Subject: SMML VOL 1142 Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2001 21:22:58 -0800 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Gunboats 2: Re: USS Mindoro 3: Re: USN Ventilators 4: Re: Gray paint on Canadian Flower Class Corvettes 5: Re: IJN Yukikaze 6: Re: Revell Skipjack et al 7: British M1 Submarine 8: Re: British Warships of the Second World War 9: Re: Corvette Art 10: Re: Mystery cruiser 11: Re: Mystery Cruiser 12: Advanced Shipmodeling 13: Combat Fleets and Planes Books 14: Re: Japanese's destroyer deck colors 15: Re: Fresnel Lens 16: Where does a "rabbit"come from?/and Bonnie info 17: WEST PAC 18: HMAS Melbourne 19: Re: USCG Bear 20: Re: Pedestals 21: Submarine movies 22: Re: Mystery cruiser 23: Re: Skipjack 24: Re: USS MINDORO 25: Re: Veteran's memories 26: Re: fresnel lenses 27: SBDs greenhouse tarps -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: SMML announcement -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: LDS1952@aol.com Subject: Gunboats In the 1920's gunboats, what 3 types of automatic weapons did they carry? Thanks: larry -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: ironship@usit.net (Jon Warneke) Subject: Re: USS Mindoro Hi Andy, >> First, I have no information on this ship at all. So could someone tell me what class, where built, service history, and sadly, where and when broken up. << USS Mindoro, CVE-120, was a Commencement Bay class CVE. Here's a link for some general info on her: http://www.navsource.org/archives/03/120.htm >> Second, Is there a kit of her or her sisters available? Any scale, any medium, but a bigger scale preferred--1/600th and smaller tends to leave me feeling that I have needles stuck in my eyes. << There isn't any kits of a Commencement Bay class over 1/700 scale, and really, no other kit could be used to replicate a Commencement Bay without a LOT of work. There may be a kit in 1/700 scale, but I haven't any knowledge of one. Jon Warneke Commander Series Models, Inc. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: SantMin@aol.com Subject: Re: USN Ventilators >> Red inside the ventilators is as accurate as I could make it. The US Navy's ship models for the period in question all show red. << I wanted Gary to answer that one on his own and of course he is correct. Over the years I have collected info on this period and everything I can find indicates that the insides of the ventilators were painted red. This includes colorized postcards and contemporary paintings plus models built when the ships were still around (I don't see why every artist would make them red if they were not so) . Cheers, Bob Santos -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: GKingzett@aol.com Subject: Re: Gray paint on Canadian Flower Class Corvettes John, Just gas up the old flivver and head on down to your local gray paint store. Do I need to (grin)? Gary -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "J. London" Subject: Re: IJN Yukikaze Regarding deck color it was certainly not wood and unlikely to have been corticene although many cruisers had that deck covering. Most Japanese destroyers had their decks painted hull color, i.e. dark gray, and I suspect the Kagero Class followed that practice. Michael London -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: drwells@hogpb.mt.att.com (David R Wells) Subject: Re: Revell Skipjack et al Tom Dougherty (Ives100@aol.com) wrote: >> Actually, it's not all that close. There are details of the sail structure that Ken Hart wrote an article a few years back about correcting that involved major plastic surgery. << My recollection is that the plastic surgery needed is not that bad, but I'm not going to contradict Ken.... >> Also, the three bladed propeller provided with the kit is all wrong; original speed prop had 5, the silenced propeller (after the "blade rate" problem was discovered) had 7. << No question, the kit's 3-blade is entirely wrong. Now, if one of the photo-etch guys were clever, they'd make up a 1/230 5-blade or 7-blade prop. I'm not betting on it, though. Re: Aurora Golf-Class >> The rest of the hull was not much more than passing. The stern is way, way off. << Agreed. Length and beam turned out about right, but darn near everything else below the waterline was wrong. I had to do extensive plastic surgery on mine. What I did was cut a section of plastic off of the lower part of each side of the hull on the stern. I bent the plastic until the halves joined, (a fair amount of force was required) and sealed up the seam with CA. Of course, after that, I had to build up the area by the central prop. I also narrowed the bow considerably, once again by cutting down the central seam. The plastic was thick enough that I could carve the beginnings of the two sonar domes into the plastic. The upper one had to be built up a little. Since the seam was stressed both fore and aft, I loaded up the hull with epoxy. (I had cut the sail off to stretch it anyway, and that left a nice hole) The hull is pretty solid. The project is now stalled because I haven't got a good enough method to finish stretching the sail/conning tower. Keep in mind that Aurora did this kit in the late '60s, and they had only minimal information on what the Golf-class looked like. David R. Wells "There seems to be something wrong | David R. Wells with our bloody ships today" | AT&T Middletown, NJ Adm. D. Beatty, May 31, 1916 | http://home.att.net/~WellsBrothers/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: Fkbrown90@aol.com Subject: British M1 Submarine My current interest is a 1/48 scale model of a WW1 U.S.Navy subchaser. As part of the literature research for authencity I read a book, "The Splinter Fleet of the Otranto Barrage" by R. Millholland. He tells of an informal visit, in 1918, to a huge British submarine, the M1. Having seen considerable interest in submarines on SMML lately, I thought some one might be interested in Mulholland's remarks. On page 265 he says, and I quote; "I amused myself by making an inspection of the giant British submarine M1. We were moored alongside her in the dockyard. All her officers and crew were ashore except a solitary seaman, left aboard as an anchor watch. The proper Christmas spirit pervaded inside and out as far as this chap was concerned, and as a result I believe I am the only foreigner who ever had the chance to inspect the M1 thoroughly. A twelve-inch gun on a battleship is no small weapon; but when mounted on a submarine, it assumes monumental dimensions. The M1 carried such a gun. She was originally built for bombarding the Dardanelles, but was completed too late for that purpose. According to my guide, the gun was arranged so that the M1 could fire the gun when she was entirely submerged except for the muzzle of its giant gun and the periscope projecting above the surface. After firing, the sub could rise to the surface, reload, and submerge again in less than 3 minutes. The gun was loaded and trained by hydraulic pistons. The M1 also had a false keel of several hundred tons weight which could be detached while submerged. The theory of its use was that, in case the sub sank to the bottom, or got below the depth where its air pressure could blow its tanks, the false keel could be released, suddenly increasing the buoyancy of the sub and enabling it to rise again." I know very little about submarines, or about large weapons, but I can't help but wonder about the effects of the recoil of the 12-inch gun when it was fired while the M1 was submerged. Do any SMML people know any more about this ship? I understand she was unaccountably lost in the English Channel shortly after the Armistice of 1918. Franklyn -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "J. London" Subject: Re: British Warships of the Second World War I have a copy of a book by this title published by Conway Maritime Press in 1971 and written by Alan Ravan and John Roberts. It is large format 10.5 in by 14 in and contains 12 pull-out plans at 1/16th in to the foot covering RODNEY, ROYAL OAK, WARSPITE, RENOWN, REPULSE, AJAX, LONDON, MANCHESTER, SUSSEX, ARIADNE, ONSLOW and LANCE. It is also labelled "First Series" so I suspect the book referred to is an expansion of this and, if so, it should be excellent. Each plan in my book is accompanied by a one page summary of the ship's history and particulars so it is not a multi page tome (only 13 pp). I tried the Indigo site for more info but turned up zilch. Michael London -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "Bob Pearson" Subject: Re: Corvette Art Mike Leonard writes ... >> I urge anybody interested in Flower class corvettes to view Bob's wonderful color profiles -- featuring a variety of camouflage schemes. << Thanks Mike, I would also like to thanks those others who have contacted me about them - Thanks guys, nice to know the work we do is appreciated. I just took a closer look at Arrowhead and I boo-booed in the design of the bridge and the amount of blue carried (and I knew that when I originally did it. . but forgot about it in the intervening weeks). I should have a corrected image online at: http://www.internetmodeler.com/2000/february/galleria/flowers.htm by the time this is posted.. And in other news, I now have a pile of the L'Arsenal 1/400 Flowers for conversion to various others. I was surprised how easy it was to convert the long foc's'le into a short foc's'le. Rather than try and carve away the extra area I scored the resin with a pin mounted in a jig to get the new gunwale hieght and then scraped this line away with the back of a No.11 xacto blade. Repeating the process while holding the edge of the blade against the superstructure got me the depth required in the vertical plane. Once this was removed it was a question of using the dremel knockoff to gouge the remaining excess resin away. After that it is 'just' a new bridge, resiting of the bandstand, removal and replacement of the galley ... AND THEN. . the hard part .. just which one to do ... Regards, Bob Pearson -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "Don Carner" Subject: Re: Mystery cruiser San Francisco, CA-38 was the 2nd highest decorated U.S. warship in WWII. Fought in almost every major engagement and served from pre-Pearl to the scappers in the late 50's. She was the victim of a kamikaze hit on her rear quarters that certainly was no dud. At Okinawa, she survived a direct hit at the last minute as the Japanese pilot pulled up, executed a hammer-head manoeuver directly overhead and hit the ship immediately moored alongside, (that ship's name escapes me at the moment). Have not heard or read of any "dud" strikes on cruisers during this time... Don Carner -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: CA139JOHNF@aol.com Subject: Re: Mystery Cruiser >> Reference books not handy but my choice would be San Francisco (CA38). Kamikaze incident was in April '45 I believe. << >>> John, Unless there are two, this isn't the Mystery Cruiser I had in mind. HINT - She fought at Empress Augusta Bay <<< Well, At Empress Augusta Bay we had Adm. Tip Merrill's TF 39 consisting of Cleveland, Montpelier, Denver and Columbia along with Arleigh Burke's DESRON 23. Battle stars awarded these cruisers were, in the same order, 13, 13, 11, 10. San Francisco was awarded 17. While I am aware that number of battle stars does not in itself describe the actual amount of combat a ship may have seen, I'll stick with San Francisco. As for the dud Kamikazi, I can't find a mention of this in DANFS for the listed cruisers. If there is a serious gap in my knowledge, please I beg of you fill it in before I go off the deep end and start looking for 1/4-28NPT metricoctagonalsocket screws. John F. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: CA139JOHNF@aol.com Subject: Advanced Shipmodeling Anyone know a US Source for this book, Advanced Shipmodeling by Brian King. The only place I found it was Military Book Club. I'm not sure if I want to get it from a place that has Clubs made out of Military Books, for USD$.98 ;>) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "Ned Barnett" Subject: Combat Fleets and Planes Books >> To any who are interested, a few weeks ago there were some posts about the Combat Fleets of the world 1998-1999 at Barnes & Noble in the US on sale for $24.95US. I added some confusion regarding different ISBN numbers. If anybody else wants this book, it is still for sale on the website for $24.95US, reg $150US. The ISBN to look for is 0765554208. This is the identical book (I just got mine in the mail) to ISBN 1557501114 for $150US. Apparently B&N got a remaindered batch in and are selling it for a reduced price. Everything is here and the only thing I can tell that is different is that 'some' of the photos are a little 'off', but most are just fine. The website is http://www.barnesandnoble.com and as far as I know, they ship everywhere. << I got both the Combat Fleets book and the companion Military Aircraft book (by Rene J. Francillon) - and I got them postage-free by having the local B&N order them for me. Since they are hefty books, postage-savings was worth it. Both books are great, and I thank those who tipped us off. Excellent resources - now, if they'd just reprint Janes from WW-II for this price ... Ned -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: Jeffon10@cs.com Subject: Re: Japanese's destroyer deck colors I believe it is generally understood that in peacetime, prior to WW II, they largely covered the decks with linoeleum. (Some sort of tan to brown to redish brown in tone from varios reports.) But as to actual WW II contingences who knows? Also, why can't a country produce a darek gray lineoleum? Jeff F. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "Victor M. Baca" Subject: Re: Fresnel Lens >> The plans and photos of the Stonehorse Lightship in the current issue of Victor Baca's Model Ship Journal have intrigued me. << Hi Ed: If you check Page 2 of the Model Ship Journal issue with the lightship plans, you'll find a detail shot of the mast and light which I use in the editorial column. It's taken from the same set as the photos published in the magazine. If you like, we can check our photo and slide file and see if we have any close-in shots of the lens itself and send you jpegs via e-mail. Good luck with your model, it should be a colorful little thing in 1/192nd. Victor Baca -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: rolie muise Subject: Where does a "rabbit"come from?/and Bonnie info The recent thread on "tiddly" had me thinking about another word ." Rabbit". Here in the Dockyard in Halifax, it means among other things, a free fix of something for a ship, a favour to a dockyard matey or sailor, a personal bit of work or a payment for a bottle of rum. Anyone know where the word originated? Also a while back someone was looking for some info(lines drawing )on the Bonnie. Contact me off list. Rolie in Halifax,home of the Sackville and the Bluenose. Hi Rolie, While I don't know the origin of "rabbit", it was also used at HMA Dockyard Garden Is to denote a "foreign order". This may suggest that it's British in origin? Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: sanders_talmadge_fc1 Subject: WEST PAC Hello SMML'ies. Come see the Princeton CG-59!! My ship is deploying in July and was wondering if there is the remote possibility of meeting some distant SMML people in Pattaya Beach Thailand, Singapore, Esperance Australia or Adelaide Australia?? If so please contact me off list. FC1 (sw) T.E. "Sandy" Sanders Combat Systems Department LPO -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: darsamr@supanet.com Subject: HMAS Melbourne Evening All, I have Heller's Arromanches and would like to build it as the Melbourne. I'm aware that it would involve alot of work, but I enjoy a challenge (lets face it,to build a good version of the Arromanches would take a fair amount of work!!). I need pics & info of the Melbourne(late fit, with listings of aircraft embarked), does anybody know of any online refs. Thanks in advance guys, Dave. Hi Dave, A good starting point is the following book by Ross Gillett: HMAS Melbourne - 25 years I can highly recommend this book, it has plenty of pictures to help you out. As for websites - try some of the following Australan naval sites: RAN Homepage: http://www.navy.gov.au/ AWM: http://www.awm.gov.au/ Australian Maritime Museum: http://www.anmm.gov.au/ There are also some site links on the SMML homepage that may help as well. Regards, Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: "Melea/Mike Maynard" Subject: Re: USCG Bear Reply to GYRINE Mark Krumrey remarks concerning accurate helos on CG ship models: The 270' class cutters, like the rest of the fleet, need to have their Flight Deck "certified"; that is, during the vessel's shakedown a helicopter must be landed on the helo deck and the evolution evaluated. The quality of the deck coating(or deck finish)is examined and tie-down rings, pad eyes, tie-down straps and associated equipment must be inventoried and verified. The LSO, helo ops crew and fire fighting/rescue team response is evaluated as well. Part of the certification involves re-fueling and a visual inspection of the flight deck for any cracks or fissures that might result from the helo's weight. Keep in mind that cutters like the "BEAR" are "weight critical" (very top heavy) and were designed around a number of factors and mission requirements. Hence a 270' cutter was only rated for an aircraft gross weight of about 10,000 lbs. The Aerospatiale Dolphin(HH-65A) weighs in at 8928 lbs, while the Sikorsky Jayhawk(HH-60J)weighs in at 21,246 lbs loaded. For this reason it is weight that dictates the type of Helo a cutter embarks, as well as range. I know of no example in which a cutter ever embarked a Jayhawk. If you're looking for ABSOLUTE accuracy in a ship model, the 270 model should only depict a Dolphin(code name "Tupperwolf" named for it's plastic construction and almost invisible to radar) or no helo at all. It's being picky I know but judging from the inquiries about the gun on this ship or the paint on that ship it's nice to get it right. So "Gunny" is a little mis-informed on transient aircraft but that's OK, the Marines always stood tall with us in a bar room blitz at GITMO with our drunken Navy friends. And in point of fact the Marines always invited us Hooligans to their club which was the Best at GITMO. Semper FI Just in: The 270' CGC CAMPBELL had a helo mishap Jan 31 when a "Tupperwolf" tipped over on it's flight deck when the ship was hit by heavy seas. The flight deck was heavily damaged by the rotors and 3 tie-down crewman had to jump overboard. There were 7 men injured, but no fatalities. MJMaynard US Coast Guard(ret) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: Marc Flake Subject: Re: Pedestals I looked at the Model Expo brass pedestals. They all have slots for keels. Since I'm doing subs, all I have are bilge keels that run along the sides of the hull. To those of you who use these slotted pedestals, how do you mount your ships on them? I finally got to the Modelers Boatyard page on pedestals, thanks to the link provided in yesterday's SMML. I like the pin types. The other examples are slotted. As for wasting time at hardware stores that could have been used for modeling -- HA! As Gary noted, wandering about a hardware store can be enlightening. For instance, I found out there is now an adjustable collet for Dremel tools! No more changing collets from drill bits to buffers. This collet does it all. It even accepts the real tiny drills that the smallest standard collet couldn't hold. I also found some neat clamps with adjustable pads on the tips. Put them to work right away when I got home to hold a couple of fuselage halves together. Time in a hardware store is never wasted. Marc -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: Marc Flake Subject: Submarine movies It looks like U-571 has given birth to a couple more submarine movies. My friend in the biz sent me the following announcements: 1)"BELOW" CASTINGS Olivia Williams (Rushmore) and maybe David Boreanaz (Angel) or Matthew Davis (Tigerland) will star in David Twohy's BELOW, a supernatural thriller set on a submarine during World War II. BELOW, which was previously entitled PROTEUS, was written by Darren Aronofsky (Pi). 2)SARSGAARD MAY JOIN 'K-19' VARIETY reports Peter Sarsgaard (Boys Don't Cry) is in final negotiations to join Harrison Ford and Liam Neeson in the Cold War submarine thriller K-19. Just in case you're interested. Marc -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: "Don Carner" Subject: Re: Mystery cruiser I just had a brain phart... The ship I refered to in my previous posting regarding CA-38 at Okinawa's kamakaze attack(s) was not "moored" but was the Nevada. The Japanese pilot had a bead on San Francisco but at the last minute saw the phatter image of USS Nevada. He zoomed vertical and kicked the rudder pedals over, performing a hammerhead right onto Nevada's aft turret exploding and then bouncing into the water alongside. Sorry for the confusion. Also, I assumed that kamakaze attacks were introduced at Okinawa...my mistake. Having been through all that and more, my Dad set me straight! Don Carner -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: Ives100@aol.com Subject: Re: Skipjack >> Now about the Skipjack she built in 1958-9? What ever happened to the Skipjack? Any one know? << Skipjack (SSN-585) was built at Electric Boat and launched on May 26, 1958. She was lead ship of a six ship class (all with "S" names) that included the ill-fated Scorpion.She was commissoned on April 15, 1959 and decommissioned on April 19, 1990. She was disposed of at Puget Sound Naval Shipyard from Oct 17, 1095 to Mar 17, 1996. I have an old photo of her tied up next to the SSN Seawolf and several Polaris boats at Puget Sound awaiting breakup. These were fast but very noisy boats. The follow-on Thresher/Permit class introduced machinery rafting to silence the subs as well as deeper diving hulls (full use of HY-80 steel). The Skipjacks were the only US Nuclear subs built to the true Albacore "body of revolution" design. Tom Dougherty -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24) From: John Snyder Subject: Re: USS MINDORO USS MINDORO (CVE-120) was a COMMENCEMENT BAY-class escort carrier. She was launched 27 June 1945, commissioned 4 December 1945, and spent most of the next 10 years with the Atlantic Fleet in training capacity. She decommissioned 4 August 1955, was reclassified AKV-20 on 7 May 1959 and her name was stricken from the Navy list. She was scrapped at Hong Kong in 1960. John Snyder Snyder & Short Enterprises White Ensign Models -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 25) From: isublett@home.com Subject: Re: Veteran's memories As the matter of vetrans' memories keeps coming up, I am reminded of a book called "The Great War and Modern Memory" which ought to be read by anyone who has more than a passing interest in modern history. I don't know if it has been translated for our members who are not from English-speaking countries, but the ideas presented translate to any language and to any country that has ever been at war. I know when I read it years ago, it changed my own way of looking at documents - which, at the time, was my business. Pirie Sublett -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 26) From: isublett@home.com Subject: Re: fresnel lenses Anybody who makes fresnel lenses in any of the scales we usually talk about deserves a standing round of applause (and, maybe, an embroidered straight jacket), and they certainly get the former from me. Pirie Sublett -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 27) From: "hugh1lottie2" Subject: SBDs greenhouse tarps >> As an aside, the photo shows a number of SBDs with their "greenhouse" canopies covered with tarps. I recall one author claiming this was to protect the glass. My guess is that in those early post-Pearl Harbor days the idea was to cut down on the sun's reflections, which might otherwise give a Jap scout an early indication that the ship was a carrier. Any other ideas? << Doug, It's obvious that you weren't in Dallas at the IPMS Nationals in July last year. I imagine that those SBD "greenhouses" in the South Pacific were about as comfortable as a car with the windows rolled up setting in the Dallas [105 degrees] sun. This would probably be one of the many reasons to cover the greenhouse. Hugh -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Ken Goldman" Subject: SMML announcement CHECK OUT THE NEW FREE PREVIEW OF AIRANDSEAMODELS.COM http://airandseamodels.com IN THE CURRENT ISSUE: SPECIAL FEATURE: - THE AIRCRAFT AND SHIP MODELS OF THE 2000 JMC SHOW HISTORY: - THE WAR IN THE MEDITERRANEAN - PART IX - PHOTO HISTORY (AIR) - RECON PHOTOS IN THE MED THEATER (PART IV) - PHOTO HISTORY (SHIP) - THE SALERNO LANDINGS - TASK FORCES - OPERATION ANKLET WALK-AROUNDS: - EASTERN FM-2 "WILDCAT" - JMSDF YUUGIRI (ASAGIRI-CLASS DDG) MODEL-BUILDING: - MULTI-SCALE FEATURE: KAWANISHI N1K2-J "GEORGE" (1/48 and 1/72) - 1/48 SPITFIRE MK.IXc/trop. - 1/48 NIEUPORT TRIPLANE CONVERSION - 1/72 F9F-2 PANTHER - AMAZING 1/200 SCALE IJN MYOKO - 1/700 HMS YORK - 1/700 IJN KATORI - 1/700 IJN KAKO - MODEL GALLERY: 1/48 MESSERSCHMITT BF 109E-3 * 1/48 NAF N3N-3 * 1/72 BUECHER BU-131 * 1/144 F-14 DIORAMA * 1/350 DKM BISMARCK * 1/35 PIBBER DIORAMA * 1/96 SEEADLER * 1/96 GAINESMILL - VIRTUAL REALITY MODELS: 1/48 D.H. MOSQUITO FB.VI * 1/700 ARLEIGH BURKE-CLASS DDG - ON THE MARKET: DOZENS OF PRODUCT REVIEWS, KITS, DETAIL SETS, DECALS, AFTERMARKET ITEMS, BOOKS ETC. - NO ONE GIVES YOU AS MANY AS WE DO - NEWS FROM THE INDUSTRY OTHER: - BOOK REVIEWS - VIRTUAL PLACES: COMBAT SQUADRON REVIEW - LETTERS - BULLETIN BOARD - GAMES: - MYSTERY PHOTO - AIRCRAFT (you can win Tamiya's new Spitfire Mk.Vb and Bf 109E4/7 kits in 1/72 scale) - MYSTERY PHOTO - SHIP (you can win Tamiya's new USS Indianapolis kit in 1/700 scale.) - TRIVIA QUIZ (you can win a set of GMM naval decals in 1/192 scale) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://www.smml.org.uk Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://www.tac.com.au/~sljenkins/apma.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume