Subject: SMML VOL 1156 Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 04:03:28 -0800 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: American DDs at Normandy 2: FOHN Rocket System 3: How far is the horizon? 4: Shape of the earth and what is a mile threads 5: ESSEX 6: Project Pride 7: Re: USS Indianapolis 8: WOGS 9: Re: Movie "Crash Dive" 10: Paint Clash 11: ICM 1/350 Essex suggestions 12: Malta Convoys 13: wogs 14: RN Colours 15: Re: American DDs at Normandy -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Infomation 1: BC/Washington SMML Con -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: mumfordlibrarian@netscape.net Subject: Re: American DDs at Normandy Do to the treat of land-based air from the Germans, there were no on-station, or orbiting fleet operations anywhere near the coast. The English Channel and its approaches were heavily mined and were policed at night by small combatants, like trawlers and minesweepers or minelayers. This was a constant point and counter point battle through out the war. The DDs that would be at sea would be on escort duty, or an occasional offensive sweep but that was more often done by MTB or MGB. When the actual invasion fleet sailed it had to have significant escort of anti-E Boat and antiaircraft protections, all were preceded by a flotilla of minesweepers to open the lanes to the Invasion Beaches. While awaiting invasion duties most DD flotillas would be based outside of normal German Bomber range, possibly in Northern Ireland if not on convoy duty. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: john.baumann@talk21.com Subject: FOHN Rocket System By chance I came across a source covering this subject at Barbarossa Books titled "German Secret Weapons of the Second World War by Ian Hogg (1999) on Greenhill Books. Priced at £19.95. ISBN 1 85367 325 0. Contact: Mr Russell Hadler, 14B Maldon Road, Tiptree, Essex, CO5 0LL, UK. Telephone: 01621-810810 Fax: 01621-810888. Regards, John -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Norman C. Samish" Subject: How far is the horizon? >> Beyond about 10 or 15 miles on the Kansas wheatlands the Earth curves away out of sight over the horizon, just like the surface of the sea. << Tony, Your history of measurements was very interesting, thanks. I have a nit to pick, however. According to my calculations, if the earth is a smooth sphere 4,000 miles in radius and I am 6 feet tall, then the horizon should be a mere 3 miles away. To be 10 miles away, I would have to be 72 feet above the earth. If the horizon was 15 miles away, I would have to be 149 feet above the earth. I can imagine being on a 149-foot hill in Kansas, but being on a 149-foot wave on the sea would be a bit too thrilling for me. Norman Samish -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Vern Wilson" Subject: Shape of the earth and what is a mile threads I've been reading with interest the topic(s) discussing nautical miles v.s. statute miles, and the basic shape of the planet in which we inhabit. I've learned more here in a week than in a semester of science in High School. One of the things from my school days that I do recall stated is that the earth's curve has a rise of 8" per mile. Obviously this must be an averaged fiqure taking in all sorts of terrain into account. One way to illustrate this is to picture it as a longbow thats a mile long. The distance between the bow (strung of course) and the bow string measured at the middle of the bow would be 8". I have no way to prove if this figure is correct but thats what was explained to the class. If anything this is just food (or is it fodder?) for thought. I would like to hear if anyone else remembered this particular statistic. Regards, Vern Wilson -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "O'Connor" Subject: ESSEX Mr. Rogers: One can never get too much of an ESSEX thread. My only regret is that we never built enough of the damn things. And things of beauty they were. Much more stately, IMHO, than any other carrier in history. So, Mr Tamiya, or Mr. IMC, or whomever- bring them on!!!! Bob O'Connor -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Mike Leonard" Subject: Project Pride >> The Canadian Navy is developing new training in customs and traditions - Project Pride. The website contains photos and some drawings of Canada's WW2 ships. Website is under construction, but very interesting! Even has some Fl*wer Class pics! << So far it includes a lot of great photos and plans, including a few extremely nice views of "Town" class destroyers (ex-USN four pipers) pierside and in drydock. Mike -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "Keith Bender" Subject: Re: USS Indianapolis Hi SMMLies, The Indi. carried two SC-1 Seahawks at the time of her loss. KTB -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Gord and Doreen Smith Subject: WOGS John Frohock wins the bingo prize! During the construction of the Suez Canal it was common to provide food for the workers. The difficulty arose when many more "workers" showed up for the free food than seemed to be on the roll. Consequently the Company issued shirts (T-shirts maybe?) that clearly identified the employees as "WORKERS ON GOVERNMENT SERVICE" -- WOGS. Yes, the term was used in India (along with many others depending on where you were in India) to describe those locals who had gone over completely in trying to emulate the Westerners. It did decline into a term of disrepute. T'is always thus in Colonial History. It's been fun! Gord -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "Doug Wilde" Subject: Re: Movie "Crash Dive" Ed, Crash Dive is a Technicolor movie, so the colors are about as true as possible with film. I too, was taken with the four-stacker in the background. Great shots of the sub in surface action...firing deck gun...disposition of gun crew. Not being a sub guy I wonder what type of sub they used? I'm a PT kinda guy and was pulling for Tyrone's first command (BG). Doug Wilde PS This is the kind of movie entry that should be kept in a database somewhere for future reference. The Hood folks have implemented a pretty good version of this for their particular vessel. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: tom dean Subject: Paint Clash Hi Gang: Just thought I would share this with you, in case someone tries it and ruins hours of work. About a week ago, I purchased some green & yellow Polly Scale Acryl to mix together to paint the helo deck on my HALIFAX model. This is a new paint to me, but I had seen it mentioned on the list and thought that I would give it try. I made a batch, painted it on, went on well but wasn't the colour I wanted when it dried. Tried again with a slightly different mix, same results. Realized that I was going to come up with the proper mix with these two paints. On my way home tonight, I purchased a green & yellow (both flat) Tamiya paints, a brand I am more use to working with. Mixed a batch that looked good. Painted the deck, over the Polly Scale. Paint went on with great difficulty, sticking and brush strokes that I could not get out. Let it dry for an hour and it dried glossy! Let dry for longer period of time. Still felt weird. Took a razor chisel blade a was able to peel a perfect strip off. It had reacted with the other brand of paint somehow. Like I say it was dry for a week. Fortunately it was for the most part a big flat surface and I was able to scrape down to the bare plastic. Just tried a small area with the new mix of Tamiya. Went on great, dried quickly, and was Flat! Never had two acryls react like that before. I haven't even had that reaction between well dried enamel and acryl combos. Just a word of warning Tom Dean Hamilton, Ontario Canada -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Mike C" Subject: ICM 1/350 Essex suggestions Hi group, At the risk of ticking off a lot of people on this list, I'll suggest that ICM would be better served if they moved the ESSEX behind the TAKAO kits and pushed the HOOD back until later. First off, they would sell a heck of a lot more kits, which would allow them the financial freedom to offer more esoteric, one-of-a-kind subjects. Second, there are two resin versions of the HOOD already in release (I'll let you argue over the relative merits of each), so it also may be too soon for another HOOD. Third, a later release of the HOOD would benefit from the lessons learned in tooling larger kits and would also be exposed to a larger customer base already familiar with ICM naval subjects. I also think ICM is making a major mistake by releasing near-sister ships so closely together. Accurate Miniatures has done the same thing with their aircraft kits and they are suffering for it- even with kits as exceptional as theirs are. We all have subjects or variants that we want to see produced, but it will do none of us any good if companies don't survive long enough to get to our particulate favorite. Besides, doing one ship of a class provides more fodder for the aftermarket companies. Of course, there have been rumors of a shakeup at ICM- so the whole discussion may be pointless by now- but this is something to consider. Have fun, Mike Czibovic -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: brian selzler Subject: Malta Convoys Has anyone out there read the following books "Malta Convoys" by David A. Thomas and "Malta Convoys 1940-1943" by Richard Woodman and can offer an opinion as to which would be the better purchase. I'm particularly looking for lots of detail on the exact makeup of the convoys run in from Gib and Alex meaning all the names of the merchant ships as well as warships. Hopefully, there would also be data on displacements, length, breadth, draft, etc. of the merchants. Brian -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Fred Kennamer Subject: wogs The exact origin escapes me, but I think the term is "Worthy Oriental Gentleman", originated by a British politician in the nineteenth century and then becoming a general slur for those afflicted with the tragic curse of a non-anglo/caucasian origin. Anyone able to fill in the blanks? Fred -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "M & R Brown" Subject: RN Colours Johnny Chen was after RN colours. Can't help with acrylic mixes. Re RN Grey, Light Admiralty Grey ceased about 1969, since then it has been Light Weatherwork Grey (BS381C 676), there is a mix for Humbrol for this colour. Deck colours were Dark Admiralty Grey (Humbrol #5) until the 1990s. Now they use the same as the US Navy. Per Randy Short it is FS36076 which I think is ModelMaster's Engine Grey. Michael Brown -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: Craig R Bennett Subject: Re: American DDs at Normandy Hello Dave In answering your question concerning the navy destroyers used in the D-Day landings. This is what I have found. Most of the ships were stationed in Southern England. US Forces came out of Dartmouth, Torquay, Poole, Weymouth,and Southampton with Canadian and British - Plymouth, Torquay, Portsmouth, Gravesend, Sheerness, and other ports in the Thames River Estuary or north of it. Now a powerful fire support group came out of Belfast Ireland. The destroyers were Frankford DD-497, Carmick DD-493, Doyle DD-494, McCook DD-496, Baldwin DD-624, Harding DD-625, Satterlee DD-626, Thompson DD-627, Bulter DD-636, Hobson DD-464, Gherardi DD-637, Forrest DD-461, Herndon DD-638, Fitch DD-462, Shubrick DD-639, Corry DD-463, Barton DD-722, Jeffers DD-621, Walke DD-723, Nelson DD-623, Laffey DD-724, Murphy DD-603, O'Brien DD-725, Glennon DD620, Meredith DD-726, Plunkett DD-431, Ellyson DD-454, Somers DD-381, Hambleton DD-455, Davis DD-395, Rodman DD-456, Jourett DD-396, and with this is DE's Amesbury DE-66, Borum DE-790, Maloy DE-791, Bates DE-68, Rich DE-695, Blessman DE-69. You should try to get the book US Destroyer Operations in World War 2. thru the public library loan system.It's got maps and photos. I hope this helps. Craig -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Infomation -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Btbldr" Subject: BC/Washington SMML Con Hi folks The mini SMML Con for the North West is green for go and is scheduled for 14:00 PST Sunday March 4th at the Granville Island Model Ship Museum. They have a fifteen foot HOOD, seven HUNDRED pounds and CAST in bronze, as well as a model train museum and more. There is an awesome website at http://www.modelshipsmuseum.ca/ships/index.html, containing museum walkabouts, videos etc. SMML lurkers are most welcome - we will not publish initials, no scratch that, no names, no forget that, no photographs - just kidding, please be there or be square, including all you folks on the Western Isles. The only requirement for attendance is yourself. Costs - Museum entry fee CDN$6 or CDN$4.50 for Seniors (please folks they are giving us use of the museum for free - no 2 for 1 specials please) Directions, hours - please check out the website. Please confirm attendance by way of an email. A quorum is two people - so we go ahead with just one other confirmation. See ya there!!!! regards Malcolm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://www.smml.org.uk Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://www.tac.com.au/~sljenkins/apma.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume