Subject: SMML VOL 1157 Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 01:45:14 -0800 shipmodels@tac.com.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Measuring by Chains 2: Crown in flight deck? 3: Re: Essex suggestions 4: Heavy Cruisers in action Pt. 1 5: The late great Kirovs 6: Kriegsmarine Book- 2 thumbs up 7: Re: Movie "Crash Dive" 8: Re: WOGS/Misc 9: Wood for display stand 10: Re: Essex 11: Curvature of the eath 12: HALIFAX??? 13: Modern Usn & JMSDF Color 14: U-Boat colors, Mr.Tamiya 15: How far is the horizon, etc 16: Black hulls answered 17: Weathering Steel decks at 1/700 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Infomation 1: Congrats to "Modeller of the Year" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "nickbalmer" Subject: Measuring by Chains Hello All, Measurement by chain has been done until surprisingly recently. In about 1976 I trained as a surveyor at college, and had to do Chaining with a Chain. All our maps were becoming metric, but for the purpose of land purchase I had to covert metres back to Chains, Rods Poles and Perches. Not easy in the days before calculators. 66 feet is more normally recognised as 22 Yards, the length of a cricket pitch. Those of you who eat Vegimite will understand this. But I guess this is tough for you poor guys in the New World. 10 Chains = 1 Furlong. (220 yards.) 8 Furlongs = 1 Mile. Which is why 5280 feet = 1 mile. A Rod is six feet, which is 2 yards. So ten rods = 1 chain. What I want to know is how did the ancients know that a chain would be just the right length to bowl a cricketball? Sorry, back to ships. Regards Nick Balmer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Doug Wilde" Subject: Crown in flight deck? Last night I started a CAD drawing of USS Sable (IX-81). This is Bureau of Ships drawing H363-R, general arrangement of flight deck and inboard profile. At the aft end of the flight deck the draftsman had written the dimension from baseline (bottom of keel) to the top of the flight deck as 40'8". Yet at the middle of the ship, pretty much at the location of the sidewheel, another dimension to the top of the flight deck is written as 40'9". So the question becomes: did the Navy build in a slight crown into flight decks in 1942? Or were they dead flat? No, it is not some sort of misprint(ing) and the draftsman has very nice, legible, consistent printing style. And picking out the difference of 1" in a first generation copy of a 1/16"-1' drawing is a bit difficult. I will note that he did mislabel one dimension, marking it 13'6" when it actually was 12'6". And for those paying attention, at 40'8" from keel to flight deck put that deck only 26' above the water while in operation. Must have been VERY thrilling to all those pilots getting CQ! Doug Wilde -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "D.Przezdziecki" Subject: Re: Essex suggestions Hi Mike, "Kniaz Suvorov" an esotheric subject?? Surely you jest Sir?? ;-) You are right thou about ICM policy of releasing almost identical kits in such a short time,I wonder who is their market researcher. Customers nowadays are much too sophisticated to fall for such a trick in large numbers. Any of the hulls can be converted into any ship of the class with conversion kits costing about quater of the price of the model.. I anticipate the same problems with their "Takao" and "Chokai", one will sell all right,the other will flop. Will people ever learn?? Regards D.P -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Marc Flake Subject: Heavy Cruisers in action Pt. 1 I got this book last night and have been flipping through it at every opportunity. The book briefly discusses the US armored cruisers of the pre-dreadnought era then gives an overview of heavy crusier operations during World War II -- focusing on CAs of the Pensacola through New Orleans classes. This is accompanied with a few pictures of eight ACRs. Then each class from Pensacola through New Orleans is detailed as in the other "In action" books. In fact this is pretty much a standard "In Action" book with lots of pictures and line drawings of detials like eight-inch gun turrets, a crane a catapult and all five aircaft carried on this type. There's even a set of detail drawings of the smaller weapons shipped on board from the .50 caliber machine gun to the 3-inch gun. The front cover painting is of the San Francisco fighting during the Third Battle of Savo Island, the back cover has USS Chester in Ms 32/9D in the north Pacific and the Indianapolis in Ms 22. Inside color profiles are of Pensacola in Ms 32/14D (with a smaller version showing the other side), the Northampston in Ms 1+5,the Augusta in MS 17 (an interesting angular camouflage that is new to me), the Astoria in Ms 11, the Minneapolis in a scheme designed to make her look like a Livermore-class destroyer, and the starboard side of Vincennes in MS 12. This is Part 1, so I expect Part 2 to cover the Wichita and the Baltimores. Marc -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "pwesty" Subject: The late great Kirovs Hi I was wondering if any body knows if anyone has ever made a model of the what ever their names are now of the the soviet Kirovs guided-missile battle cruisers of the cold war days? Thanks -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: GrafSpee34@aol.com Subject: Kriegsmarine Book- 2 thumbs up Here is a book I just aquired, and something to balance out my recent thumbs-down review of the 1:50 Schnellboot Plans: I highly recommend: "Der Zerstorer Friedrich Ihn: Bilder und Dokumente" by Dr. Norbert Klapdor. Mittler Verlag 1996, 196 pages, hardcover lots of photos. German language. This is an excellent seamless documentary about a Kriegsmarine Destroyer 1935-1945. This type of ship-specific book is an ideal reference for model builders. Sadly it is also a rarity due to the difficult research necessary to zero-in and fully document the career of a single ship, especially one which did not gain notoriety. The author must track down fine details, and there is always smaller pool of materials to work with compared to a more general book on a class of ships. The photographs in this book are all interesting, most previously unpublished. Many of them show details of the ship very useful for model building. In particular there is a superb full page photo looking down onto the bridge and bridge wings from the foremast. Also of great use is a fold-out set of OKM official dockyard plans of Z-14. The text is a precise factual account based primarily on the ship's logbooks. The author added detail and clarification based on his interviews with crewmen and archival materials. He also includes technical details of the ships powerplant, weapons, radar, etc. The reader (German-speaking or not) gets a fascinating crewman's eye view of a typical German Destroyer in WW2. Dr. Klapdor went to great lengths to uncover accurate information and sharp photos of Zerstorer Friedrich Ihn, and assemble them into a comprehensive, coherent, meaningful documentary without page-filling fluff or repetition. I give this exemplary book two thumbs up. Dave Krakow -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: PT Dockyard Subject: Re: Movie "Crash Dive" The true star of Crash Dive is USS Marlin, along with a few R-boats that are shown leaving the dock. The footage of the Marlin is the best I have seen, and since I am interested in the operations (or non-operations) of US subs against the Germans, I found it HIGHLY entertaining. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: CA139JOHNF@aol.com Subject: Re: WOGS/Misc >> John Frohock wins the bingo prize! << (and who is mightly relieved I may say) I suppose that the 'prize' is a self guided tour of the USS Salem (grin). On another subject, today we welcomed aboard the Salem the former crewmembers from the USS Newport News (CA 148) and USS Boston (CA69/CAG1/SSN703). Both organizations are going to install exhibits which include several exquisite large scale models of their ships. They join the USS Saint Paul which has been aboard for sevral years. The centerpiece of the "Fighting Saint's" exhibit is a fourteen foot, 1/48 scale waterline model built totally from brass. I am restoring it and it is a task I will be glad to finish. It won't fit on my work bench!! Oh, to be working on my Flowers (audible sigh). John Frohock USNSM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "Mike Streckert" Subject: Wood for display stand We had the continuing thread on the finials for awhile but I never saw any mention of wood types for the display stands. I know this is probably a matter of personal preference but I was curious what other folks use. I visited a specialty wood shop today and they had to have at least 80 species of wood in various sizes. I am currently working on an Iowa class BB and thought about getting a piece of teak for the display base. After 30 minutes of browsing, I left without making a purchase. Any recommendations for type of wood? Thanks, Mike -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Chris Rogers Subject: Re: Essex OK Bob yes I would agree you didnt build enough of them but I would have thought you would have at least learnt something of the brits and put an amour deck on them thats all coz you lost a few of them in that era of conflict either by suicide or torpedo no worries Bob like I say cant wait to see it but until, will continue to scratch how about enterprise at 1-48th or connie at 1-72 both being built here in Australia at the moment along with HMAS Melbourne HMAS Sydney and H.M.S. Invincible all at 1-72 regards Chris Oz -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "George Hackett" Subject: Curvature of the eath Hi SMMLies, An interesting item concerning the curvature of the earth: In the mid-1940s tests were done to detect the distance at which a submarine's periscope could be detected. A mast 32 feet high with radar on it could read up to 150 miles. After that point the reading disappeared due to the curvature of the earth. Regards, George (son of an amphibious man) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "Bill Daisley" Subject: HALIFAX??? >> Just thought I would share this with you, in case someone tries it and ruins hours of work. About a week ago, I purchased some green & yellow Polly Scale Acryl to mix together to paint the helo deck on my HALIFAX model. This is a new paint to me, but I had seen it mentioned on the list and thought that I would give it try. I made a batch, painted it on, went on well but wasn't the colour I wanted when it dried. Tried again with a slightly different mix, same results. Realized that I was going to come up with the proper mix with these two paints. On my way home tonight, I purchased a green & yellow (both flat) Tamiya paints, a brand I am more use to working with. Mixed a batch that looked good. Painted the deck, over the Polly Scale. Paint went on with great difficulty, sticking and brush strokes that I could not get out. Let it dry for an hour and it dried glossy! Let dry for longer period of time. Still felt weird. Took a razor chisel blade a was able to peel a perfect strip off. It had reacted with the other brand of paint somehow. Like I say it was dry for a week. Fortunately it was for the most part a big flat surface and I was able to scrape down to the bare plastic. Just tried a small area with the new mix of Tamiya. Went on great, dried quickly, and was Flat! Never had two acryls react like that before. I haven't even had that reaction between well dried enamel and acryl combos. Just a word of warning << thanks for the heads up on acrylics.... now back to the important bit. You're working on the flight deck of the HAlIFAX ? What kit, what scale, details are required... cheers Bill TGH alone in the basement @ BAD Productions Est. F'ton 1994 & MAD R&D Est. Sarnia 1998 Downsized for the New Millennium -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Ulan Phayakavej Subject: Modern Usn & JMSDF Color Hi! everyone Will someone let me know hull and deck colors code of modern USN & JMSDF Ships (CG, DDG, FFG, LHA, CVN etc.) I buy Pit-Road kits and they did not show Gunze Mr.Color codes or FS codes for hull and deck (there are only MR.Color and Tamiya color selling in my country!!) Or tell me a web for search them Thanks very much for help -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: Randy Short Subject: U-Boat colors, Mr.Tamiya Hi guys. Our Snyder and Short Kriegsmarine set1 has your U-Boat colors, both topside and anti-fouling. You need to read photos to determine which grays to use topside. As to Tamiya, One of my good friends has talked to them in Japan extensively. He was told not to ask for ships. Mr. Tamiya likes tanks. He has been told several times that Tamiya does not want suggestions for new ship models. And that they really couldn't care less what the American market wants, as Japan is their market. And people wonder why their economy is in the tank? Also, their ship carver retired some years ago. Randy Short @ Snyder and Short Enterprises -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "Tony Ireland" Subject: How far is the horizon, etc Hi Norman, >> Your history of measurements was very interesting, thanks. I have a nit to pick, however. According to my calculations, if the earth is a smooth sphere 4,000 miles in radius and I am 6 feet tall, then the horizon should be a mere 3 miles away. To be 10 miles away, I would have to be 72 feet above the earth. If the horizon was 15 miles away, I would have to be 149 feet above the earth. I can imagine being on a 149-foot hill in Kansas, but being on a 149-foot wave on the sea would be a bit too thrilling for me. << Your figures are quite correct. I was giving a conservative estimate off the top of my head, about a State I've never actually visited, and allowing for distant tall buildings like grain elevators to vanish over the horizon. Mea culpa... But, thinking back 57 years, my impression is that - while on watch on the bridge of a cruiser or battleship - or even a Corvette, we could easily identify the sort of vessel we sighted at ranges of 10 to 15 miles. We were, of course, perhaps 25 or 30 feet above the sea, and the other ship's masts and funnel(s) and possibly smoke all stuck up above the horizon, naturally. I've always thought that the greatest hero in the history of navigation was Gerardus Mercator (1519 - 1594). It was a breathtaking leap to draw all meridians of longitude as vertical, north-south parallels to enable sailors to draw a ship's course that intersected them. Even despite the curious fact that such so-called rhumb lines were not the actual shortest distance between ports unless they both were on the same longitude. Hence we drew a series of such course lines that approximated to the exact Great Circle, e.g.if crossing the North Atlantic. Of course, his maps distorted the shape and area of lands lying in high latitudes, e.g. Greenland, but that didn't bother seamen as long as they made an accurate landfall. While recently dipping into Captain Joshua Slocum's immortal 'Sailing Alone Around the World' I was fascinated by his train trip from Durban up to Pretoria in 1897 to visit the famous Transvaal President - Paul Kruger. 'Oom Paul' grew pretty angry, and ended the meeting, when Slocum insisted that he was indeed hoping to be the first person to sail alone AROUND the world. "Across the world!" insisted Kruger, to vigorous nods by some 'Dopper' ministers of the Dutch Reformed Church, who pointed out that Slocum's Mercator charts were flat. I once drove through the little town or 'dorp' of Nylstroom in the north of the former Transvaal Province (now 'Gauteng') and learnt that the earliest Afrikaner Voortrekkers who settled there believed that its north-flowing stream was the headwaters of the River Nile. Hence the name of their village. But, boy! Could they shoot straight! Cheers, Tony -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "bobsmail" Subject: Black hulls answered After spending several hours at the RAN open day at Garden Island Sydney I (at last) got my answer to the Aussie FFG's and HMAS Brisbane having all black lower hulls. Apparently they are painted with the usual red anti fouling paint but this is overpainted with black paint to produce a "better, neater" look. Same answer from several junior officers from different ships and the Brisbane's "buffer" so I don't think they were having me on. This is probably of no interest to most, if not all, but it sure as hell bugged me for months. Bob Mac -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: "Ramires, Filipe C" Subject: Weathering Steel decks at 1/700 Hello SMMLies Back into service after the wonderful FAA Festival. I think this question was already heavily discussed here but now it's my turn. I have a few models of Tamiya (Japanese of course) that have steel decks but they don't have weathering or anti-skid patterns. Now the question is if anyone have an suggestion or opinion about tips to do a weathered steel deck? Thanks in advance Filipe C. Ramires Colchester, UK -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Infomation -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Shane & Lorna Subjects: Congrats to "Modeller of the Year" Hi all, We've just recieved the latest IPMS(Australia) Newsletter. Upon reading it, we discovered that a certain SMMLie has been keeping his light under a bushell. Now, since we're fairly certain that it's hasn't been mentioned, it's only fair that we tell you about his success ;-). Last year, Tony Mollica scored a handful of 2nd & 3rd places in the their End of Year competitions covering a range of genres, including a third place for his HMAS Sydney (I assume it's the 1/700 FFG by Skywave?). However, he also went on to win the Modeller of the Year Award as well. So stand up & take the applause Tony. Congrats & a hearty well done. Oh, btw when are we going to see the HMAS Sydney?? ;-) Regards, Shane & Lorna -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://www.smml.org.uk Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://www.tac.com.au/~sljenkins/apma.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume