaving it to become the foundation of a mall or oil platform. David Summers -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Loren Perry Subject: Classic Warships new books: outstanding! I just received my copies of Classic Warships new Warship Pictorials Nos. 9 and 10 - these are "Photo Album" books on Yorktown/Enterprise/Hornet and Portland/Indianapolis. Both books are outstanding. Photo reproduction is razor-sharp for the most part (depending on the quality of the original image.) A variety of camouflage schemes are shown as are pre-war appearances for all but Hornet (completed after WW2 had begun.) Carrier aircraft are also well covered in the CV book. My only complaint: no credits are given for the excellent paintings on the covers of the Portland/Indianapolis book. The rear cover shows a superbly realistic painting of the Indy aflame and sinking - a very disturbing scene to me. Other than this, these books are wonderful additions to a ship modeler's library, and I strongly recommend them. A heart WELL DONE to Steve Wiper. Loren Perry -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Reynaga, Tim@EDD" Subject: Fiume Camouflage Pattern The camouflage pattern for Fiume provided by Tauro in their instruction sheet is somewhat suspect. I'm only aware of a single photograph of the Fiume's pattern and it doesn't match the Tauro artwork all that well, as I recall. Another possible source of info is the AJ Press Monografie (or Profile?) Morskie booklet on the Zara. It has a highly attractive color rendering (port and starboard) of Fiume in her pattern. Unfortunately, since I don't read Polish I cannot say if their interpretation is based on much more than the artists imagination. Nevertheless, I highly recommend that pub as it has numerous photos of the Zaras and line drawings of the ships' hardware which you'll find useful in fitting out the Tauro kit. Also get the old Profile Warship monograph on the Zara, if you can find one. Not much on Fiume besides that blurry comou photo, but useful history and good clear pictures of Zara. Yet another possibility might be the WWII Regia Marina website at: http://www.regiamarina.net I haven't checked them out in a while, but they might have something useful for you. Good luck with it. Tim -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "Christian Griesser" Subject: GATO: Thanks to all. (Give me more...) Thanks to everyone, who sended me some information about the GATO-class. I received in a very short time a lot e-mails. I never expected such a"flood". So this way would be the easiest way for me to say "thank you very much". I think I need a weekend for an overview. But, I would like to receive more... There are some topics which have been coming up several times in the e-mails. Yes, the scale is 1/35 (NOT 1/350). And yes this is big. ( Yes, I am also not married:-) ) And yes I am mad. I investigate now since 5 years for the early german VIIc modell (also 1/35). So I do not expect to build the modell "next Saturday from 08.00 AM until 08.15 AM". About the "Floating drydock´s": A really excellent plan book (I own one). But for a sub-model in a such a big scale are to few hull stations available and the picture on the right side of this page is (in my example) in a very bad condition. (Maybe, I will have to buy a second one). So I call here for help. Because I try to build a waterline model with a short part of an quayside, I need also informations about: a.) The guys who seved on those subs ("selfmade" uniforms, like on german subs? also wearing in harbors "selfmade" uniforms?) b.) Also tactical stuff (next to to frontline or more in the back?)(how did they have refulled the sub? oil and torpedos?) c.) Who builded the quaysides (US-engineers? out of wood or out of concrete?) d.) How looked the stuff around the ship? torpedo-trolleys? how have they delivered the food out to the sub?(by car or lorry? what type of lorry?) e.) The painting of the subs (Comouflage? Are there some special signs on the turrets, like at the german subs? How looked a retouring boat, when it has sunken some ships?) f.) How was the sailor thinking about his sub? ("Just a tool for use"? or more like "If you scratch the varnish of my car, I will kill you"?) Thank you for all information you can get. Best regards, Christian -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Dizzydismal@cs.com Subject: Re: Hunley Mixed feelings. I would really love to be able to get into the Hunley. But it is truly a grave. My interest in history says bring the remaining civil war hulks up. I really want to see and touch them. The drawings and pictures available have not satisfied my curiousity in these ships. But I don't want to disturb the grave. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "Joe Drees" Subject: ISW USS DETROIT help needed Starting my first resin ship, the Iron Shipwright 1/350 USS Detroit. Can anyone tell me how long the fwd upper bridge(?) supports need to be? (Those tripod legs) Any other tips? I have read many articals on building resin ships and decided to take the plunge. TIA...Joe -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "Mike Leonard" Subject: War Grave? Jim McCormick asked - >> Is it just me, or are there any others who feel the Hunley should have been left alone? << Good point; it's arguably a "war grave" and as such should have been left undisturbed. MWL -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: Craig R Bennett Subject: Re: Yorktown CV-5 Hi Guys Concerning other details to the Yorktown CV-5 is the number of large life rafts under the conning tower they seem to mounted the platform that had lifeboats in peacetime and in lenght reach the hangar deck. There seems to eight mounted vertically and one photo of her in drydock gives the impression that there two layers of life rafts.All other photos of the Yorktown with this are taken in the distance. Craig -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: "Mike Leonard" Subject: Mirage U-571 The film "U-571" already qualifies as ancient history, but Mirage Models of Poland has issued a 1/400 scale Special Edition plastic kit of a Type VIIC -boat to capitalize on interest in the movie. It's a fairly simple kit with about 35-40 parts, but the level of detail isn't bad at all. Better than the old Heller model. Instructions are entirely in Polish but the diagrams are easy enough to follow. MWL -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: MDDoremus@aol.com Subject: Re: Gato class reference Joe Poutre wrote: >> For the ultimate reference, a 1 to 1 version in original fit, go see the USS Cod: http://www.usscod.org/ << Also check out "USS Cod: from Oxford Museum Press. It's published by (for?) the Cod museum and contains a lot of detail interior and exterior pictures. It has been mentioned favorably here on SMML. I bought my copy from Squadron, U$10.96, in the January supplement. Mark Doremus Eden Prairie, MN TCAH -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: "John Rule" Subject: Model Boats Plans Recently someone asked about the Fighting Fleets series of 1:1200 drawings that were published in Model Boats magazine. I have an Excell file of the subjects and dates of publication of the articles if anyone requires it. It is crude but gives the ships covered and the date of the magazine in which they were located. Sincerely, John Rule -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: RhinoBones@aol.com Subject: Ships Boats & Davits Looking for a bit of advice on a couple of things. Today I received my first Kombrig kit in the mail. First of all, their Tsesarevitch kits appears to be a bit of a challenge to build, but certainly a satisfying endeavor if done slowly and patiently. Secondly, I'll need to scratch build the davits and the ships boats stink. Having never made 700 scale davits, I was thinking that I might find some suitably small paper clips to use as the starting point. Any suggestions? Also, the ships boats have a nice outer shape but the insides are all filled in with resin. Has anyone made a purchase of the Modelkrak ships boats? If they have any internal structure at all then they're better than the ones from Kombrig. I don't want to make it sound like I'm beating down Kombrig . . . not at all. There are a few pits in the hull and the instructions are sparse, but everything looks very good. Nice crisp moldings and the hull lays nice and flat on the table. After I carve a lower hull this puppy is going to look pretty darn good. That is . . . if I can build some davits and find some decent boats. Regards, RhinoBones -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: "Henry T Chen" Subject: Re: Yorktown conversion Hi All, Thanks you so much for responding to my inquiry on converting Enterprise to Yorktwon. I guess I will be picking up a Tamiya Hornet kit, along with a couple of books and planes real soon. Regards, Henry -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: "aa8." Subject: Testors paints and Lamp Finials To all list users, Can anyone tell me where to buy lamp finials in the UK. I currently battling with the Glencoe USS Oregon kit and I want to mount it on a hardwood stand. I might be missing something here but I don't know where to buy these items or even if they are in common usage here. we certainly have never seen them in this house. also Can anyone tell me where I can buy Testors paints in the UK? I usually use Humbrol or Xtra-colour but there is a particular shade I need from the Testors range. Kind Regards Andy Jones -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: Peter Subject: White Ensign Moskva PE I've seen a few posts on the new White Ensign Moskva PE set, designed for the older Airfix 1/600 Moskva kit and thought I'd offer a few remarks. The PE is to me among the best I have seen (as thin as the newest, best stuff from Gold Medal Models). The brass is quite thin and the railings and radars wonderfully delicate, looking more like the "you-can-almost-see-it-almost-not-see-it" look for railings that is hard to get at in these smaller scales. The instructions are clear, with illustrations for each major subassembly and text (English only) that talks you through some of the needed changes to kit parts. Most of what you'd want replaced from the kit is replaced with PE parts. Two red stars for the bow and a crest of the USSR for the stern are included, as well as rotors and new tail pieces for the two kit helos. For those of us far away from most everything, the PE set survived mailing from the UK to Korea. It comes in a ziploc bag, sandwiched between two pieces of cardboard and tucked inside an envelope. A caution: the PE is delicate and I suspect this would be a bad PE set to start with if you are new to such things or still unsteady with products from other vendors. I am now considering ordering a second set of the Moskva PE to improve my Aoshima Kiev (1/700). I built the kit with Gold Medal Models' generic Soviet ship PE set which is better than just OK, but still a shade heavy and thick compared to this White Ensign stuff. Lastly, a word about the Airfix kit, which is older than both my kids' ages added together. I would not consider building it without the PE. Many parts have little to no detail, and most everything is chunky. Things like the cranes are just too clumsy in plastic. I also used *ALOT* of putty, and some stryene sheet, to fill gaps and make stuff fit together reasonably well. One nice touch is that the inside of each hull half has a scribed line, so cutting the hull down to a waterline version is very easy. You'll need to glue some sheet plastic on the bottom of the hull if you do it as a waterline, because the hull halves won't hold their shape otherwise. Some of my massive gap filling was likely due to my late discovery that the hull halves would not hold their shape when cut to a waterline version. For what it is worth, the plastic in my kit was very, very soft. Good when hacking off non-details, bad when the knife slips and an unwanted groove gets cut into a kit part, or a misplaced finger... Anyway, thanks for a great mailing list. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Infomation -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: SAMI ARIM Subject: Northern California SMML 2001 Update Hi everybody, Here is a short update on the upcoming SMMLCon in Northern California. We are in contact with a lot of people in the shipmodeling world to give seminars. We want to have short, but entertaining seminars, which will be about 1/2 to one hour each. One of the confirmed seminars will be held by Tom Harrison of the Tom's modelworks. It will be about "resin casting and photoetch business in the cottage industry world". Another speaker will be the modeling extraordinaire Bert Mc Dowell. Bert will be speaking about "Building a better Essex in 1/700" from the Hasegawa kit, going beyond the original article of Larry Geartner. For those who might want to know, Bert is the master modeler, who prepared the masters of the 1/700 Liberty ship Jeremiah O'Brian, the Gambier Bay and 1/350 USS Essex kits for Tom's Modelworks. Another prospective speaker will be the maritime historian and author Ed Van Der Porten. More information will follow soon. I hope to see a lot of you there. Best Regards Sami Arim -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: SteveWiper@aol.com Subject: Classic Warships help for Yorktown I publish a book, Warship Pictorial #9 - Yorktown Class Carriers, for sale @ $12, that has many good photos of Yorktown, Enterprise, and Hornet, in it. There are over 120 photos total, a good buy for $12, if I say so myself, and I do! I am also shipping a batch of my latest USN Light AA to Pacific Front Hobbies, which contains 13x .50cal machine guns, 36x single 20mm guns, and 12x twin 20mm guns. The set sells for $4. I believe this is the only source of .50cal's and twin 20's on the market. Thanks, Steve Wiper www.classicwarships.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: SteveWiper@aol.com Subject: Update from Classic Warships on resin kits I am currently testing a new caster to produce my resin kits in the very near future. He comes highly recommended, and I have seen some of his work in the past, so lets hope for the best! If all looks good, I will be releasing the 1/700 USS Wichita first, to be followed by the 1/350 USS Brooklyn and USS Helena. I then plan to start releasing my older kits, starting with the 1/350 USS Salem. All kits will be available only thru Pacific Front Hobbies, and I will announce when this is to take place. Thanks, Steve Wiper @ www.classicwarships.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://www.smml.org.uk Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://www.tac.com.au/~sljenkins/apma.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume