Subject: SMML VOL 1136 Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 00:22:31 -0800 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Dreadnought's victim was . . . 2: Re: HMS Dreadnought Trivia 3: Re: Turtle: Truth or Fiction 4: Pearl sub base-Quay filler 5: John Snyder 6: Sandpiper Class 7: Dreadnought 8: Re: Rhino Bones-Dreadnought the brave?? 9: Re: SEA RAM 10: New Revell kits 11: Re: Sea Ram 12: USN Uniforms WW2 - Color Trivia 13: Sandpiper 14: Re: Dreadnought Trivia 15: Re: Dreadnaught 16: More warships trivia 17: Re: the greatest generation 18: Re: SEA RAM 19: Re: Fabulous news! What scale? Resin or photo-etch? 20: Re: HMS Dreadnought Trivia 21: Re: Classic Warship's 1/700 USS Wichita 22: Re: An Officer and a Gentleman 23: HMS Dreadnought Trivia 24: Re: Sea Ram 25: HMS Dreadnought Trivia 26: Royal Navy M-class submarines 27: Re: Lamp finials 28: Hasegawa Kits 29: Apologies 30: Tamiya 350 Fletcher 31: Re: HMS Dreadnought Trivia 32: 16" ricochets 33: Re: DREADNOUGHT 34: Those huge "M" Class submarinins of 1918 35: HMS Dreadnought Trivia, etc -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Infomation 1: Atlanta Model Expo 2001 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Bob Pearson" Subject: Dreadnought's victim was . . . The Unterseeboot U-29. . which was commanded by Otto Weddigen, who had previously sunk the three Cressy class cruisers, Cressy, Aboukir and Hogue while commanding U-9. . Dreadnought ran U-29 down with the loss of all U-9's crew. regards, Bob Pearson -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Richa5011@aol.com Subject: Re: HMS Dreadnought Trivia >> The HMS Dreadnought is credited with destroying one ship during her career. When, how and to whom did this destruction take place? << That would be German submarine U-29 (Commanded by Otto Weddigen if memory serves). Dreadnought deliberately rammed the U-29 on 18 March 1915 off Morray Firth. Nat Richards -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Wanderer" Subject: Re: Turtle: Truth or Fiction >> Crew Version A - Turtle piloted by David Bushnell himself. Crew Version B - Turtle piloted by volunteer, one Mr Lee. << David was not strong enough to operate the craft by himself, so his brother (Ezra) was trained to operate it. Ezra fell ill shortly before the attack date, and a volunteer (Lee) took his place. As for the other options, little is known for certain. The undisputed facts are as follows: - The craft was launched, and recovered later with the operator in a very poor condition. - No mention is made in the British logs of any attempted attack (the guards were required to shout "all's well" every 10 minutes, and were relieved at short regular intervals) or any mention of an explosion in the area. - The fleet did not move until January 1777, and the attack took place on 5/6 September 1776. - There was only sufficient air for 30 minutes inside the boat. Speculation follows ;o) Experience during the Second World War has shown that it was very difficult to position small submarines under ships, even when using electric motors and having multiple crew (navigator, operator, look-out etc). In addition, there was only sufficient air for 30 minutes (under normal conditions) in the submarine, but the stress of the first combat operation in such a strange craft is likely to have reduced that available air considerably. >> Battle Version C - Copper plate too strong to attach explosive, explosive abandoned. Battle Version D - Turtle entangles itself in Eagles rudder, explosive abandoned. << Unlikely, as one would have expected the alert guards to have reported this. During the US civil war, guards noticed and reported every attempted attack of (more advanced) submarine craft. >> Results Version E - Explosive floats downstream, destroys a schooner. Admirals spooked, moves fleet. Results Version F - Explosive blows up harmlessly. Nonetheless, Admiral is spooked, moves fleet. Results Version G - After bumping into rudder, fleet fires on Turtle (miss) and Admiral is spooked, moves fleet. << The fleet does not move for three of four months, so the Admiral was obviously not spooked. No reports of explosions can be found in any official records, and no reports of attack on or firing by the fleet can be found in any of the ship's logs. There are no reports of any ships sinking. >> Results Version H - Attacke completely unsuccessful, fleet doesn't move anywhere. << This is the most likely result. Probably Lee became exhausted due to lack of oxygen and the effects of too much CO2 and did not closely approach the fleet. Regards James -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Minadmiral@aol.com Subject: Pearl sub base-Quay filler >> At the Pearl sub-base, a new-built concrete quay completed shortly after the Japanese attack included a sunk-and-raised Japanese midget sub, which went with crushed rock into the foundation. << OUCH!! With or without crew (remains)? Why didn't they save it?? Chuck Duggie WoodenWalls Listmeister Naval wargamer, amateur naval historian, and ship modeler -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Minadmiral@aol.com Subject: John Snyder Hi; Do your WWII USN paint chip sets include that special pink for the sub full of nurses? Could one do a sub model in "that" pink for a model contest and get away with it? (8<)) Chuck Duggie WoodenWalls Listmeister Naval wargamer, amateur naval historian, and ship modeler -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Wannsee" Subject: Sandpiper Class Hi Guys Many thanks for all the info on these Ships, it seems as if there was more than one class of River patrol boat in RN service, I am after as much info as I can get on *ANY* River patrol boats and what I need is a photo or drawing can anybody help me ?? I am very interested to find out if any served in Africa. again all my thanks to all you fellow Model Makers Martin -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) Reply-To: David Ward Subject: Dreadnought HMS Dreadnought never fired her guns in anger during her lifetime! The 'ship' she sank was U-29 on March 18th 1915. It appears that the U-29 was attempting to set up a torpedo shot on a Grand Fleet patrol sweep, and she broached to within sight of the Dreadnought, and was duly rammed and sunk. In the latter war years, Dreadnought was considered to be unfit to stand in the battle line, being a 1-off with differing handling characteristics and was assigned to the Thames Estuary to provide distant support for the Dover Patrol. Dave Ward - ex MN engineer. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "D.Przezdziecki" Subject: Re: Rhino Bones-Dreadnought the brave?? Well,not a ship exactly Rhino,more like a boat. On 18th of March 1915, Dreadnought on her way to Cromarty rammed and sunk U-29 (Otto Weddiger of Aboukir, Cressy, Hogue and Hawke fame). It was one and only time when Dreadnought inflicted any damage on something other than herself. Regards D.P. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: Craig R Bennett Subject: Re: SEA RAM Hi Guys Concerning the discussion on the Ram launchers. Have you forgotten this was brought up in early Nov, 2000 issues 1054-7of SMML. The Ram has been installed on 12 Spruance class DD's. Also I seen pictures of them being put on the Wasp class LHD. Speaking of this has Revell Germany come out yet with the Wasp class yet? BTW the other day at local hobby shop I saw the HMS Illustrious by Dragon it looks like the Ark Royal kit with different masts and isn't the latest rebuild of this class with with the sea dart launcher removed to extend the hangar. It goes for $22.00 USD. Craig -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: thorstenwahl@t-online.de (Wahl, Thorsten L.) Subject: New Revell kits Hi Folks, further to the thread on the new Revell S-Boat. Had the chance to browse a preview copy of the new catalogue today - for those so interested: 05051 - 1/72 German torpedoboat S100 ~ USD 15 - fourth quarter (no # of parts given) Also new: 05065 - 1/230 USS Skipjack (whose molds?) - USD 5 - first quarter (21 parts) HTH Thors ´At least we don´t name our ships for our mothers-in-law.´ USS Reuben James to HMS Battleaxe -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "P Chant" Subject: Re: Sea Ram There is a Raytheon artists impression in Janes' at: http://www.janes.com/defence/naval_forces/gallery/981209.jpg Who also report that it will be fitted for trials on HMS York this year. Peter Chant Plymouth UK -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: Steve Holton Subject: USN Uniforms WW2 - Color Trivia My late father politely described the grey uniforms as one of Admiral King's "innovations". I still have some of his grey shoulder boards that were part of the grey "regimen". He may have been a traditionalist but he definitely did not consider them to be an improvement over the traditional. He wore these while stationed at the Bureau of Aeronautics during the war - he was a specialist in aircraft propellers. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Friedrich Kappes Subject: Sandpiper Hi Martin, Sandpiper was a single ship, she had only a near-sister. launched 1933 185 ts standard 51x9,35x0,63 m 11,25 kts 26 t oil 1x3,7 in howitzer 1x6 pdr Hotchkiss 35 men Thornycroft built, to China in 1942 Robin (Yarrow built, 1934) 226 ts standart 47,63x8,13x1,07 m 12,75 kts 41 ts oil Friedrich The FriedrichFiles http://sites.netscape.net/friedkappes -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: GKingzett@aol.com Subject: Re: Dreadnought Trivia Only battleship to sink a submarine, U-29, March 18, 1915. Ran down and rammed. The U-boat was apparently unaware of the presence of Dreadnought. Source, Anatomy of the Ship, by John Roberts. Gary -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: Gord and Doreen Smith Subject: Re: Dreadnaught HMS Dreadnought had the distinction of ONE confrontation with the enemy. She rammed and sank the U29 on March 18, 1915. At the time she was on her way home for a refit (or at least the orders had been cut) because the Admiralty had begun to realize how much destruction could be wrought on a fighting ship with so much soft armour on her topsides. After the refit she went back into the fleet but never saw action again and was sold off after W.W.I (1920 I think) for a pittance. Gordo CANADA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "D.Przezdziecki" Subject: More warships trivia Two questions to get the grey cells going: 1 which meeting between Grand Fleet and High Seas Fleet also included an American squadron?? 2 during WW II which British build ship US Navy wanted but did not get?? Regards D.P. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: raisingirl@mindspring.com Subject: Re: the greatest generation hello all.... I can't help but thank Bob Santos for sharing the post regarding the veteran from the USS Nevada with the rest of us. Two years ago I shared a TriStar flight from SFO to ATL with a retired destroyerman who had been in the Bay area to attend a reunion for his 710-class destroyer. He spent perhaps the first third of the flight regaling me with stories from his Navy days, his days in the war, his days serving aboard a fleet oiler, his time off Korea. Now that I look back on it, it's priceless. Stories like the one Bob shared with us remind us how much we owe the greatest generation, the generation that fought to keep us from re-entering the Dark Ages, and when we let them share their stories with us we are honoring them and helping keep their contributions alive. In addition to Mr. Brokaw's magnificent book by the same name, I also heartily recommend "The Good War" by Studs Terkel, a massive oral history of World War II featuring participants from just about all angles of it. Thank you very much for sharing this, Bob. jodie http://www.mindspring.com/~raisingirl/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: Kenneth Perry Subject: Re: SEA RAM Are you guys talking about the Rolling Airframe Missile system? I don't know if we are talking about the same item, but the RAM is mounted on a base similar to the Phalanx, but holds 21 missiles which cannot be reloaded at sea. Rusty, I have a few pictures of these if we are talking about the same thing here. Ken -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: SteveWiper@aol.com Subject: Re: Fabulous news! What scale? Resin or photo-etch? >> Comment: I've never seen photo etch guns that look realistic. Shields, of course! Barrels and pedestals, no--they need to be resin/plastic/white metal. << The USN Light AA Set from Classic Warships is in 1/700, and it is in photo etch. There are no properly scaled items of this type in plastic, white metal or resin in 1/700. All are overscaled. When you add glue or paint to the photo etch, it will give a 3D effect. If you think this does not work, keep trying, because it does look good when properly done. Corsair Armada is in the process of releasing a set of 20mm singles with resin pedestals, but the gun is still in photo etch, which again, is the only way to get it in scale. Steve @ www.classicwarships.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: Allan and Crystal Plumb Subject: Re: HMS Dreadnought Trivia >> The HMS Dreadnought is credited with destroying one ship during her career. When, how and to whom did this destruction take place? << Dreadnought rammed and sank U-29 on 18 Feb 1915 in the North Sea. Give us a hard one. I had to check Breyer for the details, but I knew it was "sank sub by ramming" from memory. But then, I keep copies of Breyer and Duilin/Garzke and Raven/Roberts by my bed for pre-sleep restful reading, so who knows? :-) Allan Plumb -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: SteveWiper@aol.com Subject: Re: Classic Warship's 1/700 USS Wichita >> Classic Warships lists this kit as the 1942 configuration. Does anyone know how difficult it would be to modify it to a 1943 or 1944 version of the same ship, when it served in the Pacific? << Sorry all. That is a misprint on the web site. The kit of the USS Wichita is in her 1944 configuration. Thanks, Steve @ www.classicwarships.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: Allan and Crystal Plumb Subject: Re: An Officer and a Gentleman >> The following is from another list but I thought you might enjoy it because it's from "A GUY WHO WAS THERE". [...] After Normandy the USS Nevada was sent south for the invasion of Southern France. He said that they shelled Marseille and Toulon. At Toulon he said there was the ex-French Battleship Richelieu (sp?) and that the Germans had taken off many of her guns and mounted them as coastal guns on the bluffs above the beach. Still he had a gleam in his eye when he told me that they "sent the Richelieu down stern first." They would go in and bombard and the former main turrets from the Richelieu would be firing back. << I appreciate the story and all the opinions therewith, but I point this out as an example of the problems with eyewitness accounts. Richelieu wasn't at Toulon, and certainly wasn't sunk there. She went to Dakar after Mers-el-Kebir, after she went over to the Free French was refitted in New York until 8/43, and in June/July 1944 was near the Andaman Islands and Sabang with the British Eastern Fleet. (All per Breyer.) Now, with which ship did Nevada have its discussions? AFAIK, all French capital ships at Toulon were scuttled in 11/42. That would be Provence, Ocean, Dunkerque, and Strasbourg. Breyer says the pre-dreadnought Condorcet was damaged but not sunk in 11/42, was used by the Germans as a barracks ship, and was sunk by an Allied air raid. Which of these might have provided coast guns, or were they pre-existing? Allan Plumb -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: "Kevin W. Woodruff" Subject: HMS Dreadnought Trivia The HMS Dreadnought while on a sweep throught the North Sea on March 18, 1915 rammed and sank the U-29 under the command of K/Lt Otto Weddigen off Pentland Firth, making her the only battleship to ever sink a submarine. Weddigen in the U-9 had been the first person in a submarine to sink a ship since the CSS Hunley when on September 22, 1914 he sank the cruisers HMS Aboukir, HMS Cressy, and HMS Hogue in 75 minutes off the Hook in the Netherlands Kevin W. Woodruff, M. Div. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24) From: "JOHN CURRIE" Subject: Re: Sea Ram HMS YORK will be conducting trials with Sea Ram, it will be in place of one of the CIWS mounts. J W Currie -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 25) From: "Jana & Pavel" Subject: HMS Dreadnought Trivia Dear Rinobones, Too easy I think !8 March 1915 H.M.S. Dreadnought rammed and sank U-boat U-29 at Lat. 58* 21' N, Long 01* 12' E. At that time under Captain W.J.S. Alderson RN. Reference: Warship Profile # 1 H.M.S. Dreadnought 1906-1920 Also in this publication and cross referenced by others there is a humors incident. A number of Cambridge students led by a Mr. Horace Cole perpetrated a hoax on the Royal Navy by sending a Telegram announcing a visit by the Emperor of Abyssinia. After receiving the distinguished guests and allowing them to see the Dreadnougt the "Emperor" and company were ushered ashore with all due ceremony. Needless to say, quite a breach of security in those prewar days. Regards Pavel. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 26) From: "Jens H. Brandal" Subject: Royal Navy M-class submarines The talk on the M-class and its failure lately made me look though my bookshelves for a chapter in "The book of heroic failures" written by Stephen Pile which will hopefully add some spice to SMML VOL 1136, and I quote: "THE WORST SUBMARINE The conventional submarine, rising and descending at will, is of only limited interest to our sort of student. It does not compare with the more versatile K-boats which the British developed in 1917. K-1 sank after colliding with K-4 off the Danish coast. K-2 caught fire on its first test dive. K-3 plunged inexplicably to the sea bed with the Prince of Wlaes on board, eventually re-surfacing only to sink after being rammed by K-6. K-4 ran aground, K-5 foundered in the Bay of Biscay. K-14 sprang a leak before its first trial and during one celebrated manouvre in the North Sea it collided with K-22, which used to be K-13 but was renamed after it keeled over at Loch Gare in Scotland while on seaworthiness trials. K-14 sank, while K-22 was damaged beyond repair after getting in the way of HMS Inflexible, a cruiser which happened to be passing. In the same manoeuvre K-17 was struck by HMS Fearless, having already been hit by K-7, thereby incapacitating itself. On observing this mayhem, K-4 stopped engines, altered course and was rammed by K-6 which later got stuck on the ocean bed. Better still, K-15 sank in Portsmouth Harbour before going anywhere or doing anything. Ks 18, 19, 20 and 21 were never completed, but their keels were modified for use in the new M range. M-1 was rammed by a merchant vessel while on diving patrol in the channel and M-2 sank after springing a leak." And so ladies and gentlemen, came the M-class to my attention... When I saw a 1:350 scale Sea Wolf resin kit at the WEM stand four years ago, I just had to have one, even though it was selling for around £50. The kit consists of few parts; the "superstructure" being cast with the hull and rudder. The gun being cast as a separate part as are the diving planes. Casting quality is pretty good with a few easily filled air bubbles on the keel and a mould parting line which needs filling and sanding. The propellers are cast in resin, whereas the V-braces need scratchbuilding. Brass rods are included for periscopes, snorkels and propshafts as well as pins for the aforementioned diving planes. Instructions are limited to a single sheet of paper which looks like it is the photocopy of a photocopy of a photocopy, judging by the quality of the photo on the sheet - the box art is a photo of a completed model of M-1. No decals are included, and with the rather limited painting instructions, I decided to finish my M-2 (just to be different) in a scheme of dark grey over light grey with plain hull red bottom. For letters, I used Letraset dry transfers, the font style being not far off the box art, but hardly prototypical for the M-class; Helvetica. Although it was easy enough to build, the lack of references made the resulting model probably not entirely accurate. Even so I enjoyed making it, and a piece of submarine history. Jens -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 27) From: Marc Flake Subject: Re: Lamp finials Okay, I got the finials at Home Depot. I also got some 1/4 inch screws -- they're close, but they don't fit. Where does one get "1/4-28 nf thread" screws? Marc -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 28) From: RhinoBones@aol.com Subject: Hasegawa Kits I have a question for those of you who are familiar with Hasegawa and their 1:700 Water Line Series. A year ago I purchased the Hasegawa 1:700 Water Line Series IJN Heavy Cruiser Haguro for use as a test bed. The price was only $7 and the kit has served admirably as my test subject. One really nice, and totally unexpected, feature of the kit was that in addition to the basic kit there were also two sprues of extra detailing parts. Here's the questions . . . 1) are these extra sprues the same as the Skywave detailing sets, 2) do all of Hasegawa's 1:700 Water LIne Series kits come with these extra sprues and 3) and if I purchased an IJN destroyer from the 1:700 Water Line Series would I also get the equivalent of the Skywave E-02 DD detailing set? Also . . . You SMML people are a sharp bunch of nails. My HMS Dreadnought trivia question didn't seem to stump anyone!! Also #2 . . . I finished off a Zhengdefu Ding Yuan the other day. Too me that's worth a whole day of surfing and a double scotch on the rocks. I have a few pictures scanned when she was at the 90% completion level for anyone interested. Regards, RhinoBones -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 29) From: Subject: Apologies Hi Everyone, I would like to send apologies to anyone who has been trying to get in contact with me or even get any sense from my direction since Christmas. I have been struggling and beating and kicking a keyboard that did not really want to do what I wanted and kept quiting on me, for too long now and I ended up taking the whole set up in for investigation. In the end a complete clean out and new Mac OS sorted the problem out and now I have a lot of catching up to do, so please bear with me, I will reply as soon as possible if you have e.mailed me recently. I know its late, but Happy New Year to you all. All the Best Peter Hall WEM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 30) From: Keith Butterley Subject: Tamiya 350 Fletcher Hi all, Ok I know we have been over this a couple of times, I tried searching the SMML archives, but it doesn't seem to be working. It will be the first USN ship I have ever done, so I want to do it right: What changes are needed to be made to this kit? How many men do I need to show on deck/upper decks/bridge and where, if ship is represented in a gun action, AA action or depthcharge action or torpedo attack? What colour would the uniforms be? This is going to be a two-ship father-son diorama, so we are both eagerly awaiting the answers. TIA Happy modeling Keith Butterley -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 31) From: "Michael J. D'Silva" Subject: Re: HMS Dreadnought Trivia Yes, RhinoBones, the answer is quite surprising. One would have expected more battle honours for so famous a ship. Still, she did give her name to a whole class of battleships and battlecruisers that followed her construction. So, in a sense, she lived on through the ships that followed her. HMS Dreadnought's one claim to fame is having rammed and sunk U-29, which was commanded by Otto Weddigen. He had previously sunk the British cruisers Aboukir, Cressy, Hogue and Hawke, while commanding the U-9 in 1914. The following description is taken from AOTS The Battleship Dreadnought by John Roberts: On 18 March 1915, having just completed strategic exercises with the Grand Fleet, the 4th Battle Squadron was detached to proceed to Cromarty, which had just been established as a relief base. At 12.28 pm as they were moving away from the main fleet, Lieutenant Commander Piercy of Dreadnought sighted a periscope about 1500yds away just off the ship's bow. Dreadnought altered course toward the submarine, which was steering a slightly erratic course across the battleship's bow from port to starboard, and increased speed to 17.5kts. As the U-boat does not appear to have made an attempt to dive it seems likely she was not aware of the battleship's approach, at least not until it was too late. When the range was down to 600yds one of Dreadnought's 12pdr guns was fired, but with only a periscope to aim at the shot missed. At 12.35pm, with the submarine still moving to starboard and Dreadnought turning in the same direction, the U-boat was rammed in the starboard quarter. The bow of the enemy vessel rose up out of the water at a steep angle and passed down Dreadnought's side before sinking. On the submarine's bow, in raised but overpainted lettering, was seen the number U29. (Biblio: AOTS The Battleship Dreadnought, John Robers, Naval Institute Press, 1992, ISBN 1-55750-057-6, Page 17 - Operational History.) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 32) From: "Doug Wilde" Subject: 16" ricochets Bob Santos recounting of his chance encounter with a former USS Nevada crewman (many thanks for the story) reminded me of the Navy's presence in Idaho, and the subject line of this note. I moved to Pocatello, Idaho in the mid 70s for grad school and soon discovered the Naval Reserve had a presence in town. For those of you not near a map, Pocatello is in the southeast corner of the state, about three hours drive from Salt Lake City, Yellowstone and the Grand Tetons. Poky is on the edge of the Snake River Plains, a cold high desert where sagebrush is the dominate vegetation. The Plains are volcanic, comprised of 4 or 5 lava flows and marked by three great cinder cones, called buttes there. East and Middle Butte are side by side and a couple hundred feet tall (some maintain that they are the real "Grand Tetons") whereas a dozen or so miles further south is Southern Butte, many times larger and hundreds of feet taller. So why was the Navy here? Turns out the Navy had had facilities in town to reline naval guns, up to 16". They needed a place to test the guns and that was out on the Plains. When I was there the foundations for the gun mounts were still present. They either fired north, across the desert, or south, at Southern Butte. And if the shot did not go where intended, the 16" shell would ricochet for a few more miles. The Navy still has a presence in the desert. As the Atomic Age dawned the government needed a place to build and test nuclear reactors. EBR1, Experimental Reactor 1, was built there and was the first place to generate electricity from nuclear fission, lighting the nearby town of Arco. This also is the place the Navy tested reactor designs and even trained (still do?) submariners. I was there because the old naval gunnery range, now the Idaho National Engineering Laboratory (containing a dozen or so nuclear facilities and coverin 894 square miles) also was an Environmental Research Park and I was there to study rabbits. Whole swaths were posted because of unexploded ordinance and you did not want to be anywhere near THOSE areas if there was a brush fire. Doug Wilde -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 33) From: Roland Mar Subject: Re: DREADNOUGHT How about the U-29 by ramming on February 18, 1915 in the North Sea? Roland Mar -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 34) From: Subject: Those huge "M" Class submarinins of 1918 Noting the recent request for drawings on the M class submarines of 1918, my plans service does still include that item. In fact I have recently had many of my early small drawings enlarged and updated. (They were small drawings because I only had a small drawing board then). Were they a success? Well the consensus of opinion at the time they were in operation, was that they were a good 'boat' with excellent diving characteristics. The idea of mounting a 12" gun in a submarine actually worked, and was capable of firing with the hull at periscope depth. (Providing that the waterproof cap was opened). The idea of a 12" shell arriving on an unarmoured merchant ship, out of the blue, with no other ship in sight was a distinct tactical advantage. The other bonus was that the cost of the shell was much less than the standard 21" or 18" Torpedo. The three "M" class were built from the material for three of the steam powered "K" class from their redesigned plans. The K's (also in my lists) had proved to be too technically advanced for their own good. Too many new systems in one boat, and if something went wrong, then there were indeed problems. The main problem with the "M" class was that the British Admiralty (the RN) were terrified the enemy would get hold of the idea, and it was perceived at the time, that there was no answer to an underwater 12" gun suddenly appearing on a convoy route, even though it be protected by destroyers with a few depth charges. (Depth charges were introduced from 1917, and most ships (destroyers etc) were limited to just two, due to lack of production. Asdic detection too was in its very early and basic stage. You had to be stopped to listen). This was why the "M" was sent out to the Med in 1918. The war ended soon after, so it never had to prove the idea on operations, due to lack of axis targets. It would seem that the costs of advertising my Plans Service is falling on stony ground. See www.john-lambert-plans.com for lists of my 150+ Warship and 120+ Weapon subjects. Yours "Aye" John Lambert -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 35) From: "Tony Ireland" Subject: HMS Dreadnought Trivia, etc Hi RhinoBones, HMS Dreadnought either happened to collide with, or rammed deliberately, the German U-boat U-9 in, I think, about October, 1914. Not many weeks earlier, her captain, Lt.-Cdr Weddigen, had made history by sinking the old British 12,000-ton armoured cruisers Aboukir, Hogue, and Cressy on 22nd September, 1914, while they patrolled the Dogger Bank area of the North Sea. Weddigen must have thus been, I presume, the first famous 'U-Boat Ace'. He must have perished in the North Sea, I imagine, although I don't know exactly where. BTW - re my 'First Ship' yarn in Vol 1087 on 9th Dec. last - re the S.A.T.S. 'General Botha' (ex 1885 vintage HMS 'Thames'). I unearthed a b.& w. photo of the ship I took in 1942 with my clandestine camera, viewed beam-on from the shore. It is surprisingly clear and detailed, as an 84KB JPEG image. Anyone interested, please contact me off-List. I had not seen this photo for some 50 years, so was surprised to find that I wrongly imagined she was moored with her port side facing the shore. Must have resulted from my instinctive habit of drawing any ship profile with the bow to the left, running right to the stern. Thus the landing stage was on the starboard side of the ship, facing the shore, with the outboard boom where the cutters and whalers were moored, and dare-devil cadets sprang from the top-mast into the sea only when we rolled heavily to starboard. I learned from another 'Bothie Boy' that the bullying I described went on nineteen years later practically unchanged. It did result in weeding out one or two boys who were unfitted for the rigours of life at sea in wartime. In answer to his question: - yes, I did enjoy those two years. They were exciting and eventful. Among our Old Boys were Squadron-Leader Nettleton who won the V.C. posthumously for leading a low-level bombing attack on a strategic power station near Augsburg. Also Group Captain 'Sailor' Malan, who was a Battle of Britain fighter ace. What terrifies me today is the revelation that 25% of the students at my old University in South Africa are infected with the H.I.V. virus, and thus most are fated to die within maybe five or six years. We simply never realised how well off we were back in those war years.... Cheers, Tony Hi Tony, You could always send the picture of the S.A.T.S. 'General Botha' to the SMML site ;-) Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Infomation -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: TechnoInfidel@webtv.net (John Collins) Subject: Atlanta Model Expo 2001 Greetings all: Just a reminder. IPMS Northmen and IPMS Atlanta are hosting Atlanta Model Expo 2001, the Region 3 Convention one week from today. Data: Atlanta Model Expo, 2-3 February 2001, Meadowcreek High School, Steve Reynolds Blvd., Norcross, Georgia. Friday hours; 6pm - 10pm. Saturday; 8am - 5pm. Current vendor count is 102 tables. We anticipate 900 models in the show. Atlanta is still hot regardless of the time of year. We extend an invitation to all. I would enjoy meeting any list mates in attendance. Please feel free to contact me off list for further info. Thanks, John Collins IPMS Northmen Atlanta, GA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://www.smml.org.uk Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://www.tac.com.au/~sljenkins/apma.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume